Separated from wife but lockdown prevents him moving out

[Beca L]

1 hour ago, Kiki55 said:

I am not expecting him to be moved out by that date

I'm sorry if you feel disheartened at the comments on here but I'm not sure why you came on in the first place, what did you want to get from this experience?

 Affirmation that you are doing the right thing and that we are all behind you and your choices?

Also I am not sure why you gave a deadline if you are not expecting him to move out? If he produces a lease but has no immediate plans to move are you going to go along with that or walk away. What are your stipulations? You talk about him as though he has no money issues so he could quite easily rent a place and not move in straight away but keep stringing you along and delaying things. 

Within 2/3 weeks of my relationship with MM becoming physical I said I didn't want to carry on unless he left BS. I left it with him and 2 days later he had moved out and moved in to a friends garden studio. Then 4 months later he took a year lease on a house to rent. If your MM believes in a future with you there is nothing stopping him from looking at a place tomorrow and signing a lease. He could be all moved in by next week !!!

Edited May 22, 2020 by Beca L

[BaileyB]

49 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I tell people on this board all the time, you will never regret waiting to introduce your children to your new partner. You will most certainly regret it if you move too fast and you don’t do it “well.”

Same could actually be said for relationships, really. You will never regret really getting to know someone and doing your due diligence. You will most certainly regret your decision if you rush things and do not head the warnings...

As the saying goes - act in haste, repent at leisure.

Edited May 22, 2020 by BaileyB

[notmyfinestmoment]

@kiki55  I know why you came here and I hope you still do despite the beating you are starting to take....so unnecessary!    I can look at plenty of posts and maybe say to myself "i'm not sure I would have done that", but guess what?  I'm not them and they aren't me.  Everyone handles things differently!  And it is great that some people think they handle adversity so perfectly in life, but I'm sure anyone could look at their life and find their flaws too (seriously don't even know why some of them are on this board, same people who have never experienced this but are very quick to criticize and judge instead of offering kind advice or maybe offer an ear to listen).  The view from the cheap seats is pretty amazing, isn't it?

 So please, take a breath, brush off some of these comments because they are not walking the same path that you are.    

[heartwhole2]

I can understand interpreting some people's tone as seeming to root against you or ridiculing you. I do come here as a BW, not ever having been an OW, but I hope that I am writing with compassion and an open mind. The questions people are asking and the seeming contradictions or unwise steps thus far that people are pointing out are important to think about, but snark doesn't help you and I'm sorry if you've gotten some. 

I'm not sure what it's like where you are, but here leases generally start on the first of the month, so this deadline falling just after the first of the month is unfortunate. If he signs a lease for July 1 then you are really waiting until then to see if he's really going through with it. 

[Amethyst68]

Quote

In terms if the kids, there will be no formal visitation, just as there isn't with my kids. Both my kids talk with their Dad to arrange when they want to see him and will just say "hey mum, going to Dads, see you later" he/they will let me know when they get there and then let me know when they are coming home. I guess it will be a similar situation with my MM. 

The wife's a stay at home mother with no income of her own. You can bet your life there'll be a formal separation and custody agreement. The BW will need it in place for the court to determine alimony and child support.

If she's got any sense she'll demand 50/50 custody so he has to do his fair share with his children.

Out of curiosity is he planning on moving away from his children?

[BTDT2012]

How does on go away for the weekend during a lockdown?

[Kiki55]

6 hours ago, notmyfinestmoment said:

@kiki55  I know why you came here and I hope you still do despite the beating you are starting to take....so unnecessary!    I can look at plenty of posts and maybe say to myself "i'm not sure I would have done that", but guess what?  I'm not them and they aren't me.  Everyone handles things differently!  And it is great that some people think they handle adversity so perfectly in life, but I'm sure anyone could look at their life and find their flaws too (seriously don't even know why some of them are on this board, same people who have never experienced this but are very quick to criticize and judge instead of offering kind advice or maybe offer an ear to listen).  The view from the cheap seats is pretty amazing, isn't it?

 So please, take a breath, brush off some of these comments because they are not walking the same path that you are.    

