How can I go about working on things with my ex slowly?

[elaine567]

6 minutes ago, Markliance said:

I wanted it paid back so I don't have anything else to do with her.

That is good and it makes going NC uncomplicated.
It is not "weak" to grieve, so whilst it may feel great to skip that stage and get with someone else, it tends not to work out well in the end and you could hurt this other girl a lot, when you come to your senses...

[Markliance]

I messaged saying thanks for the money, and that I agree with her about having space for a while and that I'll leave her alone.

She replied saying thanks for understanding, and that if I need her then she'll always be there for me.

Time to do me! In terms of the other girl, we are having a good conversation at the moment. I'm just going with the flow as I always have when first talking to someone. Due to the virus it may, and probably won't, lead to anything due to lack of places to go on dates, and I think everyone knows this.

At least the bars and pubs are opening on the 4th July haha

Edited May 11, 2020 by Markliance

[Markliance]

With everyday that passes, and talking to other people about it all, my eyes open more to what happened. I've realised the two main faults in the relationship.

 

1st Main Fault:

I slowly started to adopt her friends and her interests and by doing that I left my friends behind, not seeing them as much. I slowed down in doing my own hobbies and living my own life outside of us, while she still continued to live her life outside of us, causing the relationship to be unbalanced. Ex probably felt frustrated as I no longer brought enough to the table compared to the first half of the relationship where I did bring more. Ex probably also felt smothered because I stopped giving her as much space as I use to, and I think that comes in hand with being dependant on her. She needed me to be less dependable on her like I once was. She probably asked herself towards the end, and probably still does now, where is the guy I fell in love with, the guy that had a busy life? This was my contribution to us breaking up.

 

2nd Main Fault:

There was a communication break down. Not in the sense of the day to day, but later on in the relationship, Ex never communicated her issues or fears, or just thoughts on us. The frustrations she felt in 1st Main Fault led to disagreements. Disagreements about stupid things which 99/100 couples would have brushed aside, that's how pathetic they were, all about stupid things like what to eat, watch on TV, all that jazz (these arguments weren't everyday day, maybe once or twice a week towards the end of the relationship). These arguments weren't the issue, the fact Ex didn't communicate her frustrations was the issue. These frustrations/disappointments she felt were bubbling under the surface, causing her to feel very stressed. Sometimes I'd notice she was off, and I'd ask her if she was okay, and she'd reply the cliche "yeah, I'm just tired" or sometime similar. I gave her time and opportunities to speak her mind but she never did. This was her contribution to us breaking up. 

 

She suggested self isolating together during Covid-19, and this hurt us even more. Constantly under the same roof for a week, and she didn't communicate her feelings once. Instead I could see she was massively stressed as her work was affected, and include my fault of being dependant on her at times. By the end it became a triple threat: Covid stress, communication stress, dependency stress, and about 5 months ago, none of these existed.

When the break up happened, she didn't say much, apart that she couldn't see a future with me, and "I still love you and care for you, but we're fundamentally off."

She told me that her two best friends and their boyfriends have NEVER argued (because they've never told her that they argue, rather than saying "hey, us and our boyfriends never argue or disagree ever"). My ex said she wants a relationship like that. I mean, how naive can my ex actually be? Every relationship has disagreements, but what keeps them together is healthy communication, which then leads to them working on whatever issue there might be, or spliting up if work can't be done.

Our relationship had strong physical chemistry, intellectual discussion, romance. We got on with each others family and friends. We had shared values, same long term goals. We were in love.

I don't know if it's because inexperience in love and relationships (I was her first love and boyfriend), or that she's just naive (which I doubt, she's normally very aware and is intelligent) but she just ended it. If you love someone, and was once in love with someone, and there's no abuse, cheating, no other person in the frame, no toxicity, and you're both mature and intelligent adults, you don't just end something like that without attempting to talk first, unless you actually don't have experience or are just naive.

Apparently she started having doubts just under a month before ending things, and two weeks before actually ending things she tried breaking up (while we were doing that week of self isolation) but didn't actually go through with it. But even with me asking about her thoughts or wanting to talk about it all, did she ever communicate her thoughts once? No no no.

I have a feeling that she's just starting to realise the above, as yesterday she said  she's adamant to not let me go completely, she wants to talk in a month, and that she just needs space for a while, although her last actual words we're that if I need her then she'll always be there for me. She's also said she's not cancelling the Scotland accommodation we have booked for later this year as a holiday yet (we both booked separate stuff, and can claim full refunds for everything within a certain time frame).

