Romance/Intimacy sexual chemistry lacking, concerned

[metta4all]

Firstly, thank you to all the cyber-strangers in this forum who have given me the confidence to post on a rather sensitive topic.  Over the months of browsing here, i've found the topics/posts to be highly respectful and mature, hard to find these days;-)  Apologies in advance if I've posted in the wrong section since it's both sexuality and marriage related.  Just seeking some different perspectives, possible solutions, or advice from people in similar situations, particularly success stores haha!  I'll try to keep it concise...

My wife and I have know each other for 5 years, two of which have been as a married couple.  On almost all accounts, I can say that our relationship is the most "grounded," mature, spiritually-connected I've ever been in.  We love to do just about everything together, (and freely give space for activities we don't) never fight, rarely argue, and get along swimmingly with each other's friends and family.  She was the first woman that I dated where we actually started out as platonic friends, rooted in our shared spiritual community/practice...this went on for maybe 6 months before we started dating officially as a couple.  There was never a romantic or sexual attraction in the beginning, at best just a strong sense of compassion, caring, and desire to spend time with each other and just be ourselves.  I had just gotten out of a 5-year relationship, she had recently divorced from a short-lived marriage.  I really liked this dynamic and it was rather new to me.  Previously, almost all of my relationships followed a similar pattern:  Meet woman(either in real or online), go on a couple dates, see if there's chemistry...if so, things would get sexual quickly and we'd be off to the races.  Some relationships would fizzle out quick, others last for years.  I've been lucky in that I've had fantastic sexual chemistry with various partners since I was 16 (40 now) and it was always an important element in the mix and I tended to want to get a feel for the chemistry early on.  Meeting a woman and getting to know her without all that heady energy that surrounds new relationship sex and dating was really refreshing.  I just liked having a close friend without all the ambiguity and weirdness that sex can bring in during those uncertain times. 

Over time we become more physical(hand holding, movie cuddling) and eventually had sex.  It was lackluster.  No big deal I thought, we will try again.  And we did...and still just blah.  I felt reeeeealy awkward...I felt like if I ended anything, I'd be "that guy" just looking to score or being seen as player...or coming off as sex is the only important factor.  But given that every relationship is unique, I decided to try to work with this and find some sort of balance or middle ground.  As time went on, it was no secret to either of us that our libidos, kinks, and overall chemistry were very different....a mixture of cultural, experiential, and environmental factors.  We talked openly about this when frustrated and tried to find novel solutions.  I think these open honest discussions brought us closer emotionally and helped understand each other's nature, even if just a mental exercise.  We've learned a lot about each other's past that help explain and illuminate the present.  There were periods of frustration and also periods of feeling like we were finding some sort of environment where we were both hopeful that we could find common ground, "having the buttons pushed," as the saying goes.  We eventually got married. 

As hopeful as I've been, i'm starting to doubt...not really frustration, just acceptance of how it is.  For better or worse, I have had a lot of experience with different partners, from flings, to consenting FWB's, to long term monogamous and monogamish(where we had select couples we played with) and I know the feeling of being stimulated, excited, having the buttons pushed.  It's just not here, nor is it the cliche thing where the fire has burned out, where everything was hot in the beginning and has fizzled.  It was never hot in the beginning, nor in the middle.  I've just never looked at her like that.  While the sex we have is warm and cozy, it just doesn't do it.  So much of what I've always enjoyed about sexuality and intimacy...kissing, eye contact, flirting, lustful desire, lingerie shopping....just not there and I feel a little blah inside.  Everything is pretty predictable and I am more or less uninspired to try anything new, it's that feeling of trying to squeeze blood from a turnip.  I rarely initiate and sometimes I resist when she does, i'm just not interested. 