Thank you. Right now I haven't even got the fight to respond to them all. I know they mean well but the judgement and criticisism is overwhelming. I came here for some support and advice, on the situation I am already in, not to be beat down by the actions I have already made. I don't think I can take anymore of it and debating whether to leave the page however I know there will be OW out there feeling lost like me and my story (and how it ends) could offer some insight to them. 

I'm going to stand up straight and continue down this path with my MM because as of yet, for me personally, there are no red flags - yes against his W I know there is but in terms of our relationship, I have not seen anything that suggests he is being deceitful to me. 

We spoke until midnight last night, I woke at 6:30am to a good morning message and this will lead to another day of constant contact. He is showing clear signs of love for me and I am going to run with that. If he lets me down then that'll be my fault and I'll deal with the aftermath. 

[Beca L]

4 hours ago, Kiki55 said:

Thank you. Right now I haven't even got the fight to respond to them all. I know they mean well but the judgement and criticisism is overwhelming. I came here for some support and advice, on the situation I am already in, not to be beat down by the actions I have already made. I don't think I can take anymore of it and debating whether to leave the page however I know there will be OW out there feeling lost like me and my story (and how it ends) could offer some insight to them. 

I'm going to stand up straight and continue down this path with my MM because as of yet, for me personally, there are no red flags - yes against his W I know there is but in terms of our relationship, I have not seen anything that suggests he is being deceitful to me. 

We spoke until midnight last night, I woke at 6:30am to a good morning message and this will lead to another day of constant contact. He is showing clear signs of love for me and I am going to run with that. If he lets me down then that'll be my fault and I'll deal with the aftermath. 

Hi Kiki55,

Firstly I would like to apologise if I have been critical of your decisions and judgemental as well as not been as empathetic as I could. In my defensive I've been having a few really bad days and when I read stories like yours it just brings back memories and heartache for me. I am over 5 months NC with my XMM. He left his wife straightaway, we spent over a year together, then he went back and for 2 years he did the push and pull with me telling me that he had made a mistake in going back and was deeply in love with me but he didn't know how we could be together again and that he couldn't leave his BS again as his kids would never speak to him again. I finally had enough and the last time we spoke was a few days before xmas. I knew I couldn't start another year going through all this pain so that is where I am today. So I know exactly what you are going through and we were also colleagues like you and MM.

There are a few similarities between our stories and I guess the place I am coming from is that if I knew what you know now about how these things play out then I may have acted completely differently in the beginning and my relationship with xMM may have had a completely different outcome than it did. My xMM was so loving and attentive in the beginning, we were like teenagers. He would also text me day and night, constantly showing signs of love and support etc. You say there are no red flags but how can the fact that he can lie to his wife every day about where he has been all day not be a red flag to you? My xmm never did that, he left as soon as he had to. We had barely seen each other outside of school before he left his wife because he didn't want to lie to her, we had only met up when she had gone away for a weekend. When he left BS he told her about me straight away (looking back maybe he shouldn't have done that but he wanted to be honest with her). If you have separated with your H and he has moved out during this pandemic then why can't he do the same? What is he waiting for ? I'm assuming you are in the UK. I live in Wales and we are on more stricter lock down than England atm but I do know that you can still move house. 

You said at the beginning of your thread that you were heartbroken every time he goes home to her and you did ask our advice. You have given him an ultimatum but then you said that you didn't expect him to move out by the 5th. What are you hoping he will do? 

I would like to think that this will all work out for you and you will get the happy ending but the odds are stacked against you I'm afraid. If he feels as strongly for you as you do for him then why has he not already left.....that is a massive red flag to me. Whatever excuses he has given you, you have to take as purely excuses because you were in exactly the same situation as him. with kids the same age and you have made steps to separate from your spouse. Your H as moved out already so it can be done. 

My advice is to proceed with extreme caution and don't believe everything he says. As soon as he starts to stall I would walk away. Personally having been through what I have been through I would walk away now (like Bailey suggested) and let him end his marriage first and get himself in a good place before you start dating. Otherwise there is always the risk that he will go back. Remember once his wife finds out about you she will probably change and start fighting for him and begging him not to leave, please be prepared for that.

Take care and try not to take what some people have written on here to heart. A lot of them have never been OW and have no idea what you are going through however they are on the outside looking in and they have the advantage of seeing things from a different perspective and some of the advice they give is spot on.

