Attraction to emotionally unavailable men=I'm unavailable

[Emilie Jolie]

4 hours ago, 40Something said:

Hi Emilie

Both men were divorced for 10yrs+ and eternally single when i met them. If i was prepared to stick around without further progression of the relationship they would have been quite happy with that. We were very compatible. It was usually at this point I would get the "i love you but never will never live/get married ever again" conversation.

So perhaps I'm attracted to commitment phobes?

Sure. Or perhaps your picker is wrong? 

Either way, you left 2 very compatible men while in your 40s after 1 or 2 years because they didn't want marriage; which presumably means you do - so I guess you're not emotionally unavailable yourself, right?  

I mean 2 10+ years divorced eternally single guys in their 40s is really unlucky but it's not a pattern. It's just 2 men. In 8 years. Did neither of them have any RL whatsoever (other than with you) in the 10+ years they were single? 

Were they introduced to your kids?

[Weezy1973]

5 hours ago, 40Something said:

Weezy, you might be on to something here. I had a traumatic divorce. My ex-husband had a baby with his mistress. I was totally blind sided. 

It takes a while before I drop my walls and let someone in. Am i perhaps then not as open to being vulnerable as i think I am?

Perhaps I fall for these guys because they are "safe" to me.

Yes, I suspect so. You were hurt, and likely said to yourself “ this will never happen to me again”. Maybe not consciously, but your defense mechanisms are probably in high alert.

The cornerstone of any intimate relationship is trust. If you’re afraid to get hurt, you won’t be able to trust. To really be able to trust, you have to risk the possibility of getting hurt.

[Cookiesandough]

6 hours ago, 40Something said:

Thanks Cookie

I can for sure say that its not wanting what I cant have. 

I seem to attract lots of interest from men, but i end up falling for the "difficult" ones. Men who are single, but have commitment issues. Perhaps they are my "safe" zones?

Perhaps. But I don’t see how guys who have “commitment issues” are safe? They seems like falling for them would lead to heart break...

[Cookiesandough]

14 hours ago, nospam99 said:

With covid isolation forcing a dating hiatus, I've been giving a lot of thought to my attitude about 'another' relationship.

A couple of years ago I was dating a woman who felt 'very special' to me. I have posted enough (several topics, dozens or maybe hundreds by now of posts) that bringing this previous relationship up again will probably bore readers who recognize my story. (It's over, nospam. Move on already!) The thing is that I was so fond of this woman who is now lost in my past that any thought of a new relationship makes me feel 'empty'. While I believe I could form and enjoy a new relationship and be a committed friend, companion, and lover, I'm not confident that I'd ever be 'satisfied'. Looking at the idea now, admittedly NOT in a relationship, feels like just 'going through the motions'.

I see that as making me emotionally unavailable.Do others agree? Is this a general model of men (women too?) being emotionally unavailable?

I think you’re just missing the right woman. Because that has happened to me before. Several years ago I was really stuck on an ex who I messed things up with,.,,I couldn’t get over it and how I messed up, I’d never move on, thought he was the greatest thing ever until we got back together then I realized our relationship sucked, back and forth that way. I took some space and improved myself, may way better guys who were just a better match for me, and now I’m thinking, “ex who?” So I think when you meet the next right woman all that will change ! 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[poppyfields]

6 hours ago, 40Something said:

Hi Poppy

This is kinda exactly what my mom said. That i think I want commitment, but I really don't. I have a lot of unpacking to do.

There is a great book that might help you unravel and understand your own fears and the fears of the unavailable man.

It's entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared, the Hidden Fears that Sabotage our Relationships." 

Great read!  I learned a lot from it, mostly about myself and my own fears, commitment issues. 

I highly recommend, you can google it, order on Amazon.com.

Enjoy!  You'll figure it out, I did!  

[40Something]

2 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Sure. Or perhaps your picker is wrong? 

Either way, you left 2 very compatible men while in your 40s after 1 or 2 years because they didn't want marriage; which presumably means you do - so I guess you're not emotionally unavailable yourself, right?  

I mean 2 10+ years divorced eternally single guys in their 40s is really unlucky but it's not a pattern. It's just 2 men. In 8 years. Did neither of them have any RL whatsoever (other than with you) in the 10+ years they were single? 

Were they introduced to your kids?

