Should I bother with OLD?

[SweetCharity]

I'm hung up over a guy in LA. He's reiterated time and again he doesn't want a relationship and isn't capable of love. Yesterday we argued over his use of a thumbs up in texting instead of an actual response. I pointed out it was a little aloof and he snapped at me saying I was being insecure. 

Well... enough is enough. Maybe I should see what's out there. My mom says I need to try online dating. My sister found her husband through it. 

I know we're in a pandemic but there's only so many hobbies I can do. I'm lonely. I've been hanging onto something that isn't going to go anywhere. Maybe it'd be nice just to talk to someone who isn't my therapist. 

Is it worth it? I hate online dating. It all feels forced. But I need a reminder that there's other fish in the sea and I can do better. I'm conflicted. 

Thoughts?

[CaliforniaGirl]

Here's my opinion...take it for what it's worth, and as someone who doesn't have her entire life wrapped up, that may not be much, but I *have* observed a thing or two over the course of a lifetime...

Before OLD *or* analog (if you will, LOL) dating will work for you, you need to figure out why you want unavailable men. You're currently hung up on a man you've made sure you can never have. Not only did you chose a guy who's emotionally distant plus isn't very interested in you romantically, he's also a five-hour plane ride away. Check that out first. Really. And BTW, this is not all that uncommon. So many people have this sort of issue and it can be down to a lot of things, but I think pretty often it's because of a fugged up relationship early in life with a very important figure, probably a parent, who was never "all there" either physically or emotionally. Just one possibility but it could be a lot of things.

[SweetCharity]

58 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Here's my opinion...take it for what it's worth, and as someone who doesn't have her entire life wrapped up, that may not be much, but I *have* observed a thing or two over the course of a lifetime...

Before OLD *or* analog (if you will, LOL) dating will work for you, you need to figure out why you want unavailable men. You're currently hung up on a man you've made sure you can never have. Not only did you chose a guy who's emotionally distant plus isn't very interested in you romantically, he's also a five-hour plane ride away. Check that out first. Really. And BTW, this is not all that uncommon. So many people have this sort of issue and it can be down to a lot of things, but I think pretty often it's because of a fugged up relationship early in life with a very important figure, probably a parent, who was never "all there" either physically or emotionally. Just one possibility but it could be a lot of things.

I was sexually abused by a family member when I was 10. Then as an adult I was diagnosed with BPD. I know what the problem is but not how to fix it. I go to therapy, NA meetings. I'm trying to focus on my dreams too. I'm working on a short film. Still, that loneliness and dysfunctional relationships exist. I thought I was making progress when I broke up with my ex, who was emotionally abusive. Sigh. 

[Weezy1973]

36 minutes ago, SweetCharity said:

I was sexually abused by a family member when I was 10. Then as an adult I was diagnosed with BPD. I know what the problem is but not how to fix it. I go to therapy, NA meetings. I'm trying to focus on my dreams too. I'm working on a short film. Still, that loneliness and dysfunctional relationships exist. I thought I was making progress when I broke up with my ex, who was emotionally abusive. Sigh. 

BPD meaning Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar Disorder?

 

When childhood trauma is involved my experience is that often the issues (I.e unhealthy thoughts) run deep. Put another way, your instincts will lead to unhealthy outcomes. If your actions are based on your feelings, it will almost always lead to unhealthy outcomes.

So unfortunately there is no easy answer. To get into an emotionally healthy relationship, it will mean generally going against your instincts and realizing that your feelings are often unhelpful. You will need to constantly assess your thoughts with the question “is this thought helpful”? Is it moving you in a healthy direction? If it’s not healthy or helpful you’ll have to make sure not to act out. 
 

In short I don’t think online dating will help because right now you’re doing it for the wrong reasons. You’re doing it because you’re lonely and you’re trying to get over another guy. You’re using it as a coping mechanism and will almost assuredly end up with a bad outcome which then you’ll seek another coping mechanism for and so on and so on.

[SweetCharity]

36 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

BPD meaning Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar Disorder?

In short I don’t think online dating will help because right now you’re doing it for the wrong reasons. You’re doing it because you’re lonely and you’re trying to get over another guy. 