I've accepted the break up. I think this next month of space will help. I realsied the dependency issues I had, I never had them before and I know recinnecting with friends is so important and In feeling better already, even though it's early days. 

I hope she can realise her faults and what she contributed to the break up. And down the line, maybe in a months time if I'm up to it, it'd be great to catch up with her. In an ideal world, we can talk then and understand what needs to change, what needs to be worked on. Everyone knows relationships need work. Not hard work so much, but more of an understanding how important communication is. If that ideal world happens, then that's another question.

[rjc149]

4 minutes ago, Markliance said:

I've accepted the break up. I think this next month of space will help. 

I hope she can realise her faults and what she contributed to the break up. And down the line, maybe in a months time if I'm up to it, it'd be great to catch up with her. In an ideal world, we can talk then and understand what needs to change, what needs to be worked on. 

You haven't accepted the breakup dude.

This is summed up as "I've accepted the breakup and I'm moving on. I can't wait to work on our relationship next month."

I get that you're hurting, and you are uncomfortable with the uncertainty. You want to soothe that discomfort, by telling yourself everything will work out with this girl in the end. And I feel you there. But you really need to stop bullsh-tting yourself. You need to be strong, face that uncertainty, and accept the end of things in life like a man.

One thing is for sure -- ex's will come back when they sense you've moved on. So, really move on. And it sounds like she'll be back. Don't hope, but I think it's a reasonable expectation. 

[Markliance]

53 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

You haven't accepted the breakup dude.

This is summed up as "I've accepted the breakup and I'm moving on. I can't wait to work on our relationship next month."

I get that you're hurting, and you are uncomfortable with the uncertainty. You want to soothe that discomfort, by telling yourself everything will work out with this girl in the end. And I feel you there. But you really need to stop bullsh-tting yourself. You need to be strong, face that uncertainty, and accept the end of things in life like a man.

One thing is for sure -- ex's will come back when they sense you've moved on. So, really move on. And it sounds like she'll be back. Don't hope, but I think it's a reasonable expectation. 

What I mean to say is that I've accepted the previous relationship is over. It's evident in my last post why we needed to end, and although we had lots of really great moments, but we need to work on ourselves which isn't possible without communication or a split. 

The great moments definitely outweighed the negatives, it's just a shame that she never realised that all relationships take some sort of work at times. If she doesn't realise it soon, she'll continue to feel unfulfilled, which I wouldn't want for anyone.

But you're right, I shouldn't find out hope and I'm not holding out hope she'll come back, but if I'm in a position in a months time where I'm thinking of her to a point where its be great to hear how she's doing, then I'll definitely reach out, but I'm not going to spend the next month or whatever waiting. I'm going to work on me, and make sure I'm never going to become dependant on someone again!

[Realitysux]

9 minutes ago, Markliance said:

What I mean to say is that I've accepted the previous relationship is over. It's evident in my last post why we needed to end, and although we had lots of really great moments, but we need to work on ourselves which isn't possible without communication or a split. 

The great moments definitely outweighed the negatives, it's just a shame that she never realised that all relationships take some sort of work at times. If she doesn't realise it soon, she'll continue to feel unfulfilled, which I wouldn't want for anyone.

But you're right, I shouldn't find out hope and I'm not holding out hope she'll come back, but if I'm in a position in a months time where I'm thinking of her to a point where its be great to hear how she's doing, then I'll definitely reach out, but I'm not going to spend the next month or whatever waiting. I'm going to work on me, and make sure I'm never going to become dependant on someone again!

Why did you become dependant on her? You need to ask yourself why you were first in order to change that behavior. 

[rjc149]

14 minutes ago, Markliance said:

she never realised that all relationships take some sort of work at times. If she doesn't realise it soon, she'll continue to feel unfulfilled, which I wouldn't want for anyone.

I would really try to stop caring what she thinks, or what she did wrong, or what she needs to do. It's good to understand how your relationship went wrong, but don't dwell on it as a hope for reconciliation with this particular girl. Understand what went wrong, so you can understand relationships better, and how to be better in them. 

[Markliance]

1 hour ago, rjc149 said:

I would really try to stop caring what she thinks, or what she did wrong, or what she needs to do. It's good to understand how your relationship went wrong, but don't dwell on it as a hope for reconciliation with this particular girl. Understand what went wrong, so you can understand relationships better, and how to be better in them. 

I know I wont get it from her, but knowing she never gave a reason apart from a blanket reason has made it longer for me to move on.

