Retroactive jealousy with a special twist

[June00]

I've read my share about articles regarding retroactive jealousy and looked at forums plenty to try to deal with it. The thing is, first off, it is generally a man that comes with the problem and more often than not I see enough people being aggressive, often saying "get over it", "it's insulting to your girlfriend", "its toxic masculinity/misogyny for judging", blah blah. I understand where they're coming from, but actually dealing with it is far more complex than just pinpointing someone as a slut. As someone that is dealing with it, it is more about how we feel than what we classify the other person. The person might be amazing and we understand that to the point that it is conflicting and so, we look for other's help.

The second thing I notice is the common: think about your past, unless you're a VIRGIN- and that's when I stop reading. First of, I'm a woman, second of, I don't have a sexual past. So when that argument is used I suddenly feel hopeless because I cannot relate to a frase that is used to make the person be empathetic and be aware of how it would be if now their partner was judging them.

While I haven't had a professional diagnose it, I feel that it is retroactive jealousy with OCD tendencies, but correct me if I am wrong.

----------------------------CONTEXT-------------------------------------------------

I am in a relationship of 2 years now and I've had these thoughts since the beginning but I figured I would have gotten over them by now, -they didn't-, and it is affecting it. No, I didn't grow up in a hyper religious or super conservative household or school, I blame it more on my idealization of relationships since childhood where it never occurred to me that someone else might have been with other people. I am fully aware that it might have something to do with insecurities and immaturity (I am placing the problem fully on myself and I want to work on it).

I am older than him and I am 23, and while I had PLENTY of opportunities to have sex, like many other people, I never did even when I was really curious. I also don't think it's wrong, I believe that people can do whatever they please and if they want to have sex with a thousand people it is their life and business, the problem is when they want to be involved with me romantically, because then it does become my business and only then I have a saying and can judge.

It feels so strange, I can't avoid thinking about in the weirdest times and it only makes me picture it and overthink the common question "with how many other people have you done it too"? I put faces on them because of my unnecessary and unhealthy snooping, and it makes me feel dirty. Commonly I think "if I waited and it wasn't hard why couldn't you"?

I get reclusive and even passive aggressive sometimes, I fight and create a whole tragedy out of something so insignificant. He apologizes and is never angry, which makes me feel so bad because I' the one acting irrational but even if my logical self understands this, the emotional side overcomes it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am genuinely trying to find a solution, it makes me cry and feel anxious and I understand that it is damaging my relationship and I am the one causing it. I am at that point that I am considering ending the relationship because I cannot deal with it. So if anyone has any help or thoughts I would be really thankful.

[basil67]

While I don't have retroactive jealousy, I do have irrational thoughts at times.  To avoid killing my relationship, I keep the thoughts to myself.  It's not easy to do so, but putting those thoughts on someone who's done nothing wrong is terribly unfair to them.

Something stood out to me in all of this: You said your partner apologises.  What has he done which he needs to apologise for?  

Have you got a therapist who you can share your thoughts with (and work on them) instead of putting this on your partner?

Edited May 8, 2020 by basil67

[June00]

33 minutes ago, basil67 said:

While I don't have retroactive jealousy, I do have irrational thoughts at times.  To avoid killing my relationship, I keep the thoughts to myself.  It's not easy to do so, but putting those thoughts on someone who's done nothing wrong is terribly unfair to them.

Something stood out to me in all of this: You said your partner apologises.  What has he done which he needs to apologise for?  

Have you got a therapist who you can share your thoughts with (and work on them) instead of putting this on your partner?

He apologizes for how it makes me feel but it clear the real meaning is that he apologizes for "doing something wrong that makes me feel that way". Like I said, I understand that it is irrational and he doesn't need to apologize because he didn't do anything wrong or he didn't do anything to hurt me. I attribute it to maybe him not knowing what else to do but apologize. I tend to keep it to myself 99% of the time but when it's unbearable I explode. Like I said, I am not delusional thinking I am right but my emotions overcome my rational self.

I have thought of talking about this with a profesional but I know myself (and I am very fearful) that it is something I might not be able to change ever, hence, why I have seriously discussed and constantly thought about ending m y relationship. Even so, if I do end it, I am even more scared that I will never be able to have a healthy relationship. 

[smackie9]

You have security issues. Every time you have anxiety about your bf he assures you and apologizes. He is enabling your behaviour. It’s a cycle that repeats itself over and over. Your feelings elevate, you go to him to take you back down etc It’s a coping mechanism. This is learned behaviour that most likely started in childhood.  How to reverse it? Therapy.

