Separated from wife but lockdown prevents him moving out

[Amethyst68]

10 minutes ago, S2B said:

Anyone can move TODAY if they REALLY want to move!

To be fair under normal circumstances I would agree but the OP sounds as if she's in the UK (going by the way she writes and slang used), I could of course be wrong but if she is we are just coming out of complete lockdown.

Technically you aren't even supposed to be in another household except your own never mind do something like house hunting. The MM is actually breaking lockdown rules by going to OP's house everyday and could be prosecuted. I'll bet the BW thinks he's going into his office.

The fact he's been threatening his family's lives every day he goes to the OP's house and interacts with her and and children who are still going to school is just another facet of betrayal.

[Kiki55]

Basically, since we agreed on this date, every day since I have brought it up with him, telling him I'm worried he's gonna change his mind, not being truthful, sometimes in a jokey way and sometimes very sincere (after all even when I say it playfully, inside it's killing me) everytime I bring it up he tells me to stop worrying, I will see he is serious about me as I am him, to trust him etc and I accept and then the next day I am bringing it up again (It's obviously all I think about at the moment!) He is quite upset that I don't trust him (strange considering if he can lie to her, I'm sure he can quite possibly lie to me too!) I think I am going to stop telling him how much i worry and I'm going to limit my contact with him, not enough for him to question me but in my own head, make plans for the worst outcome... My heart is literally in his hands and I need to try and remove it, at least to the finger tips so to speak! Every day I feel myself fall deeper and deeper in love with him, I'll at least try and refrain from falling deeper for now. 

Wow, what a mess I have got myself into 😔

Edited May 23, 2020 by Kiki55

[Kiki55]

19 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

 

Oh dear, he just kicked that can down the road.
Prepare for a big excuse coming up.. I am sorry to say.
This doesn't sound like a man who treats you like an equal,  he sounds a tad condescending, as if you have no right to know what is happening...
 

I'm falling to sleep tonight a little confused. 

We did agree not to talk about it, he isn't the best at discussing feelings, he prefers to show it (ironic I know) but he is adamant I will see he is serious about me come this date. He talks like this quite a lot but it's not condescending, I also do it with him too. It's just the way we are with eachother and it's not applied in a serious manner, we currently have a lighthearted bet in process and he followed this message up with "I think this should be our second bet 😉"  

I am going to prepare for the worst anyway, it will be my own fault for getting involved with a married man and I'll just have to try and pick myself up again. 

It's gonna hurt like hell, but I am already hurting now so what difference will a little more do. 😔

[BaileyB]

39 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

He is quite upset that I don't trust him

Most people don’t trust blindly. Trust is earned. Rather than shifting the blame to you, he could earn your trust by communicating with you, being honest and transparent, and following through on his intentions. When he does that, he will begin to earn your trust...

Edited May 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[Beca L]

11 minutes ago, Kiki55 said:

I am going to prepare for the worst anyway, it will be my own fault for getting involved with a married man and I'll just have to try and pick myself up again. 

It's gonna hurt like hell, but I am already hurting now so what difference will a little more do. 😔

I’m so sorry and I feel your pain. But you are only at the beginning, even if he does leave on the 5th June as he says he will, be prepared for months or years of feeling an unease. Wondering if he is where he said he is, will he go back. Why is he not divorcing etc etc. 
I guess that is why Bailey and I suggested walking away until he is a free agent, divorced and ready to date. Otherwise you will always have this nagging feeling of unease and insecurity. 

[Kiki55]

11 minutes ago, Beca L said:

I’m so sorry and I feel your pain. But you are only at the beginning, even if he does leave on the 5th June as he says he will, be prepared for months or years of feeling an unease. Wondering if he is where he said he is, will he go back. Why is he not divorcing etc etc. 
I guess that is why Bailey and I suggested walking away until he is a free agent, divorced and ready to date. Otherwise you will always have this nagging feeling of unease and insecurity. 

I really don't think I will feel like that if he leaves but I understand why you may think that. We have both been caught up in this and it's a whirlwind of emotion and connection. If he leaves I know that he has then been true to me from the start... but if he doesn't then it's all been a lie and and I will move on and be glad that I escaped an absolute psychopath. I don't trust people easily, I'm always very dubious and it takes a lot for me to let my guard down, I am very good at sussing out bad apples and whilst you could say he is for what he has done. It's not a crime to fall in love and feel hopeless in situations, making mistakes... So if he has managed to fool me then boy is he exceptionally good at this game he is playing. 

