Author Kiki55 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 46 minutes ago, S2B said: IF he really wanted a place to move to now - he would be doing the action to secure a new place. he would be driving by instead of coming to visit you - OR he would be asking you to go on a drive with him to see what place is best! my son works 6 days a week right now - and yesterday he spent his day off driving by places he looked at online because his lease is up soon. that is what people do when they need to move. The problem is - this MM doesn’t NEED to move! he won’t show what he really NEEDS to do until you end seeing him and stop moving YOUR deadline for him being decent to you. He is perfectly comfortable Seeing you on the sly and going home to his wife/family - because he has nothing to lose at this point. people don’t change things because they are comfortable. They change because they are uncomfortable. You are working too hard to keep him comfortable. So is his wife. he would have moved by now IF he WANTED to move! stop making it easy for him to place you lower on his priority list!!! the 5TH IS your deadline! Stick to it! IF he hasn’t moved by then end it until he moves AND files for divorce! I need to hear him out. I know this much, from there I will decide whether to go NC from tomorrow or allow for 4 weeks to be completely moved out (but if no clear signs of effort from him within 1 week I'm gone) Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kiki55 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Crazelnut said: FOUR more weeks? Four more weeks of this agony. I agree -- give him 1 week to sign a lease. Maybe instead of playing house and pretending to be Step Dad at your place, he should be out looking for a place to live. He's just dragging his feet and you've already mentally signed up for another MONTH of it. Girl, you have got to find your spine and insist on your worth. I know, I do. I just gotta ahead him out tomorrow. Then make my decision. I certainly don't go beyond 4 weeks now but this all depends on what he says tomorrow, it could be a case of NC from tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kiki55 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Kiki55 said: I told my husband to leave the very next day. Anither of his reasons for not moving out sooner is that he didn't want to leave her there, heartbroken during lockdown where she can't see her friends and family, when I quizzed him on how long he think it would be, he said 2 weeks probably, this tied in with my 5th June date so that's how come up with it. I feel like I may have not been clear enough in terms of how I will proceed should be not have done anything for 5th, I've been quite wet about it and tomorrow this changes. We were friends for over a year within a group of us before anything remotely started to happen. During this time we never liked eachother like that and we got to know eachother within the group. When he told her he wanted to seperate, he came to mine as normal the next day and he was so panicked that she might go check if his car was at the office or that she would just turn up following him or something. 1 hour ago, LilKatKat said: There are many times I thought this myself. After all, he spent an hour and a half roundtrip 4 or 5 times a week (we didn't work together) to meet with me for dinners, movies, theatre, or just sitting on the sofa watching TV. It wasn't sex all the time and mostly it wasn't were we ended up. He too went home one day and just said he was leaving but had to sort things out because you don't just up and walk away one day. There are finances to figure out, living arrangements etc. She of course fought him on it. Thought it was a good marriage despite the low they were experiencing. The more she fought and the more I acquiesced, the more comfortable he got with the arrangement. My instinct was to question whether he would leave but the logic of everything he was doing to "show me" how much he loved me and wanted to be with me seemed to contradict my instinct. In the end, my instinct was correct. Yes, he ultimately left her - more like she chucked him out. Wonder if she hadn't if he'd still be there. Somehow I doubt that the 10X10 room he lives in will be enough for too much longer while his family lives in their home and his kids barely interact with him. I can't tell you how often I said this to him - he was being cruel giving her hope by staying if he actually intended to leave. He was also being cruel to me giving me hope if he wasn't. Truth is, he was only concerned with what was easiest for him. His response? He's trying to let her down gently and soften the blow. This went on for 6 months before I refused to let another goal post be moved and so being at an impasse we went NC for 5 months. Interestingly, when I spoke with her (about 7 hours total this past March), she had no idea her marriage was bad or not sustainable. He was just behaving the way he always did when things hit a bump: hold a grudge and retreat. Wasn't surprised as I saw a lot of that myself in the latter part of our initial relationship and the 6 weeks of the second phase. Whenever we had a disagreement, his thoughts went to Cat. After all, he wasn't disagreeing with her as he wasn't with her. Who wants to live like that. My experience is mine. He and I are not you and yours so it may work out differently for you but there are many parallels. It sounds very similar. Scarily similar. I don't know for sure what to expect at the moment so thinking if possible things to say or do is tricky. I'm going to do some bullet points tonight Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 You have to follow through with any threats as otherwise they are meaningless and next time you threaten he will just say "Yeah right". But ultimatums and deadlines are never really well received even in people who are all in, IME. You are in a bad position here, you care. This relationship matters to you. He is keeping you at arm's length. Keeping a loved one on tenterhooks. worried and upset is not a good sign in a person. It shows a lack of empathy. He is not keeping you guessing about some fabulous birthday present he is going to give you, as an enjoyable little game for both,. No, this is your life here, this is serious stuff. He controls the narrative, keeps you on an knife edge and that leaves you weak and desperate. