So about masks and face coverings

[heartwhole2]

When I go somewhere where I am less concerned about the risk to me (visiting my mother, doing something outside with non-family members), I wear any fabric mask. When I am concerned about what I could be breathing in, I wear an N95 or a well-fitting cloth mask with a disposable filter. I also have safety glasses to shield my eyes but TBH I haven't worn them yet. Quick visits to larger spaces like the grocery store are not as risky as longer visits in inclosed or smaller spaces, but I will always avoid going inside a place if I can.

Since there is a such a long period when people are asymptomatic, and since some people remain asymptomatic but are contagious, and since we can't know if we are one of those unlucky people with a higher viral load who can be a "super spreader," it's a small inconvenience to wear a mask in public. It also encourages others to wear a mask, which can in turn protect us. I'm not going to risk infecting my mother who is in a bracket of double-digits mortality just because someone on the internet said it was pseudo-science. It's not like I'm taking a bath in bleach; I'm putting a piece of fabric on my face and going about my business. The downside is negligible and the cost of being wrong is potentially your life or someone else's. 

Unfortunately, instead of saying, "We have a PPE shortage so they should be reserved for essential personnel," the US government misled the public by suggesting that masks do nothing. Then they had to reverse course when the evidence clearly showed otherwise, but by then the damage had been done. 

From what I've read, the viral load matters for whether you get sick or not. You can breathe a small bit of virus over and over 100x or get a larger blast of virus over 10 breaths with the same results. So while wearing a mask will certainly not reduce your exposure to 0, it will reduce the amount of the virus that you breathe in which may keep you from tipping over into infection.

 

[basil67]

I’m going from information on reputable medical websites.  

[elaine567]

This is a pic of the size of the virus in relation to a pollen grain.

https://i.redd.it/1qbgfkc3vop41.jpg

No fabric mask will stop that getting through if it wants to.
 

[Juha]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

I’m going from information on reputable medical websites.  

As I said you can believe what you want it is your right.  I am not sure what you are calling reputable.

 

All my research is with known doctors/researchers, etc that deal with viruses, infectious disease for their career

They have studied this their whole career.  This is what they do day in and day out for years.  

Think I will believe them over politicians, public health officials, WHO, CDC, etc. as those entities not reliable to be perfectly honest.

They have agenda's, are controlled by certain people, have personal interests in outcomes and vaccines, etc.

 

You don't have to believe me, does not matter to me.  Just trying to help people.

As I said if you want to know the scientific facts it is out there, if you really want to know

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Juha

[sothereiwas]

11 hours ago, basil67 said:

I’m going from information on reputable medical websites.  

That's all dandy, but it's probably good to exercise the memory and remember those same sites were probably saying masks were not of much value only a few weeks ago. I can certainly remember this. 

[NuevoYorko]

12 hours ago, Juha said:

You can believe what you want.  Cloth masks do nothing to be perfectly honest.

 

Yes, they do.  The main way this disease is spread person to person is through droplet spray; hence the "6' rule."  If I am wearing a mask, even a halfassed one,  much less saliva will be spewing from my mouth when I'm breathing, talking or, heaven forbid, if I sneeze or cough.  Therefore other people will not be subjected to my saliva droplets.  

That is not "pseudo science."  

[basil67]

8 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

That's all dandy, but it's probably good to exercise the memory and remember those same sites were probably saying masks were not of much value only a few weeks ago. I can certainly remember this. 

We have been on a massive learning curve during this.  Not sure what your point is.  I'm not going to hold increased knowledge against anyone.

[basil67]

9 hours ago, Juha said:

You don't have to believe me, does not matter to me.  Just trying to help people.

Many are happily wearing masks.  Even if you are right and they make no difference, they certainly aren't making matters worse.  So how are you "helping"?  

[sothereiwas]

18 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Not sure what your point is. 

You know the saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. The Who had something to say about the WHO as well, as I recall. 

