Can you choose to love someone?

[Superluminal]

Hi All,

It's been a while for me since I posted here.  OM and I are over and have been for while.  But I still sometimes look back on those years and question what happened.  I recall a conversation we once had a while ago where he was offered advice that to love someone is a choice.  That if we choose to love someone, it will happen.  

I don't know if I agree with this.  Not 100%.  I can choose to be with someone and want to love them but that's no guarantee that it will work.     

I guess what I'm asking...is love organic and beyond our control?  Or is it possible to "re-love" someone again if it was once lost?

And yes, he chose his wife and not me.  I've made peace with this, knowing it's where he's happiest.  But I still wonder sometimes...

 

 

 

 

 

[K.K.]

Yes, you can reignite love that was once there. 

No, you can’t choose to love someone if you don’t. You can choose to pretend to love someone maybe. But that’s probably reserved for those gold digging murderous wack jobs on the ID Channel. 

[BaileyB]

I think you are asking different questions here.

Sure, love is a choice. I don’t disagree with him. I chose to love my boyfriend despite the fact that he wears sweatpants around the house that pulls up to his ears (it’s very not sexy, trust me). 🤣

But, I think what you heard is “if you chose to love someone, then it will work out - regardless of circumstance.” And you know from experience, this is not true. This is the magical kind of thinking that gets people into affairs. It’s the kind of thing men say to convince women to stay in affairs, to accept less than they should from a man. You could chose to love him, it doesn’t change the fact that he is married to another woman and thus, he can not have an authentic, committed relationship with you.

In your last statement, I think what you are asking is - is falling in love destined to be, beyond our control? That’s another question entirely. Developing feelings for another person may not be in our control. but it is certainly an individuals choice to act on that feeling, or not. This kind of thinking gets a lot of OW in trouble... “it just happened...” and “we have a deep love that was meant to be...” Not true. There is the heart, but there is also the head. In this situation, where the person you “love” is not available or able to be in a healthy relationship, one would be wise to listen to the head... hopefully it says, “You have feelings for this man, but it’s not in your best interest to act on those feelings. It’s not in your best interest to reignite this affair. It certainly was, and still is, a dead end relationship.

Edited May 7, 2020 by BaileyB

[The Outlaw]

To me at least it just happens naturally and isn't always necessarily beyond our control. Sometimes things just happen that alter the way we feel and the feelings just aren't as strong (if at all) like they used to be. But I also do think that you can fall back in love with somebody. 

[heartwhole2]

I think of arranged marriages and it makes me think our idea of love is very narrow. Our romantic life often doesn't follow a Hollywood script. 

TBH I don't know if being "in love" is a real quantifiable thing. Is it different than infatuation or limerence or the hormone cocktail you experience as you're bonding with a new lover? I think the recipe for lifelong love is attraction + compatibility + effort. People start out with the first two and forget about the third. 

If you want to know if xMM could be back in love with BW, sure, it's possible. I don't know if it's likely because, again, effort. Does he seem like the kind of person who would throw himself into bettering himself and his marriage? And does it really matter? 

People in long term marriages talk about the periods when they experience a freshness, a second or third honeymoon phase, and then periods when they experience a valley where things are more trying. It's hard to imagine even the most compatible, faithful, and hard-working couple not having some relative lulls when they spend decades together. But is love feeling super duper in love, or is the act of choosing one another even when it's not easy?

Your question makes me think of this poem by Marge Piercy:

"Love is a Lumpy Thing"

Love is a lumpy thing.
Infatuation is peacock tails,
fountains of rose petals,
always music underneath
like a movie crescendoing.

Love is cutting onions
for supper when you are
already tired. Love is patched
of hope and habit and desire,
a tent mended nightly.

Love is tough as a bone
you gnaw on, suck out
the marrow. Love is a bone
of which you make soup
and, surprise, it sustains you.

Infatuation is fun, a tango
in a grove of mirrors. Love
is just work, what you do
one day after the next
like bricks laid end to end.

In finality, infatuation
leaves you with a sticky
sweet residue in the bottom
of the glass, and love is all
you remember as you’re dying.

[mark clemson]

I do like the poem.

Part of the answer depends on how you define love. One view, that I suspect some significant but probably relatively small % of people have, is that love is the psychological state of limerence (genuinely an altered state of consciousness). You can look this term up e.g. on Wikipedia if you like.

IF you use that definition, "love" is outside of your control in that you can't choose to turn limerence on or off - it's involuntary. Triggering it deliberately is probably not possible, although I suspect some folks may have tried. Turning it off is even more problematic as it becomes to a certain extent a matter of brain chemistry. If the person you love (have limerence for) doesn't love you back you get stuck having feelings for them that aren't reciprocated. We see that here on LS with some frequency.