[Kiki55]

22 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Most people don’t trust blindly. Trust is earned. Rather than shifting the blame to you, he could earn your trust by communicating with you, being honest and transparent, and following through on his intentions. When he does that, he will begin to earn your trust...

He says he has been honest with me from the start, which he has (I believe) he never promised me the world... he didn't intend on falling in love with me (I never intended on this either) he said that if he wasn't serious about me he would have slowed things down, not split (albeit not moved out) with his wife when I hadn't even asked him to. He does fight a fair corner at the moment but this date will be the pinnacle of our relationship. Everything he has said he has followed through with, he has never let me down yet. I pray this won't be when he does but I will prepare (as much as I can) for the worst)

[spiritedaway2003]

Kiki, you're going to get all sorts of advice, so here's mine for you.

Take all the advice you get here with a grain of salt.   I think most of people who posted here mean well and don't you to get hurt (or get taken for a ride).  There are a lot of commonalities in these stories, but your story is your own.  I'm sure you have a lot of your mind.  I am sure you know the situation is a mess.   I'm sure you wished you could have done things differently.   Lamenting on the past isn't going to help you know, though understanding how you got here will help you in this and future relationships.   

You have the potential to get hurt here....but I'd say not anymore than anyone who might get hurt by opening their heart to someone else.  I'd gently add that it's a little naive to think that kids or others won't eventually figure out the truth, and that will open up a world of hurt when the time comes.   I guess I can understand the MM thinking.  If the relationships with your respective spouses are ending, why add another complicating layer on top of it?  It's conflict avoidant behavior, but it's also not completely illogical.   What it does is that it pushes out the day of reckoning.  It's not a matter of if, but when.   

I would agree Bailey's with slowing everything down, if you can, especially with the kids.   

As for the timeline, you already agreed on the two weeks, so just wait and see if he delivers.   If you trust him, give him that time to see what he can get done between now and then.  People on this board like to say that "actions speak louder than words".  Personally, I think two weeks is too short to move out and get things done in the midst of a lockdown, but here's his chance.

(The only thing I worry for you is whether you are both clear in what you expect when the date comes.  If you were clear in what you were looking for and he understood the same, then you'll know soon enough). 

I think it's good that you understand that you could get your heart broken.  Know that the possibility of getting hurt doesn't end with this deadline.  I wish you love and peace.

Edited May 23, 2020 by spiritedaway2003

[Beca L]

1 minute ago, Kiki55 said:

It's not a crime to fall in love and feel hopeless in situations, making mistakes... So if he has managed to fool me then boy is he exceptionally good at this game he is playing. 

I totally get it. I’m still in love with my xMM and heartbroken by what he did. But at the beginning we were exactly like you and your MM. He left his wife when he said he would, he and I spent a year together as a couple. He met all my family, friends and I met his. We holidayed in Italy and Bruges and many places in the UK. 
It was love but sometimes love just isn’t enough. He was a coward and when things started to go wrong with his kids not speaking to him, my kids having issues with him, my xH, living arrangements. Etc he went running back to her. 
What I’m trying to say is that he may well love you and say all these things to you about being together but action is what really counts. He needs to show you his true intentions and hopefully he will be a stronger and more courageous man than my xMM. 

[Kiki55]

38 minutes ago, S2B said:

Well when Tuesday comes if he doesn’t say he is moving immediately then end it.

i agree he is disrespectful to both you and his family by seeing you and putting everyone at risk. 
 

keep that boundary FOR YOURSELF. If he doesn’t show you his plan to move Tuesday - He isn’t gonna make a change.

I have asked him to share this information with me. 

I have sent him the below message but we have already said goodnight so I am not expecting a response tonight. 

 

 

 If in your head you have a plan and are 100% doing this, then for you, you can sleep (figuratively) easy knowing your intentions for us. But for me... I'm waiting for this date where there are several possible outcomes... it's a full on mind f***

I'd have to be a complete physcopath to not be affected by it. 

It would be nice if you could let me know what plans you are making, it would certainly help me to keep positive. 
 

I shall see what response I get in the morning 

[Kiki55]

4 minutes ago, S2B said:

He still lives with her! What makes you think he told her he has spilt from her? 
there's been absolutely nothing that proves this to you.

 

I know this, but what kind of proof can he provide other than following through and moving out on 5th June. 

[Kiki55]

Just now, S2B said:

Any man who has a definite plan to move right away would happily show you proof, thus giving you the peace of mind you’re begging him for.

i don’t think he has any plan to leave his wife.