There is therapy that teaches you to retrain your brain. You can start reading books from Dr. Amen. His videos are pretty good too. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by smackie9

[basil67]

Yep, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy done by a psychologist can retrain the brain.  And if you've tried that and it doesn't work, there are meds.   Of course, most of us don't want to have to resort to meds, but they are a better choice than not living your life to the fullest.  

If you go to therapy, it would be also helpful to have your boyfriend learn another way to approach this which doesn't involve him apologising.  As Smackie said, he's enabling you at present.  I'm not a therapist, but even a response along the lines of "we've agreed to stop discussing this" when you raise it might be helpful.   When you don't have to rely on him to make yourself feel better, you will do a better job of learning to self soothe.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by basil67

[Poutrew]

You are in a relationship where the basic reality of your partner is driving you crazy, and by extension, him as well.  If this is something so deeply ingrained within your psyche that to change it would be to change who you are, then what do you have left? Ultimately, you might need to look for a BF who is also a virgin. There are guys out there who are virgins, but they don't go around advertising that fact too loudly for obvious reasons... 

[Emilie Jolie]

4 hours ago, June00 said:

the problem is when they want to be involved with me romantically, because then it does become my business and only then I have a saying and can judge.

Why are you granting yourself permission to judge your partner's past? You don't actually have any say in it other than to decide if your values are compatible. 

I don't know the exact details of my partner's sexual past. I assume it's quite a bit more colourful than mine, but it doesn't really bother me. I don't want the details because it has no bearing on how compatible we are as a couple (we do have our issues, but not this one).

My reasoning is this:

- Is he as faithful to me as I am to him?

-Are we compatible intimately?

-Does knowing the minutia of his sexual life serve any purpose in our own RL?

-Does he act secretive or cagey about aspects of his life that do matter to me?

If the scoreboard reads yes, yes, no and no, we are golden.

 

You are both in your early 20s, neither of you has any solid experience in long term relationships whatever his sexual past may be, this totally can be nipped in the bud. You've already recognised you have this problem, which is half the battle won imo.

You say you are not ready to seek professional help just now; even so, there are still common sense steps you can do immediately that are within your control.

You could try setting clear boundaries with your bf, for instance. You've been together 2 years, it's not a new RL, you should be comfortable explaining to him you believe you suffer from retroactive jealousy. This will make it easier for him to put your thought process into perspective (he really shouldn't be blaming himself at all) and put a stop to any conversation about his past as soon as they arise. That is your problem to deal with, not his.

Put bluntly, you also need to check your ego (sorry!) - there is no special virtue in having 'waited', it's not making you a better person than him. It's not giving you free licence to snoop for sure. 

There is a lot of reading material available online about retroactive jealousy sufferers who successfully managed to regain control of their thought processes - it may be worth getting inspiration from them. This could give you the impetus you need to seek counselling from a professional who knows how to best navigate retroactive jealousy.

 

[elaine567]

Two problems

1 Jealousy, pure and simple and that often stems from insecurity about ones own worth, or territorial feelings around a partner
You want to banish the competition as you fear losing your bf.
But here you can never banish the "competition" of his past lovers as they are ever present, you cannot rewrite the past.

2. Judgement - you kept yourself "clean and pure". He didn't.
He makes you feel dirty associating with him. 
In your eyes he is basically not "good enough" for you.
You are angry with him for not being the man you want him to be.  Hence the fights and the passive aggression.
But with his past, he was never going to be that man and he can never be that man, as again you cannot rewrite the past.
His "sins" can never be erased.

Yes your reaction is  a bit off kilter, but being jealous and intolerant of the past of others, is not uncommon.
The difference being is that many do not stick around for 2 years, tying to tolerate the intolerable.
Early doors they filter out the people they feel have been "too promiscuous" for them.
It happens every day. Men and women do this.
Yes you could go to therapy for years to try to fit a square peg into a round hole or you could just go looking for a man that you do think is "good enough". 

[schlumpy]

5 hours ago, Poutrew said:

Ultimately, you might need to look for a BF who is also a virgin. There are guys out there who are virgins, but they don't go around advertising that fact too loudly for obvious reasons... 

Like with like?

I don't see why that wouldn't work. Good suggestion.

