Husband caught watching porn again, again and again over 8 years

[Atwood]

Firstly, it's probably going to be in your best interest to seek counselling for the hurt you're experiencing right now. Distrust and betrayal in a relationship can completely devestate you and leave you feeling extremely anxious and cause a lot of unresolved hurt. It doesn't matter if he or anyone else thinks you haven't been betrayed by their standards because you feel it. Counselling will also help you cope with the anxiety of "what does this all mean about how he feels about me?".

I don't want to try and convince you that porn-watching is okay in a relationship because for you it isn't and you're allowed to have that boundary. However, allow me to reframe the issue. The issue is not the porn-watching. The issue is the deceit. You did absolutely the right thing because you were open and honest from the beginning that you have been severely hurt by porn in the past and that it isn't something you could deal with in a future relationship. This would have been the time for him to say, "well I watch porn regularly and I don't think I could never watch it again. Are you okay with this or should we end it here?" - in more or less words. Instead of respecting your boundaries, he decided that he would just lie to you instead. The lying and deceit is always much more hurtful than anything else. You were honest and fair, and he did not give you the option to walk away from his true self. He lied about who he was so you would accept him which is always going to blow up in your face. 

I understand being hurt by porn, as there are some people who can really damage their partners with it. He has shown you that he is not willing to give it up and that he can lie to you repeatedly. I don't think that's a trivial reason to break up because it's quite clearly going to wreck your mental health. You deserved to meet someone whose boundaries matched up to yours (no, men who don't watch porn aren't unicorns, they're just not believed and called liars). I'm not saying a man who doesn't watch porn would have been easy to find, but you deserved for your partner to be honest about wanting to watch it, and to be open about the motivations for it. I was initially very sensitive about porn watching because of extremely negative experiences I had with it in the past, but having my partner calmly and lovingly explain to me that it is not a partner replacement and that it is not used as something to compare me to, it became something I was happy to accept (and even use myself from time to time). Your partner has been secretive, resentful, and seemingly unwilling to just be honest about it. 

Although, you must also recognise that your behaviour has been unreasonable and controlling - you cannot and should not control other people. He may not ever feel comfortable being honest with you now, though he should have been in the beginning. Your relationship cannot continue as it is. I recommend you, or both of you, starting with counselling so you can talk it through. But if you know you will never be willing to accept who he is or what he does, you might be happier without each other.

[Tamfana]

Sadmom, you can have whatever rules, limits, boundaries or standards you wish.  You made it clear to your husband that porn was and is a dealbreaker for you.  It's on him to decide if he can live with it or not.  He knows you won't live with it so he's going to act like a child hiding something from mommy?  Not sexy. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Tamfana

[salparadise]

20 minutes ago, Tamfana said:

Sadmom, you can have whatever rules, limits, boundaries or standards you wish.

Seriously?

If that's the case, then why can't he? If she's that jealous of him looking at other women, I've got the perfect solution... buy a good video camera and a selection of toys and costumes and crank up action. Then he can watch without "cheating."

I feel for her in the sense that her puritanical beliefs are causing her so much distress and putting extreme pressure on this marriage... but this is all in HER head. Men watch porn, men masturbate. The chance of her ever encountering one who does neither is so close to zero that it doesn't even count. The solution is for her to change these irrational beliefs and accept her husband as a good, loving, normal man.

Let's not be naive about who the one with the obsession is here.

[Atwood]

54 minutes ago, salparadise said:

Seriously?

If that's the case, then why can't he? If she's that jealous of him looking at other women, I've got the perfect solution... buy a good video camera and a selection of toys and costumes and crank up action. Then he can watch without "cheating."

I feel for her in the sense that her puritanical beliefs are causing her so much distress and putting extreme pressure on this marriage... but this is all in HER head. Men watch porn, men masturbate. The chance of her ever encountering one who does neither is so close to zero that it doesn't even count. The solution is for her to change these irrational beliefs and accept her husband as a good, loving, normal man.

Let's not be naive about who the one with the obsession is here.

Whilst I agree that her husband should also have his boundaries respected and that the OP is being controlling - he agreed to enter the relationship and lied to her outright saying he didn't approve of the behaviour and that he would never do it. Telling him how she felt about porn, and then being repeatedly lied to about it isn't in her head. She had the decency to show her true colours at the very beginning, which is more than we can say for him. She told him from the outset what she was willing to accept, and lying to her and then expecting her to get over it way down the line is not a rational thing to expect. 