Borderline Personality Disorder. The symptoms lesson if I go practice dialectical behavioral therapy but obviously with the pandemic I haven't been able to go. 

I just went on Hinge and I'm depressed already.

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 hours ago, SweetCharity said:

I was sexually abused by a family member when I was 10. Then as an adult I was diagnosed with BPD. I know what the problem is but not how to fix it. I go to therapy, NA meetings. I'm trying to focus on my dreams too. I'm working on a short film. Still, that loneliness and dysfunctional relationships exist. I thought I was making progress when I broke up with my ex, who was emotionally abusive. Sigh. 

I'm crying for you. Don't let what was done to you continue to tell you, "accept more." Don't...don't...I know it's hard...but don't. I know you're lonely...I do get that. And...I'll bet you ARE making progress. Who's perfect? Nobody. Please don't beat yourself up on top of already being beaten up! You're facing something REALLY dark. You don't think that's amazing all by itself?

[SweetCharity]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I'm crying for you. Don't let what was done to you continue to tell you, "accept more." Don't...don't...I know it's hard...but don't. I know you're lonely...I do get that. And...I'll bet you ARE making progress. Who's perfect? Nobody. Please don't beat yourself up on top of already being beaten up! You're facing something REALLY dark. You don't think that's amazing all by itself?

Don't cry! 😢

Thank you so muck for your kind words. It's just so hard to change. 

[Realitysux]

16 hours ago, SweetCharity said:

Don't cry! 😢

Thank you so muck for your kind words. It's just so hard to change. 

I agree with not dating but what else can you do to get healthy conversations going through this virus. I need conversation too. 

[Weezy1973]

@SweetCharity it is very hard to change. We are essentially addicted to our thoughts whether they’re healthy or not. To  change means breaking that addiction which is really, really hard. 
 

But the good news is we can take actions regardless of the way we feel. We can eat healthy even when we crave junk food. We can exercise even when we’re feeling lazy. We can stop at one drink even when we feel like more. But we have to consciously do it which means being mindful - or aware of our thoughts.

 

But yes it’s really hard. But I think it’s really the best alternative. It’s short term pain for long term gain. Making difficult, but healthy decisions will pay dividends over time.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

22 hours ago, SweetCharity said:

I'm hung up over a guy in LA. He's reiterated time and again he doesn't want a relationship and isn't capable of love. Yesterday we argued over his use of a thumbs up in texting instead of an actual response. I pointed out it was a little aloof and he snapped at me saying I was being insecure. 

Well... enough is enough. Maybe I should see what's out there. My mom says I need to try online dating. My sister found her husband through it. 

I know we're in a pandemic but there's only so many hobbies I can do. I'm lonely. I've been hanging onto something that isn't going to go anywhere. Maybe it'd be nice just to talk to someone who isn't my therapist. 

Is it worth it? I hate online dating. It all feels forced. But I need a reminder that there's other fish in the sea and I can do better. I'm conflicted. 

Thoughts?

 

20 hours ago, SweetCharity said:

I was sexually abused by a family member when I was 10. Then as an adult I was diagnosed with BPD.... Still, that loneliness and dysfunctional relationships exist. I thought I was making progress when I broke up with my ex, who was emotionally abusive. Sigh. 

When done appropriately, OLD affords many the chance to create for themselves in REAL human prospects  the environment which affords the chance to play many of your social Aces  AND introduce a number of your flaws  while still keeping others interested.

 

Think of a fictitious, gorgeous woman whose body alone inspires completely inappropriate social approaches  by men throughout her in-person life ...  and now add to it the long-term effects of that fictitious person having been sexually abused by somebody in her early years.  Further complexify this fictitious character by assuring she has her head on her shoulders, and boasts a number of scholastic awards and achievements and a prominent career in whatever field drew her interest.

 

OLD gives even that sort of a person a playing field where she is in relative control and she can keep the pawing animals at a distance while at the same time introducing herself, her mind, and her flaws  to romantic prospects who in unique-from-her-perspective ways  are caused to recognize and take interest in her mind and achievements first, before only later initiating  those still interested to her striking physical presence.  (run-on sentence)

 

So many people out there  who you see every day, are also those who have been considerably wounded in one way or another  who, far too often in societal social settings, just can't get a fair shake because of the relative imbalance of their physical appeal and the probability that they need to take it slow, and develop considerable trust before being entirely capable of dating.