[amaysngrace]

If everyone just takes their temperature daily they’ll know if they’re shedding the virus to others. 

If you have a fever stay home.

[basil67]

6 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

You know the saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. The Who had something to say about the WHO as well, as I recall. 

I'd rather listen to researchers who are learning and sharing increased knowledge than make my own rubbish up.

Back in the day, we'd pop an antibiotic every time we got a cold.  Now we know not to do that (and I still have to remind my mother of this every time she says I should go to the Dr because I've got a heavy cold).  I would be a fool to not trust all doctors because 20 years ago we didn't know what we know now.

[basil67]

10 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

If everyone just takes their temperature daily they’ll know if they’re shedding the virus to others. 

If you have a fever stay home.

That only works if a fever is present.  One young friend had it an his only sign was loss of taste and a bit of fatigue. No fever.

Edited May 16, 2020 by basil67

[sothereiwas]

19 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Back in the day, we'd pop an antibiotic every time we got a cold.

Pretty sure we always knew not to do that, for sure 20 years ago. I've been around a while and I've never had a Dr recommend antibiotics for a viral infection unless I'd picked up an opportunistic bacteria or something. They lied to us. They knew what was what, and they lied. Are they telling the truth now? Maybe. Maybe it's like the TSA and it's mostly there to get people back flying. 

[amaysngrace]

28 minutes ago, basil67 said:

That only works if a fever is present.  One young friend had it an his only sign was loss of taste and a bit of fatigue. No fever.

Well then he should stay home too.

[basil67]

22 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

Well then he should stay home too.

Of course he's staying home.    My point is that taking a temperature is not a foolproof way of finding out who is shedding the virus.

[basil67]

31 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

Pretty sure we always knew not to do that, for sure 20 years ago. I've been around a while and I've never had a Dr recommend antibiotics for a viral infection unless I'd picked up an opportunistic bacteria or something. They lied to us. They knew what was what, and they lied. Are they telling the truth now? Maybe. Maybe it's like the TSA and it's mostly there to get people back flying. 

Ok, then 35 years ago.  But my 80yo mother remembers having them and I suspect that medical science has developed a long way since penicillin was discovered.  Further than that, I'm not doing the whole conspiracy theory stuff with you.  

[Juha]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

Many are happily wearing masks.  Even if you are right and they make no difference, they certainly aren't making matters worse.  So how are you "helping"?  

People think wearing a mask is protection, false sense of security. 

Wearing masks is not really good for you either, so yes they can make things worse.

 

As I said do some real research, I doubt you will , like most people they just listen to talking heads and believe it.

If you wanted the truth you would look for it.

 

You can believe what you want, just trying to educate people. 

Everyone is going to believe what they want anyway, true or not...

[basil67]

I’m not saying that it gives me protection.   I’m saying that we wear them to help protect others.  I  seriously doubt that you can find data to prove that a big covid sneeze with a mask on will send droplets as far as someone who sneezes without a mask.

Do you also refuse a mask and goggles when working with hazardous substances?  Toxic chemicals and asbestos being common examples.  

Edited May 17, 2020 by basil67

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 5/16/2020 at 4:15 PM, sothereiwas said:

You know the saying, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. The Who had something to say about the WHO as well, as I recall. 

Fooling us to what end?

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 5/16/2020 at 8:21 PM, basil67 said:

I’m not saying that it gives me protection.   I’m saying that we wear them to help protect others.  I  seriously doubt that you can find data to prove that a big covid sneeze with a mask on will send droplets as far as someone who sneezes without a mask.

Do you also refuse a mask and goggles when working with hazardous substances?  Toxic chemicals and asbestos being common examples.  

 

On 5/16/2020 at 8:12 PM, Juha said:

People think wearing a mask is protection, false sense of security. 

Wearing masks is not really good for you either, so yes they can make things worse.

 

As I said do some real research, I doubt you will , like most people they just listen to talking heads and believe it.

If you wanted the truth you would look for it.