[elaine567]

He did a bait and switch on her.
That is actually one of the worst things a partner can do.
Promise to be one thing whilst revealing something different all together further down the line.

 

[LuckyM]

This is virtual cheating not actual cheating IRL. I have not read all the replies. But to me the issue is the rest of your relationship happy or not so good?  How is your sex with him? Is he a good father?  Also. When you say porno do you mean hard core sex or merely nude photos because this is a big difference. Photos are more forgivable aren't they? Like Playboy

[healing light]

I went back and counted and she laid out 3 instances where there was porn use involved. In 8 years. With her policing his masturbation the whole time.

While I do think there are men who don't watch it, they are in a very clear minority, and less than a handful of times when you're actively hunting for it  over the span of near a decade is about as good as it gets in the real world, imo. If this man is a good father and husband, I definitely wouldn't throw him away in favor of searching for another rare man who either doesn't watch porn or is harder to catch at it. There is no guarantee that a complete non-user of porn *and* non-masturbator *and* overall good partner will be found. 

Not to mention, I think very few partners would put up with the invasion of privacy she describes before snapping. Could you imagine being constipated or needing to take longer in the bathroom for any reason and always having to worry about your wife talking to you through the door or barging in on you? 

I would venture to say most people need a bit of alone time to decompress from each other in the context of any healthy relationship and that has nothing at all to do with porn. So, I do think there are multiple unreasonable expectations or issues going on in this marriage that warrant counseling. 

[ShyViolet]

I just have to say, Sadmom, I really feel that you are the one with the problem.  Yes, he should have been more up front with you about this and told you "listen, I can't promise you that I'll never watch porn.  It's something that I'm going to do." instead of saying he'd never do it, and then hiding it.  However, the way you have been acting in this relationship is beyond irrational and unreasonable.  Not allowing him his privacy in the bathroom, freaking out every time you've caught him masturbating, that is just not OK.  Men are going to masturbate, that is just what they do, and you have no right to forbid him from doing that.  You're treating him like his body is not his own.  I'm really surprised this guy even wants to stay with you.

[ExpatInItaly]

15 hours ago, salparadise said:

Seriously?

If that's the case, then why can't he? 

I hear you. 

The problem is that he had already agreed to abide by her standards. Not a smart choice when he evidently knew it wasn't realistic for him, but he opted to remain with her knowing she finds it all unacceptable. I don't disagree that he should be able to, er, "enjoy" himself without her policing him, but unfortunately, this is what happens when two people with fundamentally opposing views on the matter don't effectively deal with the problem in the first place. 

Do I personally think OP is over-reacting and has some extreme insecurity? Yes, I do. I think it would be worth it for her to explore her own insecurity to understand better where it comes from and how to manage it without controlling and lashing out to the degree that she does. No question she is being unreasonable about several things here. However, I also think her husband has some work to do in terms of learning to be honest and willing to stand up to her when he knows he won't go along with what she's asking. 

They've both contributed to this unhealthy dynamic they have going, in different ways. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[salparadise]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I also think her husband has some work to do in terms of learning to be honest and willing to stand up to her when he knows he won't go along with what she's asking.

Yes, absolutely. If he had been honest about it before they married she would be here writing about a husband with a different name. And if he had stood up to her after they married, this topic would be in the "separation and divorce" forum. There would be no more problem because there would be no more marriage. Then she could put up a profile on Match dot com with the heading, "Aren't there any good men left who don't wank?" And someone would come along and say... "oh my goodness you're such a sweetheart. I don't believe in wanking. Will you marry me?"

[thefooloftheyear]

Tough situation....

Yes, men do like to view images /video of sexy women...There are even studies that show clear evidence of many physiological benefits from this type of behavior...And most women do understand it....But some don't...

My question here is there would absolutely(ok..maybe probably) be no problem here if he wasn't trying to do it in such a way where he could easily be caught....There are millions of guys out there that are just able to control it to a point where their significant other has no idea it's happening....Ok..You want to call it deceptive or tricky fine...But it's no more tricky than the woman only being able to orgasm thinking of the hunky electrician that was fixing the wiring in the house last month while her average husband is banging her...Its evidently something many women do...and it's really not that much different....

