On assigning responsibility to an affair

[DKT3]

@JimmyNorth I believe its flawed logic to think there is always something wrong or missing in a relationship,  that it's the only reason why people cheat. Many people are not wired for monogamy,  others dont value sex and veiw it as just something to do.  Others simply don't give AF.

I disagree that men cause women to cheat, which is the foundation of your posts. Some take comfort in this ideology because it means that as a man you can control a womans behavior and fidelity by how you treat her. That's demeaning towards women and frankly not logical.  If you were saying that men only cheat because his woman is doing something wrong,  the posters here would run you off with pitchforks and torches. 

[JimmyNorth]

18 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

@JimmyNorth I believe its flawed logic to think there is always something wrong or missing in a relationship,  that it's the only reason why people cheat. Many people are not wired for monogamy,  others dont value sex and veiw it as just something to do.  Others simply don't give AF.

I disagree that men cause women to cheat, which is the foundation of your posts. Some take comfort in this ideology because it means that as a man you can control a womans behavior and fidelity by how you treat her. That's demeaning towards women and frankly not logical.  If you were saying that men only cheat because his woman is doing something wrong,  the posters here would run you off with pitchforks and torches. 

Woah woah woah....I don’t want to come across as men cause women to cheat.

Lets come to a common ground here. If your spouse was treating you wrong and you tried for a long time to fix it and your spouse just didn’t care enough to change, the right thing to do would to break up AND THEN move on to new endeavors. Cheating is not the correct next step obviously. 

Now, can we agree that some humans are not the best at organizing and logically controlling their emotional thoughts? Can we agree that some humans do make bad decisions?

And lastly, can we agree that most people who lose self control and cheat honestly wish they didn’t have to hurt their spouse? In very rare circumstances does the WS want their BS to hurt. The WS is just not thinking right and the addiction takes over.

[DKT3]

Again,  I honestly believe that a decent percentage just dont care. A larger percentage dont really consider the impact because they dont believe that they will be caught. 

No, I dont think affairs are mistakes they are all conducted willingly and most are competent emotionally. 

Bottom line is your reasoning is passing the bill. 

To get involved in an affair it doesn't happen overnight,  it requires a series of broken boundaries each one requires conscious thoughts and actions.  

 

[JimmyNorth]

51 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

Again,  I honestly believe that a decent percentage just dont care. A larger percentage dont really consider the impact because they dont believe that they will be caught. 

No, I dont think affairs are mistakes they are all conducted willingly and most are competent emotionally. 

Bottom line is your reasoning is passing the bill. 

To get involved in an affair it doesn't happen overnight,  it requires a series of broken boundaries each one requires conscious thoughts and actions.  

 

Agreed! Of course an affair doesn’t happen overnight and it does require to break boundaries.

Lets look at this with a analogy. Do you have any former or active alcohol or drug addicts close to you? Each time they use, they choose too break boundaries everytime. There is something pulling at them.

Now of course most loving families don’t throw them out in the street. Most families  try to get them help.

Now the question will us as the LS family throw OP out in the street? 

[Dreamer2017]

I seldom post here on Love Shack.  I would like to give my assessment/opinion.  We as an individual are only responsible for our own actions and reactions.  We can't control the actions of others.  Regardless of the deep reasons for the path one has taken,  those decisions remain his or her choices, and consequences always follow.  We are responsible for the choices we make!   There is never a reason to cheat.  If a person acquires a desire to step out on their marriage, then divorce and move on. My opinion.

 

Best,

Dreamer

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed reference to third-party.

[JimmyNorth]

On 5/3/2020 at 10:38 PM, Dreamer2017 said:

I seldom post here on Love Shack.  I would like to give my assessment/opinion.  We as an individual are only responsible for our own actions and reactions.  We can't control the actions of others.  Regardless of the deep reasons for the path one has taken,  those decisions remain his or her choices, and consequences always follow.  We are responsible for the choices we make!   There is never a reason to cheat.  If a person acquires a desire to step out on their marriage, then divorce and move on. My opinion.

 

Best,

Dreamer

 

Absolutely right! Cheating is never the right way to "solve" personal problems. I think you'll notice most WS's end up wishing they would have divorced or separated from their BS first.