 

The "forced" feeling in OLD is a function of  (a ) not wanting to witness your own vulnerability  right there in front of your eyes  (which I agree, is challenging)

 

combined with (B ) -  the idiots who see and use OLD as nothing more than another 4 feet at the end of that long bar down at the corner watering hole...   I clicked on your pretty face, I stopped long enough to determine that I think  we each crossed through the same intersection... or the same neighborhood 4 neighborhoods away from our own... last Tuesday at approximately 5:30pm...  SO with that in common, we should go MEET at Starbucks in 45 minutes... just to randomly see if we hit it off.   (stupid... stupid... stupid)

 

The WHOLE point is to know/learn enough beforehand to already know what to talk about upon first meeting, to make it all go more smoothly.

 

If it were a mere case of just meeting at Starbucks for 45 minutes simply because each came to understand that it's their regular Starbucks... then the two fools would ALREADY BE AT Starbucks waiting for the fireworks on "Love, American Style"   or Cupid's arrow...  or whatever.   (you DON'T need OLD for that)

 

OLD allows someone to share their vulnerabilities at a pace which is comfortable for them.

And for women, who have all of the power on OLD, it makes complete sense that she dictate her own pace without standing for anything other than that.  There are SO many male prospects out there  that she just doesn't need to give a #$*@  about any one individual who won't march at her pace.

 

These Covid Times should only enhance the upside to online dating from the perspective of a woman who needs to take it slow and be sure that the prospects she follows-through with can and will evolve at her pace.

 

 

[SweetCharity]

5 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

 

When done appropriately, OLD affords many the chance to create for themselves in REAL human prospects  the environment which affords the chance to play many of your social Aces  AND introduce a number of your flaws  while still keeping others interested.

 

Think of a fictitious, gorgeous woman whose body alone inspires completely inappropriate social approaches  by men throughout her in-person life ...  and now add to it the long-term effects of that fictitious person having been sexually abused by somebody in her early years.  Further complexify this fictitious character by assuring she has her head on her shoulders, and boasts a number of scholastic awards and achievements and a prominent career in whatever field drew her interest.

 

OLD gives even that sort of a person a playing field where she is in relative control and she can keep the pawing animals at a distance while at the same time introducing herself, her mind, and her flaws  to romantic prospects who in unique-from-her-perspective ways  are caused to recognize and take interest in her mind and achievements first, before only later initiating  those still interested to her striking physical presence.  (run-on sentence)

 

So many people out there  who you see every day, are also those who have been considerably wounded in one way or another  who, far too often in societal social settings, just can't get a fair shake because of the relative imbalance of their physical appeal and the probability that they need to take it slow, and develop considerable trust before being entirely capable of dating.

 

The "forced" feeling in OLD is a function of  (a ) not wanting to witness your own vulnerability  right there in front of your eyes  (which I agree, is challenging)

 

combined with (B ) -  the idiots who see and use OLD as nothing more than another 4 feet at the end of that long bar down at the corner watering hole...   I clicked on your pretty face, I stopped long enough to determine that I think  we each crossed through the same intersection... or the same neighborhood 4 neighborhoods away from our own... last Tuesday at approximately 5:30pm...  SO with that in common, we should go MEET at Starbucks in 45 minutes... just to randomly see if we hit it off.   (stupid... stupid... stupid)

 

The WHOLE point is to know/learn enough beforehand to already know what to talk about upon first meeting, to make it all go more smoothly.

 

If it were a mere case of just meeting at Starbucks for 45 minutes simply because each came to understand that it's their regular Starbucks... then the two fools would ALREADY BE AT Starbucks waiting for the fireworks on "Love, American Style"   or Cupid's arrow...  or whatever.   (you DON'T need OLD for that)

 

OLD allows someone to share their vulnerabilities at a pace which is comfortable for them.