Two things stick out here...She does seem to be acting like a Boner Cop or something...That's a little weird and I would think exhausting...But he's also acting like a child or an idiot...he obviously knows she doesn't like it, so he can't muster enough self control to keep this as far away from her where she never sees/experiences it??  That's just dumb and bush league on so many levels....And I don't agree that it's a "man's right" to do this right under her nose and she has to accept it....It makes no sense...In that case,. why even bother with any "rules" or considerations necessary to maintain a healthy relationship?  Just throw them all out and pull out all stops?

If the marriage is otherwise good, then this could probably be fixed....He could make a big step in the right direction by just exercising some basic common sense and self control...He could probably solve this tomorrow in that case...

Just to add, and I can't say it's the case here, but some of these instances do make me wonder about whether people pay enough attention to raw sexual attraction when picking a life partner....I don't think enough people do, but  that's another story for another thread/day....

TFY 

[K.K.]

5 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

but some of these instances do make me wonder about whether people pay enough attention to raw sexual attraction when picking a life partner....I don't think enough people do, but  that's another story for another thread/day....

“Boner cops!”  😁 

Nah... they don’t. It’s all fine and good at the beginning, then before you know it... they turn into mom or dad patrolling your private parts like they own them...evidently.

Next thing ya know, you’re trying not to even look at your own penis or vagina and wondering why it doesn’t work when you try to stick it in dear old mom. 

Besides, everyone knows when someone tries to tell you what you’re not “allowed” to do... that’s the first thing you’re going for. 

Don’t ask. Don’t tell. The simplicity of it is highly underrated. 

 

 

 

[pepperbird]

op,

is it the porn watching that is what's really got you upset or is it that he his it and you feel he was dishonest?

If it really bothers you this much, then talk to him. Explain why it bothers you and get his feedback. It could be that if you find out why he watches it, it will feel a lot less threatening.
for what it;s worth, lots of guys do it, including ones in happy, committed marriages. You do have every right to set parameters for what you will and will not accept,but I would ask yourself if this is really  the hill you want your marriage to die or, or do you think you can work with your husband so you don;t feel so upset by his viewing pornography.

 

[elaine567]

5 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

but unfortunately, this is what happens when two people with fundamentally opposing views on the matter don't effectively deal with the problem in the first place. 

But she thought she had dealt with it, she brought it up early doors and... 

On 5/15/2020 at 8:10 AM, Sadmom111 said:

He told me how he completely disapproved of that behavior and that he could not believe that they could do something like that to hurt the one they loved.

The mistake she made was sticking around once she found out his actions did not match his words on this subject BEFORE they got married.

On 5/15/2020 at 8:10 AM, Sadmom111 said:

I went away for a week and when I came back I later discovered on a later date that he watched porn when I was not there. I was deeply hurt and he told me how he would never do something like that again.
We got married...

People do this all the time they get engaged then something "bad" happens  - lying, cheating, stealing, gambling...etc. and they ignore it as the "love" is too strong and they want to get married..
Then lo and behold the "bad" thing happens again...

[d0nnivain]

There are actually a few problems in here, not just one. 

The BF was watching porn & becoming OL "friends" with actresses & models.  The "friendships" were the problem. 

The husband has now been caught watching porn.   IMO watching porn occasionally  is no reason to break up a marriage but I'm not the OP.  It upsets her, so her husband would do well  to respect her wishes. But OP you have to be reasonable.  Not every act of masturbation is an affront to you or your marriage.  If your husband wants to jerk off in the shower, find a way to be OK with that.  It's quick & he's really not hurting anybody.  If every once in a while he just wants a release without having to find you & make the effort to care about you & your sexual needs, let him have that.   

However, here it seems that the physical interactions between you two are decreasing.  I can't say for sure that it's a function of him expending all his sexual energy in solitary pursuits but you chasing him into a locked bathroom & basically treating him like a naughty teenaged boy is almost certainly causing him to view you & your relationship negatively.  Your behavior is not sexy or inviting.  The more you complain about the porn, the farther away you push him.  

Porn isn't going away.  If your needs are being met by your partner, be a bit more understanding about his needs.  Offer more sex.  Find out what he likes about porn.  Give some of it to him if you can.  For what you can't or won't give him, try to be more OK with this outlet that doesn't involve physical cheating with another live human.  Even if you dump your husband & break up your family, the next guy & the guy after that are all going to watch porn too.  You really can't avoid it.  So my advice:  find a compromise.  