I don't know what proof he can provide right now? 

[Kiki55]

5 minutes ago, Beca L said:

I totally get it. I’m still in love with my xMM and heartbroken by what he did. But at the beginning we were exactly like you and your MM. He left his wife when he said he would, he and I spent a year together as a couple. He met all my family, friends and I met his. We holidayed in Italy and Bruges and many places in the UK. 
It was love but sometimes love just isn’t enough. He was a coward and when things started to go wrong with his kids not speaking to him, my kids having issues with him, my xH, living arrangements. Etc he went running back to her. 
What I’m trying to say is that he may well love you and say all these things to you about being together but action is what really counts. He needs to show you his true intentions and hopefully he will be a stronger and more courageous man than my xMM. 

This breaks my heart. I feel this pain so deep for you and I feel in a few weeks time, my story could echo yours. 😔 

[BaileyB]

9 minutes ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

Personally, I think two weeks is too short to move out and get things done in the midst of a lockdown, but here's his chance.

I don’t disagree, but he should clearly be making plans. He should be tying to sign a lease, trying to get some furniture, hiring a moving truck, ordering new dishes online, telling his family... Gosh, I just moved this past fall and it was a process! Not just something you wait and see if - surprise - he’s going to do on June 5th. Moving takes planning, and he can most definitely communicate what he is doing to plan to move out in the next few weeks...

Edited May 23, 2020 by BaileyB

[Kiki55]

8 minutes ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

Kiki, you're going to get all sorts of advice, so here's mine for you.

Take all the advice you get here with a grain of salt.   I think most of people who posted here mean well and don't you to get hurt (or get taken for a ride).  There are a lot of commonalities in these stories, but your story is your own.  I'm sure you have a lot of your mind.  I am sure you know the situation is a mess.   I'm sure you wished you could have done things differently.   Lamenting on the past isn't going to help you know, though understanding how you got here will help you in this and future relationships.   

You have the potential to get hurt here....but I'd say not anymore than anyone who might get hurt by opening their heart to someone else.  I'd gently add that it's a little naive to think that kids or others won't eventually figure out the truth, and that will open up a world of hurt when the time comes.   I guess I can understand the MM thinking.  If the relationships with your respective spouses are ending, why add another complicating layer on top of it?  It's conflict avoidant behavior, but it's also not completely illogical.   What it does is that it pushes out the day of reckoning.  It's not a matter of if, but when.   

I would agree Bailey's with slowing everything down, if you can, especially with the kids.   

As for the timeline, you already agreed on the two weeks, so just wait and see if he delivers.   If you trust him, give him that time to see what he can get done between now and then.  People on this board like to say that "actions speak louder than words".  Personally, I think two weeks is too short to move out and get things done in the midst of a lockdown, but here's his chance.

(The only thing I worry for you is whether you are both clear in what you expect when the date comes.  If you were clear in what you were looking for and he understood the same, then you'll know soon enough). 

I think it's good that you understand that you could get your heart broken.  Know that the possibility of getting hurt doesn't end with this deadline.  I wish you love and peace.

Thank you for your words. They are both comforting and enlightening. 

The mess is done. I can't undo this. 

My aim now is to follow and protect my heart - very hard to do both at the same time. 

 

[Kiki55]

3 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I don’t disagree, but he should clearly be making plans. He should be tying to sign a lease, trying to get some furniture, hiring a moving truck, ordering new dishes online, telling his family... Gosh, I just moved this past fall and it was a process! Not just something you wait and see if - surprise - he’s going to do on June 5th. Moving takes planning, and he can most definitely communicate what he is doing to plan to move out in the next few weeks...

I thought I would provide some key information that might be of use.

He tells me:

His kids know they are separating.

His family, mum, dad, siblings, friends all know too.  

He doesn't intend to buy furniture - he's getting a furnished place. I've seen him browsing, before I had even brought up the moving out conversation.

He told me a few days ago he plans to rent a house instead of an apartment as he wants a garden. 

I know he has taken a permanent job at our company (he was consulting before and has done for all his career this is a big step in my opinion) 

We used to text on a private app morning until evening but as soon as they split, we switched to WhatsApp. 

I found her FB - the day after he told me they split, she changed her pic from them to her alone.

I never asked him to leave her

He told me he loved me first 

He stopped wearing his wedding ring

She never calls or texts in the day anymore 

Seen texts from his family sending condolences about their split 

We are public at work (both announced separation from our spouses prior) he does not live in the town of work 

He travels 100 mile round trip every day to see me - arrives at 6:30am

I have a credit card of his - not sure if this is of any relevance - What is the opinion on this? 

