Is this normal for guys?

[miranda561]

12 minutes ago, Beachead said:

When someone is interested in being with you, there's always forward momentum.  Their treatment of you is a large reflection of their interest and investment in you and a possible relationship.  There are exceptions to that and when those exceptions come about, you'll be okay with it because their prior actions/behaviour inspire confidence and trust.  They keep you in the loop and let you know what's going on...because they want to be with you and won't jeopardize the chances of that happening, because they value that outcome.    It's when there's no interest or uncertainty in the other person's mind, is when obstacle after obstacle gets placed in way and you feel things are complicated, confusing, frustrating.  That's when you feel "Something's off" or you feel like you are being generally kept at arms length.  These periods of no talking won't typically happen with a interested person.   

Im just saying the length of time where they don't talk..e.g 3-4 days is normal to me. As I've also done this myself. Doesn't mean my interest is low in the person.

 

[Beachead]

@miranda651

That's true for you and there's value in that information but the OP can also benefit from some general trends as well for guidance.  It's why I'm not just bringing in my own experiences into my advice.  I'm bringing in the experiences of many friends, the experiences of those I've conversed with both on LS/other forums and many other experiences I've read.  I'm addressing the general trend I've seen over the years; the more people are like this, the less investment/interest there is.  It's not a guaranteed rule,  but its a pattern of behaviour that generally exists and one should be aware of.  Given this guy the OP likes, has consistently been on and off with her,  its far more likely he's following this pattern.  Consistent is the key info here and he consistently hot and cold.  

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Beachead

[miranda561]

33 minutes ago, Beachead said:

@miranda651

That's true for you and there's value in that information but the OP can also benefit from some general trends as well for guidance.  It's why I'm not just bringing in my own experiences into my advice.  I'm bringing in the experiences of many friends, the experiences of those I've conversed with both on LS/other forums and many other experiences I've read.  I'm addressing the general trend I've seen over the years; the more people are like this, the less investment/interest there is.  It's not a guaranteed rule,  but its a pattern of behaviour that generally exists and one should be aware of.  Given this guy the OP likes, has consistently been on and off with her,  its far more likely he's following this pattern.  Consistent is the key info here and he consistently hot and cold.  

 

You could be right but you could also be wrong.

Ultimately their needs in a relationship are different  i guess. 

She needs to speak to him about it and decide if she is ok with  those continuous  breaks in between

I had a friend in a similar situation and she broke it off because she said the guy wasnt contacting her enough i.e. (every  three four days he would message her but she wanted to hear from him every day) . When she left him  he started messaging her trying to get her back. I think especially with younger guys in general (im assuming op is young) ..they tend to be more on the casual side and are more interested in seeing the person and physical intimacy( as opposed to calling and texting every single day)..but again i do recognise i cannot  generalise 

Edited May 18, 2020 by miranda561

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, salparadise said:

I don't see it as game-playing any more than the multitude of strategies in the female playbook... feigning demure, ugh. They pretend disinterest and play aloof for the exact same reasons. They create suspicion  that there may be other suitors to trigger jealously and a sense of urgency. They withhold physical affection (contrary to their own desires) with the notion that he has to earn it. The fact that something is elusive or unattainable motivates. This is basic human nature, and the basis of women's ideas about getting men to pursue against resistance, as opposed to creating balance and expressing interest themselves. I don't like any of it personally, but it happens all the time. Old school playbook.

Women say they want a man who is willing to invest first and not push for sex too soon, but if a guy isn't touchy feely or going for a kiss she wonders what's wrong with him. And conversely, a guy may push for sex on the first date, but if he gets it he may loose interest immediately after. 

What women say they want is often not what works. But one thing I do know is that being too available or too easy is not a winning strategy for men or women in the early stages. Intrigue stimulates desire. 

No games means no games...so I for one meant no games when I said no games...

I mean that may not have been directed at me but that "I don't see it as any more than..." I don't know. Do two wrongs now make a right? Not attacking, just saying, I can't see why one person doing something ridiculous means the other person should. 

As far as that "...what works..." comment at the bottom...again...I keep hearing about what "works..." and what women "really want..." in the same breath as explanations about how effed up relationships are, so apparently what works...doesn't.