 

[BaileyB]

OP, if you are expecting to find a man who does not watch porn in this day and age when it is so readily available, you will find yourself sadly disappointed. Men watch porn. Women watch porn. It’s become a very mainstream part of today’s culture, whether you agree or disagree. 

My humble opinion, if he’s going to watch porn I would rather he doesn’t feel the need to hide it, because he is going to shamed by his wife. Is there any ability to compromise, such that you can both get your needs met and still have a little personal freedom? It’s like everything in marriage, one can not dictate to the other... and if they do, it tends to create resentment and conflict. 

[thefooloftheyear]

50 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

My humble opinion, if he’s going to watch porn I would rather he doesn’t feel the need to hide it, because he is going to shamed by his wife. Is there any ability to compromise, such that you can both get your needs met and still have a little personal freedom? It’s like everything in marriage, one can not dictate to the other... and if they do, it tends to create resentment and conflict. 

I am actually quite surprised how many women seem to feel the problem mainly lies with the OP...

Even on the most basic of levels, getting off to someone that probably looks a thousand times more sexy/attractive than a typical partner is going to make that woman feel pretty shytty about herself, I don't care how much she thinks she's enlightened/accepting of it....At what point is it just outright horribly inconsiderate.??  I mean, let's be honest here, no guy with a two inch dick is going to want to see her display case of foot long dildos, right??...I'd see that as the exact same thing....

So at that point, the best option is make it go away by making sure she never sees it...or give it up entirely, if that's possible...This whole concept of forcing someone to accept some type of behavior because it's "just what all men do"...is just kinda crazy..IMO...

TFY

 

[BaileyB]

11 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

This whole concept of forcing someone to accept some type of behavior because it's "just what all men do"...is just kinda crazy..IMO...

What if the roles were reversed? If a woman reads a romance novel, or erotica, or watches a rom-com, or porn - is that acceptable behavior? Or are men threatened by this too? Is it something they should never have to see, or give up entirely? Just curious... 

Edited May 17, 2020 by BaileyB

[thefooloftheyear]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

What if the roles were reversed? If a woman reads a romance novel, or erotica, or watches a rom-com, or porn - is that acceptable behavior? Or are men threatened by this too? Is it something they should never have to see, or give up entirely? Just curious... 

I'd like to think the same basic considerations should be applied...No one says it's totally unacceptable(well, at least not me), but its not that hard to do it on the down low and don't make it something that someone should just allow/accept, but rather something that someone does  in private and out of the realm of the other persons plain sight or to be done while they are around...And I don't think romance novels/erotica are on the same level as hardcore porn...The main issue I think for most women is the body image problem...Men don't suffer the same hang ups..

No one is ever in another person's space every minute of every day...and then it also calls into question what I mentioned before, how people don't put enough weight on pure sexual attraction when selecting a mate...Many of these problems would likely not exist in that case...Women who are highly sexually charged by their men, don't look for other options to get off....Not IME anyway...

TFY

[BaileyB]

27 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I don't think romance novels/erotica are on the same level as hardcore porn...

You have obviously never read erotica... considering that men are primarily turned on by visual stimulation, and women are primarily turned on by their brain... there is a reason for their existence, let’s just say. 

Quote

Women who are highly sexually charged by their men, don't look for other options to get off....Not IME anyway...

I disagree.  Let’s consider the woman who is sexually attracted to her man,  it he is unavailable, uninterested, does not share the same drive, unable to perform... lots of women watch porn. Lots of couples watch porn, together. 

I don’t disagree with your main point, just because he does it does not mean that he needs to flaunt it. There are things that can be done in the privacy of a bedroom or a bathroom. My point, just because she doesn’t like it does not mean that she has to shame him for doing what is pretty typical behavior for many people - men and women. He shouldn’t have to hide it, although he will likely want to do it privately. She isn’t serving herself well if she tries to place restrictions on such behavior, It’s not really her place to tell him what he can and cannot do with his body and it’s pretty unrealistic to think that a man is NEVER going to look at porn. Most definitely, if it’s happening all the time or if it’s impacting their sex life, that’s a problem. But, in marriage you have to pick your battles wisely and I’m not sure that this is one that I personally would pick. But, it’s not my opinion that matters...

Edited May 17, 2020 by BaileyB

[thefooloftheyear]

14 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You have obviously never read erotica... considering that men are primarily turned on by visual stimulation, and women are primarily turned on by their brain... there is a reason for their existence, let’s just say. 

