He said he wanted to leave his wife and be together. then closed down

[lostandconfused21]

Hello. I have been the other woman in an affair with a married man for over a year and a half. Things have been very intense for a long time. We work together and started off as just friends...after a year he was on a business trip and called me and said he couldn’t wait any longer to tell me about his feelings for me which of course I reciprocated. It just escalated from there. It’s been a year and 8 months of ups and downs, lunches, calls, messages, overnight trips...lots of highs and just as many lows. Many times we tried to end it..he would pull away out of guilt. There have been a couple instances where his wife found emails and was very suspicious but he talked his way out of it.

He would distance himself for a week or two but that was as long as it would last. He always came back quickly. On the occasion I would suggest ending it he would get angry, and say he didn’t want me to be with someone else. It had been especially good for the last 6 months. We were very close with lots of conversations about how much he wished we were together but he just couldn’t bring himself to leave especially because of the kids. As close as I’ve ever been to anyone. About 6 weeks ago he contacted me late one night and said it had been an awful weekend at home...he missed me so much..and that he had had the opportunity to walk away but didn’t. He said he just could think about the kids.

He said he was hoping she would just say I’m done, and he would agree and that would be that. He said he wanted us to be together but we couldn’t move in together right away. He said he had never experienced happiness and joy like he felt when he was with me. Over the next few days we had more detailed conversations about him leaving..financial stuff that he was concerned about, his home, credit cards. Getting a home together after a year had passed. I couldn’t believe that finally this might happen. Couple days later he said we needed to talk more but he wasn’t ready...he needed some time. He felt a little distant but said there was a lot going on.

Then we went through a 4 week period where we didn’t see each other due to working from home because of coronavirus. Our last day working together before this break he said he thought this break would be good for him to figure out his next steps. I did not do well...he was distant and things felt different. I tried multiple times to bring up the discussion that he said we needed to have...said I need to know what’s happening, even if I don’t like it I just need to know if something changed. He stonewalled me said he wasn’t ready to talk and would let me know when/if he was ready. There were a couple times he had the opportunity to possibly meet but he didn’t make it happen.

We went back to work yesterday. Things did happen between us at lunch but he felt like he has pulled back so far. There are references to us and what is between us but it’s like the conversations we had just 5-6 weeks ago never happened..but I can tell he still has the same feelings...has anything similar happened to anyone out there?

What does it mean that he won’t address what we talked about? I am a mess mentally about this situation. It makes me feel like I have lost my mind...Thank you for any replies...

Edited May 13, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BaileyB]

Has anything similar happened to anyone else... friend, you need to spend an evening reading some of the posts on this board.

The whole, “I really want to leave my wife and be with you, but I just can’t leave my kids excuse...” That excuse is as common as a cold around here.

One important thing to remember, words are just words. If you want to know what a man really means, pay attention to his actions. Words are meaningless, unless they are backed up by action. And this man, is choosing to distance himself from you and he is not planning to leave his wife. In fact, when he was almost discovered he went out of his way to convince her that nothing was wrong... that he wasn’t leaving. 

This man is not available to be in a relationship with you - he has a wife and family. This isn’t “dating” where a man meets a woman, so he dumps his girlfriend to get with he new girl. No, he has a wife and children. He’s not leaving them, but he still wants you... and that’s a problem for you. 

I’m sorry, it must be terribly hard now as he pulls away, but please don’t waste any more time than you have already. Good luck to you.

Edited May 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[lostandconfused21]

Thank you for responding. He keeps saying everything is fine, I need to relax, don’t worry....but I know better, it doesn’t feel the same. Something is wrong and I don’t know why he just won’t say, I’ve decided I’m staying with my family. I know you’re right in everything you say. I wish we didn’t work together. I appreciate you answering...

[deepthinking]

Years ago, I was involved with a MM. It's the children that they can't leave. You may clamour for weekend visits once he divorces, but to some, parenting is more complicated than that. You said "He said he just could think about the kids" and I saw this in my MM. He was never going to love me more than them, and his wife knew that. so all she had to do was threaten to take the kids abroad forever  if he carried on with me. Nobody won. 