This is not a one way street, she feels it too.  She voices concerns that we are not romantic or intimate enough, that I seem uninterested.  All true and I can totally see how her needs are not being met either.  Its like, I want to want to desire her, but I don't.  In hindsight i wonder if we've been dancing around something we think is adaptable (chemistry) but in reality it's not?  Sometimes I can make the analogy of dancers or musicians....just because two people can play the guitar and sing well doesn't mean they will click together like Lennon/McCartney.  Ever dance with someone where the rhythm was just off all the time and you were always trying to get back on point instead of being in the flow?  It isn't personal, just an energy/chemistry thing. 

Not sure how to go forward with this.  While i'm experienced with some of these alternative styles of relationships, it's not really a solution here.  Sometimes I feel like I just want try to let my desire go, die on the vine, but I don't know how to do that.  Sometimes I feel like i'm "putting out" to save face and keep up the regularity(which is 1-2x per week) as to make it look like/feel that things are normal, saying nothing about the quality of the experience.  Or is that just suppressing my nature and bound to bite me in ass later?  We've talked about going to see a sex therapist and then COVID hit the next week.  We haven't closed the door on this but have not pursued it in the last couple months.  I feel like I'm married to my best friend in the world but not my lover, and i've swung so far out from what my past relationship dynamics had in the intimacy department that i'm in uncomfortable territory.....and feel shameful at the thought of ending anything just because i'm not "feeling it" in the bedroom whereas everything else is more or less awesome.
 

Ok, end rant haha.  Thanks for reading and I appreciate any insight, feel free to ask any questions if needed:-)

[oldtruck]

cannot fake chemistry

how about you both see a sex therapist?

 

[mark clemson]

My impression is that you are "lousy lays" to each other. (This isn't a dig - it's a matter of your personal "romantic chemistries" - with other people you're probably both better).

Possibly a sex therapist (who genuinely specializes in sex therapy) could help you with this. If you want to try that, suggest you look for a really good one and beware of flaky wierdos.

If that doesn't work, you'll have to decide if you want/can deal with being stuck with lackluster intimacy for the rest of your life.

One thing to consider is you're both older than you were and probably less emotionally intense. So you may be remembering and judging your current experience against "younger days" which may not be a 100% apples-to-apples comparison. Still, I'm getting towards 50 and the sex doesn't completely suck, so probably it shouldn't for you either.

[thefooloftheyear]

3 hours ago, metta4all said:

.  She was the first woman that I dated where we actually started out as platonic friends, rooted in our shared spiritual community/practice...this went on for maybe 6 months before we started dating officially as a couple.  There was never a romantic or sexual attraction in the beginning, at best just a strong sense of compassion, caring, and desire to spend time with each other and just be ourselves.  

 

I dunno….But this should be a cautionary tale about why raw sexual chemistry/attraction is usually vital for a successful LTR....You hear a lot of (mostly women) banging on about how all guys care about is getting laid and "why can't we just be friends and see where it goes or let the attraction build".....That may work in some cases, but it's a potentially perilous situation...

I don't think this is something that can be fixed...I could be wrong, but IME, its either there or its not....It's even more daunting as it sounds like she's not all that hot for you, either...This may actually be her "norm" and maybe she is getting worried to lose you because she senses that you aren't being fulfilled, but I dunno...

This may actually be the type of relationship that will work if you open it up...But I don't know there either....too many variables..and it's certainly not for everyone.

If it were me, id relegate it to a friendship and move on...Sounds like no kids involved so I don't think it will be that horrible...It also cant hurt to try therapy, but like I said, that wont be something that is likely to work...Id think for that to be successful, it would be easier to regain something that was once there...In this case, there is nothing to regain...

Good luck

TFY

[carhill]

38 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I dunno….But this should be a cautionary tale about why raw sexual chemistry/attraction is usually vital for a successful LTR....You hear a lot of (mostly women) banging on about how all guys care about is getting laid and "why can't we just be friends and see where it goes or let the attraction build".....That may work in some cases, but it's a potentially perilous situation...

Yep, concur, and I'll expand that the chemistry/attraction must IMO be synergistic and elemental as well. By synergistic I mean that both parties 'feel' it, not just one reacting to the other, and elemental means it's at the core of their personality, not manufactured by intellect.