Edited May 5, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed quoted reference to third-party.

[Just a Guy]

What some folks have said about choices and the resulting consequences are spot on and I would think the OP will have to reflect on these and work on herself to safeguard herself and her family from any future incidents of a similar nature. Of course one of the consequences of her choices is that she may lose her family as s result of what happened. However, the lessons that she learns will help her safeguard her future family if she remarries, from such unfortunate incidents.

There was something else I wanted to add. There seemed to be a suggestion that infidelity only occurs when one or the other partner is unhappy in the relationship and who then, seeks comfort outside it with someone else. While this may be true in most cases, in some, the relationship is quite a happy one and there is, in fact, no reason for a person to cheat on his or her partner. However, sometimes an opportunity presents itself and sometimes sheer boredom or a desire for excitement and variety drives people to cheat on their spouse. When they do so they are almost certain that they will not be caught by their spouses and, if you were to ask them, they would tell you that they loved their spouse and were not contemplating on leaving them. What they were doing was just some non serious fun diversion which they could stop at any time they wished. This dynamic could have been at play here with the OP although it also seems that she was duped by her OM into thinking that he loved her and that she had a future with him. A really sad and tragic event with disastrous consequences. Wishing the OP all the best for the future.

Edited May 5, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed comment regarding moderators

[Amethyst68]

5 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

But can we agree that OP had something missing in her life which led her to this affair? Yes, it was not the right way to handle a broken marriage that had “bad sex” if that’s what was missing. However, we should look into the reasons as to why she went with this OM.

Obviously, if she was infatuated with her husband, she’d be leaving work everyday to go jump on him and love him. But she wasn’t into her husband that way anymore and something caused that. May not have been husbands fault, but what caused OP to disconnect from husband that way??

Would it be fair to say that OP is a sex crazed nymphomaniac that wanted her OM’s sex selfishly??? No, that’s probably not the case. We have to look at the bigger picture here and see what’s up.

Most people want to harshly judge and I totally get it because there is a lot of hurt. But I really do believe that malicious, sex crazy, polyamorous women are NOT that common. Most women who stray FALL IN LOVE, and we have to ask why did that fall in love.

Again an affair is a series of choices. So most women who stray fall in love do they? They still have to choose to lie, to deceive and to do it over and over again. Let's not sugar coat it. Affairs are not some kind of great love stories, they're one bad decision after an other ending where innocent people get hurt. They're played out in the shadows for a reason.

For some reason you seem determined to see MW/OW as some kind of victim. They are always the innocent, manipulated by the man for their own use.

Women play these games just as well as men do!

[usa1ah]

12 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

But can we agree that OP had something missing in her life which led her to this affair? Yes, it was not the right way to handle a broken marriage that had “bad sex” if that’s what was missing. However, we should look into the reasons as to why she went with this OM.

Obviously, if she was infatuated with her husband, she’d be leaving work everyday to go jump on him and love him. But she wasn’t into her husband that way anymore and something caused that. May not have been husbands fault, but what caused OP to disconnect from husband that way??

Would it be fair to say that OP is a sex crazed nymphomaniac that wanted her OM’s sex selfishly??? No, that’s probably not the case. We have to look at the bigger picture here and see what’s up.

Most people want to harshly judge and I totally get it because there is a lot of hurt. But I really do believe that malicious, sex crazy, polyamorous women are NOT that common. Most women who stray FALL IN LOVE, and we have to ask why did that fall in love.

The only thing missing is any morals on her part. There is never a reason for a affair. 
 

Problems in the marriage are on them both. More so on the one not wanting to talk things over. Problems in the marriage is never an excuse for a affair. 
 

O, there is something missing in my marriage. I think I will have an affair! This is BS. Just an excuse to push the blame some where else. 

[pepperbird]

11 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

Again an affair is a series of choices. So most women who stray fall in love do they? They still have to choose to lie, to deceive and to do it over and over again. Let's not sugar coat it. Affairs are not some kind of great love stories, they're one bad decision after an other ending where innocent people get hurt. They're played out in the shadows for a reason.

For some reason you seem determined to see MW/OW as some kind of victim. They are always the innocent, manipulated by the man for their own use.

Women play these games just as well as men do!