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, MC75 said:

He keeps saying everything is fine, I need to relax, don’t worry....but I know better, it doesn’t feel the same. Something is wrong and I don’t know why he just won’t say, I’ve decided I’m staying with my family. 

Trust your instinct. 

There could be any number of reasons why he doesn’t just say it - he is conflict avoidant, he doesn’t want to hurt or disappoint you, he doesn’t know what he wants, he wants to keep you on the line... it doesn’t change the fact that he is where he wants to be. 
 

Edited May 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

10 minutes ago, deepthinking said:

Years ago, I was involved with a MM. It's the children that they can't leave. You may clamour for weekend visits once he divorces, but to some, parenting is more complicated than that. You said "He said he just could think about the kids" and I saw this in my MM. He was never going to love me more than them, and his wife knew that. so all she had to do was threaten to take the kids abroad forever  if he carried on with me. Nobody won. 

I don’t know the specifics of you situation, but that’s not entirely true. Many parents divorce these days and both parents share custody. Gone are the days when the children live with the mother and the father has them every other weekend. If a man is truly unhappy in his marriage, he can divorce and still maintain a very close relationship with his children - sharing custody. He can also have another relationship. It’s very complicated and it’s a sacrifice, no doubt about it. But, it happens every. single. day.

My experience here has been that many men use this as a reason why they can not leave their marriage, because what kind of a woman would the OW be if she came between a man and his children? How do you argue with that? It’s ridiculous, considering that he is engaging in an extramarital affair that puts his relationship with his children, their mother, and the stability of their family at risk. But still, words easily said that often serve their purpose very well, to lower the expectations of the other woman and put off the decision to leave the marriage and be together for a little while longer...

Edited May 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[Zona]

1 hour ago, MC75 said:

has anything similar happened to anyone out there? 

Like someone already mentioned, this entire sub-forum is filled with near identical stories to yours. Probably at least 95% of the stories here are strikingly similar. Spend time reading through some of them and you will see what I mean. From what I've seen here, out of the hundreds/thousands of threads here, there are only a handful of posters who ended up with MM in the end, in fact only one that I know of for sure.

One other thing for you to ponder. You've seen how easily he lies to and deceives his wife, so why do you think he will be honest with you? Sorry for the 2x4, but be prepared for this push/pull hot/cold to go on indefinitely.

 

[heartwhole2]

1 hour ago, MC75 said:

Thank you for responding. He keeps saying everything is fine, I need to relax, don’t worry....but I know better, it doesn’t feel the same. Something is wrong and I don’t know why he just won’t say, I’ve decided I’m staying with my family. I know you’re right in everything you say. I wish we didn’t work together. I appreciate you answering...

You don't know why he won't say that he's staying with his family because you are giving him far too much credit for being able to handle conflict in a mature and responsible way. The ironic thing is that if he were good at conflict resolution, he almost certainly wouldn't be having an affair to start with. 

2 hours ago, MC75 said:

He said he was hoping she would just say I’m done, and he would agree and that would be that.

^^^That right there. He was hoping she would end it. But if he wanted her to end it, then why did he do this:

2 hours ago, MC75 said:

There have been a couple instances where his wife found emails and was very suspicious but he talked his way out of it.

He "talked his way out of it." No. He gaslighted her. He lied. He told her she was paranoid. He misled her so that she would not have the information she would need to decide that she's done with the marriage. This tells me two things. Number one, he cares deeply about how others see him. He needs to be seen as a "good person." It doesn't matter if he isn't actually a good person. He's not actually consumed with empathy and a desire to live and treat others well. But if others see him for what he is -- a weak, conflict-avoidant, immature, and selfish cheater -- he will fall apart. And number two, he doesn't actually want his marriage to end. It's nice to pretend that he does and enjoy the love hormones and the sex. I'm sure he believes it part of the time, except when his wife might actually find out about the affair or they have a big fight. And then he's mum.

So maybe if his wife said, "You know what? Let's have an amicable divorce and we'll be coparent BFFs and you can see whomever you want and I'll tell the whole world what a great guy you are," he would say, "Great!" But even then, I have my doubts. Because the thing about conflict-avoidant people is that they allow rather minor, non-deal breaker type issues in a marriage to fester and fester while their spouse has no clue. And then they decide they're in unhappy, unsalvageable marriages. But deep down, they know their calculations aren't really adding up, and the affair partner they have waiting in the wings isn't any more likely to bring less conflict to a future relationship. Throw in the divorce and single parenting, and it will surely bring more. 