ANYTHING can "stimulate desire." For about two seconds. We have all seen how well that can work out...desire "stimulated" between two horrendously mismatched people, and the potential fallout of that. In this case it's even more bent by desire the "stimulated" party being someone who apparently isn't turned on unless she or he is being neglected, which is just...oh man, Dr. Freud, paging Dr. Freud...and who needs to chase someone who thinks he or she is somehow not worth someone's time. This ought to work out well...strong beginning there...

How many great relationships, realistically, are we imagining have started with artificial "stimulation of desire" based on games and fakery? After that, people just became themselves and accepted one another that way - as now different people - and it all worked out??? ...

I mean people can do what they want. But, well...strategies, games...who can keep that up, and who wants to win the "prize" of a person who only wants what s/he can't have, is shallow, easily led, reactive and fickle?  

I mean if so...have at it...it takes the most insecure out of the pool so the adults can match with one another. It may just be a good thing in that way. I find the "games" to basically be usury, at least as described. I haven't ever really seen that work out well. It's two incredibly insecure people making-pretend in order to get laid and this is going to be something positive at the end of it all? Just...okay then.  Well, so...good luck out there, everyone.  You know?

Look, man, I'm not trying to come down on you, but I see this bad advice being given and I see people only being harmed more and more by it. Nobody ever seems to wind up happy. It isn't as if this "advice" is new. People have been following it all to the letter particularly since PUA and female "rules" or whatever have been mass tossed around with the internet AND relationships as you say have been tanking since that time so I'm not sure how this is all seen as, hey, these games are how it's all going to get better.  Remember that definition of insanity...

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Woggle]

How many great relationships exist period these days? Not many. The best most people can hope for is an intense period of chemistry and limerence and push and pull does stimulate that.

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, Beachead said:

When someone is interested in being with you, there's always forward momentum.  Their treatment of you is a large reflection of their interest and investment in you and a possible relationship.  There are exceptions to that and when those exceptions come about, you'll be okay with it because their prior actions/behaviour inspire confidence and trust.  They keep you in the loop and let you know what's going on...because they want to be with you and won't jeopardize the chances of that happening, because they value that outcome.    It's when there's no interest or uncertainty in the other person's mind, is when obstacle after obstacle gets placed in way and you feel things are complicated, confusing, frustrating.  That's when you feel "Something's off" or you feel like you are being generally kept at arms length.  These periods of no talking won't typically happen with a interested person.   

This. It's really so simple.

[CaliforniaGirl]

23 minutes ago, Woggle said:

How many great relationships exist period these days? Not many. The best most people can hope for is an intense period of chemistry and limerence and push and pull does stimulate that.

I don't think this is a very good excuse to play games.

If a person is a quality person and wants a quality relationship, you're never going to settle for this anyway...so I guess it's moot. You're the ones who will be holding out for more. Not hoping some insecure mess will come along that you can trick and then "stimulate" for a minute.

People, my gosh.  Just...   ...two of those. Maybe more.

The whole "stimulated" thing. I keep envisioning someone snapping on a glove and reaching underneath a bull that's pinioned in a metal pen or something. 

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

44 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

You could be right but you could also be wrong.

Ultimately their needs in a relationship are different  i guess. 

She needs to speak to him about it and decide if she is ok with  those continuous  breaks in between

I had a friend in a similar situation and she broke it off because she said the guy wasnt contacting her enough i.e. (every  three four days he would message her but she wanted to hear from him every day) . When she left him  he started messaging her trying to get her back. I think especially with younger guys in general (im assuming op is young) ..they tend to be more on the casual side and are more interested in seeing the person and physical intimacy( as opposed to calling and texting every single day)..but again i do recognise i cannot  generalise 

See...this is the idiocy. He WANTED to speak to her. A lot. He didn't want to lose her. When she wasn't there he missed her.

So what did he do?

Ignored her, of course.

Until she was gone. At which time he had to go entirely the other way...begging, basically.

Yeah. That whole "be scarce" thing works like a charm. 

[miranda561]

21 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

See...this is the idiocy. He WANTED to speak to her. A lot. He didn't want to lose her. When she wasn't there he missed her.