If the desire isn't there in raw form, and I'm not speaking specifically of sex but rather a desire for the other human as a whole being, all of them, and if one or both parties values that beyond any association, then association will either never form or won't stand the test of time.

People do associate and marry for convenience all the time, to achieve goals as partners they might not achieve singly, but that's different than elemental love and desire and intimacy. We each choose what we want in life and how we go about attaining our goals. Sometimes we match up, other times not. Good luck with your choices and welcome to LS 👍

 

[giotto]

17 hours ago, metta4all said:

We eventually got married. 

 

Why? If sexual chemistry is so important to you, I just don't get it... you are only 40.

[stillafool]

Would sexual chemistry and passion be the same thing?

[carhill]

IME, depends on individual. I've seen the gamut. One sign that can be watched is how the various parties view physical affection. For some, it is an end to itself, for others it's a means to an end, generally sex. For some, it varies, in that there are no hard and fast paths. For some, affection is a symbol of appreciation, of thanks, for others desire, for others a mix, and dependent on time, place and mood. Can a person desire another and be passionate about them and not want to have sex with them? I can't imagine it for myself but have run into people who are fine with that and feel very fulfilled and bonded without sex. It's individual. Like I always say, if it don't flow, let it go. Each association is two unique individuals coming together in a unique way and a unique time in existence. Either it works for them or it doesn't.

[preraph]

I just think you feel more familial towards each other than romantic. you started out as friends and sometimes there is just no coming back from that. You end up being more like siblings and a familial feeling will kill sex drive. 

 

That said, many couples who do start off hot quickly cool off after marriage or children anyway and can end up in the same mindset, feeling more like the person is a family member and the familiarity has destroyed the lust. 

 

It sounds like you two get along great except for this. I guess you would make good parents together.  I'm kind of surprised to hear that she still wants to have sex if it's been that lackluster.

 

You may be having trouble having sex with someone you respect, but I tend to think it's more the familial thing I talked about above. But I'm sure you've heard of the syndrome where you only enjoy sex with women you don't really respect and respect the one you love too much to view as a sexual being because that would devalue her in your eyes. And that is more of a personal problem. 

 

I dunno you need to keep in perspective what a healthy relationship with sex is. And a lot of people are having the same frequency of sex you are and consider that a success. But I understand you're at the point where you would just as soon it went away. I think it's a given that it's not going to transform into what you hope it could be, sad to say.

 

 

[salparadise]

17 hours ago, metta4all said:

feel shameful at the thought of ending anything just because i'm not "feeling it" in the bedroom whereas everything else is more or less awesome.

I agree that sexual chemistry is innate, not something that magically develops if it wasn't there at first. I also don't understand, esp. given your experience, why you'd marry if that aspect was obviously missing. But that is what it is, and now the question is how to deal with it. I'm sure you've considered the options––stay, leave, or consider an open marriage. The open marriage could work if she's on board and there's zero jealousy or possessiveness, but these often deteriorate over time, or when one partner finds someone who really flips their switch. There have been many marriages where the wife was done with sex and the man takes a mistress in don't ask-don't tell way. This was even considered a gentlemanly thing to do in 19th century Europe, to spare the wife from duty sex. I do think you should maintain integrity and not destroy the part of the relationship that is working. What are you thinking?

[pepperbird]

20 hours ago, metta4all said:

Firstly, thank you to all the cyber-strangers in this forum who have given me the confidence to post on a rather sensitive topic.  Over the months of browsing here, i've found the topics/posts to be highly respectful and mature, hard to find these days;-)  Apologies in advance if I've posted in the wrong section since it's both sexuality and marriage related.  Just seeking some different perspectives, possible solutions, or advice from people in similar situations, particularly success stores haha!  I'll try to keep it concise...