[Zona]

I don't mean this as an insult, but in relationships, I've never found being desperate and clingy helps anything and is almost always counter productive.

The fact that your are ready to rush headlong into a serious relationship with a married man without much thought about anything else may be off-putting to him.

I could be wrong, but perhaps your sudden panicked rush to jump into this is partially because you want to justify your actions of late. If you and AP don't end up together (statistically very likely you won't), then you could end up alone and estranged from your children and ex. hubby for basically nothing. Sorry for the 2x4 but these things are worth at least thinking about.

In your mind, you've turned this guy this guy into some kind of magical mythical person who is larger than life. That is who you are "falling in love with". 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Zona

[BaileyB]

Sorry Kiki, where I live it is very uncommon to rent a home furnished. And if you did, well... it’s probably not somewhere you would want to live - if you know what I mean. It must be a difference in location, the thought never even occurred to me that he could rent a furnished apartment or home. It’s just not very common here at all...

So, perhaps it is possible that he could pack a bag and move one day... I don’t know. I do know that his words wouldn’t mean much to me, it’s easy to say you have told your family you are leaving... it’s another thing altogether to actually do it. I would be waiting to see what happens on June 5th... to see if his actions match his words. That’s about all you can do at this point. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by BaileyB

[heartwhole2]

3 hours ago, Kiki55 said:

If he leaves I know that he has then been true to me from the start... but if he doesn't then it's all been a lie and and I will move on and be glad that I escaped an absolute psychopath.

I do think, if he doesn't leave, that you should move on. And for many people it helps to vilify the exAP in order to get angry enough to take charge of their life and move on. But I daresay that an extremely small percentage of the many, many MM who do not wind up with their OW are psychopaths who went into the relationship scheming to take advantage of a person. If he just wanted sex on the side he could do that for a lot less trouble. 

I don't think oversimplifying the situation helps anyone. It doesn't help you to think that you and MM are the same person without any agency to stop from forming a romantic attachment when you've already got one. It also doesn't help to think of the MM as a con artist who went into this looking to gut you. Like you, he followed the feel-good emotions and the blissful escape from real life right into an affair. It happens every day because people follow the good feelings and then go back and do a little history rewriting here and pretzel logic there to justify it. 

The issue is that, if he isn't truly done with his marriage completely unrelated to your relationship, then he is frightened that he's making a mistake. When he's with you ignoring his own kids and being treated like a cool guy by yours, life feels great. But it's not going to feel great when he makes big changes. It's easy to live a double life when work is so far away from home . . . is he willing to join those two lives?

My advice to you is to focus on yourself as much as possible. You pride yourself in your ability to suss out bad apples, and he's certainly not screaming "conniving psychopath" to me, but you seem to have missed the clues to his character flaws -- immaturity, blame-shifting, conflict avoidance, etc. But enough about him -- use this time to worry about your own coping skills, your own ability to be OK on your own without a relationship, etc. Right now you're the person possibly risking your career and paying too little attention to your children's well-being because it feels good. Those decisions weren't inevitable because of a bigger than life connection you have with MM; those were choices that you made. What do you need to do to make sure you are making the most healthy choices from now on? 

[BaileyB]

I tend to agree with heartwhole, while calling him a psychopath may feel good... he is no more of a psychopath than you are a “home wrecker.” You are simply two people who had an attraction for each other/developed feelings and followed those good feelings... seeking to escape if only for as long as the reality of the situation be denied. Sure, you have taken the steps to try and make this fantasy your reality. But, he has not - yet. And if he doesn’t leave his wife, it will not be the end of the world. You will no doubt move on, wiser and stronger for having had this experience.

Kiki, you seem like a well meaning and lovely person. I think you are making some poor choices here, but nobody moves through this life without making mistakes/learning the lessons that need to be learned. Further to what heartwhole said, I really think you would be wise to take some distance, at least during this waiting time. Focus on your own well being, spend time with your children, and try to look big picture. When you are in the middle of a situation, it’s impossible to have a clear view of the situation and make decisions. It’s like, you can’t see the forrest for the trees. Perhaps with time, you will decide that you don’t need this stress and the complication of a man going through his own divorce in your life. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by BaileyB

[Amethyst68]

7 hours ago, S2B said:

Anyone can move TODAY if they REALLY want to move!

any delay means he’s full of crap!

stop waiting! When someone wants to be with another person NOTHING gets in the way! He’s got excuses - stop believing his words/lies.

his actions show what’s real! He is STILL there with his wife!

no rental agreement would mean squat...actually MOVING and getting the divorce finalized shows he will do it! Anything less and he’s just another liar.

start living life! Stop waiting for him to do anything! 