So what did he do?

Ignored her, of course.

Until she was gone. At which time he had to go entirely the other way...begging, basically.

Yeah. That whole "be scarce" thing works like a charm. 

I know! But this is why i mentioned younger guys ( specifically under 35) unfortunately in my age group 😒 ..they just tend to be clueless 😂😂

She had enough by then  it was too late.

I think he thought  she would be there forever and took her for granted.

The scarce  thing doesnt  work unless the woman has a lack of self respect and is fine constantly chasing the guy

Edited May 18, 2020 by miranda561

[CaliforniaGirl]

9 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

I know! But this is why i mentioned younger guys ( specifically under 35) ..they just tend to be clueless 😂😂

She had enough by then  it was too late.

I think he thought  she would be there forever and took her for granted.

The scarce  thing doesnt  work unless the woman has a lack of self respect and is fine constantly chasing the guy

Yes, this is another reason this stuff just never seems to work. It always requires at least one chaser, one person who just isn't satisfied. That person eventually becomes either obessive and effed up, or just leaves and then it's the formerly chased who feels abandoned and is now chasing a person who no longer wants THAT person.

It is literally never a happy situation, ever. Where's the part where "it works"? Somebody's getting laid in there occasionally? That's even worse because feelings are involved...and other things, potentially...like pregnancy...or STIs. I mean it's not like those things can't happen in a committed relationship but if they do it's a whole hell of a lot easier to deal with them when the people involved have at least a seventh grade or higher level of maturity and aren't crippled with low self-esteem and weird "I only want you if you abandon me" issues.

I don't see the upside except a bunch of orgasms and that could be had with one cell phone, one hand and NONE of the drama.

Just literally none of this stuff works, it's never a fully happy situation. I hate to harp on it but I see this bad advice being given over and over, maybe one random person comes out of the woodwork to claim it works for him (usually it's a guy for whatever reason) but we don't know the guy, who knows if that's true? All we really know is we've watched this crap for ourselves and seen the fallout a jillion times, the only time "a chase" ever really works is when it's a playful thing where obviously there IS interest there and it's more a push-pull flirtation.

Not literally creating games to "create interest" where there was none there, by pushing the buttons of insecure people.

I hate seeing this advice and envisioning people heading for the collective toilet, it always ends pretty much in misery for everybody.

Edited May 18, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[miranda561]

37 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Yes, this is another reason this stuff just never seems to work. It always requires at least one chaser, one person who just isn't satisfied. That person eventually becomes either obessive and effed up, or just leaves and then it's the formerly chased who feels abandoned and is now chasing a person who no longer wants THAT person.

It is literally never a happy situation, ever. Where's the part where "it works"? Somebody's getting laid in there occasionally? That's even worse because feelings are involved...and other things, potentially...like pregnancy...or STIs. I mean it's not like those things can't happen in a committed relationship but if they do it's a whole hell of a lot easier to deal with them when the people involved have at least a seventh grade or higher level of maturity and aren't crippled with low self-esteem and weird "I only want you if you abandon me" issues.

I don't see the upside except a bunch of orgasms and that could be had with one cell phone, one hand and NONE of the drama.

Just literally none of this stuff works, it's never a fully happy situation. I hate to harp on it but I see this bad advice being given over and over, maybe one random person comes out of the woodwork to claim it works for him (usually it's a guy for whatever reason) but we don't know the guy, who knows if that's true? All we really know is we've watched this crap for ourselves and seen the fallout a jillion times, the only time "a chase" ever really works is when it's a playful thing where obviously there IS interest there and it's more a push-pull flirtation.

Not literally creating games to "create interest" where there was none there, by pushing the buttons of insecure people.

I hate seeing this advice and envisioning people heading for the collective toilet, it always ends pretty much in misery for everybody.

Have people actually given that type of advice across this forum. Terrible advice 🤔

I think there has to be a significant amount of interest for sure for it to ever work. 

But either way it gets so boring after a while. Its better if people are just upfront with one another and communicate often enough for the other party to stay satisfied. I think i need to take my own advice though 😂.