My wife and I have know each other for 5 years, two of which have been as a married couple.  On almost all accounts, I can say that our relationship is the most "grounded," mature, spiritually-connected I've ever been in.  We love to do just about everything together, (and freely give space for activities we don't) never fight, rarely argue, and get along swimmingly with each other's friends and family.  She was the first woman that I dated where we actually started out as platonic friends, rooted in our shared spiritual community/practice...this went on for maybe 6 months before we started dating officially as a couple.  There was never a romantic or sexual attraction in the beginning, at best just a strong sense of compassion, caring, and desire to spend time with each other and just be ourselves.  I had just gotten out of a 5-year relationship, she had recently divorced from a short-lived marriage.  I really liked this dynamic and it was rather new to me.  Previously, almost all of my relationships followed a similar pattern:  Meet woman(either in real or online), go on a couple dates, see if there's chemistry...if so, things would get sexual quickly and we'd be off to the races.  Some relationships would fizzle out quick, others last for years.  I've been lucky in that I've had fantastic sexual chemistry with various partners since I was 16 (40 now) and it was always an important element in the mix and I tended to want to get a feel for the chemistry early on.  Meeting a woman and getting to know her without all that heady energy that surrounds new relationship sex and dating was really refreshing.  I just liked having a close friend without all the ambiguity and weirdness that sex can bring in during those uncertain times. 

Over time we become more physical(hand holding, movie cuddling) and eventually had sex.  It was lackluster.  No big deal I thought, we will try again.  And we did...and still just blah.  I felt reeeeealy awkward...I felt like if I ended anything, I'd be "that guy" just looking to score or being seen as player...or coming off as sex is the only important factor.  But given that every relationship is unique, I decided to try to work with this and find some sort of balance or middle ground.  As time went on, it was no secret to either of us that our libidos, kinks, and overall chemistry were very different....a mixture of cultural, experiential, and environmental factors.  We talked openly about this when frustrated and tried to find novel solutions.  I think these open honest discussions brought us closer emotionally and helped understand each other's nature, even if just a mental exercise.  We've learned a lot about each other's past that help explain and illuminate the present.  There were periods of frustration and also periods of feeling like we were finding some sort of environment where we were both hopeful that we could find common ground, "having the buttons pushed," as the saying goes.  We eventually got married. 

As hopeful as I've been, i'm starting to doubt...not really frustration, just acceptance of how it is.  For better or worse, I have had a lot of experience with different partners, from flings, to consenting FWB's, to long term monogamous and monogamish(where we had select couples we played with) and I know the feeling of being stimulated, excited, having the buttons pushed.  It's just not here, nor is it the cliche thing where the fire has burned out, where everything was hot in the beginning and has fizzled.  It was never hot in the beginning, nor in the middle.  I've just never looked at her like that.  While the sex we have is warm and cozy, it just doesn't do it.  So much of what I've always enjoyed about sexuality and intimacy...kissing, eye contact, flirting, lustful desire, lingerie shopping....just not there and I feel a little blah inside.  Everything is pretty predictable and I am more or less uninspired to try anything new, it's that feeling of trying to squeeze blood from a turnip.  I rarely initiate and sometimes I resist when she does, i'm just not interested. 

This is not a one way street, she feels it too.  She voices concerns that we are not romantic or intimate enough, that I seem uninterested.  All true and I can totally see how her needs are not being met either.  Its like, I want to want to desire her, but I don't.  In hindsight i wonder if we've been dancing around something we think is adaptable (chemistry) but in reality it's not?  Sometimes I can make the analogy of dancers or musicians....just because two people can play the guitar and sing well doesn't mean they will click together like Lennon/McCartney.  Ever dance with someone where the rhythm was just off all the time and you were always trying to get back on point instead of being in the flow?  It isn't personal, just an energy/chemistry thing. 