I can't believe I'm defending him but if in UK the lockdown prevents even visiting friends never mind moving in with them and hotels have been closed with talk them reopening in July I believe.

As I mentioned before the MM is risking criminal prosecution each time he goes to OP's house, he probably has a letter stating he's going to his place of employment but it's supposed to be your actual workplace. 

In the UK it's fairly common to rent furnished accommodation across all income levels.

N.B. I'm basing this post on certain things the OP said and phrases used. If not in the UK then please disregard although certainly other places within the EU have similar restrictions, some even stronger.

 

I'm still curious though if he's planning on leaving his family even more completely and moving to your locale (if he goes through with it). Difficult to have that time with children when he's not near them.

Perhaps you could move with your children nearer them, maybe meet halfway to keep it fair.

[Beca L]

7 hours ago, Zona said:

I don't mean this as an insult, but in relationships, I've never found being desperate and clingy helps anything and is almost always counter productive.

Couldn't agree more with this statement. I have found in my most recent experience with my xMM that when I was strong and set down boundaries and lines that i wouldn't cross things tended to go more in my favour. Any time I appeared clingy and desperate xMM backed off. 

Needy, clingy and desperate is not attractive ! 

[Beca L]

6 hours ago, S2B said:

If he rents a furnished place then it is an easy move to go back home - no new furniture paid for and less to lose. 
 

but seriously, IF he separated why wouldn’t he just go now to a hotel or rent a room from a friend? 
it’s easy,  you pack some stuff and move it to a new location. If he needs stuff later he sends for it or returns to pick up another truck load of stuff. 
 

any person - when you REALLY want to leave - you leave immediately. 

I have to agree with S2B. I can understand that because of lock down that it may not be possible to move to a hotel, although you mentioned that you are both key workers and I know that key workers can stay in hotels as my xH had to do this a few weeks ago because of his work as he travelled 250 miles away. So moving to a hotel is a possibility.

You mentioned about the wedding ring, just because he doesn't wear it with you doesn't mean that he doesn't put it back on before he goes home. My xMM stopped wearing his wedding ring after he went back to his wife. He said it was because he knew it upset me seeing him with it on at work. He did this for months, he would leave it in his car and put it on when he got back home!

I think that it may be a good idea to have a serious chat with him on Tuesday about your expectations. Spell it out completely that you don't feel comfortable with things carrying on as they are, be strong, don't get upset. Just state the facts, until he moves out and makes steps to end his marriage then it isn't right that he keep coming to your house, hanging with your kids etc whilst he remains married and living with his wife. It is unfair to everyone involved. 

Hope you are ok today. This is a very stressful time and I understand your pain as I've been there myself but you must not listen to words and empty promises.

Action is what really counts. After all love is a verb !!!

[Amethyst68]

You know I actually had to come back to make a point because I found myself getting so angry about one point.

Your children are still going to school, they are mixing with children of people who work in hospitals, care givers etc, they are essentially quite high risk at catching or carrying the virus.

This MM who should be working at home thinks nothing of risking his family's lives every day he comes to meet you, every day he plays with your children and then goes home to interact with his own family.

The selfishness of both of you is astonishing to me, and yes I'm saying both because as a mother you should have been telling him to stay away until lockdown is over and we all have permission to move about freely.

I take it nobody got ill but if so that's by sheer luck and it's not over yet.

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, Beca L said:

Needy, clingy and desperate is not attractive ! 

It may be unattractive but it also shows weakness.
People who are desperate, people who are "in love", become needy and clingy when it seems they may not be getting what they want. They feel that they are on shaky ground and their instinct it to grab on. 
The other person seeing such behaviour knows they have the upper hand, and can then accept or dismiss those worries and concerns from the other, with impunity.
It is no skin off their nose they are then confident in their position. They have a person in front of them, that they know loves them.
Their ground just became more stable.

Here, the decision is in the hands of the MM.
He calls the shots as Kiki is "desperate"  to make this work..
It all depends on where his head is at as to how he reacts to clinginess.
Clinginess to a person who is all in, can make that person go all gooey and increase feelings of love.
But if a person is not all in or does not want to do what is requested then clinginess can be a great excuse to step back and blame the other for being too clingy.
"I would have left but your "clinginess" made me think again", when in reality they were never leaving...