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kiki55 said: Another of his reasons for not moving out sooner is that he didn't want to leave her there, heartbroken during lockdown where she can't see her friends and family, when I quizzed him on how long he think it would be, he said 2 weeks probably, this tied in with my 5th June date so that's how come up with it. I feel like I may have not been clear enough in terms of how I will proceed should be not have done anything for 5th, She is already heartbroken, by the sound of it. His staying just prolongs the pain, for everyone. Kiki, it’s nothing you’ve done/or didn’t do. You have been clear with the man. He knows what you expect. The only thing he doesn’t know is what you are going to do if/when he shows up tomorrow without the proof that he has moved out of his family home. As has been said, because you most definitely teach people how to treat you don’t make promises you can’t keep. Don’t make excuses for him, and know that if you offer a consequence and agree to an extension, you are teaching him that your word means nothing. You are already doing that... but giving him another four weeks. Agony! For everyone, for four more week - feeling the way you feel tonight. Give him one week, that’s what we are saying... if you are going to give him any more time at all. Your husband moved out in ONE DAY! If he comes tomorrow and is anything less than 100%, I am out, I have a signed lease, I have done it and I want to be with you! It will not be because you haven’t been clear. It will be because he does not want to leave his family home... and you should be very careful about that! Edited June 4, 2020 by BaileyB 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Keeping a loved one on tenterhooks. worried and upset is not a good sign in a person. It shows a lack of empathy. He is not keeping you guessing about some fabulous birthday present he is going to give you, as an enjoyable little game for both,. No, this is your life here, this is serious stuff. He controls the narrative, keeps you on an knife edge and that leaves you weak and desperate. This! Exactly! If anything, he is showing empathy for his wife - he doesn’t want her to be upset during the pandemic because she has no support from family and friends (ever heard of the phone, or FaceTime, or zoom). He doesn’t want to tell her that you are together, because that would upset her - particularly because you are younger, etc... His empathy is for his wife. If that is what it is... because what he’s doing to her by dragging this out if he’s leaving or not giving her the truth about the end of her marriage seems especially cruel. No rather, his concern is for himself. He doesn’t want to feel guilty, he doesn’t want to be a bad person... Edited June 4, 2020 by BaileyB 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Beca L Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, BaileyB said: No rather, his concern is for himself. He doesn’t want to feel guilty, he doesn’t want to be a bad person... Also he doesn't want to move into a flat or house that isn't as nice as his own place, with all his home comforts and his wife looking after him and his kids around him. He is like all MM, it's all about him, what is good for him and makes him happy. He's upsetting two women atm and he has no empathy for either of them. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kiki55 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 Thank you for all your comments and support this evening. I am well and truly confused as to what tomorrow will bring. I dont know how I'm going to react but it does all depend on what he shows/says. In my gut, he doesn't care enough to leave. If I can see that tomorrow then I will walk away tomorrow. If I see some fight in him and some proof, I may extend for 4 weeks. It all depends. I am going to try and get some sleep so I have a clear head tomorrow but I know thst first and foremost, if I am walking away tomorrow, it'll be for me. Will check back in before he arrives possibly to see if I have further advice, perhaps on what I should ask him or how to handle some of the things he may say. I will most definetly check in after he leaves - which will be lunch time tomorrow. Nerves are really getting to me already, hope I can sleep. 😔 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kiki55 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Beca L said: Also he doesn't want to move into a flat or house that isn't as nice as his own place, with all his home comforts and his wife looking after him and his kids around him. He is like all MM, it's all about him, what is good for him and makes him happy. He's upsetting two women atm and he has no empathy for either of them. This is definetly a thought of mine, all his home comforts the 'effort' he has to put in to leave. If he can't do it then he certainly isn't worth it. I will be saying to him tomorrow about how he is hurting 2 women with his approach. Edited June 4, 2020 by Kiki55 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (((((Hugs))))) 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I hope you get some sleep Kiki. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Hot chocolate and brandy... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRising8 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Yosemite said: If he really told his wife that he wanted to separate, the first thing she would do is go through his phone and computer. 