But I'm not so much concerned with this cliche of a man. He's not here asking for advice. You are. 

2 hours ago, MC75 said:

he couldn’t wait any longer to tell me about his feelings for me which of course I reciprocated.

Why of course? Why was it a given that you would want a half relationship in secret with this guy? Were you propping up your self-esteem with the fact that he wanted you despite being married? Wouldn't you rather find it beneath you to be some married guy's side chick?

2 hours ago, MC75 said:

On the occasion I would suggest ending it he would get angry, and say he didn’t want me to be with someone else.

And were you flattered? Or relieved? That the married guy who pulls away from you sometimes doesn't want you to leave? 

The issue is really not why he says one thing and does another. The question is why you have kept progressing your relationship with him when he does this. You say your relationship has been especially good recently, at least until quarantine. Are you sure? It felt good. It boosted your ego. But is it really the stuff that lifetime partnerships are built on? 

When you meet someone and fall in love, it's easy to see them as the hero in every situation. But what kind of hero bald-face lies to his wife when she asks him for the truth? What kind of hero says he loves his children too much to leave and then does secret s***ty stuff that could make that happen anyway? This is not a man who will look himself in the mirror and do and say hard things. This is not a man who will be honest when dishonesty is easier on him. 

It's not healthy to accept these things in any kind of relationship. Loving yourself means having boundaries. People who cross them don't get to stay in relationship with you. I know that's easier said than done. You made some bad judgments because it felt good at the time. It will take a lot of hard work and self-reflection to get out of this situation and heal, but we humans are resilient. Finding a counselor who will help you see and love and choose yourself is a must, if you're not in counseling already.

[Lurker123]

11 hours ago, BaileyB said:

 

Has anything similar happened to anyone else... friend, you need to spend an evening reading some of the posts on this board.

The whole, “I really want to leave my wife and be with you, but I just can’t leave my kids excuse...” That excuse is as common as a cold around here 

 

Couldn’t have put this better myself.
 

Reading others threads definitely gives you insight and realisation that actually what you are going through, is pretty much the exact same as what every OW goes through. In fact each time I read a story, I’m still shocked at the sense of deja vu that hits me every. single. time. How can so many peoples stories be so different, yet pretty much EXACTLY the same. Do these MM have a secret club or something where they discuss excuses to give to OW and BW and the best ones get the vote?! 😂

Let me save you a lot of time and energy and future hurt- he won’t leave his wife and you unfortunately will still be in this situation for many years to come, effectively alone, unless you find the strength to end this and walk away now. Good luck! x 

[somanymistakes]

11 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I don’t know the specifics of you situation, but that’s not entirely true. Many parents divorce these days and both parents share custody. Gone are the days when the children live with the mother and the father has them every other weekend. If a man is truly unhappy in his marriage, he can divorce and still maintain a very close relationship with his children - sharing custody. He can also have another relationship. It’s very complicated and it’s a sacrifice, no doubt about it. But, it happens every. single. day.

My experience here has been that many men use this as a reason why they can not leave their marriage, because what kind of a woman would the OW be if she came between a man and his children? How do you argue with that? It’s ridiculous, considering that he is engaging in an extramarital affair that puts his relationship with his children, their mother, and the stability of their family at risk. But still, words easily said that often serve their purpose very well, to lower the expectations of the other woman and put off the decision to leave the marriage and be together for a little while longer...

It's a complicated mix and muddle. "Gone are the days" - well honestly this depends on jurisdiction. Even in the US there are still a few places that default to "mom gets most of it, dad gets EOW". It's much rarer than it used to be, the US standard is really moving to 50/50. But it's not there everywhere. And in some countries, it's not an option at all. 

Even without affairs involved, some men on divorce forums are hesitant to leave the marriage and cut their time down with their children to only 50% or less. Especially if they hate their spouse and think she's a complete flake with bad medical/political opinions and don't want her alone with the children the other 50% of the time. 