Can I get your opinion on if sounds like naivety or lack of relationship experience as to why she ended it? As I know for a fact there wasn't another guy in the picture, and that she isn't callous but a genuine woman.

[rjc149]

54 minutes ago, Markliance said:

I know I wont get it from her, but knowing she never gave a reason apart from a blanket reason has made it longer for me to move on.

Can I get your opinion on if sounds like naivety or lack of relationship experience as to why she ended it? As I know for a fact there wasn't another guy in the picture, and that she isn't callous but a genuine woman.

What happened in your relationship is that your girlfriend lost sexual attraction for you. 

From the information you've provided, it sounds like you were needy, a bit clingy and too available. You placed her value higher than yours. You were too focused on making her happy, so that in turn, she would reward your efforts with more affection and validation. You were seeking her approval, because you were not secure in your own approval of yourself. You were making her the centerpoint of your life, not your goals and ambitions as a man. 

When you smother a woman and are constantly seeking her attention, this neediness communicates weakness and scarcity -- that you must keep a woman locked down and in your control, because you need her support, and you can't let her out of your sight lest she stray and leave you. 

This is weak, submissive, and beta, and it turns women off like clockwork. Women like strong, dominant (not domineering), and alpha men. At least, they are more sexually attracted to these types of men. An attractive man, because he has options, will let women come and go as they please. They give women plenty of space and time, and if they go, no problem, all the best. There's always another one. 

I know the feminist posters are going to come out of the woodwork to nail my pimpled ass to the cross for this, but the ideal masculine/feminine polarity is for her to be seeking your validation more than you seek hers. It's for her to be pursuing you more, her to be reaching out to you more. When you are the one chasing, this places higher value on her and conveys insecurity on your part -- that you are not strong and independent, that you don't have options, that you are not a leader and decision-maker. And women generally don't like that. 

Not to say that you should be cold, indifferent, and aloof, and starve her for your affection. No, women leave those men too. What I mean is: treat a woman like a queen, and she'll start seeing you as a servant. Servants do not make their jyners tingle. Kings do.

Now, you have the opportunity to demonstrate to her that you are not needy and insecure, that you can be strong, independent, and emotionally self-reliant. You do that by not contacting her, ever, and meeting new women. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by rjc149

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Markliance said:

Can I get your opinion on if sounds like naivety or lack of relationship experience as to why she ended it? As I know for a fact there wasn't another guy in the picture, and that she isn't callous but a genuine woman.

Chiming in from my personal experience, I also once broke up with a boyfriend I felt was quite needy and overly dependent on me. I hadn’t met another guy either, but I had slowly and steadily lost feelings for my ex because he became more of a nuisance than a pleasure to be around. I just didn’t want to be his romantic partner anymore. 

So no, it doesn’t strike me that naivety or inexperience guided her decision. I think it simple reflects her lack of feelings for you, or at least the right feelings to keep the relationship going. Her heart wasn’t in it any longer.

[Markliance]

56 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

What happened in your relationship is that your girlfriend lost sexual attraction for you. 

From the information you've provided, it sounds like you were needy, a bit clingy and too available. You placed her value higher than yours. You were too focused on making her happy, so that in turn, she would reward your efforts with more affection and validation. You were seeking her approval, because you were not secure in your own approval of yourself. You were making her the centerpoint of your life, not your goals and ambitions as a man. 

When you smother a woman and are constantly seeking her attention, this neediness communicates weakness and scarcity -- that you must keep a woman locked down and in your control, because you need her support, and you can't let her out of your sight lest she stray and leave you. 

This is weak, submissive, and beta, and it turns women off like clockwork. Women like strong, dominant (not domineering), and alpha men. At least, they are more sexually attracted to these types of men. An attractive man, because he has options, will let women come and go as they please. They give women plenty of space and time, and if they go, no problem, all the best. There's always another one. 

I know the feminist posters are going to come out of the woodwork to nail my pimpled ass to the cross for this, but the ideal masculine/feminine polarity is for her to be seeking your validation more than you seek hers. It's for her to be pursuing you more, her to be reaching out to you more. When you are the one chasing, this places higher value on her and conveys insecurity on your part -- that you are not strong and independent, that you don't have options, that you are not a leader and decision-maker. And women generally don't like that. 

Not to say that you should be cold, indifferent, and aloof, and starve her for your affection. No, women leave those men too. What I mean is: treat a woman like a queen, and she'll start seeing you as a servant. Servants do not make their jyners tingle. Kings do.

Now, you have the opportunity to demonstrate to her that you are not needy and insecure, that you can be strong, independent, and emotionally self-reliant. You do that by not contacting her, ever, and meeting new women. 