1 hour ago, Yosemite said: If she couldn't get into the phone, her suspicion would be up and she would follow him one day or put a tracker in his car to see if he's really going to an office in the middle of a quarantine. The fact that she's supposedly known that he wants to separate for 2 1/2 months and hasn't thrown him out or investigated until she found out about you indicates that she's completely in the dark. Not necessarily. My xMM told his BS he wanted a separation and she just wanted to talk, go to counselling,save the marriage. Everyone reacts differently. She had her suspicions but didn't investigate, maybe didn't really want to know. And yes, I know for a fact he told her. I heard them talk about it and she confirmed it for me in March. So t is possible he told her. But saying and doing are two completely different things. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kiki55 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 Thanks to all of you 😊 I guess we have all been here pretty much so we all know how this feels. He has just sent me a message saying "I love you, goodnight" Let's see how much he actually means that by proof and not words. Sleep well all x Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kiki55 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, LilKatKat said: Not necessarily. My xMM told his BS he wanted a separation and she just wanted to talk, go to counselling,save the marriage. Everyone reacts differently. She had her suspicions but didn't investigate, maybe didn't really want to know. And yes, I know for a fact he told her. I heard them talk about it and she confirmed it for me in March. So t is possible he told her. But saying and doing are two completely different things. He said she never goes through his phone. I've never done thatwith any of my previous relationships either and I don't even intend on doing it with him if things progress past this point. I know she has found a blonde hair in his beard before but he said she didn't really react. Perhaps made a joke about it. My hair gets all over his car too and I've noticed some on him as he leaves sometimes. This is not my problem tbf. I'm not gonna start helping him hide it from her as personally I'd rather she knew the truth. Link to post Share on other sites
Beca L Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, Kiki55 said: This is definetly a thought of mine, all his home comforts the 'effort' he has to put in to leave. If he can't do it then he certainly isn't worth it. I will be saying to him tomorrow about how he is hurting 2 women with his approach. I really feel for you and I hate having to say these things but I want you to understand how these MM twist things in their favour. I didn't have any of this info and I spent far too long (2 years) doing the 'pick me dance' after he went back to his wife. I hope you can get some sleep and try not to worry. I had written you a really long private message but I realised you can't receive them yet as you haven't been a member for longer than 30 days yet...duh ! Remember words are easy but action and commitment is what really counts. If he can't offer you anything but words and empty promises tomorrow then I would walk. Tell him to get in touch once he's moved out and settled in his new flat /house etc. Sending hugs xo xo xo 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Amethyst68 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 47 minutes ago, BaileyB said: If anything, he is showing empathy for his wife I don't believe this can be said about any MM, any MP actually. The only person they they show empathy to is themselves. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Beca L Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Amethyst68 said: I don't believe this can be said about any MM, any MP actually. The only person they they show empathy to is themselves. I can concur that this is 100% correct !!! 👏👏 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lylalou Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 He will fight for you because he doesn’t want to lose what he has with you, he’s happy he’s got you on the side and a comfortable home to go back to. If you make it too easy he hasn’t got to do anything because he’ll just pay lip service and you’ll extend the time frame. But as I found out many times the fight is only to prolong everything, He’s happy how things are, he’s got the best of both worlds. I hope you aren’t too disappointed tmw and extend your confusion and unhappiness at the lack of action. Link to post Share on other sites
Zona Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 4 hours ago, S2B said: When you meet with him - write down everything he is saying as he says it. Sounds more like an interrogation. Honestly if you have to go to that extreme, then the relationship in beyond unhealthy. Link to post Share on other sites
Yosemite Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, LilKatKat said: Not necessarily. My xMM told his BS he wanted a separation and she just wanted to talk, go to counselling,save the marriage. Everyone reacts differently. She had her suspicions but didn't investigate, maybe didn't really want to know. And yes, I know for a fact he told her. I heard them talk about it and she confirmed it for me in March. So t is possible he told her. But saying and doing are two completely different things. I suppose that's possible, but I mean which is it? The OP says that he was worried about parking his car outside her house because he thought that she might have followed him. So, she's willing to follow him, but not check his computer or phone? But, he's texting the OP all night and his wife never gets suspicious? Of course, if this guy has been cheating on her for years and years, she may just look the other way and pretend not to