Generally, limerence wears off (again involuntarily) as your brain chemistry slowly adjusts - a matter of months to years. But eventually it fades.

You can choose to love the person in other ways, but you're not likely to have limerence for your LT partner again, at least not deliberately and for many years. When your brain organically reaches a state where it can feel limerence again you can fall in love (have limerence) again. However, triggering it is again not in your control normally, so it could easily be for someone who's not your LT partner. Hence you need to be a bit guarded with your relationships/friendships outside your marriage.

It's always possible you could have it for a LT partner again too, but I suspect it's not particularly likely as they will have become someone you're "used to" in your life. My understanding is that difficulties/obstacles to a relationship are apparently what tend to intensify limerence to the point where it becomes extremely strong.

So, that would be one view.

[Amethyst68]

I think that attraction happens naturally, what what occurs after that grows. By that I mean the 'we couldn't help falling in love' argument is a load of you know what...

You may not be be able to stop that initial feeling attraction but everything you do in relation to it is in fact a choice. Oh people get swept up in their emotions, especially at the start of something new but in certain situations and remembering what forum we're in that's no excuse.

[preraph]

You can love someone to pieces and still never once want to have sex with them if the physical attraction isn't there. 

[pepperbird]

It's not really possible to answer this question without first defining what "love" is.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

You may not be be able to stop that initial feeling attraction but everything you do in relation to it is in fact a choice.

Agreed.
There is a step or a few steps after that and each step is a choice.
One can be highly attracted even to the point of "love", but the decision to do anything about it, is always a choice

 

[MissBee]

On 5/7/2020 at 6:09 PM, Superluminal said:

Hi All,

It's been a while for me since I posted here.  OM and I are over and have been for while.  But I still sometimes look back on those years and question what happened.  I recall a conversation we once had a while ago where he was offered advice that to love someone is a choice.  That if we choose to love someone, it will happen.  

I don't know if I agree with this.  Not 100%.  I can choose to be with someone and want to love them but that's no guarantee that it will work.     

I guess what I'm asking...is love organic and beyond our control?  Or is it possible to "re-love" someone again if it was once lost?

And yes, he chose his wife and not me.  I've made peace with this, knowing it's where he's happiest.  But I still wonder sometimes...

 

 

 

 

 

 

It depends on what love means to you. I've realized that when we say love, we're not always talking about the same thing.

In some schools of thought love is just about a particular feeling or being "in love" and about that chemistry and romance and passion (this for example, if that's what you mean by love, I don't think you can choose that).

If love however is about respect, commitment, compromise, caring for someone's best interest, treating them well, learning about them, then yea, you can choose to do that. 

Attraction is beyond our control but choosing to show up, treat someone well, stand by them. invest etc is a choice through and through. And in my experience, you really need both for a happy relationship. 

[Superluminal]

5 hours ago, MissBee said:

 

It depends on what love means to you. I've realized that when we say love, we're not always talking about the same thing.

In some schools of thought love is just about a particular feeling or being "in love" and about that chemistry and romance and passion (this for example, if that's what you mean by love, I don't think you can choose that).

If love however is about respect, commitment, compromise, caring for someone's best interest, treating them well, learning about them, then yea, you can choose to do that. 

Attraction is beyond our control but choosing to show up, treat someone well, stand by them. invest etc is a choice through and through. And in my experience, you really need both for a happy relationship. 

For me, this kinda defines the difference between loving someone and being in love with someone.  Being in love includes attraction and hormones and all those wonderful endorphins along with commitment and respect.  Physical intimacy is part of it.  And yeah, the physical aspect of this is mostly out of our control.   Loving someone is the love I would feel towards my children or a close friend.  This is quite the oversimplification, I'm sure.  

My MM mentioned many times that he loves his wife but is not in love with his wife. (I think all us OM/OW have heard this at one point or another.) But I can only assume that he was willing to stay in a marriage with someone he loves but not "in love" with for the sake of his kids, finances, emotional stability, etc.  I wonder how often MM/MW make this choice when deciding whether to stay or leave.  

[DKT3]

Making a choice to love someone is the only way you can love someone since love is action. All of the stuff you're talking about is high school immaturity and Hollywood romcom stuff. Lust doesn't equal in love, it just pure physical attraction.  In love means fighting through the times when attraction is low. In long relationships there are lows. Physical attraction cant carry a relationship.  Those who attempt it wake up one day thinking who the hell is this jackass sleeping next to me.

[Starswillshine]

I can only offer my own experiences:

I was married to my ex-husband for 20 years. We had many ups and downs. Times when I felt only that I loved him but wasn't in love with him. When I felt those feelings, I made a conscious effort to rekindle the flame. It always worked. I was choosing him to love and be in love with. 

With my current SO, I knew him when I was married. He was sexy and alluring; I knew this. I also knew that if I played with fire, I was going to get burned. I loved my husband; I loved my kids, and I was not about to ruin my marriage and my family. I chose to keep firm boundaries up and chose to not fall in love with him. 