[miranda561]

15 hours ago, June00 said:

I've read my share about articles regarding retroactive jealousy and looked at forums plenty to try to deal with it. The thing is, first off, it is generally a man that comes with the problem and more often than not I see enough people being aggressive, often saying "get over it", "it's insulting to your girlfriend", "its toxic masculinity/misogyny for judging", blah blah. I understand where they're coming from, but actually dealing with it is far more complex than just pinpointing someone as a slut. As someone that is dealing with it, it is more about how we feel than what we classify the other person. The person might be amazing and we understand that to the point that it is conflicting and so, we look for other's help.

The second thing I notice is the common: think about your past, unless you're a VIRGIN- and that's when I stop reading. First of, I'm a woman, second of, I don't have a sexual past. So when that argument is used I suddenly feel hopeless because I cannot relate to a frase that is used to make the person be empathetic and be aware of how it would be if now their partner was judging them.

While I haven't had a professional diagnose it, I feel that it is retroactive jealousy with OCD tendencies, but correct me if I am wrong.

----------------------------CONTEXT-------------------------------------------------

I am in a relationship of 2 years now and I've had these thoughts since the beginning but I figured I would have gotten over them by now, -they didn't-, and it is affecting it. No, I didn't grow up in a hyper religious or super conservative household or school, I blame it more on my idealization of relationships since childhood where it never occurred to me that someone else might have been with other people. I am fully aware that it might have something to do with insecurities and immaturity (I am placing the problem fully on myself and I want to work on it).

I am older than him and I am 23, and while I had PLENTY of opportunities to have sex, like many other people, I never did even when I was really curious. I also don't think it's wrong, I believe that people can do whatever they please and if they want to have sex with a thousand people it is their life and business, the problem is when they want to be involved with me romantically, because then it does become my business and only then I have a saying and can judge.

It feels so strange, I can't avoid thinking about in the weirdest times and it only makes me picture it and overthink the common question "with how many other people have you done it too"? I put faces on them because of my unnecessary and unhealthy snooping, and it makes me feel dirty. Commonly I think "if I waited and it wasn't hard why couldn't you"?

I get reclusive and even passive aggressive sometimes, I fight and create a whole tragedy out of something so insignificant. He apologizes and is never angry, which makes me feel so bad because I' the one acting irrational but even if my logical self understands this, the emotional side overcomes it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am genuinely trying to find a solution, it makes me cry and feel anxious and I understand that it is damaging my relationship and I am the one causing it. I am at that point that I am considering ending the relationship because I cannot deal with it. So if anyone has any help or thoughts I would be really thankful.

Ive had thoughts similar to you in that why could this guy not have kept it in his pants. And restrain himself like me. But i wouldn't even go there, in terms of a relations hip. If I find the number is too high for my liking  i would just leave it.

I'll be honest though your behaviour within the context of your relations hip is very unhealthy for yourself and your partner. You simply cannot keep referring back to his past and start acting irrationally based on that. 

At this point i would say the best solution  would be to end the relationship and work on yourself. As really and truly it is not fair on your partner.

Or simply find someone who as another poster said is a virgin. But i still think either way you need to work on your insecurities. 

[oldtruck]

this is why you do not talk about past relationships with your new partner.

you cannot be jealous of what you do not know.

what matters is what your partner is doing now with you.

[roadside_romeo]

Well my advice will be take time and instead of break up try to make some distance or you can do no contact to understand what you want really. Cause, if you end a relationship, then things will be change completely. Then if you want to reconcile it will be tough for you. Also their is no guarantee that, your next person will be different. If you don't want then just then end it. currently you are dealing with relationship issues, once you both were broke, then you have to deal with both relationship and breakup issues. It's a circle. You can not change the fate. But you can change your thought by looking what's going on around the world. 

[basil67]

18 hours ago, Poutrew said:

If this is something so deeply ingrained within your psyche that to change it would be to change who you are, then what do you have left? 

What the OP would have left is a more mature version of herself.

We all change who we are as we experience personal growth.  At 35, I was quite different to who I was at 25.  And thank god for that.  Likewise, in my mid 50's I'm quite different again.   Being unwilling to grow and change as we learn more about ourselves and life will leave a person stunted.

Edited May 9, 2020 by basil67

[Poutrew]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

What the OP would have left is a more mature version of herself.

We all change who we are as we experience personal growth.  At 35, I was quite different to who I was at 25.  And thank god for that.  Likewise, in my mid 50's I'm quite different again.   Being unwilling to grow and change as we learn more about ourselves and life will leave a person stunted.