notice...but how does that fit with her supposedly following him and his story of being reluctant to move out to save her feelings. None of this makes any sense, probably because none of it is true. This guy is a proven liar; the OP is being very naive believing even a single word that comes out of his mouth. If he said it's currently June of 2020, she should be doubtful lol. 8 hours ago, Kiki55 said: When he told her he wanted to seperate, he came to mine as normal the next day and he was so panicked that she might go check if his car was at the office or that she would just turn up following him or something. He was grooming you for the affair. Don't believe anything he says. Every single day he's lying to his wife and kids, he's obviously going to lie to you too. I don't believe that he's told her that he wants to separate. Quote Will check back in before he arrives possibly to see if I have further advice, perhaps on what I should ask him or how to handle some of the things he may say. I say let him bring it up and if he doesn't, wait until he's just about to leave before you bring it up. Then listen without interrupting to what he says; try to keep a poker face. If he comes empty handed and starts in with how busy it's been at work and how he needs to prepare for a job opportunity that he doesn't even have an interview for, just listen and then tell him that you were very clear that you needed proof and since he hasn't brought any, you'll be going no contact. If you want to give him more time (bad idea) tell him that he can't work at your house anymore and you won't have sex with him until he has a signed lease and a move in date to show you. Good luck Edited June 5, 2020 by Yosemite 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kiki55 Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 Morning, so not much sleep was had. Usually, I stay in my nightwear unless when he arrives and get dressed later on. Today I am dressed. I do not want to have this conversation like that. @Yosemite I can't go 5 hours without bringing it up. This needs to be had pretty much strsight away in my opinion. Then he can leave - this is what I'm expecting today. I have a feeling that today he is going to tell me it's over. I feel he may of had his fun, the novelty is wearing off and he's happy to slip back into his normal life. He is usually here at 6:30 ish on a Friday but no sign yet. He stayed awake later than usual last night and took his laptops home, usually he leaves them here but has took them home lately now and again- I assumed to aid with finding a property and his job prep. Perhaps he just won't come at all? Perhaps he mentally said his goodbyes to me already and now will ghost me? Who knows... all I know is, I don't... I don't know anything and that's because he doesn't really tell me anything. Today things are going to end, I can feel it in my gut. I am going to see the real him one way or another. My stomach is turning, I keep getting emotional, I'm going to try my very best to keep my tears in. Link to post Share on other sites
Yosemite Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kiki55 said: Morning, so not much sleep was had. Usually, I stay in my nightwear unless when he arrives and get dressed later on. Today I am dressed. I do not want to have this conversation like that. @Yosemite I can't go 5 hours without bringing it up. This needs to be had pretty much strsight away in my opinion. Then he can leave - this is what I'm expecting today. I have a feeling that today he is going to tell me it's over. I feel he may of had his fun, the novelty is wearing off and he's happy to slip back into his normal life. He is usually here at 6:30 ish on a Friday but no sign yet. He stayed awake later than usual last night and took his laptops home, usually he leaves them here but has took them home lately now and again- I assumed to aid with finding a property and his job prep. Perhaps he just won't come at all? Perhaps he mentally said his goodbyes to me already and now will ghost me? Who knows... all I know is, I don't... I don't know anything and that's because he doesn't really tell me anything. Today things are going to end, I can feel it in my gut. I am going to see the real him one way or another. My stomach is turning, I keep getting emotional, I'm going to try my very best to keep my tears in. Wow just try to stay strong. You got this! Love should lift you up...this affair is doing nothing but tearing you down. I hope that you find the strength to leave him in the dust even if he does show up today. (What a coward he is if he doesnt even go to your place.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kiki55 Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 I know, I feel it in my gut this is wrong and that's because of his he has been recently. It was lifting me up for some time but these past few weeks I've never felt so low. There is still no sign of him. Very strange for a Friday. I can feel myself wanting to cry. How do I stop it? I can't have him see me crying... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Yosemite Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Kiki55 said: I know, I feel it in my gut this is wrong and that's because of his he has been recently. It was lifting me up for some time but these past few weeks I've never felt so low. There is still no sign of him. Very strange for a Friday. I can feel myself wanting to cry. How do I stop it? I can't have him see me crying... Hugssssss!!! You can do this!❤❤❤❤ He's just one man, a lying man. A cheater and a manipulator. The truth may hurt now, but you'll be stronger once you get through the pain. PLEASE kick him to the curb, heal, and make yourself available to a man worthy of your love and care. This guy isn't it. Stay strong, you can do it!! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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