Not sure how to go forward with this.  While i'm experienced with some of these alternative styles of relationships, it's not really a solution here.  Sometimes I feel like I just want try to let my desire go, die on the vine, but I don't know how to do that.  Sometimes I feel like i'm "putting out" to save face and keep up the regularity(which is 1-2x per week) as to make it look like/feel that things are normal, saying nothing about the quality of the experience.  Or is that just suppressing my nature and bound to bite me in ass later?  We've talked about going to see a sex therapist and then COVID hit the next week.  We haven't closed the door on this but have not pursued it in the last couple months.  I feel like I'm married to my best friend in the world but not my lover, and i've swung so far out from what my past relationship dynamics had in the intimacy department that i'm in uncomfortable territory.....and feel shameful at the thought of ending anything just because i'm not "feeling it" in the bedroom whereas everything else is more or less awesome.
 

Ok, end rant haha.  Thanks for reading and I appreciate any insight, feel free to ask any questions if needed:-)

First off, have you already cheated on her? Second, after reading your  post, I get the feeling like I was being soft sold something-as if you know what you want to do, but you want someone else to say it's okay to do it.

What is it that you really came here for? Absolution? Advice?

[pepperbird]

15 hours ago, carhill said:

Yep, concur, and I'll expand that the chemistry/attraction must IMO be synergistic and elemental as well. By synergistic I mean that both parties 'feel' it, not just one reacting to the other, and elemental means it's at the core of their personality, not manufactured by intellect.

If the desire isn't there in raw form, and I'm not speaking specifically of sex but rather a desire for the other human as a whole being, all of them, and if one or both parties values that beyond any association, then association will either never form or won't stand the test of time.

People do associate and marry for convenience all the time, to achieve goals as partners they might not achieve singly, but that's different than elemental love and desire and intimacy. We each choose what we want in life and how we go about attaining our goals. Sometimes we match up, other times not. Good luck with your choices and welcome to LS 👍

 

a relationship built on what you describing won't last either. a combination of the two is needed.

[metta4all]

4 hours ago, pepperbird said:

First off, have you already cheated on her? Second, after reading your  post, I get the feeling like I was being soft sold something-as if you know what you want to do, but you want someone else to say it's okay to do it.

What is it that you really came here for? Absolution? Advice?

No, I haven't cheated on her nor do I have any desire to do so.  I'm here simply for advice, maybe learn something new that I haven't discovered, and honestly to just get some open feedback from people who are not my friends/family...

[metta4all]

21 hours ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I dunno….But this should be a cautionary tale about why raw sexual chemistry/attraction is usually vital for a successful LTR....You hear a lot of (mostly women) banging on about how all guys care about is getting laid and "why can't we just be friends and see where it goes or let the attraction build".....That may work in some cases, but it's a potentially perilous situation...

I don't think this is something that can be fixed...I could be wrong, but IME, its either there or its not....It's even more daunting as it sounds like she's not all that hot for you, either...This may actually be her "norm" and maybe she is getting worried to lose you because she senses that you aren't being fulfilled, but I dunno...

This may actually be the type of relationship that will work if you open it up...But I don't know there either....too many variables..and it's certainly not for everyone.

If it were me, id relegate it to a friendship and move on...Sounds like no kids involved so I don't think it will be that horrible...It also cant hurt to try therapy, but like I said, that wont be something that is likely to work...Id think for that to be successful, it would be easier to regain something that was once there...In this case, there is nothing to regain...

Good luck

TFY

Thanks for the reply:-)  Yes, maybe this was my wishful thinking, that this chemistry could build over time, that maybe through opening up to one another and learning about each others desires//kinks/fantasies we could maybe explore new avenues together and through that, develop novel ways that we both satisfy each others needs.  To an extent I've experienced this in the past however the big difference is that initial chemistry from the onset...it was there with past partners but not in this situation.  Furthermore, the chemistry/attraction/passion that would develop over time was more of like icing on an already decadent cake, not a filler. 
The whole idea of opening the relationship up is something I'd be ok to explore if it were genuinely accepted by her, but I think it's a long shot and it's not something I would push at all.  It would be an interesting conversation if a therapist brought it up.....to have that conversation in such a setting sounds more appealing.  She already knows the relationship I was in previously to this one was openish in that we had casual sex with other couples (always the two of us, never alone) and voiced her strong opinion against that, so end of conversation.  While it was really exciting and worked for us, It wasn't something I HAD to have going forward.