And for women, who have all of the power on OLD, it makes complete sense that she dictate her own pace without standing for anything other than that.  There are SO many male prospects out there  that she just doesn't need to give a #$*@  about any one individual who won't march at her pace.

 

These Covid Times should only enhance the upside to online dating from the perspective of a woman who needs to take it slow and be sure that the prospects she follows-through with can and will evolve at her pace.

 

 

I've been on OLD for a day and already feel discouraged. I haven't seen a single person I like yet. Then I feel bad as if, "okay, maybe you're being too choosy."

[d0nnivain]

You have to be EXTREMELY picky on OLD.  There is no such thing in that format as too choosy.  I did OLD for 90 days more then 10 years ago but it sucked the life right out of me.  It was soooooo demoralizing & I understand it's gotten worse over the years.  

You have a lot to deal with.  But because of that I think OLD is a horrible place for you.  Delete all those apps. 

Instead find an online NA meeting to get you through some of this.  Everybody needs a healthy outlet through this.  I do zoom group therapy every Monday morning. It's not the same as my old monthly in person meeting but it helps.   Get in touch with your regular therapist.  By now that person has to have figured out something to do to treat patients virtually.  

Also find some group that does filmmaking.  Get involved with them.  In that forum you should be able to connect with somebody who shares your passion for filmmaking.  Perhaps take this weird time to learn more about the business side of your craft' you may be able to secure more funding if you focus on the practical.  That side may possibly lead you to a good collaboration both personal & professional.  

Yes, dating is nice & hopefully your mom is nudging you in that direction because she cares about you.  Just make sure she's not sending the message that without a man you have less value.  If that is her point, tune her out.  

Do keep your geographic parameters local or at least attainable.  If you regularly go to LA for film, it's probably fine to date somebody in SoCal.  Otherwise stick to local people who you have the potential to interact with in person.  

[SweetCharity]

7 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

You have to be EXTREMELY picky on OLD.  There is no such thing in that format as too choosy.  I did OLD for 90 days more then 10 years ago but it sucked the life right out of me.  It was soooooo demoralizing & I understand it's gotten worse over the years.  

You have a lot to deal with.  But because of that I think OLD is a horrible place for you.  Delete all those apps. 

Instead find an online NA meeting to get you through some of this.  Everybody needs a healthy outlet through this.  I do zoom group therapy every Monday morning. It's not the same as my old monthly in person meeting but it helps.   Get in touch with your regular therapist.  By now that person has to have figured out something to do to treat patients virtually.  

Also find some group that does filmmaking.  Get involved with them.  In that forum you should be able to connect with somebody who shares your passion for filmmaking.  Perhaps take this weird time to learn more about the business side of your craft' you may be able to secure more funding if you focus on the practical.  That side may possibly lead you to a good collaboration both personal & professional.  

Yes, dating is nice & hopefully your mom is nudging you in that direction because she cares about you.  Just make sure she's not sending the message that without a man you have less value.  If that is her point, tune her out.  

Do keep your geographic parameters local or at least attainable.  If you regularly go to LA for film, it's probably fine to date somebody in SoCal.  Otherwise stick to local people who you have the potential to interact with in person.  

My mother is only encouraging me to do OLD because she sees how sad I am about the guy in LA. She's been single for 14 years and her motto has been, "I don't need a man to bother me." LOL. I'm just a hopeless romantic and heartbroken. 

I talk to my therapist once a week. And I do go to zoom na meetings once a week too. I should try the filmmaker's forum while I'm at it. 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

On 5/13/2020 at 7:53 PM, SweetCharity said:

I've been on OLD for a day and already feel discouraged. I haven't seen a single person I like yet. Then I feel bad as if, "okay, maybe you're being too choosy."

 

This analogy is going to sound really far out there...   but at least read it, and ponder the underlying points, rather than the medium used to introduce them:

 

Contemplate the perspective of a man going to buy his first-ever porn video.

 

Well, by which criteria should he pick one?     Most people have seen all of the enticements... for this... for that...  for the other genre...  (for the other gender?)...

but it's your time to pick one...   you can even buy three of them if you're not sure in which direction to nudge your interests

But you have no sense for which criteria/traits would make for the best selection.