I don't necessarily want marriage but i'm not opposed to it either. Its more of an emotional commitment I am referring to. At a certain point you can feel that the relationship is not progressing.

Yes they met my kids but our lives never became integrated at any point. I think this is what bugged me. It felt like never ending first dates. Everyone knew we were together, but it never felt like a true relationship.

[40Something]

13 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

There is a great book that might help you unravel and understand your own fears and the fears of the unavailable man.

It's entitled "He's Scared, She's Scared, the Hidden Fears that Sabotage our Relationships." 

Great read!  I learned a lot from it, mostly about myself and my own fears, commitment issues. 

I highly recommend, you can google it, order on Amazon.com.

Enjoy!  You'll figure it out, I did!  

Thanks, will definitely go have a look for the book.

[Lotsgoingon]

40Something, I also love people and ended up in relationships that didn't work. 

Here's a way that helped me look at things. On a good date ... or a meeting with a person who is a good fit for me ... or I can extend this ... for the first six months of being with someone, I should NOT have to work hard. Not at all.  I do not have to be at my best. I could be a little tired on the date ... or be coming from a frustrating day at work ...  If this other person is a good fit, that won't ruin things because the other person will just easily "get me." 

You don't have to talk yourself or think yourself into clicking with someone. You'll feel it, you'll feel in sync with the person, viscerally. And note: none of this guarantees a successful relationship. You still have to go to the next step, next date, again ... and run the tests again ... Rinse and repeat.

BTW: most dates should fail (by fail I mean you decide you don't want a second date) because we are not compatible with most people. We all are looking for a small number of people who REALLY get us, who really excite us, and who really have a lot to offer us. You want someone who sees you as amazing, and you can feel that if you practice paying attention. 

I came from a family that was really into liking everyone ... I have a job that deals with people and my instinctive love of people is so helpful. Dating is different. Dating is finding a small number of people who you click with deeply! Liking someone means you can have a good dinner with them ... and if they're attractive enough ... hey, making out and sex can be good. But if you're looking for a relationship, the standard is much higher. 

When you're out with someone, just relax ... You don't have to perform ...  If you're not blown away by the way they think or the way they talk ... or the way they live their lives ... if you don't LOVE their smile and the energy ... if you don't feel seriously attracted to them ...  they are not going to be right for a relationship. And let your critical mind work even after a great date. There are even times when in the moment, I'm blown away ... but then I come back home and I just let myself be honest and something doesn't feel right. Or some little comment they made sounded a little mean ... or I didn't really understand their thinking about something they said. Bookmark the stuff that doesn't quite sit right with you--even if you don't know why you feel like you do. If the bookmarked stuff isn't a problem, it won't recur, you won't have that odd feeling or worry again as you get to know them better. So being critical does not mean being needlessly negative and petty.

And know that you can pause or stop ... so you want to commit to the next date ... the next month ... but give yourself full permission to be evaluating. 

Bottom line: relax when you go out ... and don't force things. It should be overwhelming obvious that you want to see the person again. Any hesitation is a no.

It's funny: this way of dating actually lowers the pressure. 

 

[40Something]

14 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

40Something, I also love people and ended up in relationships that didn't work. 

Here's a way that helped me look at things. On a good date ... or a meeting with a person who is a good fit for me ... or I can extend this ... for the first six months of being with someone, I should NOT have to work hard. Not at all.  I do not have to be at my best. I could be a little tired on the date ... or be coming from a frustrating day at work ...  If this other person is a good fit, that won't ruin things because the other person will just easily "get me." 

You don't have to talk yourself or think yourself into clicking with someone. You'll feel it, you'll feel in sync with the person, viscerally. And note: none of this guarantees a successful relationship. You still have to go to the next step, next date, again ... and run the tests again ... Rinse and repeat.

BTW: most dates should fail (by fail I mean you decide you don't want a second date) because we are not compatible with most people. We all are looking for a small number of people who REALLY get us, who really excite us, and who really have a lot to offer us. You want someone who sees you as amazing, and you can feel that if you practice paying attention. 

I came from a family that was really into liking everyone ... I have a job that deals with people and my instinctive love of people is so helpful. Dating is different. Dating is finding a small number of people who you click with deeply! Liking someone means you can have a good dinner with them ... and if they're attractive enough ... hey, making out and sex can be good. But if you're looking for a relationship, the standard is much higher. 