Actually, when one thinks about it,  painting the OM as some sort of wolf in sheep's clothing actually hurts the OP more than it helps. If he is the "player" some suggest, whey would he stick around if there were easier pickings somewhere else?

I am not suggesting she went looking for this, what I am saying is she's no innocent little lamb here. That's actually a good thing for her, as she can choose other behaviours in the future.

[pepperbird]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:29 AM, Just a Guy said:

What some folks have said about choices and the resulting consequences are spot on and I would think the OP will have to reflect on these and work on herself to safeguard herself and her family from any future incidents of a similar nature. Of course one of the consequences of her choices is that she may lose her family as s result of what happened. However, the lessons that she learns will help her safeguard her future family if she remarries, from such unfortunate incidents.

There was something else I wanted to add. There seemed to be a suggestion that infidelity only occurs when one or the other partner is unhappy in the relationship and who then, seeks comfort outside it with someone else. While this may be true in most cases, in some, the relationship is quite a happy one and there is, in fact, no reason for a person to cheat on his or her partner. However, sometimes an opportunity presents itself and sometimes sheer boredom or a desire for excitement and variety drives people to cheat on their spouse. When they do so they are almost certain that they will not be caught by their spouses and, if you were to ask them, they would tell you that they loved their spouse and were not contemplating on leaving them. What they were doing was just some non serious fun diversion which they could stop at any time they wished. This dynamic could have been at play here with the OP although it also seems that she was duped by her OM into thinking that he loved her and that she had a future with him. A really sad and tragic event with disastrous consequences. Wishing the OP all the best for the future.

JN, you're trying to sneak through the back door what you couldn't get through the front. According to this, you really do feel that affairs are often  caused by the bs- you even said as much here!

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed quoted comment about moderators.

[pepperbird]

4 hours ago, usa1ah said:

The only thing missing is any morals on her part. There is never a reason for a affair. 
 

Problems in the marriage are on them both. More so on the one not wanting to talk things over. Problems in the marriage is never an excuse for a affair. 
 

O, there is something missing in my marriage. I think I will have an affair! This is BS. Just an excuse to push the blame some where else. 

People don't like to admit that they hurt someone. It's not a pleasant feeling to know that.

[JimmyNorth]

1 minute ago, pepperbird said:

JN, you're trying to sneak through the back door what you couldn't get through the front. According to this, you really do feel that affairs are often  caused by the bs- you even said as much here!

 

I don’t really want to say it’s all BS’s fault at all. I only want to convey that there are cases where the BS is really bad and makes it easier for the spouse to become wayward. 

BS’s who have always tried to be the best spouse they can be in no way deserve to be cheated on. In those cases I think the WS is being a complete a-hole. 

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

I don’t really want to say it’s all BS’s fault at all. I only want to convey that there are cases where the BS is really bad and makes it easier for the spouse to become wayward. 

BS’s who have always tried to be the best spouse they can be in no way deserve to be cheated on. In those cases I think the WS is being a complete a-hole. 

Jimmy, most BS are doing their best.

[elaine567]

I am not sure any BS really deserves to be cheated on but I do think unhappy marriages create cheaters.
People in general love "connection" and if for some reason that "connection" is lacking then they will seek it elsewhere.
Yes there are people who are not monogamous and never were,  some who want to merely trade in their SO  for a better model, some who are out to find fun, but for some they find themselves stuck  in boring, lacklustre marriages with people they have little in common with and so are very vulnerable to getting that "connection" from somewhere else.
Yes try to fix it, yes walk away, yes divorce, but most have other "complications" to consider.
Weighing up the options, an affair may just fit the  bill.
The OP starved of romance, hopped into bed with the guy she thought was her Prince Charming.
She didn't feel wanted in her marriage, her self esteem was in her boots and here was a guy who really wanted her, why would she want to turn that down?
Ok we all want to say that wasn't her BSs fault, but maybe it was...

[heartwhole2]

3 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

I don’t really want to say it’s all BS’s fault at all. I only want to convey that there are cases where the BS is really bad and makes it easier for the spouse to become wayward. 

BS’s who have always tried to be the best spouse they can be in no way deserve to be cheated on. In those cases I think the WS is being a complete a-hole. 