Hugs xo xo

[Crazelnut]

You're totally delusional when it comes to your children, and even more so when it comes to his. His kids are going to talk to your kids, and they're all going to figure out that you broke up two families. They WILL figure this out.  And right now you're foisting a complicated adult relationship on 2 children. The fact that you can say, "I told them all about <screwed up dysfunctional adult thing> and they're ok with it" tells me that you have your head so high in the clouds, you're not thinking clearly. They have NO frame of reference, nor do they have any choice. Expect some expensive therapy sessions for them when they realize Mommy lied to them, broke up their home and his, and made them unwitting accomplices in the whole sordid mess.

The only thing you've done right is to give him an ultimatum. Notice, though, that YOU had to issue one. If you hadn't, he'd still be dragging his feet with no intention of moving out. Do you see the parallels with his marriage? Getting married was all HER idea; he went along with it. Moving out of his family home is YOUR idea; he went along with it.

I know you're think we're being harsh and critical. We're trying to verbally shake some sense into you. You're so caught up in this neo-teenage romance that you can't see straight. The collective wisdom and experience on this board is useful. It says that most likely he will eventually end up back at home, and you will end up heartbroken and in pain. Because this is what happens with conflict-avoidant, lying, cheating men. No matter how much they love you, that's who they are and how they behave.

The minute you see waffling or dragging, cut bait and run.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Crazelnut

[BaileyB]

I’m sorry if you feel our responses have been harsh and judgmental. Can you appreciate that it does you no service if we hold your hand and tell you how very much we wish this works out for you, when we know that you are at risk here. 

It’s one thing, if you make a decision that puts your own heart at risk of breaking. It’s quite another when you involve children. And, that’s probably the advice that feels the worst, the most critical. But, it is also quite honestly what you most need to hear. I would encourage you to see what happens with this ultimatum. But otherwise, slow things down. Try to keep work and kids separate from your relationship. And see how this plays out. You will have your answer with time. 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[heartwhole2]

On 5/19/2020 at 5:37 PM, Kiki55 said:

will he really leave the family home and sacrifice this for me?

This was the question posed in your very first post. It's quite natural, as people pick apart your situation, to double down on why your choices make sense. We all do it from time to time. The key is to grow more aware of ourselves so that we can see when we're doing it and look at the situation from the outside in. 

Do you think that maybe you have gone so far with solidifying your relationship by being out in front of your children and coworkers in the hopes of selling him on solidifying it on his end by moving out? You came here because you worried and doubted that he would follow through. You wanted outsiders' opinions on whether it seemed likely or not. 

I think you genuinely love each other. I think you're likely compatible and could have a good relationship if you were both in a healthy place. The clues to that happening are in how you two have historically handled yourselves and how you are handling yourselves now. You both need to be healthy and resolved to make this work. If, for example, he never learns how to handle conflict, then you will replay this drama in your future together. 

Wanting what we can't have is a powerful motivator (as Beca has said, I agree that BW may very well decide she wants MM again if she finds out about you). It doesn't mean that we will nurture that thing properly when we get it. It's really hard to think clearly from within your situation because the desiring is so strong that you are sure your love will overcome all problems. But it's not love that overcomes -- it's you and your partner, based on your self-awareness and resilience and communication skills. 

[Amethyst68]

Look I'm not actually advocating for MM to stay with his wife. In many ways I think it's better if he leaves and his BW has the opportunity to find a partner with integrity, who will treat her with the dignity she deserves.

What I do advocate is honesty, the BW needs to know so she can go for STI testing (no insult intended), who knows who else her husband has had sex or sexual contact with. You may believe you're the only one but the fact is he's a proven liar.

The other main thing is he's practising one kind of infidelity it's not too far fetched to believe he's also planning fiscal infidelity. A wife may agree to take less than she's entitled to if she's been gaslighted into believing the split is her fault or he may be hiding money. It's not unknown, once the truth is out there his wife will know what to look out for. As I said before you may live in an at fault state/country where infidelity directly affects the divorce. 

So you see it's the deceit that I'm arguing against, something that seems to come so easily to him......