When you're out with someone, just relax ... You don't have to perform ...  If you're not blown away by the way they think or the way they talk ... or the way they live their lives ... if you don't LOVE their smile and the energy ... if you don't feel seriously attracted to them ...  they are not going to be right for a relationship. And let your critical mind work even after a great date. There are even times when in the moment, I'm blown away ... but then I come back home and I just let myself be honest and something doesn't feel right. Or some little comment they made sounded a little mean ... or I didn't really understand their thinking about something they said. Bookmark the stuff that doesn't quite sit right with you--even if you don't know why you feel like you do. If the bookmarked stuff isn't a problem, it won't recur, you won't have that odd feeling or worry again as you get to know them better. So being critical does not mean being needlessly negative and petty.

And know that you can pause or stop ... so you want to commit to the next date ... the next month ... but give yourself full permission to be evaluating. 

Bottom line: relax when you go out ... and don't force things. It should be overwhelming obvious that you want to see the person again. Any hesitation is a no.

It's funny: this way of dating actually lowers the pressure. 

 

Great advice thanks. My family is much the same. Lots of people around and everyone is welcome.

I am quite picky when it comes to dating. The 2 longish relationships and lots of first coffee dates. I bolt at the sign of a red flag or in the event that I don't feel any connection to the date.

Its just strange to me that the men i have connections with, also seem to be the ones realistically i could not have a future with ( single for years,apparent commitment issues ).

I'm taking a break from dating but will keep what you've said in mind for future dates

[chillii]

 

lt's not always commitment issues as women like to call it. Both guys might just not have felt there was enough there between you , with you.  No way l would've committed if it wasn't enough but it can take awhile to realize that.

At any rate , you talk about what you both want out of life and love in the future when you connect with someone early in and hopefully your both honest about things. l'd had had no qualms admitting it if l didn't want anything serious .

[elaine567]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:57 AM, 40Something said:

Both men were divorced for 10yrs+ and eternally single when i met them

So no real surprise when the relationships went nowhere, but I can see why you chose them.
You thought all their emotional baggage would be behind them  and they would be open to a new relationship. 
But no, they had morphed into guys who were happy to see how it goes, no commitment necessary or looked for.
"i love you but never will never live/get married ever again"  is not that an uncommon feeling in divorced men.
They actually remained "eternally single", whilst you provided some entertainment and distraction.

You may have chosen "safe", in that you knew there would be no pressure from  these guys to walk you up the aisle, but then maybe you felt a little empty when they didn't even try.
Or you may have seen them as a challenge a project and when it didn't work out, you binned them...
I see you always fall for the "difficult ones"
Are you setting yourself challenges and projects or are you setting yourself up to fail or are you trying to right FOO issues.
Was your father or some other family member "difficult" so that you felt you had to "win" them over and you are still doing it in your relationships...

Relationships always need to progress in some way, so I do not really see it as "pathological" to move on when a relationship stalls for whatever reason.
 

Edited May 21, 2020 by elaine567

[40Something]

50 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So no real surprise when the relationships went nowhere, but I can see why you chose them.
You thought all their emotional baggage would be behind them  and they would be open to a new relationship. 
But no, they had morphed into guys who were happy to see how it goes, no commitment necessary or looked for.
"i love you but never will never live/get married ever again"  is not that an uncommon feeling in divorced men.
They actually remained "eternally single", whilst you provided some entertainment and distraction.

You may have chosen "safe", in that you knew there would be no pressure from  these guys to walk you up the aisle, but then maybe you felt a little empty when they didn't even try.
Or you may have seen them as a challenge a project and when it didn't work out, you binned them...
I see you always fall for the "difficult ones"
Are you setting yourself challenges and projects or are you setting yourself up to fail or are you trying to right FOO issues.
Was your father or some other family member "difficult" so that you felt you had to "win" them over and you are still doing it in your relationships...

Relationships always need to progress in some way, so I do not really see it as "pathological" to move on when a relationship stalls for whatever reason.
 

I don't think it relates to FOO issues but who knows. My parents has a great marriage till my dad passed away. My family life was stable and i had a great childhood.

I think I make it easy for these type of guys because I'm a very busy mom. I have a full time job, i have part time volunteering commitments and my kids are very active in sport. So my demands for their time have been low. I've just realized that I've been allowing these guys to get away with not committing....I never really expected much from them.