 

You can believe what you want, just trying to educate people. 

Everyone is going to believe what they want anyway, true or not...

We ARE doing real research. Where is your real research? Show it already. If your interest is in helping people then name the paper. I do not understand why you refuse to do this. You insult us, you claim we're ignorant intimate that we're lazy and your proof is that...we listen to infectious disease experts? Okay. WHERE is the research you keep hinting at? this is NOT hard! Name the study, it will take you literally three seconds. What is the study???? ETA: sorry, did not mean to also quote @basil67. I'm not sure why that happened.

Edited May 18, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[elaine567]

On 5/17/2020 at 4:21 AM, basil67 said:

Do you also refuse a mask and goggles when working with hazardous substances?  Toxic chemicals and asbestos being common examples.

People use scientifically  proven respirator masks when dealing with asbestos and the like.
They are not using scarves and cloth masks.
The smallest asbestos particles are 3-4 times bigger than the coronavirus.
I agree masks will prevent someone being deluged with infected droplets, but the virus itself is very capable of getting through a non professional mask especially if there is force behind it ie in sneezing or coughing or just breathing.
People have to be very careful handling masks, as all the potential benefits can be rendered useless with one touch of the outside of the mask and then eating or rubbing an itchy eye.

[schlumpy]

I know a little about face masks as I had half-face respirator to protect against asbestos exposure. It sealed very tightly around my nose and mouth. If you didn't shave it was useless. Right now I'm using a molded rubber mask that fits tightly around the mouth and nose. It has a filter material that is clamped into the front of it. Knowing what I do about viruses I'm not that confident in what benefit I get from it. I only know I have to do whatever is possible to protect my wife from infection.

I spite of our advanced medical knowledge, humankind is still helpless when faced with an aggressive virus. God offers as much protection as any of our experts.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

People use scientifically  proven respirator masks when dealing with asbestos and the like.
They are not using scarves and cloth masks.
The smallest asbestos particles are 3-4 times bigger than the coronavirus.
I agree masks will prevent someone being deluged with infected droplets, but the virus itself is very capable of getting through a non professional mask especially if there is force behind it ie in sneezing or coughing or just breathing.
People have to be very careful handling masks, as all the potential benefits can be rendered useless with one touch of the outside of the mask and then eating or rubbing an itchy eye.

 I’ve made it quite clear that home made masks don’t protect the wearer, but are to protect others, hence the droplet spray discussion on which we agree.  I wouldn’t use a home made mask to protect myself when working with toxic substances or germs.  

Where I was going with the professional level masks is that Juha hasn’t made any concession to them having any use whatsoever, despite front line medical staff not catching the virus as easy as the rest of us.  If she feels that even the professional masks are useless, I couldn’t help but wonder if she would use them when recommended in other situations.  

Edited May 18, 2020 by basil67

[basil67]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

I know a little about face masks as I had half-face respirator to protect against asbestos exposure. It sealed very tightly around my nose and mouth. If you didn't shave it was useless. 

Terrible stuff is asbestos.  Lost a friend to mesothelioma last year - she got it from classrooms where she taught.  My dad used to work in power stations and talks of the apprentices having snowball fights with it.  A story I’ve heard repeated from other electricians.   Glad there’s much better knowledge now.

[Redhead14]

On 5/18/2020 at 7:59 AM, basil67 said:

 I’ve made it quite clear that home made masks don’t protect the wearer, but are to protect others, hence the droplet spray discussion on which we agree.  I wouldn’t use a home made mask to protect myself when working with toxic substances or germs.  

Where I was going with the professional level masks is that Juha hasn’t made any concession to them having any use whatsoever, despite front line medical staff not catching the virus as easy as the rest of us.  If she feels that even the professional masks are useless, I couldn’t help but wonder if she would use them when recommended in other situations.  

If wearing masks protects others, it ultimately protects us as well by reducing the contaminants we are exposed to . . . it's a circular benefit.