Oh and please don't come back with the old 'he's trying to save her pain' excuse. That doesn't fly and you know it as both a wife and a woman. I know you say you've said this to him, how about making it a condition of your new relationship. After you'd want him to be truthful with you in the future so this is just laying the foundations.

[pepperbird]

19 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

The wife's a stay at home mother with no income of her own. You can bet your life there'll be a formal separation and custody agreement. The BW will need it in place for the court to determine alimony and child support.

If she's got any sense she'll demand 50/50 custody so he has to do his fair share with his children.

Out of curiosity is he planning on moving away from his children?

it won't be up to the people involved here. If it goes to family court, they will be the ones to decide. Hopefully, they'll come up with something that's in the best interests of the kids.

[Amethyst68]

31 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

it won't be up to the people involved here. If it goes to family court, they will be the ones to decide. Hopefully, they'll come up with something that's in the best interests of the kids.

Depends where you live, if he gets her to agree to a separation agreement then often the courts won't even be involved passed a rubber stamp. That agreement often transitions into the divorce settlement.

It varies, where I live  it takes 2 years to divorce with children of the ages involved and that's if both parties agree, goes up to 5 if there's a disagreement. Plenty of time for the truth to come out but I've seen or rather read about divorces go through in months in other jurisdictions.

[Kiki55]

9 hours ago, Beca L said:

Hi Kiki55,

Firstly I would like to apologise if I have been critical of your decisions and judgemental as well as not been as empathetic as I could. In my defensive I've been having a few really bad days and when I read stories like yours it just brings back memories and heartache for me. I am over 5 months NC with my XMM. He left his wife straightaway, we spent over a year together, then he went back and for 2 years he did the push and pull with me telling me that he had made a mistake in going back and was deeply in love with me but he didn't know how we could be together again and that he couldn't leave his BS again as his kids would never speak to him again. I finally had enough and the last time we spoke was a few days before xmas. I knew I couldn't start another year going through all this pain so that is where I am today. So I know exactly what you are going through and we were also colleagues like you and MM.

There are a few similarities between our stories and I guess the place I am coming from is that if I knew what you know now about how these things play out then I may have acted completely differently in the beginning and my relationship with xMM may have had a completely different outcome than it did. My xMM was so loving and attentive in the beginning, we were like teenagers. He would also text me day and night, constantly showing signs of love and support etc. You say there are no red flags but how can the fact that he can lie to his wife every day about where he has been all day not be a red flag to you? My xmm never did that, he left as soon as he had to. We had barely seen each other outside of school before he left his wife because he didn't want to lie to her, we had only met up when she had gone away for a weekend. When he left BS he told her about me straight away (looking back maybe he shouldn't have done that but he wanted to be honest with her). If you have separated with your H and he has moved out during this pandemic then why can't he do the same? What is he waiting for ? I'm assuming you are in the UK. I live in Wales and we are on more stricter lock down than England atm but I do know that you can still move house. 

You said at the beginning of your thread that you were heartbroken every time he goes home to her and you did ask our advice. You have given him an ultimatum but then you said that you didn't expect him to move out by the 5th. What are you hoping he will do? 

I would like to think that this will all work out for you and you will get the happy ending but the odds are stacked against you I'm afraid. If he feels as strongly for you as you do for him then why has he not already left.....that is a massive red flag to me. Whatever excuses he has given you, you have to take as purely excuses because you were in exactly the same situation as him. with kids the same age and you have made steps to separate from your spouse. Your H as moved out already so it can be done. 

My advice is to proceed with extreme caution and don't believe everything he says. As soon as he starts to stall I would walk away. Personally having been through what I have been through I would walk away now (like Bailey suggested) and let him end his marriage first and get himself in a good place before you start dating. Otherwise there is always the risk that he will go back. Remember once his wife finds out about you she will probably change and start fighting for him and begging him not to leave, please be prepared for that.

Take care and try not to take what some people have written on here to heart. A lot of them have never been OW and have no idea what you are going through however they are on the outside looking in and they have the advantage of seeing things from a different perspective and some of the advice they give is spot on.