If the guy i mentioned earlier ( with regards to my own situation didnt think a 100% he was an option before he certainly will now, with my month of silence) (oops)😳

I've been too busy on here giving others advice whilst neglecting my own situations 😂

Edited May 18, 2020 by miranda561

[d0nnivain]

Just because we have the technological ability to be connected 24/7 does not mean we are obligated to stay chained to our phones.  

My college roommate called me the other night.  I was watching a movie & preferred to do that rather then stop & talk to her so I let it go to VM.  I called her back the next day, 14 hours later.  Doesn't mean I don't care about her. It's about priorities.  Nobody wants somebody who blows up their phone every 10 minutes.  Get a life.   

[Woggle]

I hate games as much as anybody else on here. If it were up to me relationships would be much more sincere and honest but they aren't and while I don't agree I can understand the mentality of somebody who feels they have to play games in order to avoid getting played themselves. People who play these games are a sad product of the times.

[miranda561]

21 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Just because we have the technological ability to be connected 24/7 does not mean we are obligated to stay chained to our phones.  

My college roommate called me the other night.  I was watching a movie & preferred to do that rather then stop & talk to her so I let it go to VM.  I called her back the next day, 14 hours later.  Doesn't mean I don't care about her. It's about priorities.  Nobody wants somebody who blows up their phone every 10 minutes.  Get a life.   

I agree  to a certain extent. I cant really not since i don't keep in touch with people 24/7.

But looking at it from the perspective of someone who is in a relationship or the like...they probably see it as their significant other has some form of obligation to keep in contact with them. To whatever degree it is..

When my friend was annoyed that the guy hadnt replied to her in three days..i just couldnt help but find it funny. ( because to me what is a few days). But i guess those were her expectations

[miranda561]

23 minutes ago, Woggle said:

I hate games as much as anybody else on here. If it were up to me relationships would be much more sincere and honest but they aren't and while I don't agree I can understand the mentality of somebody who feels they have to play games in order to avoid getting played themselves. People who play these games are a sad product of the times.

But how can you agree with that mentality they need to play games as opposed to outlining what they want from someone.. 

Its highly immature and their logic is deluded since most of the time it doesn't really work.. its not high school.

[Beachead]

@miranda561 @Woggle @CaliforniaGirl

Woggle's just pointing out that there are many people in the dating culture, who resort to such tactics to get with you.  He's right.  The dating world is filled with people like this...and yes, its immature.  Also, yes, people do stuff like this because they're insecure with themselves and have likely banked most of their worth (If not all) onto the amount of attention and affection they can get from someone (Or many people) to the point where they sell out their values to get it.

Took me 30 years to understand, if you want a best shot at falling into a healthy relationship, then you've got to learn to let go of wanting to be in one.  Period.   And it's not an easy thing to grasp or get.  You have to become okay with being on your own and that you may possibly be alone for the rest of your life.  When I say that, most people want to tune me out or turn away because it scares them.   But once you embrace that possibility and become okay with it, your mind will open up to the 'Now what' part.   Its in that alone time, that you learn about who you are and what you want you want for yourself.

You start establishing the correct boundaries and you begin choosing the right people and the right things your life.  These right choices give back to you in powerful ways.  Love, accomplishments, enrichment.  And if you're genuinely doing what you want in your life, it's going to bring out your best-self.   You'll be passionate about what you're doing so it'll bring your focus.  It'll enrich you and the accomplishments you make, will give back to you in ways that boost your confidence and your belief in yourself. When you speak on your life, you'll have things to talk about and you'll smile and glow from it.  That natural good vibe is attractive and people will gravitate towards it and feel attracted to it.  They are able to dilute the negative impact of rejection, through personal fulfillment and purpose and as a result no longer need relationships to feel lovable.  The relationship is no longer their entire life but a part of their life, as a great bonus.

- Beach

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Beachead

[salparadise]

5 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Look, man, I'm not trying to come down on you, but I see this bad advice being given and I see people only being harmed more and more by it. Nobody ever seems to wind up happy. It isn't as if this "advice" is new. People have been following it all to the letter particularly since PUA and female "rules" or whatever have been mass tossed around with the internet AND relationships as you say have been tanking since that time so I'm not sure how this is all seen as, hey, these games are how it's all going to get better. 

