Separated from wife but lockdown prevents him moving out

[BaileyB]

I tend to agree with heartwhole, while calling him a psychopath may feel good... he is no more of a psychopath than you are a “home wrecker.” You are simply two people who had an attraction for each other/developed feelings and followed those good feelings... seeking to escape if only for as long as the reality of the situation be denied. Sure, you have taken the steps to try and make this fantasy your reality. But, he has not - yet. And if he doesn’t leave his wife, it will not be the end of the world. You will no doubt move on, wiser and stronger for having had this experience.

Kiki, you seem like a well meaning and lovely person. I think you are making some poor choices here, but nobody moves through this life without making mistakes/learning the lessons that need to be learned. Further to what heartwhole said, I really think you would be wise to take some distance, at least during this waiting time. Focus on your own well being, spend time with your children, and try to look big picture. When you are in the middle of a situation, it’s impossible to have a clear view of the situation and make decisions. It’s like, you can’t see the forrest for the trees. Perhaps with time, you will decide that you don’t need this stress and the complication of a man going through his own divorce in your life. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by BaileyB

[S2B]

He is either going to move and divorce or he’s not. You being actively involved isn’t pertinent to him getting this finalized.

step away while he sifts through his past. IF he really wants to be with you he will can’t t you when his chaos settles down.

for now he should have time to focus on getting things done. You don’t need to hold his hand while he does this.

you’ll find out if he intends to divorce her or not.

proper order helps a lot - let him gets things done first.

Edited May 24, 2020 by S2B

[S2B]

Quote

 

   6 hours ago,  Kiki55 said: 

I have just sent him a message saying I am intrigued as to what he thinks he is going to be able to achieve by 5th June..

 

Why are you being so coy and passive?

if you know what you want state that exactly! Either he will or he won’t!

stop playing games when you know what your wishes are.

[Amethyst68]

7 hours ago, S2B said:

Anyone can move TODAY if they REALLY want to move!

any delay means he’s full of crap!

stop waiting! When someone wants to be with another person NOTHING gets in the way! He’s got excuses - stop believing his words/lies.

his actions show what’s real! He is STILL there with his wife!

no rental agreement would mean squat...actually MOVING and getting the divorce finalized shows he will do it! Anything less and he’s just another liar.

start living life! Stop waiting for him to do anything! 

I can't believe I'm defending him but if in UK the lockdown prevents even visiting friends never mind moving in with them and hotels have been closed with talk them reopening in July I believe.

As I mentioned before the MM is risking criminal prosecution each time he goes to OP's house, he probably has a letter stating he's going to his place of employment but it's supposed to be your actual workplace. 

In the UK it's fairly common to rent furnished accommodation across all income levels.

N.B. I'm basing this post on certain things the OP said and phrases used. If not in the UK then please disregard although certainly other places within the EU have similar restrictions, some even stronger.

 

I'm still curious though if he's planning on leaving his family even more completely and moving to your locale (if he goes through with it). Difficult to have that time with children when he's not near them.

Perhaps you could move with your children nearer them, maybe meet halfway to keep it fair.

[Beca L]

7 hours ago, Zona said:

I don't mean this as an insult, but in relationships, I've never found being desperate and clingy helps anything and is almost always counter productive.

Couldn't agree more with this statement. I have found in my most recent experience with my xMM that when I was strong and set down boundaries and lines that i wouldn't cross things tended to go more in my favour. Any time I appeared clingy and desperate xMM backed off. 

Needy, clingy and desperate is not attractive ! 

[Beca L]

6 hours ago, S2B said:

If he rents a furnished place then it is an easy move to go back home - no new furniture paid for and less to lose. 
 

but seriously, IF he separated why wouldn’t he just go now to a hotel or rent a room from a friend? 
it’s easy,  you pack some stuff and move it to a new location. If he needs stuff later he sends for it or returns to pick up another truck load of stuff. 
 

any person - when you REALLY want to leave - you leave immediately. 

I have to agree with S2B. I can understand that because of lock down that it may not be possible to move to a hotel, although you mentioned that you are both key workers and I know that key workers can stay in hotels as my xH had to do this a few weeks ago because of his work as he travelled 250 miles away. So moving to a hotel is a possibility.

You mentioned about the wedding ring, just because he doesn't wear it with you doesn't mean that he doesn't put it back on before he goes home. My xMM stopped wearing his wedding ring after he went back to his wife. He said it was because he knew it upset me seeing him with it on at work. He did this for months, he would leave it in his car and put it on when he got back home!