Hugs xo xo

Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. I am very aware the odds are stacked against me and I can see the similarities in your experience to mine. I am going to speak with him before the 5th June, I will see him again Tuesday and I think we need to clarify exactly what is achievable by this date and I want to know what he is expecting to of achieved be8cuase if this date comes and I am not satisfied but yet not clarified exactly what I expect... this is going to cause some problems and also a reason to have to extend - making it look like I may be willing to keep doing this. 

I know I've messed up, but I can't bear to be without him, without first knowing that he definetly does not want to be with me. 

[heartwhole2]

9 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

I can't bear to be without him, without first knowing that he definetly does not want to be with me. 

This is precisely how people wind up stuck in affair limbo for years. Please go into this with your eyes wide open. He will likely always want to be with you in theory or be with you at some time in the future, with the goal posts moving over and over again. This is what happens the majority of the time. Yes, he wants you in his life. But he doesn't want discord in the rest of his life. Faced with a choice he may simply not choose for as long as he can.

[Kiki55]

I've read all the comments today and I'm actually so so broken. I was OK with him today, happy and chatty but after jist reading all your comments my mood has lowered and I can feel myself being standoffish with him I have just sent him a message saying I am intrigued as to what he thinks he is going to be able to achieve by 5th June.. I will post his response when I have it but he does tend to rather discuss this type of thing in person. However I will not see him until Tuesday. I am in a constant battle if highs and lows, more lows lately obviously. I just don't know what I'd be satisfied with by this date. Obviously completely moved out but I don't see it. 

 

Ok so he has just replied and said "we agreed we wouldn't talk about it until this date" I know what I have asked of him which is - "to be moving out by this date" what would you consider moving out? A lease signed? Actually moved out? He seems confident he will meet my expectations so either he will do it all OR... he has played me for an absolute mug and knows that is the date we are over. I don't even know what to reply to his message either 

[Beca L]

21 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

I think we need to clarify exactly what is achievable by this date and I want to know what he is expecting to of achieved be8cuase if this date comes and I am not satisfied but yet not clarified exactly what I expect... this is going to cause some problems

I agree. You mention that he is worried about his kids and BS etc but you managed to go ahead and separate with your H so can you not see that you were prepared to leave you marriage for him surely he can do the same. As you have repeated on numerous posts mm and his wife are not living like a married couple, grown apart, sleeping in separate rooms, they don't spend any time together etc. So him leaving the house to live somewhere else is not such a big deal ? or is it to him ?

What concerns me is when you said that she is dependent financially on him, that is going to make him have a big sense of loyalty to her and it will be really hard for him to leave. I guess the difference with you is your H was asked to leave so he did. MM like the comfort of home, their wives, children, material possessions. He has the best of both worlds atm, why would he need to change that ? Move out into an empty apartment, only seeing you when it's convenient and fits around your family life.

My advice would be to take your foot of the gas, slow things down, don't have him coming to work in your home any more . Push him away, if he cares that much for you and sees a future with you he will make the necessary steps then to be with you. Otherwise my worry for you is that he will stall as long as he can and you will keep moving the goal posts to fit in with him. 

[Beca L]

9 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

Ok so he has just replied and said "we agreed we wouldn't talk about it until this date" I know what I have asked of him which is - "to be moving out by this date" what would you consider moving out? A lease signed? Actually moved out? He seems confident he will meet my expectations so either he will do it all OR... he has played me for an absolute mug and knows that is the date we are over. I don't even know what to reply to his message either 

Not talking about it until that date is completely stalling !!! WE all assumed as you did that he would be moved out by 5th June !!! not just discussing it. 

I'm so sorry but he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to leave. When my MM left I knew he was going to do it, he so desperately wanted to and couldn't live there with her any longer. There was no stalling, no putting off, delaying etc. He just did it and that was that. 

I would reply calmly that you don't want to be his bit on the side or anything else and that until his situation changes it would be best that you don't see each other as he needs to sort his marriage and separation out. It isn't fair on you, his BS or the children.

[Kiki55]

3 minutes ago, Beca L said:

I agree. You mention that he is worried about his kids and BS etc but you managed to go ahead and separate with your H so can you not see that you were prepared to leave you marriage for him surely he can do the same. As you have repeated on numerous posts mm and his wife are not living like a married couple, grown apart, sleeping in separate rooms, they don't spend any time together etc. So him leaving the house to live somewhere else is not such a big deal ? or is it to him ?