Slow change brought about by increasing maturity,  reasoned education, and spiritual growth, is called wisdom. Sudden change brought about by conformal peer pressure to be like everyone else has another name: Trauma. You are suggesting she throw away something she considers precious. Just so she can be like all the other fast girls who've been having all sorts of sexual experiences since they were 12 years old... It takes a strong person to go against the flock and I for one wish her luck. Shades of Jonathan Livingston Seagull... 

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, Poutrew said:

Slow change brought about by increasing maturity,  reasoned education, and spiritual growth, is called wisdom. Sudden change brought about by conformal peer pressure to be like everyone else has another name: Trauma. You are suggesting she throw away something she considers precious. Just so she can be like all the other fast girls who've been having all sorts of sexual experiences since they were 12 years old... It takes a strong person to go against the flock and I for one wish her luck. Shades of Jonathan Livingston Seagull... 

Ohhhhh....when you were talking about changing "something so ingrained" in her psyche, I thought you meant her retroactive jealousy and that this is part of who she is and she shouldn't address  the problem.  

   

Edited May 9, 2020 by basil67

[Emilie Jolie]

@June00, do you think leaving your bf and seeking someone with a similar sexual past to yours will resolve your retroactive jealousy issue? 

It's just that what you describe (invasive irrational thoughts, interrogating your poor bf to the point where he has to apologise, snooping obsessively) are really not healthy at all. Your bf is a very patient guy indeed. Are you still a virgin after 2 years in a RL with him and if you break up with him on this basis, will you explain to him that's because you can't deal with his sexual past? 

[ExpatInItaly]

On 5/8/2020 at 5:09 AM, June00 said:

While I haven't had a professional diagnose it, I feel that it is retroactive jealousy with OCD tendencies, but correct me if I am wrong.

Do you notice these tendencies in other areas of your life, OP?

[kendahke]

On 5/7/2020 at 11:09 PM, June00 said:

Commonly I think "if I waited and it wasn't hard why couldn't you"?

Do you find this mindset gives you the permission you need to be judgmental about how they proceeded in their life and that you're somehow better than they are because you chose not to explore?

Quote

I have thought of talking about this with a profesional but I know myself (and I am very fearful) that it is something I might not be able to change ever, hence, why I have seriously discussed and constantly thought about ending m y relationship. Even so, if I do end it, I am even more scared that I will never be able to have a healthy relationship. 

Again,  choosing not to explore and keeping judgmental tendencies--you've judged a professional to not be able to assist you in changing your mindset. Could it be because you get something out of not changing that mindset?

 

[Lotsgoingon]

You know ... lots of folks have this issue ... so you might as well deal with it now ... you'll work your way through it. I don't think it helps to say "I know this is irrational." I get what you mean: you're mature enough to grasp that logic isn't driving your jealousy. But ... if you're having strong jealous feelings--retroactive jealousy--that's a sign that you got work to do on yourself. And the work we have to do on ourselves is always seemingly irrational. 

The time I felt this was oddly enough with a woman that I didn't really like, who was distant. In other words, I was dating the wrong person. There's a chance that your jealousy stems from a lack of reassurance from your partner. I don't mean official reassurance. I don't mean him mouthing the words that he appreciates you. I mean, I'm wondering where you FEEL his overwhelming affection for you? Do you feel that he sees you as a unique treasure ... who has different experiences than he does but experiences that are rich and go into making you wonderful. 

If he is even the slightest bit distant ... the slightest bit hesitant in complimenting you ... the slightest bit slow in leaning in to connect with you ... then totally makes sense that you would feel the retro jealousy. 

This is a tricky point, I must say ... because sometimes in early relationships, we think things are normal because there is no outright abuse ... and later we might learn that OMG, I totally didn't feel comfortable with x habit of a partner, Y habit ... Z kind of thinking.

Would you say your bf is wildly passionate that he has you as a partner? 

[June00]

On 5/9/2020 at 3:24 AM, Emilie Jolie said:

@June00, do you think leaving your bf and seeking someone with a similar sexual past to yours will resolve your retroactive jealousy issue? 

It's just that what you describe (invasive irrational thoughts, interrogating your poor bf to the point where he has to apologise, snooping obsessively) are really not healthy at all. Your bf is a very patient guy indeed. Are you still a virgin after 2 years in a RL with him and if you break up with him on this basis, will you explain to him that's because you can't deal with his sexual past? 