I think that it may be a good idea to have a serious chat with him on Tuesday about your expectations. Spell it out completely that you don't feel comfortable with things carrying on as they are, be strong, don't get upset. Just state the facts, until he moves out and makes steps to end his marriage then it isn't right that he keep coming to your house, hanging with your kids etc whilst he remains married and living with his wife. It is unfair to everyone involved. 

Hope you are ok today. This is a very stressful time and I understand your pain as I've been there myself but you must not listen to words and empty promises.

Action is what really counts. After all love is a verb !!!

[Amethyst68]

You know I actually had to come back to make a point because I found myself getting so angry about one point.

Your children are still going to school, they are mixing with children of people who work in hospitals, care givers etc, they are essentially quite high risk at catching or carrying the virus.

This MM who should be working at home thinks nothing of risking his family's lives every day he comes to meet you, every day he plays with your children and then goes home to interact with his own family.

The selfishness of both of you is astonishing to me, and yes I'm saying both because as a mother you should have been telling him to stay away until lockdown is over and we all have permission to move about freely.

I take it nobody got ill but if so that's by sheer luck and it's not over yet.

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, Beca L said:

Needy, clingy and desperate is not attractive ! 

It may be unattractive but it also shows weakness.
People who are desperate, people who are "in love", become needy and clingy when it seems they may not be getting what they want. They feel that they are on shaky ground and their instinct it to grab on. 
The other person seeing such behaviour knows they have the upper hand, and can then accept or dismiss those worries and concerns from the other, with impunity.
It is no skin off their nose they are then confident in their position. They have a person in front of them, that they know loves them.
Their ground just became more stable.

Here, the decision is in the hands of the MM.
He calls the shots as Kiki is "desperate"  to make this work..
It all depends on where his head is at as to how he reacts to clinginess.
Clinginess to a person who is all in, can make that person go all gooey and increase feelings of love.
But if a person is not all in or does not want to do what is requested then clinginess can be a great excuse to step back and blame the other for being too clingy.
"I would have left but your "clinginess" made me think again", when in reality they were never leaving...

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 5/20/2020 at 10:54 AM, Kiki55 said:

I have read all the comments and I do accept I need to own my actions in terms of his children and wife. I know all of this sounds so clichè and after reading the comments earlier on, I have broached the subject with him again. This is not a 6 week love affair, we have been friends and colleagues for over 18 months as well. This man is like a mirror image of me. I know I sound delusional and come across as gulable and naive and maybe I am but I have today given him a deadline and he seems happy and has accepted it. This deadline is 2 weeks away, it may seem I have not given him enough time but this is something we have spoken about before. He has accepted the deadline to be in the process of moving out. His concern and reason for the delay so far has been due to the lockdown and the fact she is unable to see any of her friends and family. Financial concerns are not an issue, he is very stable in this field and able to support 2 homes. He does not worry for his kids as he believes it will be better for then in the long run instead of being in an ynhaooy home. I admit that how we have gone about this is all wrong but it has happened now. Just to clarify too, my husband and I are separated. I never cheated on him, I left him. My children adapted very well to the split and said we are both happier apart and I wish the same for my MM kids too. I guess I will continue to check in and update on this situation for those that either want to know if there is hope for a MM to leave and also if there is to be yet another typical heartbroken OW story to tell.   

Amazing how easily you blow off the kids.

[Kiki55]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

It may be unattractive but it also shows weakness.
People who are desperate, people who are "in love", become needy and clingy when it seems they may not be getting what they want. They feel that they are on shaky ground and their instinct it to grab on. 
The other person seeing such behaviour knows they have the upper hand, and can then accept or dismiss those worries and concerns from the other, with impunity.
It is no skin off their nose they are then confident in their position. They have a person in front of them, that they know loves them.
Their ground just became more stable.

Here, the decision is in the hands of the MM.
He calls the shots as Kiki is "desperate"  to make this work..
It all depends on where his head is at as to how he reacts to clinginess.
Clinginess to a person who is all in, can make that person go all gooey and increase feelings of love.
But if a person is not all in or does not want to do what is requested then clinginess can be a great excuse to step back and blame the other for being too clingy.
"I would have left but your "clinginess" made me think again", when in reality they were never leaving...