What concerns me is when you said that she is dependent financially on him, that is going to make him have a big sense of loyalty to her and it will be really hard for him to leave. I guess the difference with you is your H was asked to leave so he did. MM like the comfort of home, their wives, children, material possessions. He has the best of both worlds atm, why would he need to change that ? Move out into an empty apartment, only seeing you when it's convenient and fits around your family life.

My advice would be to take your foot of the gas, slow things down, don't have him coming to work in your home any more . Push him away, if he cares that much for you and sees a future with you he will make the necessary steps then to be with you. Otherwise my worry for you is that he will stall as long as he can and you will keep moving the goal posts to fit in with him. 

My husband left before lockdown. I also split with him 2 weeks after I first kissed my MM. I didn't intend on anything serious with the MM but I knew I was not in love with my H anymore and it was only fair to call time for both our sakes. 

I think putting the brakes on is a good idea but I'm scared he will think I am having second thoughts, he still has concerns that I may want my husband back - (I guess this is the price we pay for our infidelity) he really does not seem phased about this date. Either he will just up and leave or he will actually do it. If the date was months in advance, I would put the brakes on as it's killing me but as it is less than 2 weeks away now, I don't want to rock the boat by withdrawing. If he isn't being truthful, he could use this as an excuse to delay and I will still not know his true intentions. 

[Beca L]

2 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

I'm scared he will think I am having second thoughts,

I'm afraid you may have to take that risk.

I think if he respects you then he will agree that you deserve better than being a dirty secret and that he should not be disrespecting you and his wife. YOU would not have stayed living with your H and secretly meeting MM because you wouldn't do that to your H. However he is happy to keep playing two women. 

5 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

I don't want to rock the boat by withdrawing

You may have to otherwise you really won't know his true intentions and tbh if he doesn't do anything and walks away he wasn't worth it in the first place. Tell him you do not want to put pressure on him but you have thought things over and whilst he stays living with her you don't feel that it's right that you keep seeing each other and especially not at your home. 

[Beca L]

Also btw my XMM left 4 days before Xmas.

He didn't use the excuse that he had to do it after Xmas. He decided he was doing it and he just did it. 

[BaileyB]

17 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

I think putting the brakes on is a good idea but I'm scared he will think I am having second thoughts

If he truly loves you, he will do as you ask... whether you ask to slow things down, take more time, or for a plan of how/when he is going to leave. You have the right to ask, if you truly intend to be in a relationship together. He has to do the work, to deal with his stuff, but he needs to be honest and transparent with you and not put you off.

I hate to say it, but if it’s truly meant to be, it will be... he won’t be dismayed by you asking to slow things down or asking for his plan. If that scares him off, it will show you that he is not truly committed to being with you - not prepared to be honest or transparent and not ready to move mountains. Although, as Becca says, if he is truly living separately from the woman in their own home, it’s not going to come as a surprise to her when he actually moved out - it shouldn’t actually be so hard, there are no real mountains to move...

Hugs.

Edited May 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[S2B]

Anyone can move TODAY if they REALLY want to move!

any delay means he’s full of crap!

stop waiting! When someone wants to be with another person NOTHING gets in the way! He’s got excuses - stop believing his words/lies.

his actions show what’s real! He is STILL there with his wife!

no rental agreement would mean squat...actually MOVING and getting the divorce finalized shows he will do it! Anything less and he’s just another liar.

start living life! Stop waiting for him to do anything! 

[BaileyB]

14 minutes ago, Beca L said:

Tell him you do not want to put pressure on him but you have thought things over and whilst he stays living with her you don't feel that it's right that you keep seeing each other and especially not at your home. 

This. If he respects you, he will respect your wishes. What you are suggesting is after all, very responsible and very appropriate. 

It may feel like a step backward, but it sets you up in a good way such that it gives you the opportunity to start off in a health(ier) way... with some healthy boundaries, each person making their own decisions, coming together because you want to - in a healthy way. 

If it’s meant to be, it will be. He will do what he needs to do to make it happen. And you, will sleep easier at night knowing that you did it a better way...

Edited May 23, 2020 by BaileyB