So it's not necessarily completely a lie. But. People who are stuck in bad situations and actually want to get out of them will make plans and try things to change the situation. 

If a MM is concerned about custody and making plans for how to deal with it when he divorces, or at least looking into what things he can do and how to best fight his corner? That sounds like a guy who actually wants a divorce. If he just handwrings and says he can't leave because of the kids? He's being pretty clear that he WON'T leave, so don't get your hopes up waiting. Whether it's really 'for the kids' or just because he likes things the way they are, if he's not actively investigating how to change his situation, he basically doesn't intend to.

 

(And yes, I'm still with my partner, we are still fighting through a very messy divorce from his crazy ex because she is a bowl of salted nuts. It's not easy. But he wanted out!)

[notmyfinestmoment]

Hi MC75, welcome to the board.

I am sorry for the hurt and confusion you are feeling.   I won't go so far as to say that every story is the same or they ALL end the same way, but I will say that there are a lot of complications with affairs.   Our stories are very similar.   Mine came to me after a break up with decisive plans of a future.  Like you, we talked about finances, timelines, where we would move, etc..   He seemed so resolved....even told me the day he was going to have the conversation.  When the day approached, he started dragging his feet.  I was understanding knowing what a difficult conversation it was and the timing should be right, so I pulled back for a couple of weeks so he could have a clear head.  I watched him waffle (and avoid talking to me about it).  I finally found my voice and told him that I didn't think he was going to follow through and that it was never going to be a good time to have that conversation (note: he said he was leaving two other times during our time together, but couldn't follow through because of his daughter, so I have seen this movie before, but it seemed different this time because of the things we talked about).   Instead of offering reassurance, he retreated.  I knew something had changed and he just couldn't find the words to tell me because of all the things he had said.  So, I let him off the hook and ended it.  He didn't try to change my mind.  He accepted it and that told me everything.   We have been in NC for 4 months now.  It's really hard. I can't even say that walking away was the best thing I ever did....I'm not there yet because I am still grieving the loss, but I do hope to get there.  It is taking a lot more time that I would like though!

I really believe that your MM means what he says to you when he says it.  Unfortunately, he may love you more than anything, but when it comes to walking away from kids, or the stigma that comes with leaving a marriage (especially when only one party wants it) is more than most can handle.   I would just let him go figure it out without you present.  I know it is devastating, but watching his indecision is pretty horrific in it's own way, isn't it?   Picture this, you are on the roller coaster of life with him (up and down), but you aren't the one in the car with him, instead, he has you dangling over the side, holding onto you with by your wrist.   That is a pretty scary ride!!!     I will tell you what my IC tells me...protect yourself and start putting yourself first.   Kind of think of what they tell you when you are getting on an airplane....put your oxygen mask on FIRST!   If you are anything like me, you were so busy being there for him, being empathetic to the situation, that your needs are left in the dust.   That is not healthy or fair to you!    Let him go....he has ALOT of work to do before he can be a healthy partner to anyone.   

Hang in there and keep posting....we will be there for you!

[Pumaza]

All affair storys are same. And have same solution.
Unless you really really ddnt know he was married and couldnt find out either and he ddnt tell you also, and there was no signs.No married person gonna leave their partner.

If they wanna leave their wife, you would have found them single day one.

Its often just them cheating while their marriage is going true a hard time. Instead of seeking help of a professional.

Once things are going better they will leave you!!!

Solution is always never entertain anyone who is not single.And if you did, stop.leave.end it!

There is no ohh but he said he would.

They say anything to get what they want.

Date singles.Many singles out there.

 

 

 

[Redhead14]

He wants his cake and eat it too PERIOD.  He will tell either woman whatever they need to hear to keep things at least at status quo.  Any time she raises suspicions, he will drop out of sight for a bit until she's feeling more secure and things smooth over.  It doesn't matter what he says, it's what he does that matters.  A man's words and actions should match.  If the words don't match the actions, you pay attention to the actions.  His actions right now are telling you that he's just one foot in and one foot out . . . still.  I'd say that being housebound with the family may have allowed them to bond again or else he'd be all over you now because things didn't go well during the lock down. 