He doesn't mind if I appear clingy, he can and does also appear clingy too.. if we never had the ties that we do/did the relationship itself would be perfect. I don't feel any shame in sending (for example) 100 messages to him at once and he also doesn't. He shows signs of playful jealousy and likes it if I get like that with him. But obviously, bring the W into it and then it becomes painful. He's continued our normal conversation today, told me to stick with my deadline date (that I had suggested) I know thst he has had many chats with his W about the separation and it's draining for him (he accepts that's what he needs to do, he isn't complaining about this) he said thst this weekend he just wanted to get away and forget about all this tension in his life for a few days. He will be back today and come Tuesday, I am expecting to see him seriously begin the moving out procesd. He said within the first couple of weeks of the split, he could see she was hopefully of reconciliation but he said she is certain now that this is not going to happen. The temperature of this situation has been rising and rising and it's so close to blowing. I don't have long to wait to know his true intentions so I am going to continue as I am. 

[Kiki55]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

You know I actually had to come back to make a point because I found myself getting so angry about one point.

Your children are still going to school, they are mixing with children of people who work in hospitals, care givers etc, they are essentially quite high risk at catching or carrying the virus.

This MM who should be working at home thinks nothing of risking his family's lives every day he comes to meet you, every day he plays with your children and then goes home to interact with his own family.

The selfishness of both of you is astonishing to me, and yes I'm saying both because as a mother you should have been telling him to stay away until lockdown is over and we all have permission to move about freely.

I take it nobody got ill but if so that's by sheer luck and it's not over yet.

Look, not everybody believes what they see in the media. I am sceptical about the virus in general and there are many many people in the world that are. Everybody has an opinion but the surivial rate of this virus is very high. I'm not going to get into this but Please don't tell me I am being selfish by the way I am choosing to live my life. We don't all fall victim to scaremongering by the news. 

[Kiki55]

43 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Amazing how easily you blow off the kids.

I am not blowing off the kids

[Kiki55]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

It may be unattractive but it also shows weakness.
People who are desperate, people who are "in love", become needy and clingy when it seems they may not be getting what they want. They feel that they are on shaky ground and their instinct it to grab on. 
The other person seeing such behaviour knows they have the upper hand, and can then accept or dismiss those worries and concerns from the other, with impunity.
It is no skin off their nose they are then confident in their position. They have a person in front of them, that they know loves them.
Their ground just became more stable.

Here, the decision is in the hands of the MM.
He calls the shots as Kiki is "desperate"  to make this work..
It all depends on where his head is at as to how he reacts to clinginess.
Clinginess to a person who is all in, can make that person go all gooey and increase feelings of love.
But if a person is not all in or does not want to do what is requested then clinginess can be a great excuse to step back and blame the other for being too clingy.
"I would have left but your "clinginess" made me think again", when in reality they were never leaving...

I do agree with this. Whilst overly clingy can be quite suffocating even if you are in love.. you need to show some need for them and this also shows commitment too. He actually comes across more clingy than me at times. 

Upset if I have fallen asleep without saying goodnight. 

If I have missed a message and left a delay between replies.

Gets playfully grumpy if I have to move away from his arm to use the bathroom or make a drink etc.  

I have faith in his love for me... But I am not sure he will be able to uproot his life for me and this is where my heartbreak lies right now. 

[Beca L]

41 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

He doesn't mind if I appear clingy, he can and does also appear clingy too.. if we never had the ties that we do/did the relationship itself would be perfect. I don't feel any shame in sending (for example) 100 messages to him at once and he also doesn't.

I recognise this so much in the early stages of my relationship with xMM. This is the limerence stage, you are both like a pair of teenagers and its not surprising as you may both have been starved of love and emotional intimacy for a long time. However that clinginess and lovey dovey behaviour does not = him taking the appropriate steps to leave his wife and family and start living on his own and planning a future with you. 

 

49 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

he has had many chats with his W about the separation and it's draining for him (he accepts that's what he needs to do, he isn't complaining about this) he said thst this weekend he just wanted to get away and forget about all this tension in his life for a few days.

This is typical of the conflict avoidant. The tension, pain and heartache is the inevitable outcome from a separation and when you are hurting your spouse and telling them you want to leave. Has he actually said to her that he is planning to move out yet ? I doubt that he has, he probably wants to leave it till the night before. This behaviour was typical of my xMM. 

Its always 'Poor old MM' he's going through a tough time, he needs to get away, it's too painful to keep discussing so I won't talk about it with BS for a few day. Delay, delay, putting off the discussions. It's draining !! Boo hoo 

[BaileyB]

53 minutes ago, Beca L said:

However that clinginess and lovey dovey behaviour does not = him taking the appropriate steps to leave his wife and family and start living on his own and planning a future with you. 

It’s also not sustainable. 