Thank you for your reply, I can't really say anything in return as you've given a great piece for me to think about. 

This is the first relationship where I've became this beta guy. I was made redundant and was really embarrassed so I hardly told anyone! I told my ex and then I slowly became dependant on her emotional support, I did lean on her at times a bit too much (even after I landed myself a new job).

I will say one thing, the sexual chemistry was always there, lots of mind blowing sex until the last two days of our relationship. I was the first to make her experience a lot of things. I always took the lead in the bedroom and she loved it, and I think that's an insight in how I should have acted in the rest of the relationship, took the lead more. So I disagree that she lost sexual attraction, but maybe it's more that she didn't see me as a man anymore, in terms of a man in a relationship, if that makes sense?

[Markliance]

20 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Chiming in from my personal experience, I also once broke up with a boyfriend I felt was quite needy and overly dependent on me. I hadn’t met another guy either, but I had slowly and steadily lost feelings for my ex because he became more of a nuisance than a pleasure to be around. I just didn’t want to be his romantic partner anymore. 

So no, it doesn’t strike me that naivety or inexperience guided her decision. I think it simple reflects her lack of feelings for you, or at least the right feelings to keep the relationship going. Her heart wasn’t in it any longer.

Thank you for your reply!

I agree that she lost those feelings for me, but if there was communication then it's something I could have worked on, as I wasn't always beta with her, my job redundancy made me become dependant on her for emotional support.

Surely if they were your first love and never treated you badly, and cared for them then surly you'd want to try and explain what she wanted? That's what I meant my naive or inexperienced, in terms of how to communicate that, either in a relationship or a break up.

When I've been a dumper, and when I've been dumped before, there was always communication in the break up if we loved and cared for each other.

[assertives]

Off-topic, but did you make another account previously to ask about rekindling? I'm getting flashbacks on some of the things you've shared here and feel like it's written by the same person with alot of similarities in the details.

 https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/594565-can-i-get-her-back-or-rekindle/

[ExpatInItaly]

9 minutes ago, Markliance said:

When I've been a dumper, and when I've been dumped before, there was always communication in the break up if we loved and cared for each other.

That’s the point, actually.

She didn’t care enough to try to find a resolution, and thus, she didn’t bother communicating with you about it. She was ready to end it. 

[ExpatInItaly]

4 minutes ago, assertives said:

Off-topic, but did you make another account previously to ask about rekindling? I'm getting flashbacks on some of the things you've shared here and feel like it's written by the same person with alot of similarities in the details.

 https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/594565-can-i-get-her-back-or-rekindle/

I have to say, I wondered this too. The stories are strikingly similar. 

[Markliance]

4 minutes ago, assertives said:

Off-topic, but did you make another account previously to ask about rekindling? I'm getting flashbacks on some of the things you've shared here and feel like it's written by the same person with alot of similarities in the details.

 https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/594565-can-i-get-her-back-or-rekindle/

Sorry mate that's not me

[Markliance]

5 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

That’s the point, actually.

She didn’t care enough to try to find a resolution, and thus, she didn’t bother communicating with you about it. She was ready to end it. 

That's hard to listen to because she still is offering to be there for me if I need her, even though she wants to talk in about a month after some space? If she didn't care then why would she offer that, especially after I told her it's best to not speak again.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Markliance

[rjc149]

59 minutes ago, Markliance said:

I will say one thing, the sexual chemistry was always there, lots of mind blowing sex until the last two days of our relationship. I was the first to make her experience a lot of things. I always took the lead in the bedroom and she loved it, and I think that's an insight in how I should have acted in the rest of the relationship, took the lead more. So I disagree that she lost sexual attraction, but maybe it's more that she didn't see me as a man anymore, in terms of a man in a relationship, if that makes sense?

You're welcome and I'm glad I've helped. And yes, that makes sense, and is what happened in all likelihood. 

Like men, women will continue having sex with a man they've lost romantic feelings for. Unlike men, who can essentially masturbate with a willing vagina with little or no regard for its owner, for women, her willingness to have sex with a man she's lost feelings for is only up until a point. Women will have "one last lay" with men they are about to dump, with a replacement already lined up or even already sleeping with. Her willingness to have sex isn't always a litmus of her attraction for you. 

It's a good thing you didn't let it get to that point, or rather she didn't let it get there, where she was denying sex because she lost all interest and attraction for you. Because that's really the point of no return. And yes, it was heading there. You jumped off that train in time, so, it means you've still got a shot at her coming back IF you remain in no contact and LET HER COME TO YOU. 