Hey CaliforniaGirl, I don't feel like I'm being attacked or anything. You obviously feel strongly, and I mostly agree with you. I'd much rather have an open, honest, balanced relationship or dating experience. I am always advocating openness, equality and reciprocity in the realm of gender relations. So, a few comments...

First, a lot of what you seem to be attributing to me in this response are not my words at all, but things said by others. I think you're lumping us together and assuming that we're the same, as in a "you people..." kind of way. Not cool.

Secondly, I was supporting Woggle's statement––that it's better to err on the side of calling less often than too often. If a woman rolls her eyes and says, "I can't believe he's calling AGAIN, sheesh, this is the 4th time today", that guy is shooting himself in the foot. She's going to see him as a clingy, insecure amoeba.

Thirdly, there is going to be an average contact frequency, and his preference may be a bit different from hers. She's not automatically correct by virtue of being female. His preference is equally valid. And, unless he's intentionally phukking with her mind and emotions, doing what he feels appropriate is not playing games. Presumably she has his number... oh, that's right... it wouldn't be proper––or strategically advantageous––for HER to reach out if she wants to talk. He might get the idea that she's into him! The horror!

As far as women telling you what they want, but not what works goes... just think about it. A man who is compliant and always does exactly as the woman asks isn't going to make her wet. His sissy butt is going to be on the curb. I had a girlfriend actually tell me once, that one of the things she liked about me is that I had no problem asserting myself... iow, standing up and not taking her BS, of which she had aplenty.  She had a strong personality, and she was bored of men who when told to jump, asked how high.

Okay, I'm done. And I'd love to have a nice woman who doesn't play any games. I am taking referrals.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by salparadise

[Woggle]

Beached is 100% right. The best way to find a happy and successful relationship that lasts is to just live your life. In the process of doing so you come across other people living their lives instead of playing the game. There are two many people these days who treat dating and relationships as game to be won against the other side instead of a way to find a good partner. I believe even if you are looking for casual sex there is a certain of respect another human being should be shown but that is not how many people operate these days. Men and women in large numbers pretty much hate each other these days and that is why you see people playing games and trying to win instead of trying to connect.

In the rare cases when two healthy who don't view dating as gender warfare tend to link up and there is attraction and connection it is usually because they are living life and happen to cross paths. The dating scene is just horrid and turns healthy people toxic after they have been chewed up and spit out one too many times.

[Gr8fuln2020]

On 5/12/2020 at 6:46 AM, softball88 said:

I'm having an issue. So this guy i talked to last Friday, said he would talk to me sometime the next day. That day rolls around and nothing from him. It's now been about 4 days since talking to him. Still, nothing. Is it normal for guys to go a few days without texting someone? We haven't only texted. We've seen each other in person plenty of times and he's always acted happy to see me. Why on Earth would he not talk to me for days? He's done this before. He'll go a few days then he'll talk to me about every day for the next 3-4 days. I sent him a message the other day and it still hasn't been read. We're not together. But I like him and he claims to like me. So what's the deal? Is this normal behavior for a guy? 

Does this happen frequently? Yes. Is this normal? Depends. Is this a sign that he is legit or not hiding something? NOPE. This is a sign of someone who is in another relationship or you are only one option, or frankly, not a priority. Anyone who doesn't get back to you in a timely fashion, reasonably, just doesn't see you as a priority. Especially now when we all use the technology most of spend exorbitant amounts for. 3-4 Days and you think he or she is really into you? Pfft. 🙄

Edited May 19, 2020 by Gr8fuln2020

[miranda561]

3 hours ago, Woggle said:

Beached is 100% right. The best way to find a happy and successful relationship that lasts is to just live your life. In the process of doing so you come across other people living their lives instead of playing the game. There are two many people these days who treat dating and relationships as game to be won against the other side instead of a way to find a good partner. I believe even if you are looking for casual sex there is a certain of respect another human being should be shown but that is not how many people operate these days. Men and women in large numbers pretty much hate each other these days and that is why you see people playing games and trying to win instead of trying to connect.