There was a period where I was seriously wondering if she is asexual or maybe liked women instead.  Turns out that sex just wasn't a prominent thing in any of her previous relationships, (which is only a couple) and she didn't become active til 28, and grew up in a conservative environment.  No bad experiences with it, just not very driven by it. 

 

Thanks again:-)

[DKT3]

I once read that once a man experiences an open relationship monogamy is very difficult to return to. 

I personally dont buy this not having sexual chemistry.  I know that its stronger from one partner to the next, and some are more compatible.  Its really a matter of matching energy and effort which is why we can experience both fantastic sex and horrible sex with the same partner. 

Question,  you've had amazing sexual connections in the past,  how did those relationships work out? 

To me it sounds like you have the foundation to build a lasting relationship and are seeking a perfect relationship,  they dont exist. 

Truth is everyone has to sacrifice something in any relationship,  why people dont understand that is amazing to me.

[salparadise]

45 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

Truth is everyone has to sacrifice something in any relationship,  why people dont understand that is amazing to me.

Sacrifice a healthy sex life? Seriously? I might sacrifice being able to wear my shoes in the house, but for some of us sex is central to a romantic relationship and marriage.

[DKT3]

Maybe it's just me, but I would much rather have blah sex with a woman I really enjoy then great sex with a woman I'd prefer not to send time with.

Sex is important,  however its importance decreases with age. The desire to be with someone outside of the bedroom is what sustains a relationship

[healing light]

7 hours ago, metta4all said:

To an extent I've experienced this in the past however the big difference is that initial chemistry from the onset...it was there with past partners but not in this situation.

This is the root of the problem, imo. I don't think you can manufacture what was never there. 

Why is the sex you do have lackluster? Do you just want two different kinds of sex? Something from your post made me feel like she would be satisfied if she felt desired by you, but you obviously don't desire her. That maybe she actually is attracted to you but you aren't to her.

In any case, I think the only real resolution to this is dissolving the marriage so you guys can find compatible partners. You might think you're sparing her pain or something to that effect by staying, but if she is into you and feels you aren't into her, you are keeping her from a man who will want all that she has to offer. Sounds like she already feels the slow death.

[5x5]

5 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Maybe it's just me, but I would much rather have blah sex with a woman I really enjoy then great sex with a woman I'd prefer not to send time with.

I don't know about you, yet I've never felt a compulsion or a need  to settle for either of those. I find it's far better to have great sex with a with a woman who I enjoy spending time with.

5 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Sex is important,  however its importance decreases with age. The desire to be with someone outside of the bedroom is what sustains a relationship

That may be the case for you. Yet for some of us having a great sexual part of a sexual relationship, remains an essential and critical component of holistically sustaining that sexual relationship.

At close to 24 years in with my wife who will be 50 this year and myself who will be 49. We find that great, varied and plentifully frequent sex, remains a critically important component in sustaining our great marital relationship.

Absent having that amongst other things, we would let each other go.

[Lotsgoingon]

There is nothing wrong with you guys admitting that as much as you love each other, marriage isn't for you. Might as well face that. It's unfair to both of you to be going through the motions of romance and sexuality.

There is no need to feel ashamed and petty or anything  bad about yourselves for coming to this realization. In fact, Integrity and honesty call on you two to be honest.  

BTW: just to go back a step, chemistry is usually there from the beginning or not. It rarely grows ... If sex is flat the first time ... and the second time ... likely it's going to always be flat. Likely there is a biological-chemical basis to the lack of passion. The mistake you made is very easy to make because sexual chemistry was present in almost all your previous relationships. So you just assumed it would come along in this relationship. Very easy mistake to make. 