I disagree.  Let’s consider the woman who is sexually attracted to her man,  it he is unavailable, uninterested, does not share the same drive, unable to perform... lots of women watch porn. Lots of couples watch porn, together. 

I don’t disagree with your main point, just because he does it does not mean that he needs to flaunt it. There are things that can be done in the privacy of a bedroom or a bathroom. My point, just because she doesn’t like it does not mean that she has to shame him for doing what is pretty typical behavior for many people - men and women. She also isn’t serving herself well if she tries to place restrictions on such behavior, It’s not really her place to tell him what he can and cannot do with his body and it’s pretty unrealistic to think that a man is NEVER going to look at porn. Most definitely, if it’s happening all the time or if it’s impacting their sex life, that’s a problem. But, in marriage you have to pick your battles wisely and I’m not sure that this is one that I personally would pick. To each their own...

Fair enough...You are right, I have never read erotica...But if a woman is sexually interested in her man, and there are all those other problems you mentioned, then porn use is a moot point....the relationship is pretty much done at that point...no need to be concerned any longer...I've always had this hunch that most people with bedroom problems didn't pick a mate carefully enough to address this concern...

And I do agree that the OP has taken it to another level in terms of how she is handling it....But only because he's too stupid or inconsiderate about what he's actually doing...And  nowhere did I say that men aren't supposed to be looking at anything...

I dunno….I just  think guys need to be more careful about this stuff...and not expect a woman to just accept it...I think the body image thing is a huge concern...Like the dildo reference...I know most guys if put in that situation would be absolutely crushed...And I think that's about the most valid of comparisons I can think of...

So just out of curiosity, you would be absolutely fine if all the women in the porn videos or images your guy is viewing look way better than you do, have way better bodies than you do, way bigger breasts, etc??  That wouldn't bother you one bit??

TFY

Edited May 17, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[elaine567]

26 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

And I don't think romance novels/erotica are on the same level as hardcore porn..

Either do I.
Erotica is erotica, there are no real people involved.
Porn is full of real women, real situations and even real contact if desired...
OK there is a lot of acting involved but that male desire that attraction that lust is directed at real living, breathing women, they are not made up characters in a book...
For a woman with a post-baby body she is going to feel she can never compete and she is probably correct.
No-one wants to feel like that.
I know women are now "supposed to" just accept their man is lusting after porn queens most of the time and accept that he is "making do" with her, but this obsession with porn is not doing many relationships a lot of good.
 

[Tamfana]

23 hours ago, salparadise said:

Seriously?

If that's the case, then why can't he? If she's that jealous of him looking at other women, I've got the perfect solution... buy a good video camera and a selection of toys and costumes and crank up action. Then he can watch without "cheating."

I feel for her in the sense that her puritanical beliefs are causing her so much distress and putting extreme pressure on this marriage... but this is all in HER head. Men watch porn, men masturbate. The chance of her ever encountering one who does neither is so close to zero that it doesn't even count. The solution is for her to change these irrational beliefs and accept her husband as a good, loving, normal man.

Let's not be naive about who the one with the obsession is here.

He can.  

My parents were/are verbally abusive to each other and everyone.  Name-calling and gratuitous insults are a 100% dealbreaker for me but that doesn't preclude a BF or husband from having dealbreakers too.

If a guy I'm seeing puts people down or makes mean jokes at others' expense when he's upset, we DEFINITELY shouldn't get married.  

She told him before they married and I believe he agreed and proceeded to marry her.  Personal boundaries and standards are pretty normal.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Tamfana

[salparadise]

2 hours ago, Tamfana said:

She told him before they married and I believe he agreed and proceeded to marry her.  Personal boundaries and standards are pretty normal.

Yea, I know. Theoretically you could say it's all his fault, which you seem to be doing. He agreed not to masturbate, and now she's listening at the bathroom door and raising holy hell if he locks it behind him so she can't catch him in the act! This is just insanity. It's a normal, bodily function for heaven's sake –– not all that different from other things one does in the privacy of the bathroom. Do you actually believe that he must never do it again because she's obsessed and intent on enforcing it? It feels like a gender allegiance stand, and I don't think you're able to see this situation objectively. So why don't you say exactly what you believe the solution should be, as opposed to attributing blame for the discord? I'll grant you that he should not have agreed.

[Tamfana]

Sure. To me, the first step for a solution is to not lie and sneak around and instead really talk to her, listen, converse, try to understand each other.    

Edited May 17, 2020 by Tamfana