When I divorced my husband for his affair... my current SO came into the picture. And easily we fell in love. 

All of these were controlled by actions. I do, however, think it is hard to force yourself to fall in love with someone you just have zero attraction to (not just discussing physical, but I think it is easy to fall back in love with someone who you were once in love with and if there was not any sort of major betrayal.)

I think the whole line of "You can't help who you fall in love with" is complete hollywood BULLCRAP. You can. You can chose to pursue or not. I see many attractive men out on the streets, it's easy to not pursue them.

[BaileyB]

9 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Making a choice to love someone is the only way you can love someone since love is action. All of the stuff you're talking about is high school immaturity and Hollywood romcom stuff. 

So true. It’s literally the easiest thing to say... “I love my wife but I’m not in love with her anymore...” He knows that the woman he says this to, the other woman he is sleeping with, is more than likely going to extrapolate this to - “He must love me!!” And then, it’s on... 

The thing is, he says that he stays out of obligation but he wouldn’t be obligated if he didn’t love his wife, his children, his family, and the life they share... at least in some way. But, that’s more difficult to admit and more difficult to accept.

 

[MissBee]

10 hours ago, Superluminal said:

For me, this kinda defines the difference between loving someone and being in love with someone.  Being in love includes attraction and hormones and all those wonderful endorphins along with commitment and respect.  Physical intimacy is part of it.  And yeah, the physical aspect of this is mostly out of our control.   Loving someone is the love I would feel towards my children or a close friend.  This is quite the oversimplification, I'm sure.  

My MM mentioned many times that he loves his wife but is not in love with his wife. (I think all us OM/OW have heard this at one point or another.) But I can only assume that he was willing to stay in a marriage with someone he loves but not "in love" with for the sake of his kids, finances, emotional stability, etc.  I wonder how often MM/MW make this choice when deciding whether to stay or leave.  

 

The crazy part is that most relationships if given time move from the high of "in love" towards less of those feelings, which actually isn't an issue, it's that most people and our movies and stories teach us that relationships are all about the heady cocktail when you first fall in love. But if you read and listen to psychologists, neuroscientists who specialize in understanding the brain and body on love, anthropologists etc you learn that "falling in love" is literally a chemical reaction that isn't sustainable over the long run. And the more stable, calmer feelings are a natural cycle of a relationship esp a long one. That isn't to say that physical intimacy has to die or romance, those are also choices, to cultivate that, but you shouldn't be alarmed if you're not having sex 10 times a week and getting butterflies 25 years in versus 2 years in. The mistake is most of us don't truly understand this and so think something is wrong when those chemicals subside and think it's about finding a new person, but surprise, give that new person time and you'll often end up back in the same place when the newness wears off. 

So the choice here is to realize that ALL relationships that go beyond the honeymoon ebbs and flows and you won't always feel the high of being in love and that's normal and the choice to build a life isn't built only on in love chemicals, but you can also choose to do things to inject romance and passion back in and this has to be a choice. It's not a simple math of there is some magical person out there that I will fall in love with and remain on that high with for 50 years, I just have to find them. That's the mistake and disillusion when you realize, oh, yea some relationships have a stronger pull than others (and unfortunately too, sometimes toxic ones have the strongest chemical reactions that feed us), but overall, given enough time, every relationship has stages. That's also the great part of affairs, you get to stay in that high for a lot longer, same in long distance relationships, or any situation where it's intermittent or has some obstacle in the way. It's fascinating stuff to read about and makes our situations make sooo much sense! 

[Fletch Lives]

We do not choose who we fall in love with.

The only choice we have is who we stay with.

[DKT3]

44 minutes ago, Fletch Lives said:

We do not choose who we fall in love with.

The only choice we have is who we stay with.

We do choose who we fall in love with. 

It's a process to fall in love with someone.  Starts with attraction.  Once we recognize the attraction we can choose not to engage with that person. 

I believe that there is some confusion,  we dont really control who we are attracted too,  everything after that is a matter of effort and energy.  Lust doesn't mean love. We should be able to recognize the difference post teen years. Unfortunately,  people tend to get stuck there. Emotional immaturity leads to one confusing lust for love. To complicate matters farther,  those in affairs add addiction to the mix. So in thier minds attraction + lust + addiction equals a confused mess that leave one irrational and delusional. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by DKT3

[Gr8fuln2020]

You can choose to love anyone you want. You cannot choose to be IN LOVE with someone (romantically). 

[DKT3]

32 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

You can choose to love anyone you want. You cannot choose to be IN LOVE with someone (romantically). 

But you can. Talk to people who have been in loving relationships for 40 50 years and they will tell you they chose to be in love.