In the rare cases when two healthy who don't view dating as gender warfare tend to link up and there is attraction and connection it is usually because they are living life and happen to cross paths. The dating scene is just horrid and turns healthy people toxic after they have been chewed up and spit out one too many times.

So im guessing OLD is pointless then

[miranda561]

2 hours ago, Gr8fuln2020 said:

Does this happen frequently? Yes. Is this normal? Depends. Is this a sign that he is legit or not hiding something? NOPE. This is a sign of someone who is in another relationship or you are only one option, or frankly, not a priority. Anyone who doesn't get back to you in a timely fashion, reasonably, just doesn't see you as a priority. Especially now when we all use the technology most of spend exorbitant amounts for. 3-4 Days and you think he or she is really into you? Pfft. 🙄

Not all men are the same surely. Some are awkward, some like time to themselves and are introverted, some have busy lives and a career to be building. Just saying

[Woggle]

1 minute ago, miranda561 said:

So im guessing OLD is pointless then

Not 100% but is a minefield and you need nerves of steel to not let it make you depressed or bitter and hateful.

[miranda561]

Just now, Woggle said:

Not 100% but is a minefield and you need nerves of steel to not let it make you depressed or bitter and hateful.

I have the same problem as za dater. Im just not that into anyone. 🤔 its hard when all you have is an odd photo and the random conversation here nd there 

[salparadise]

6 hours ago, miranda561 said:

I have the same problem as za dater. Im just not that into anyone. 🤔 its hard when all you have is an odd photo and the random conversation here nd there

Brand new to OLD? I can give you a few pointers. I've been full circle. First, keep expectations low to nonexistent. You can only be disappointed if you expect too much. If you aren't good at reading people, and reading between the lines, don't do it. Don't try to meet a lot of people, and focus on authenticity as opposed to splash. Remember the norm is for everyone to be aiming over their head by 25 percent, so that makes for a lot of one-way interest. Keep it local and keep it real. Meaning, meet soon for coffee or a drink and don't invest in anyone until you're actually dating (after the 1st meet), no extended messaging. The idea is to use it only to identify a possibility and meet that person, while not getting caught up in the fantasy and game-playing aspects. Don't use Tinder, use Okcupid where there is a lot of info to go on, and pass on profiles if they don't bother to write a good essay or answer more than a few questions. Takes breaks often. 

[miranda561]

3 hours ago, salparadise said:

Brand new to OLD? I can give you a few pointers. I've been full circle. First, keep expectations low to nonexistent. You can only be disappointed if you expect too much. If you aren't good at reading people, and reading between the lines, don't do it. Don't try to meet a lot of people, and focus on authenticity as opposed to splash. Remember the norm is for everyone to be aiming over their head by 25 percent, so that makes for a lot of one-way interest. Keep it local and keep it real. Meaning, meet soon for coffee or a drink and don't invest in anyone until you're actually dating (after the 1st meet), no extended messaging. The idea is to use it only to identify a possibility and meet that person, while not getting caught up in the fantasy and game-playing aspects. Don't use Tinder, use Okcupid where there is a lot of info to go on, and pass on profiles if they don't bother to write a good essay or answer more than a few questions. Takes breaks often. 

I would say probably half a year. Only thing is now with the pandemic ( its gonna be difficult to meet anyone in person really.)

There is one guy he showed a lot of interest at the start and im going to admit i was a bit flaky with him..i wasnt consistently picking up his calls etc etc..and a couple times he said he knew nothing was going to get anywhere ( due to my behaviour). Anyway long story short im back in contact a few months later..have a 3 hour convo (a month ago).somewhere in the convo he says im behaving as if hes an option (and i go everyone's an option)..(regardless) he's like lets meet i said i don't mind.. and he told me to send another photo as he only has one of mine. And yeh that was a month back now..i didnt contact him since or send a photo. So its kind of my fault. But again i think how am i going to meet the guy with the current situations  u know

But i feel like he isn't a dud. Unlike a lot of people on the app. At least on a basic level he fits what im looking for. So don't  want to lose him as an option at the same time. But then how can i do that (while not being able to meet and also with my past flakyness hes going to expect a bit more this time round ). If that makes sense

Edited May 19, 2020 by miranda561