"deserve to be cheated on" . . . Imagine substituting this with "deserve to be hit" or "deserve to be stolen from." Other people don't deserve to be mistreated. When would that ever end? What kind of foul treatment does my husband pretty much deserve because he cheated on me? 

Character isn't being kind or faithful or honest because it's easy or only when others do it first. Character is being a consistently healthy and whole person no matter how others treat us. 

[JimmyNorth]

19 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

"deserve to be cheated on" . . . Imagine substituting this with "deserve to be hit" or "deserve to be stolen from." Other people don't deserve to be mistreated. When would that ever end? What kind of foul treatment does my husband pretty much deserve because he cheated on me? 

Character isn't being kind or faithful or honest because it's easy or only when others do it first. Character is being a consistently healthy and whole person no matter how others treat us. 

I think you may run into several circumstances (outside of relationship matters) where you would say someone should get punched. Doesn’t mean it’s right, but I guaranteed you had the thought.

There may be several here on LS that might say I should get hit for example.

[heartwhole2]

55 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

I think you may run into several circumstances (outside of relationship matters) where you would say someone should get punched. Doesn’t mean it’s right, but I guaranteed you had the thought.

There may be several here on LS that might say I should get hit for example.

And yet I've never seen someone advise that someone should get cheated on. Again, for a website that promotes personal responsibility, spending all this energy explaining why people who have failed to be personally responsible are kinda sorta OK is contrary to the goal here. You could instead spend that energy on becoming a person who doesn't need to convince others that he's a good guy when he does bad things. 

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Yes there are people who are not monogamous and never were,  some who want to merely trade in their SO  for a better model, some who are out to find fun, but for some they find themselves stuck  in boring, lacklustre marriages with people they have little in common with and so are very vulnerable to getting that "connection" from somewhere else.
Yes try to fix it, yes walk away, yes divorce, but most have other "complications" to consider.
Weighing up the options, an affair may just fit the  bill.

I don't know about "create", but yes I think some % of cheaters find themselves there and take the "garden path" (to a non-solution, generally) of an affair, rather than grapple with the issues in their marriage. It's a bit like turning to illegal substances in a way, rather than taking legitimate steps to fix things/help themselves feel better. Maybe it could have been as easy as insisting on "date nights" for some. Oh well...

[usa1ah]

You can make any excuse you want for being a cheater. In the end they don’t amount to anything. Your still a cheater with no “really” excuse for being one. The only thing missing from the marriage is the cheater’s morals. 

[Dimjo9]

13 minutes ago, usa1ah said:

You can make any excuse you want for being a cheater. In the end they don’t amount to anything. Your still a cheater with no “really” excuse for being one. The only thing missing from the marriage is the cheater’s morals. 

I recently watched 50 shades of Grey.. what made Billionaire Christian Grey falls in love with Anastacia Steele is her purity of heart & body..

Most couple looked for this in a marriage.. 

[pepperbird]

15 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

I think you may run into several circumstances (outside of relationship matters) where you would say someone should get punched. Doesn’t mean it’s right, but I guaranteed you had the thought.

There may be several here on LS that might say I should get hit for example.

Jimmy,
I really appreciate that you're willing to be open minded enough to discuss all of this. You don;t sound like a bad guy to me at all. If you were, you'd be gloating about what you did- I haven't seen any evidence if that at all. You're just like the rest of us, trying to do your best.

The truth of all this though is that no one deserves to be cheated on and it really doesn't solve anything. It just makes a situation even worse. For all you say you and your wife didn't mesh, I doubt you wnated to hurt her, and if you could go back and do all this another way that didn't hurt anyone,you would. The problem is you can't. All you can do is learn and share what you have learned to help keep others from having to go through what you did.
I don't know about any other BS, but to me, the worst part of my husband cheating was the breech of trust. I've had some really horrible boyfriends, and that taught me not to trust anyone 100 percent. My husband was the one person I let "in". I allowed my self to give him that 100 percent. A stupid move on my part I know, but I did.
Never, ever again. He effectively killed that part of me. I no longer really trust anyone. I know that may sound bitter, but it's actually self preservation. I can't go through that again. It was worse than being beat up. The first guy I ever really went out with was physically abusive, but I learned to expect that from him. It was what it was. It was who he was. I quickly figured that out, felt I deserved it and accepted it, at least for a while until my parents found out and got me away from him.
My husband cheating hurt far worse than any hit ever from my first boyfriend ever did.   I know how that sounds. It's my own view-I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me. Physical wounds heal, but mental ones? They stay with you-you can't run from your own mind-at least I never could. .