That in love feeling isn't a constant emotion in any relationship.  When it's at a low or missing they choose to stay committed until it returns.  

That in love feeling is all about lust and attraction.  It cant sustain a relationship,  that requires a more mature love.

[Gr8fuln2020]

24 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

But you can. Talk to people who have been in loving relationships for 40 50 years and they will tell you they chose to be in love.

That in love feeling isn't a constant emotion in any relationship.  When it's at a low or missing they choose to stay committed until it returns.  

That in love feeling is all about lust and attraction.  It cant sustain a relationship,  that requires a more mature love.

Yeah. This is one of those threads that has no definitive answer. The act of staying with someone is not necessarily love. We all know that  many long-term relationships of earlier generations were not all that loving. They remained for reasons that had nothing to do with being in love. Also, if they stayed until that 'feeling' came back, doesn't that imply that it was something outside of their immediate control? Just thinking out loud here...

[DKT3]

23 minutes ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

Yeah. This is one of those threads that has no definitive answer. The act of staying with someone is not necessarily love. We all know that  many long-term relationships of earlier generations were not all that loving. They remained for reasons that had nothing to do with being in love. Also, if they stayed until that 'feeling' came back, doesn't that imply that it was something outside of their immediate control? Just thinking out loud here...

I typed out a long scientific post that in sure no one wanted to read. So the short version is:

Emotions are generated in the brain.  Negative emotions can overwhelm positive emotions if we mentally dwell on those thoughts or when the person continues the actions that led to those thoughts. 

The elements of feeling in love simply dont last. That's why its important for a relationship to be based on something more mature and sustainable. 

[pepperbird]

8 hours ago, DKT3 said:

I typed out a long scientific post that in sure no one wanted to read. So the short version is:

Emotions are generated in the brain.  Negative emotions can overwhelm positive emotions if we mentally dwell on those thoughts or when the person continues the actions that led to those thoughts. 

The elements of feeling in love simply dont last. That's why its important for a relationship to be based on something more mature and sustainable. 

it makes sense. there's going to be times in any long relationship where the deeper level connection will get them through. Many times, I've heard men and women say that they will love their partner no matter what. Many time,s the first bump in the road and there's really nothing there.

[Prudence V]

On 5/7/2020 at 11:09 PM, Superluminal said:

is love organic and beyond our control?

Not in my understanding of love. Chemistry happens, attraction happens, infatuation happens, lust happens. But love? Love is a gradual process, of allowing someone in, of learning to trust, of recognising their faults and limitations but making peace with those, of learning to respect their differences, of learning about your own limitations, of learning where your own boundaries lie, and of learning which values matter most to you. 
 

When I met my now-H, it was a heady mix of desire and attraction, served up with a large dollop of realism. He lived on the other side of the world, was M with kids, was British, etc. - clearly suitable for a fling, some passing amusement, but nothing beyond that. But as I got to know him better, I learned more about him that I liked and respected, and we became friends as well as lovers. And along the way, we both made the conscious choice to allow ourselves to “fall in love”, knowing that that brought consequences: that we’d want to be together, and that that would need big changes for us both. We spoke through it all at each step of the way, and decided to go for it. 
 

We’ve been together for a long time now - married more than ten years, still very much in love. Because we never did that “infatuation” thing, there was no unsustainable high to come down from - just a burning passion that’s grown stronger over the years, coupled with a deepening intimacy and increasing respect. Neither of us is perfect - but we knew that stuff from the start, so there’s been no nasty shock, no waking up to reality. We walked in with eyes wide open. Love was something we actively chose, back then, and something we choose anew each day. 

[chillii]

On 5/11/2020 at 2:22 PM, Superluminal said:

For me, this kinda defines the difference between loving someone and being in love with someone.  Being in love includes attraction and hormones and all those wonderful endorphins along with commitment and respect.  Physical intimacy is part of it.  And yeah, the physical aspect of this is mostly out of our control.   Loving someone is the love I would feel towards my children or a close friend.  This is quite the oversimplification, I'm sure.  

My MM mentioned many times that he loves his wife but is not in love with his wife. (I think all us OM/OW have heard this at one point or another.) But I can only assume that he was willing to stay in a marriage with someone he loves but not "in love" with for the sake of his kids, finances, emotional stability, etc.  I wonder how often MM/MW make this choice when deciding whether to stay or leave.  

 

All that is a hugely powerful thing between two people and l do think it all added into the equation , love can be enough , and in love can also be reignited in marriages too , marriage is all made up of so many emotional cycles over the years and feeling come and go and come again. lt's just that most don't ride the cycles out these days anymore imo.

As for love or in love , for some love is enough , the longest most devoted marriage l know of is a love but it wasn't an in love. For some that wouldn't work but 35yrs and you can still see the deep love and respect between these two.

Edited May 12, 2020 by chillii