Things are about to get REAL soon. He’s already telling you that the stress of separation is too much, he wants to escape. That stress is going to build, it’s not about to go away when he moves out. He will be dealing with the legalities of separation and divorce, custody arrangements, an ex-wife who is struggling, kids who are adapting, and a new woman who has her own expectations. It only gets worse if/when they learn he left to be with another woman. The lovey doves stuff is going to look trivial and insignificant when dealing with the real life experience of divorce. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by BaileyB

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, Kiki55 said:

I am not blowing off the kids

I'm talking about his kids. You were basically like: meh, they'll get used to it. 

[S2B]

2 hours ago, Kiki55 said:

Look, not everybody believes what they see in the media. I am sceptical about the virus in general and there are many many people in the world that are. Everybody has an opinion but the surivial rate of this virus is very high. I'm not going to get into this but Please don't tell me I am being selfish by the way I am choosing to live my life. We don't all fall victim to scaremongering by the news. 

So the lockdown doesn’t keep him from working or visiting you or getting away for a vacation.

why would it keep him from moving?

Edited May 24, 2020 by S2B

[Zona]

Has he been to a solicitor yet to figure out the monetary cost of divorce?  Probably half of his assets, half of his pension, plus alimony and child support. There is also the issue of access to his children which may be severely curtailed in a divorce. These realities are often like a bucket of cold ice water to the face of a MM considering leaving his wife. 

Healthy romantic relationships are built on trust and respect, and they flow naturally without being forced, rushed or manipulated. Both partners are more or less on an equal footing in terms of power, control, and decision making.  When things are unbalanced and unequal, one partner may become overly clingy and desperate.

These kinds of things are pretty well universal although some people make unusual situations work long-term, but that is the exception. Thinking you are an exception to all these issues being pointed out here is a big gamble to say the least.

I would also caution against letting your guard down with covid. Media hype and panic notwithstanding, it is at least 2 to 3 times more deadly than the flu which makes it a real problem.

[S2B]

What kind of personality does he display? Is he a guy that hits issues head on to deal with them or does he retreat and ignore the issue entirely?

[Allupinnit]

I would hope that his wife has a heads up at least that he plans to leave on the 5th so that she can get her affairs in order as well.  She's going to need to start looking for a job.  I honestly can't believe that he's managed a double life for this long - it's going to come as quite a shock to everyone when she learns where he's really been "working" (when your kids meet they're going to find out).  Have you imagined this horrible fallout?  Your infidelity is going to be an undeniable fact of your story that EVERYONE will know about you.

I have never left moving logistics with such short notice.  Has he gone to look at any places yet?  

[S2B]

^^^ he hasn’t told her yet = he has no plan to change anything.

[pepperbird]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:26 PM, Zona said:

 

Healthy romantic relationships are built on trust and respect, and they flow naturally without being forced, rushed or manipulated. Both partners are more or less on an equal footing in terms of power, control, and decision making. 

 

It's interesting that you mention control and power in the relationship. Really, the OP is the one here with all the power. She holds this guy's life in her hands-she can choose to stay with him, walk away or even upend the apple cart completely and tell his wife. She has so much power over him, yet he's got her turned around and thinking she needs to wait to see what he's going to do.
OP,you have every right to set whatever parameters you wish for your relationship with this man. Don't move the goalposts just to accommodate him.

[S2B]

Well it’s Tuesday - what’s his plan? What action has he taken to get that plan finalized?

[BaileyB]

Are you doing ok Kiki?

[Kiki55]

Hello, I had to take a few days break from here, I noticed it was having a negative impact on my wellbeing and I'm currently already really fragile. We are continuing as normal but found myself becoming a bit standoffish with him. I don't want to be that for him right now. I believe he is going through it at home and if I'm wrong then at least I trusted somebody until proven otherwise. I want to be his calm during this storm. I don't intend on asking him how it is going. He knows I'm here to support if he needs it, I've told him that. He knows the date we will discuss our future and we have agreed on it and until then, I'm going to keep things as they are. One week tomorrow I will know what he has put in place. My friend said to be there if he needs me but let him sort his own 'circus' out. We have been loved up still and i know this may be the wrong thing to do but with 8 days to go... I might ad well stand my ground here and when/if he has not kept his end of this, I will walk away with my head held high, he won't be able to use an excuse that I've been offish with him, or I'm still pressuring him or he thinks I'm gonna be hardwork - I don't know, he's never said these things but he could do if he has been taking me for a ride, he will not have an excuse he can use on me.