[DKT3]

On 5/4/2020 at 3:30 PM, elaine567 said:

I am not sure any BS really deserves to be cheated on but I do think unhappy marriages create cheaters.
People in general love "connection" and if for some reason that "connection" is lacking then they will seek it elsewhere.
Yes there are people who are not monogamous and never were,  some who want to merely trade in their SO  for a better model, some who are out to find fun, but for some they find themselves stuck  in boring, lacklustre marriages with people they have little in common with and so are very vulnerable to getting that "connection" from somewhere else.
Yes try to fix it, yes walk away, yes divorce, but most have other "complications" to consider.
Weighing up the options, an affair may just fit the  bill.
The OP starved of romance, hopped into bed with the guy she thought was her Prince Charming.
She didn't feel wanted in her marriage, her self esteem was in her boots and here was a guy who really wanted her, why would she want to turn that down?
Ok we all want to say that wasn't her BSs fault, but maybe it was...

Nope, you always have other options.  

Saying someone "made" you cheat is no different then saying someone "made" someone hit them. 

If I came here and said my wife belittles me cheats on me stays out all night so I smack her around would you agree its because she made me feel like it was my only option? Absolutely not,  my actions are my responsibility,  I had other options then to inflict pain because she made me feel bad.

 

[heartwhole2]

"if for some reason that connection is lacking" . . . Many cheaters are passive and conflict-avoidant, and the lacking connection seems to them something that just happened, or that their spouse is 90% responsible for, when in reality a healthy relationship involves the constant choice to connect over and over. [Actually, I paused typing this message for a couple of hours to connect with my husband . . . case in point.]

I think we all understand what cheaters tell themselves to justify their cheating, and I think we all have a different hierarchy of which reasons are super duper lame and which reasons are more understandable. But cheating is an inherently unhealthy choice for which nobody but the cheater is ever responsible. If you said, "This marriage isn't working for me and I'm tempted to get my needs met elsewhere" all of a sudden you'd find yourself either separated or with a spouse who's woken up to your unhappiness. Either way you'd be better off than cheating. 

I am not surprised at the abysmal "success" rates for affairs turned real life relationships because they lack the element required for a cheater and betrayed spouse to reconcile, namely the necessity of the cheater taking responsibility. Why would you take responsibility when your schmooopy thinks (at least in the filtered haze of desiring what one can't have) that your s*** doesn't stink? You've got two people vying for you, and you get to choose the one who thinks all the lying and deceiving you did was an awesome favor to them. There is no rock bottom; there is no make it or break it. There's just trying to build on that foundation of mirroring back what you want to see. You might as well try to build on quicksand. 

I do believe that a cheater who realizes this could transition into a new, healthy relationship with a former AP, but it would require a lot of hard work and looking in the mirror. This person would realize that their s*** does stink, would have a handle on the unique allure of affairs, and would be very anxious to address the character flaws that led to their part of the unhappy, failed marriage . . . victim mindset, passivity, conflict avoidance, lack of empathy, lack of integrity, lack of self-awareness, lack of boundaries, etc. When they've done all that, will they still want to be with the AP, the person who encouraged them to escape reality and their responsibilities? They may well choose to start fresh on their own.

[assertives]

14 hours ago, pepperbird said:

Physical wounds heal, but mental ones? They stay with you-you can't run from your own mind-at least I never could. .

^^^^This. For some people, mental and emotional wounds never really heal completely, and even if they get over it, it's never the same as before. Personally, I struggle to trust people, it's so bad that it manifests itself in day to day life with colleagues telling me a fun fact and even seeing a doctor, and all these stemmed from my earliest recollection of betrayal I felt when I poured out my heart to my mother when I was a kid and asked her to keep it to herself. But she turned around and told my father. I can't even remember what it was about, but that breach of trust/betrayal was a gift that kept giving even till now when I'm in my late 30s.