I once dated a woman I considered beautiful ... loved looking at her ... but when we kissed, it was like my lips were rubbing up against a rubber inner tube of a bike. Our lips touched ... but there was no sensation other than the physical feeling of my lips pressing against hers. I've gotten more aroused touching my lips to a soda bottle. And to flip things, I later dated a woman who I didn't think was half as beautiful as the other woman ... and we kissed ... and fireworks, the heavens opened up. Strong chemistry.

Yes it's great to have a relationship with your best friend ... but ... a good romance also requires chemistry. Chemistry isn't sufficient for sure, but that doesn't mean it's unimportant. You have to have some common interests and values and capabilities and so on. But ... common values and interests and ease with each other ... do not make up for missing romantic chemistry. There's a special way we can pay attention to our partners when there is romantic chemistry involved. And yes, there is a huge different between the passion dying down ... and the passion, as in your case, never having been high in the first place. HUGE!!!!!!!

There's a great story out there about a prominent American political figure. He married his friend, a really high-achieving woman. Later he had a fling, which his wife suspected. Well one day the politician is at a reception standing next to his wife when the fling woman enters. The wife looks at her husband and sees how he checks out his fling, how his eyes light up.  The wife yells out, "You have never looked that way!" The missing chemistry had been hurtful to the wife and in that moment saw what she had been missing. 

Have you guys talked about separating? 

 

 

 

[Ami1uwant]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:51 PM, metta4all said:

Thanks for the reply:-)  Yes, maybe this was my wishful thinking, that this chemistry could build over time, that maybe through opening up to one another and learning about each others desires//kinks/fantasies we could maybe explore new avenues together and through that, develop novel ways that we both satisfy each others needs.  To an extent I've experienced this in the past however the big difference is that initial chemistry from the onset...it was there with past partners but not in this situation.  Furthermore, the chemistry/attraction/passion that would develop over time was more of like icing on an already decadent cake, not a filler. 
The whole idea of opening the relationship up is something I'd be ok to explore if it were genuinely accepted by her, but I think it's a long shot and it's not something I would push at all.  It would be an interesting conversation if a therapist brought it up.....to have that conversation in such a setting sounds more appealing.  She already knows the relationship I was in previously to this one was openish in that we had casual sex with other couples (always the two of us, never alone) and voiced her strong opinion against that, so end of conversation.  While it was really exciting and worked for us, It wasn't something I HAD to have going forward.

There was a period where I was seriously wondering if she is asexual or maybe liked women instead.  Turns out that sex just wasn't a prominent thing in any of her previous relationships, (which is only a couple) and she didn't become active til 28, and grew up in a conservative environment.  No bad experiences with it, just not very driven by it. 

 

Thanks again:-)

 

My ex came from a conservative backgroup so sex was a problem.

how is the relationship outside the sex?  Is she romantic with you? Is there non sexual intimacy?

[metta4all]

On 5/20/2020 at 6:34 PM, DKT3 said:

Maybe it's just me, but I would much rather have blah sex with a woman I really enjoy then great sex with a woman I'd prefer not to send time with.

Sex is important,  however its importance decreases with age. The desire to be with someone outside of the bedroom is what sustains a relationship

I don't feel it's as black and white like this with my current situation or with any partners in the past.  Sure, if I'm boarding that one way trip to a deserted island for the rest of my life and I had to make a choice between blah sex with a cool woman or hot sex with the woman i'd rather not spend time with, of course i'd take the first option.  I do agree that the desire to be with someone outside of the bedroom is crucial and a big factor why I've chosen to be with the woman i'm with...life outside the bedroom kicks ass. 

[metta4all]

On 5/23/2020 at 8:55 PM, Ami1uwant said:

 

My ex came from a conservative backgroup so sex was a problem.

how is the relationship outside the sex?  Is she romantic with you? Is there non sexual intimacy?

The overall relationship outside of the bedroom/sex department is wonderful in pretty much all aspects....from the day we started hanging out almost 5 years ago, we've been at each other's side almost all the time aside from a family vacation here or there, or a solitary meditation retreat once in a while, which we both encourage for one another.  We get along great when together, and are fully supportive of having alone time or pursuing personal interests. 