First, I know my behavior is not healthy, that's why I am looking for advice and yes, he is very patient.

I failed to include that we don't fight about this every single day or I'm just fighting with him without giving him the reason. We have talked about this issues pretty much since the beginning of the relationship because since the very beginning I had problems to deal with it and I was aware that just lashing at him out of nowhere or keeping it in and let it drive me insane in silence wasn't the way either, and I have explained thoroughly how it makes me feel plus my unhealthy patters.

He knows, but I find it difficult to end the relationship because I have discussed it with him, giving him my reasons, always making sure to say "it's not wrong and you can do whatever you want, your past self did whatever you wanted and that is okay and a lot of people don't care, but just like you can do whatever you want I can decide what to have in my life". He's been very persisten to make it work despite my "episodes" so at this point I am seriously thinking to stop listening to his own reasons of how we should work it out when I feel I can't.

[June00]

On 5/9/2020 at 5:24 AM, ExpatInItaly said:

Do you notice these tendencies in other areas of your life, OP?

I don't know if this falls in the same category necessarily, but I am very consistent with how I look, I don't want to use the word "obsessive" but it is a constant with my physical image as well, always remaining under 110 lb and having a very precise idea of how I want to look.

[June00]

On 5/10/2020 at 6:30 PM, kendahke said:

Do you find this mindset gives you the permission you need to be judgmental about how they proceeded in their life and that you're somehow better than they are because you chose not to explore?

Again,  choosing not to explore and keeping judgmental tendencies--you've judged a professional to not be able to assist you in changing your mindset. Could it be because you get something out of not changing that mindset?

 

Like I said, people can do whatever they want and it is no one's business but who was involved, so no, it doesn't give me permission to be judgmental about how they proceed with their life. If a friend, family member, acquaintance, co-worker, etc, has had sex with a million people it's their business (though I still l think that people are entitled to their own opinion regarding what other people do it is not their place to judge - and no, if it is one of these people I don't care and knowing it doesn't make me think of them better or worse).

But I do believe that I get to feel positive or negative, and decide, when that person wants to be involved with me romantically and thus, eventually, sexually. Just like a lot of people don't get involve with people for their own reasons. I'll give an example I experienced, some people didn't want to be involved with me because I didn't want to have sex (and they're in their right because I can't force anyone to be in a relationship with me regardless of their reason). I didn't call them shallow, I didn't think of them as just looking for a quickie, I respected their reasons if they thought sex was an essential part of a romantic relationship in their eyes, but I didn't comply since I didn't agree, and I don't owe sex to anyone and it is something that should be done out of wanting to.

I am judging myself and not a professional. I live in fear that I cannot change a mindset even if I want to. I understand it damages me because I feel terrible about it with my current relationship, read it as more my own fear because I know how difficult it is for me to change.

[Emilie Jolie]

2 hours ago, June00 said:

I find it difficult to end the relationship because I have discussed it with him, giving him my reasons, always making sure to say "it's not wrong and you can do whatever you want, your past self did whatever you wanted and that is okay and a lot of people don't care, but just like you can do whatever you want I can decide what to have in my life". He's been very persisten to make it work despite my "episodes" so at this point I am seriously thinking to stop listening to his own reasons of how we should work it out when I feel I can't

To be blunt, I'm struggling to understand why you're still with him when you've made it clear to him nothing will change your mind. You're already not listening to his reasons for how you should work it out, because you don't think you can. 

Unless you stop talking about it with him altogether and learn to regulate your thought process of your own accord - you give no sign of wanting to do that though, you seem to believe you are entirely justified in thinking what you're thinking - and since his past can't magically disappear, the choice is break-up now or inflict more misery on each other. 

Not saying it's an easy decision to make, but at this point a break-up sounds like the kindest outcome. 

Now you know you can only deal with guys who have a similar sexual past to yours, use that as a filter for the next RL. You don't have to change your mindset, but you shouldn't impose that on your current guy.

[basil67]

You've mentioned a few times that you're frightened that you can't get on top of the retroactive jealousy.  But what is stopping you from at least trying some behavioural therapy?   Is it that you don't want to stop feeling this way?

[oldtruck]

unless you are a virgin and never have been kissed

and only want to marry the same

whatever past your partner has should not cause retroactive jealousy issues

normal to feel a bit of jealousy for a brief second then forgotten never

allowing yourself to think about it again.

obsessing points out the need for help.