That means no reaching out after a month, 2 months, a year, however long it takes. No contact unless or until she breaks it. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by rjc149

[rjc149]

44 minutes ago, Markliance said:

That's hard to listen to because she still is offering to be there for me if I need her, even though she wants to talk in about a month after some space? If she didn't care then why would she offer that, especially after I told her it's best to not speak again.

Because keeping you on layaway makes the breakup easier for her, not you. 

Don't make this easy for her. Make it as hard as possible. Make her face her decision. Go on Youtube and watch the final scene of Gone with the Wind "frankly my dear I don't give a damn." Put on your hat and walk away. You're gone. 

No. Contact. 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Markliance said:

That's hard to listen to because she still is offering to be there for me if I need her, even though she wants to talk in about a month after some space? If she didn't care then why would she offer that, especially after I told her it's best to not speak again.

You misunderstood what I meant by not caring. 

She didn’t care enough about the relationship to try to salvage it by communicating her concerns. However, that doesn’t mean she doesn’t care about you as a person. She obviously doesn’t feel good about hurting you, and she cares about your well-being. Those are two different ballgames 

I had also told this specific ex that I’d be there for him. I felt awful for causing him pain, and it was my misguided attempt at offering an olive branch. I only realized later that he misinterpreted this to mean that maybe I’d be open to reconciliation after some time had passed. But that wasn’t what I intended. I had hoped that he’d detach and be fine with being friends if we reconnected at some point in the future. I was inexperienced with break-ups and didn’t get that this was giving him false hope. Once I understood that, well, I knew we’d have to cut contact. We fell out of touch and both moved on. I met someone else  few months later that I would up dating for much longer than I’d been with this ex, to be honest. 

Sometimes these chapters just close. That’s especially true when someone has not  dated much before and hasn’t had much relationship experience, and is still figuring out what they want (or don’t want) in a partner. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[Markliance]

13 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

That’s the point, actually.

She didn’t care enough to try to find a resolution, and thus, she didn’t bother communicating with you about it. She was ready to end it. 

I understand she stopped caring, but the only reason she stopped caring was because the issues kept happening. And they only kept happening because they were never brought to attention. Like shaking a bottle of coca cola up and never releasing the tension, then one day you open the bottle fast and get hit with the spray.

In the final two weeks of us, she increased how she interacted with me, inititating calls and flirting a lot more than she would, tell me how much she loves me and talking more about our future. Looking back, maybe that was her attempt to fix things because she didn't know how to actually communicate her thoughts on us? It's like putting a plaster over a broken piece of wall because you don't know how to fix the wall properly.

I remember doing something like this in one if my first relationships back in the day, showing how much I loved her but still had this under-the-surface tension, and I feared talking about the problems would bring 'negative communication' into the relationship, which I thought was always a bad thing, that relationships should always be happy and never any tough talk. I let this frustration grow until it became too much. Then I had to end things because that frustration caused a lot of stress and the stress became unmanageable so I had to end things for myself.

[Realitysux]

12 minutes ago, Markliance said:

 it's like putting a plaster over a broken piece of wall because you don't know how to fix the wall properly.

Well that depends... How broken is the wall? Did you just slam the door and hit the wall with the door knob. Sometimes it just takes plaster! 

[Markliance]

12 minutes ago, Realitysux said:

Well that depends... How broken is the wall? Did you just slam the door and hit the wall with the door knob. Sometimes it just takes plaster! 

The wall wasn't massively damaged at all, probably chipped in only a few places. It doesn't matter how much damage there is, even if the wall was slightly chipped due to slamming the door, a plaster doesn't heal it, just covers it up.

[Realitysux]

3 minutes ago, Markliance said:

The wall wasn't massively damaged at all, probably chipped in only a few places. It doesn't matter how much damage there is, even if the wall was slightly chipped due to slamming the door, a plaster doesn't heal it, just covers it up.

Yea because it's cheaper and quicker. Who would spend more money if plaster is going to make it look nice. Some plaster and paint. You used the wrong example in my opinion. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Realitysux

[Markliance]

2 minutes ago, Realitysux said:

Yea because it's cheaper and quicker. Who would spend more money if plaster is going to make it look nice. Some plaster and paint. You used the wrong example in my opinion. 

If the damage is only chipped paint, a then a long term fix is to paint it, a short term fix is to stick a plaster over it. Same with relationships, a long term fix is better than a short term fix wouldn't you say?