You can continue to string yourself along or you can cut the cord and move on right now.  You don't have to accept this situation. 

[somanymistakes]

55 minutes ago, Pumaza said:

All affair storys are same. And have same solution.
Unless you really really ddnt know he was married and couldnt find out either and he ddnt tell you also, and there was no signs.No married person gonna leave their partner.

This isn't true - some people do leave their partners, it happens all the time. I know you're trying to help the OP come to terms with the fact that HER married person probably isn't going to leave, but I think it's still important to face facts.

And surely, if you really didn't know he was married because he was lying his butt off, that would make him even LESS likely to leave?

[Zona]

3 minutes ago, somanymistakes said:

some people do leave their partners, it happens all the time. 

Ah yes, you were the "success" story I was thinking about.

It definitely happens, but what are the odds? There are quite a few studies out there that have tried to figure it out. When the measure is how many people are still romantically involved with their affair partners after 5 years, no study has shown more than 10%. The numbers I have seen are 1%, 4% and 10%, so it's probably close to an average of that. Since adultery has become so prevalent, even those meagre odds do mean that numerically there are a lot of people who left their spouse to be with AP.

Marriages fail all the time, and even if someone leaves a marriage and divorces, it doesn't mean they will make things permanent with their affair partner. A lot of affairs (not saying yours) are based on fantasy and limerence, and once things "normalize", the relationship may look very different. Also affairs are often an indication of some unresolved personal issues that may make any new relationship unstable. Heartwhole2 posted an excellent description of conflict avoidance in this thread, which is really common with men who have affairs.

How this relates to the OP is that the hot/cold and push/pull will almost certainly continue as long as she allows it or until his wife finds out.

[Cookiesandough]

I’m looking at this completely objectively. Let’s say you are a MM with kids not happy in your marriage (let’s say for the sake of argument he’s really unhappy in this situation and loves you and not her). You have a family. You are settled, however boring or unhappy you may be. People have a tendency to stick to what’s familiar. They tend to continue the same patterns. He has an established life with his wife, a pattern, familiarity. He has to leave all that behind, plus take on all the stress, uncertainty, financial repercussions etc. that come with leaving a marriage. And then kids. Think about how he knows they  will feel when they find out he left mom for OW. . Kids already get impacted by divorce in the most benign circumstances. But they will learn he he tore their lives apart for an OW. That’s so messy. No offense, I’m sure you’re a perfectly fine woman (aside from involving yourself with a married man), but I find it very unlikely you are worth all that. Especially when he most likely can keep getting it without having to risk all that. Sorry. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[heartwhole2]

1 minute ago, Cookiesandough said:

I’m looking at this completely objectively. Let’s say you are a MM with kids not happy in your marriage (let’s say for the sake of argument he’s really unhappy in this situation and loves you and not her). You have a family. You are settled, however boring or unhappy you may be. People have a tendency to stick to what’s familiar. They tend to continue the same patterns. He has an established life with his wife, a pattern, familiarity. He has to leave all that behind, plus take on all the stress, uncertainty, financial repercussions etc. that come with leaving a marriage. And then kids. Think about how he knows they  will feel when they find out he left mom for OW. . Kids already get impacted by divorce in the most benign circumstances. But they will learn he he tore their lives apart for an OW. No offense, I’m sure you’re a perfectly fine woman (aside from involving yourself with a married man), but I find it very unlikely you are worth all that. Especially when he most likely can keep getting it without having to risk all that. Sorry. 

I'm in agreement with your general thesis here, but phrasing that she's unlikely to be worth all that isn't how I would say it. She's a human being who is 100% worthy of a healthy relationship and I don't want her to doubt that. The issue is that a MM who is exhibiting so much flawed thinking and lacking coping skills is not able to offer her, or anyone, a healthy relationship. 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Typically the statement posed in the title would be used to prolong a situation that is turning sour... I mean, lets say you two get married, how long till the next woman comes into the picture that he is out sneaking around with? You have to understand, this guy doesn't love you, he loves the part you are playing in the situation... He would say the same things to any other woman in your position.