 

Sure it would be great if the 22-year-old beauty who lives down the street would both star in a porn video AND somehow allow that to be known to you -  you'd pick THAT video to buy!

It might even be great if your last girlfriend had this appealing trait, or that appealing trait... or this other appealing trait... cuz that too might help to narrow your choices.

 

(pause to mention that this same randomness  is at the root of some women perceiving some men to have a particular TYPE  of woman that he goes for:   

It isn't a "type" in that context...   it's more  a function of this random person who sat beside him in 10th grade, and who was the first love of his life for 8 years hence... who he attempts to emulate long after, mostly for not having any other sense as to by which criteria to select future mates.)

 

In more practical terms...  the guy in the cubicle next to yours, at work, who always smells so nice, and who is so polite... he arrived there seemingly randomly...   (but mostly because of his qualifications for the job he's doing).  He's only RANDOMLY there in your life... but he's nearby... 5 days a week, and you TRUST him...   and that's why you might evolve to get cozy with him.

 

But once you toss yourself into the OLD pools... of course you're likely to struggle with these completely overwhelming raw NUMBERS of people... 65% of which are perhaps very upstanding people... each with a varied degree of ability for putting their own vulnerability on display, in admitting quite clearly that they would like a mate.

 

Even that vulnerability seems awkward when you cause yourself to witness it  (and especially when that vulnerability seems there and in front of you for the first time)  (new to OLD).

 

SO NOW you're somehow expected to organize your approach,  make choices  based on ideas you don't even know, and options you aren't even comfortable having... and not only THAT, but you NOW (thanks to me) start to even envy the guy who had to randomly select a porn video, cuz his will mercifully end in an hour or two, AND he can push "stop" anytime he wishes.

 

The human mind is really tricky... and it is so familiar with routine!,  that to alter that routine, especially so deliberately, is to throw everything out of kilter.

 

In a lot of ways you'd feel better off if wearing a form-fitting dress at a loud dance club with only 3 eligible men in the place.   One might grab your ass, causing your immediate bristling...  another you overheard having a loud discussion about Pinterest  with some random other woman there (so of course you wrote him off, cuz he didn't seem masculine enough) (ok, I'm now laughing at my creativity here)...

so even with that, all of your focus turned to the 3rd eligible male there...    You're still the woman, with all of the power...  if you just want sex, you need do little more than make eye contact with the guy who earlier grabbed your ass... and soon you're in the throes.

Yet you don't want just sex on this night...  so the only direction available for your thoughts of a liaison of a more lengthy sort are connected to the only remaining eligible male left in the place.

 

 

THAT'S what makes this whole OLD thing as challenging as it seems.   You now have a trillion more options than what is the norm for your life... You have to establish some organized criteria by which to winnow-down the applicants... AND you have to become somewhat comfortable with your own Vulnerability being  "out there"  for numerous people to witness.

 

The part which may be hardest of all is the complete randomness which is matched most approximately by the guy needing to select a porn video with zero criteria to go on.

It takes something to become even  used to that randomness.  

 

You can begin with grammar...     if their grammar sucks, just cross them off.

If their photos overdo it, in your estimation, just cross them off... 

 

You need SOMEthing  to narrow the prospects...  (and of COURSE there are plenty of diamonds likely to have been eliminated by your early impulsive assessments...  but that's OK too... there are scores of diamonds left in the deck, and you only need one)

 

ONE DAY on OLD is nothing, with all of the above weighing on your mind.

 

 - (sigh)  I've never purchased a porn video in my life ...   and NOT because I have anything at all against porn     (I'm much like you - I'm waiting for a sign... )

 

 

[SweetCharity]

3 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

 

This analogy is going to sound really far out there...   but at least read it, and ponder the underlying points, rather than the medium used to introduce them:

 

Contemplate the perspective of a man going to buy his first-ever porn video.

 

Well, by which criteria should he pick one?     Most people have seen all of the enticements... for this... for that...  for the other genre...  (for the other gender?)...

but it's your time to pick one...   you can even buy three of them if you're not sure in which direction to nudge your interests

But you have no sense for which criteria/traits would make for the best selection.