[40Something]

2 hours ago, chillii said:

 

lt's not always commitment issues as women like to call it. Both guys might just not have felt there was enough there between you , with you.  No way l would've committed if it wasn't enough but it can take awhile to realize that.

At any rate , you talk about what you both want out of life and love in the future when you connect with someone early in and hopefully your both honest about things. l'd had had no qualms admitting it if l didn't want anything serious .

Could very well be true. What i need to start doing is to run when i hear things like : Not right now but I'm not ruling it out in future

[elaine567]

35 minutes ago, 40Something said:

I think I make it easy for these type of guys because I'm a very busy mom. I have a full time job, i have part time volunteering commitments and my kids are very active in sport. So my demands for their time have been low. I've just realized that I've been allowing these guys to get away with not committing....I never really expected much from them.

Yes you did make it easy.
Some guys will seek out single Mums in particular as these women are busy and are not constantly on their back seeking attention, attention they do not want to be bothered with.
Dates and sex and little hassle and no commitment, what's not to like?
i am not saying these guys were doing this, but some will have loads of time for other women too...

[40Something]

44 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Yes you did make it easy.
Some guys will seek out single Mums in particular as these women are busy and are not constantly on their back seeking attention, attention they do not want to be bothered with.
Dates and sex and little hassle and no commitment, what's not to like?
i am not saying these guys were doing this, but some will have loads of time for other women too...

Very true. And it suited me....until it no longer did.

Sometimes one cant see the forest for the trees.

[Cookiesandough]

So what about you... do you wanna commit or not. Imagine one of the aforementioned men called you up tomorrow and asked you to give it a fair shot of being his gf ... exclusive... all in... vulnerabilities all out there and vice versa. What do you think you would do 

[chillii]

 

That's what l was wondering too tbh op you hardly seem ready to race down the alter again either, which could be your answer .

[poppyfields]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:43 AM, Cookiesandough said:

Perhaps. But I don’t see how guys who have “commitment issues” are safe? They seems like falling for them would lead to heart break...

They're "safe" to a woman who shares his commitment fears/issues as there is no threat of being pushed into a commitment!  Like there would be with a guy who wasn't commitmentphobe and wanted a commitment. 

Makes perfect sense to me..

Much of this is subconscious; I'm glad the OP is exploring all this, that is the first step in resolving these often deep rooted fears and issues.

Edited May 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[40Something]

16 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

So what about you... do you wanna commit or not. Imagine one of the aforementioned men called you up tomorrow and asked you to give it a fair shot of being his gf ... exclusive... all in... vulnerabilities all out there and vice versa. What do you think you would do 

I'm actually not sure what I would do. My sister bluntly told me that I am too set in my ways and not sure why I want a relationship since I'm used to being on my own.

That's what I'm exploring....I often long for that relationship, but I'm not unhappy with my life either. 

[40Something]

15 hours ago, chillii said:

 

That's what l was wondering too tbh op you hardly seem ready to race down the alter again either, which could be your answer .

When i think of commitment its more emotional. Knowing that you have someone who has your back,some you can depend on. I'm not opposed to getting married again,I just wont do it blindly ever again.

[40Something]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

They're "safe" to a woman who shares his commitment fears/issues as there is no threat of being pushed into a commitment!  Like there would be with a guy who wasn't commitmentphobe and wanted a commitment. 

Makes perfect sense to me..

Much of this is subconscious; I'm glad the OP is exploring all this, that is the first step in resolving these often deep rooted fears and issues.

Precisely my mom's take on my emotional state. That in my mind I want a committed relationship, but my choice in men says otherwise. 

 

[Cookiesandough]

15 hours ago, poppyfields said:

They're "safe" to a woman who shares his commitment fears/issues as there is no threat of being pushed into a commitment!  Like there would be with a guy who wasn't commitmentphobe and wanted a commitment. 

Makes perfect sense to me..

Much of this is subconscious; I'm glad the OP is exploring all this, that is the first step in resolving these often deep rooted fears and issues.

Oh well you can also say you’re not ready. Most will accept that, at least for a while.  If they don’t, I just say bye-bye 👋🏻 When they try to push for commitment you’re not  ready for.... been there done that and it’s easy to just fall into if you don’t keep your boundaries strong and your wits about you 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Cookiesandough