[elaine567]

She may be an entirely worthy human being but she is not "worth" blowing up his life for, that is the distinction

[notbroken]

Your MM is by definition a liar.  He lies to the person he is supposed to be closest to every time he sees you.  It is not hard to imagine he could be lying to you too.   The likely truth is that he IS unhappy at home, but not enough to leave his wife and kids or he would have already done it.   Even if he did, do you really want to be with a proven liar who you will likely never trust?   There are lots of single guys in the world.   Find one.  This one is WAY more trouble than he is worth.  You'll likely have to get another job for your own well being.  The sooner the better.  Drop him like the untrustworthy person he is. 

[MissBee]

Yea, these things have happened to many many many here.

Most people want to really get into the nitty gritty details of their story, and that's fine, I've been on this forum since about 2009 on and off and have lived life all the while and more or less have realized that for most of these stories, the details aren't relevant as the general theme and path tend to be more or less the same. But I also understand how that can feel upsetting or dismissive, but it's not, it's just helpful for perspective.

For me, the point is, if a single man was doing this: giving mixed messages, being distant, planned a life with you a month ago then now acts like nothing happened, is making you feel crazy, what would you do? So many times our answer is to try to change this person's mind or to believe maybe we're the wrong ones, you're not.  But I get how it can feel more hurtful to see or accept that he's not in a place to give you what you want and all his actions show it. You talked a lot about stuff before, but talking about stuff and doing it aren't the same. And if someone is stonewalling and not even explaining any changes but still want to fool around, they're not being fair and only looking out for themselves. The issue is, so many of us when people begin treating us badly or not doing as they say, we so want the fantasy of who we think they are and so just want to see if we can go back to the promises or that we did something to make them change their minds about us and if only we can change something...and we often end up carrying on well past the date of when things are good. Once you start feeling crazy, that's the first and biggest red flag that the relationship isn't healthy or providing a safe, reliable and stable space for you.

[Pumaza]

4 hours ago, somanymistakes said:

This isn't true - some people do leave their partners, it happens all the time. I know you're trying to help the OP come to terms with the fact that HER married person probably isn't going to leave, but I think it's still important to face facts.

And surely, if you really didn't know he was married because he was lying his butt off, that would make him even LESS likely to leave?

Very few reallly leave.And if they do it will take long before it happens.

Beside why you want to break a home?

All cases,rather you knew he married or no, the solution is to end it.Get someone single.

[Pumaza]

8 minutes ago, MissBee said:

Yea, these things have happened to many many many here.

Most people want to really get into the nitty gritty details of their story, and that's fine, I've been on this forum since about 2009 on and off and have lived life all the while and more or less have realized that for most of these stories, the details aren't relevant as the general theme and path tend to be more or less the same. But I also understand how that can feel upsetting or dismissive, but it's not, it's just helpful for perspective.

EXACTLY!!!!

 

[lostandconfused21]

Thanks to everyone for all their replies...means so much to read them and to know that many people have been through this. We are supposed to have lunch tomorrow. I am scared but ready to say the words, do we have a future...will we ever be together...I don’t want to hear no but am prepared to. That is if he will respond with an actual answer. If he doesn’t say yes, I feel like it’s time to say that this is not enough for me anymore...I don’t want to go backwards. A few lunches a week and nights on business trips isn’t what I want..I want a life with him and if he doesn’t want the same it’s time to end it. I’m scared of how it will feel if it ends..I’ll be completely alone but I truly am already alone now. Thanks again to all who responded...

Edited May 14, 2020 by MC75
Grammar

[Redhead14]

4 hours ago, MC75 said:

Thanks to everyone for all their replies...means so much to read them and to know that many people have been through this. We are supposed to have lunch tomorrow. I am scared but ready to say the words, do we have a future...will we ever be together...I don’t want to hear no but am prepared to. That is if he will respond with an actual answer. If he doesn’t say yes, I feel like it’s time to say that this is not enough for me anymore...I don’t want to go backwards. A few lunches a week and nights on business trips isn’t what I want..I want a life with him and if he doesn’t want the same it’s time to end it. I’m scared of how it will feel if it ends..I’ll be completely alone but I truly am already alone now. Thanks again to all who responded...

I'd rather be alone than miserable with someone else . . .