 

Sure it would be great if the 22-year-old beauty who lives down the street would both star in a porn video AND somehow allow that to be known to you -  you'd pick THAT video to buy!

It might even be great if your last girlfriend had this appealing trait, or that appealing trait... or this other appealing trait... cuz that too might help to narrow your choices.

 

(pause to mention that this same randomness  is at the root of some women perceiving some men to have a particular TYPE  of woman that he goes for:   

It isn't a "type" in that context...   it's more  a function of this random person who sat beside him in 10th grade, and who was the first love of his life for 8 years hence... who he attempts to emulate long after, mostly for not having any other sense as to by which criteria to select future mates.)

 

In more practical terms...  the guy in the cubicle next to yours, at work, who always smells so nice, and who is so polite... he arrived there seemingly randomly...   (but mostly because of his qualifications for the job he's doing).  He's only RANDOMLY there in your life... but he's nearby... 5 days a week, and you TRUST him...   and that's why you might evolve to get cozy with him.

 

But once you toss yourself into the OLD pools... of course you're likely to struggle with these completely overwhelming raw NUMBERS of people... 65% of which are perhaps very upstanding people... each with a varied degree of ability for putting their own vulnerability on display, in admitting quite clearly that they would like a mate.

 

Even that vulnerability seems awkward when you cause yourself to witness it  (and especially when that vulnerability seems there and in front of you for the first time)  (new to OLD).

 

SO NOW you're somehow expected to organize your approach,  make choices  based on ideas you don't even know, and options you aren't even comfortable having... and not only THAT, but you NOW (thanks to me) start to even envy the guy who had to randomly select a porn video, cuz his will mercifully end in an hour or two, AND he can push "stop" anytime he wishes.

 

The human mind is really tricky... and it is so familiar with routine!,  that to alter that routine, especially so deliberately, is to throw everything out of kilter.

 

In a lot of ways you'd feel better off if wearing a form-fitting dress at a loud dance club with only 3 eligible men in the place.   One might grab your ass, causing your immediate bristling...  another you overheard having a loud discussion about Pinterest  with some random other woman there (so of course you wrote him off, cuz he didn't seem masculine enough) (ok, I'm now laughing at my creativity here)...

so even with that, all of your focus turned to the 3rd eligible male there...    You're still the woman, with all of the power...  if you just want sex, you need do little more than make eye contact with the guy who earlier grabbed your ass... and soon you're in the throes.

Yet you don't want just sex on this night...  so the only direction available for your thoughts of a liaison of a more lengthy sort are connected to the only remaining eligible male left in the place.

 

 

THAT'S what makes this whole OLD thing as challenging as it seems.   You now have a trillion more options than what is the norm for your life... You have to establish some organized criteria by which to winnow-down the applicants... AND you have to become somewhat comfortable with your own Vulnerability being  "out there"  for numerous people to witness.

 

The part which may be hardest of all is the complete randomness which is matched most approximately by the guy needing to select a porn video with zero criteria to go on.

It takes something to become even  used to that randomness.  

 

You can begin with grammar...     if their grammar sucks, just cross them off.

If their photos overdo it, in your estimation, just cross them off... 

 

You need SOMEthing  to narrow the prospects...  (and of COURSE there are plenty of diamonds likely to have been eliminated by your early impulsive assessments...  but that's OK too... there are scores of diamonds left in the deck, and you only need one)

 

ONE DAY on OLD is nothing, with all of the above weighing on your mind.

 

 - (sigh)  I've never purchased a porn video in my life ...   and NOT because I have anything at all against porn     (I'm much like you - I'm waiting for a sign... )

 

 

You just threw a lot at me and there's a nothing wrong with a man who likes pinterest...

I'm not over the guy in LA. Which each day that passes I get more and more sad.

[SweetCharity]

Update: I deleted my OLD profile. I'm not ready. I'm going to try a psychiatrist tomorrow. I keep telling myself to just let go of LA guy and not give in to despair. 

[Cookiesandough]

I’m glad you’re going to see someone you can talk to and will give guidance. . Good luck and keep us updated ! 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Cookiesandough