There is plenty of non-sexual intimacy and touch, we hug regularly, hold hands all the time walking, cuddle on the couch watching movies, in bed, etc.  We are each other's loyal massage servants 😉  But it's not sexual and rarely does it ever lead to anything sexual.  On one hand, it's all very normal and comfortable for me.  I grew up in a very loving household with parents, grandparents, and relatives who were all affectionate touchy-feely types (NOT in the creepy way!!) and this has continued throughout my life where non-sexual intimacy, emotional, physical, spiritual, is the norm. 

The romance/flirty/chemistry aspect on the other hand is just absent on both fronts I feel.  No harm, no foul...It's just the dynamic.  A close friend once noted that we are like a wise old elderly couple, mature, etc...  Part of me took that as a compliment, and then my heart also sunk because it seemed to address the platonic side only, knowing full well that many couples are fully romantic in their golden years even if they are not having sex every day.  In the path of life, it's like we skipped the foreplay and went straight to the afterparty haha.

[metta4all]

On 5/20/2020 at 11:57 PM, healing light said:

This is the root of the problem, imo. I don't think you can manufacture what was never there. 

Why is the sex you do have lackluster? Do you just want two different kinds of sex? Something from your post made me feel like she would be satisfied if she felt desired by you, but you obviously don't desire her. That maybe she actually is attracted to you but you aren't to her.

In any case, I think the only real resolution to this is dissolving the marriage so you guys can find compatible partners. You might think you're sparing her pain or something to that effect by staying, but if she is into you and feels you aren't into her, you are keeping her from a man who will want all that she has to offer. Sounds like she already feels the slow death.

So the lackluster nature arises from a couple angles...partly in the act itself where it just feels more formulaic, mechanical....bodies off rhythm, no stimulating eye contact, no kissing chemistry.  Sure, we both enjoy ourselves and orgasm, but that in and of itself for me at least is a low bar.  Outside of the act itself, its all the stuff(or lack thereof) that leads up to sex, or lack thereof.  We don't flirt...we don't tease, we don't lust after each other...I feel creatively stifled in the sexual area, no interest or enjoyment tryng to explore new things, shopping for lingerie, toys, etc.  Even when there's attempt or an effort is made, it's like we are speaking different languages.  I've gone through some periods where I don't feel desired or desired in a way that turns me on and it sucks.  She has felt the same.  Neither of us "did" anything wrong.  So you are spot in in a way that she suffers when she doesn't feel desired.  But I don't think it's so much that she's into me and i'm not...it's that we are just not that into each other in the sexual way and if we are, it's not balanced in a way that appeals.      So we go through cycles where this frustration comes to the surface, we share it, and then carry on about our lives.  

[Ami1uwant]

58 minutes ago, metta4all said:

So the lackluster nature arises from a couple angles...partly in the act itself where it just feels more formulaic, mechanical....bodies off rhythm, no stimulating eye contact, no kissing chemistry.  Sure, we both enjoy ourselves and orgasm, but that in and of itself for me at least is a low bar.  Outside of the act itself, its all the stuff(or lack thereof) that leads up to sex, or lack thereof.  We don't flirt...we don't tease, we don't lust after each other...I feel creatively stifled in the sexual area, no interest or enjoyment tryng to explore new things, shopping for lingerie, toys, etc.  Even when there's attempt or an effort is made, it's like we are speaking different languages.  I've gone through some periods where I don't feel desired or desired in a way that turns me on and it sucks.  She has felt the same.  Neither of us "did" anything wrong.  So you are spot in in a way that she suffers when she doesn't feel desired.  But I don't think it's so much that she's into me and i'm not...it's that we are just not that into each other in the sexual way and if we are, it's not balanced in a way that appeals.      So we go through cycles where this frustration comes to the surface, we share it, and then carry on about our lives.  

 

I wonder if this is one sided on the non sexual behavior?  Are you the initiator? 

 

Maybe you both are asexual? Go to a sex therapist.