Pursuing Something with a Woman Who Has Been Cheated on Multiple Times

[Eyebrows]

Sorry if that was a long title.

I’ve known this woman through work but we don’t work together, or in the same building, and there’s no reason we have to interact on a daily basis because of work. We’re in different divisional areas.

But I’ve known her a bit for a while due to that, maybe a year. About a month ago, we ended up having a 4 hour phone call and spoke about personal stuff, I lost my Dad recently and she was taking about old relationships. She’s been cheated on by all 3 of her serious boyfriends and the first one put her into a lot of debt and it turned out she was paying for his dates with other women and escorts but she didn’t know.

i imagine this, at 27, would have a significant impact on self esteem and ability to trust and I’m juggling the potential reluctance and wariness that might bring with her maybe not being interested? It’s hard to tell. I’ve never had a phone convo that long before and it was nice to connect.

We’ve talked since then, she’s been sending me updates on things she’s been doing etc, she sent me a picture of herself last week. We’d been talking about me having shaved my head due to lockdown and she was talking about her roots and sent me a pic, where she’d posed in it. Her roots weren’t that bad but I thought it was a good sign she would send a photo? I sent one back if my shaved head and she’d said it hadn’t been as bad as she thought and I didn’t look like a thug (she was teasing me about that beforehand), and then starting to send 4 kisses at the end of texts.

I know it’s stupid and immature to read into things like kisses but I’m pretty sure she knows I like her, after we had the 4 hour convo I said I’d appreciated her listening to me talk about Dad and that i hadn’t expected to be on the phone 4 hours, but I’d enjoyed getting to know her better. Then followed it up setting when lockdown had ended I’d definitely be up For doing it more over coffee.
i don’t know if it’s clear that I’m interested in her, she said yess, she can’t wait for coffee shop coffee. But I said earlier this week, “give you a call later this week” and she replied “yeah, I can’t promise I’ll be in a good mood though”. I’d asked what was up and she’d said nothing, she was joking and was fine, so I don’t know if she was trying to put me off calling?

Basically, I don’t know if I was clear enough that I wanted to go out for coffee because I was into her or not and can’t tell if I’ve actually asked her out or not. And I’ve also got in the back of my mind that I don’t want to push things too hard because of all her exes cheating on her and how that might have impacted on her. She comes across as quite confident at times but I’d say that sort of thing must affect how you see yourself?

[salparadise]

Yes, she knows you're interested, and she is indicating that she is too. The stage is set once the opportunity presents, but you'll need to ask again for a specific time and place. Secondly, you can't do anything about her exes cheating and it isn't your problem to fix, so quit acting like that's a huge thing in your interactions with her. Be authentic, be true to your word, and show that you are reliable. She may have some trust issues (or not), but if so then they're her issues. You start at square one (neutral), not in a hole her exes dug. You may have to say that at some point if she uses that as an excuse for reticence, and if she can't get past it then you may want to reconsider a relationship. Relax, be your best self, and don't make assumptions or second guess things.

[Lotsgoingon]

Absolutely she knows you're interested ... 4 kisses ... definitely. Her comment about mood was an honest comment about the virus lockdown.  Heck, I can for sure NOT predict my mood these days. 

Yes, you asked her out. So when time comes, you go out for coffee. It's only in the going out that anything real becomes clear.  So you're worrying about the wrong thing. I don't see any barriers she's throwing up. And remember a first in-person meeting is just that ... you don't do that much flirting beforehand. You do that at the initial meeting. 

Now to back up, to touch on her history of being cheated on by 3 people. I dated a woman who had a bunch of guys cheat on her and disappoint her. Here's what you're looking for. You want to be looking for some insight she has gleaned from this experience, from her reflecting and thinking hard about how she could pick three cheaters and miss that all of them were cheating. If she's just seeing herself as a random victim of bad luck, she's missing the boat. It happens though that often we need to experience the same problem 10 times, 20 times before we open our minds to the possibility that we are part of the problem. 

Here's the danger in dating someone like this. One, her being cheated on ... is already in your head. You don't want any history like this in your head. You want to meet her and judge her as you would judge anyone else. You do NOT want to be more warm, or trusting, more anything with her ... based on her history. It's also easy for a person in your position to think that if you're just a great guy, she'll heal from this past pain and betrayal. Nope! She has to heal and do the work of healing on her own. 

Also, it is easy for you to think that if you're being nice, she'll like you. Nope. Nope. Nope. Some people are just attracted to cheaters and pass up opportunities to date non-cheaters. When you go out with someone, you are not doing social work. You are a not a trauma healer. You're looking for someone who is ready to date now, healthy and healed enough to date now. I would say you did something really good here ... which is you had her take care of you ... about your dad's death. That's so important that you don't get in the habit of taking care of her and focusing on being her helper. You want the helping to go both ways. Always!

 

[Fletch Lives]

She might have trust issues that need to be addresses through counseling. And/or there might be a reason all those guys cheated on her, she might be high maintenance. But you'll find out if you date her. Just listen to your gut.

[Eyebrows]

It turns out she hadn’t realised I’d asked her out and thought it was just a coffee catch up. Maybe I should’ve been more explicit about it being a date from the start, I hadn’t wanted to label it though. But yeah she said she didn’t want anything romantic and was sorry if she ever gave off that impression.

Really disappointed.

[d0nnivain]

Nope  You are in her friendzone.  That is why she told you about the bad priors.  She was confiding in you like a BFF, not a potential BF.  If she wanted to date you she would not have been so forthcoming about the problems in her life.  She would have wanted to keep her skeletons in the closet so you saw her in the best / most flattering light.  However it's OK to let one's guard down in front of a friend.  

[Lotsgoingon]

Wow, isn't this the 4 kisses woman? Sorry about this, OP.

The good news is: this woman is socially inept as revealed by her 4 kisses. I don't know how 4 kisses at end of a text can be platonic. So, you would have run into problems had you and she gotten involved ... because there is some disconnect between how she feels and her behavior.

Not sure you needed to be any more explicit. 

 

[Eyebrows]

So, as an update to this, I spoke to her for 7.5 hours tonight on the phone.

Turns out that she had been in a relationship for about a year and a half with someone who also works in our field though not our office and had it on the downlow. So around the time I’d asked her out she had been dealing with that - he also left her for somebody else.

She said she was sorry for not being upfront and she hadn’t wanted me to think that at a different time it wouldn’t have happened, but by the end of the call we’ve arranged to meet.

I’m going to be cautious because I don’t want to be a rebound, so we’ll see where it goes.

[JTSW]

It seems she has a habit of picking cheating a**h***s to date.

Either that or she somehow drives men away after a certain point.

It is kind of odd that every guy she has dated has cheated on her.

Only one way to find out.

[gaius]

She has a type.

Unless you want to turn her on by being a cheating ahole yourself, I'd pass.

[Eyebrows]

Yes, we aren’t meeting up.

There were a few other things in that phone call that didn’t sit right with me. After she said she hadn’t wanted me to think it wouldn’t happen if the timing had been different, she’d asked me what she was doing wrong and that after all her relationships broke down there’s always someone sweet when the timing is wrong and she always thinks later “what if?”. I said I didn’t feel I could give advice since I’d just asked her out, but she pressed, and I’d started talking about being attracted to her because she’d been different to the exes, then stopped again because I didn’t think that was going to do any good.

She said she wanted me to keep talking so I did.

At the end if this call, we’d switched to FaceTime and she was in bed in her underwear, covered up mostly but...I just don’t think that’s appropriate with someone who you know is into you if you’re not into them. And a sad face when we had to stop talking.

She really did share her whole life story, fleeing domestic violence, father being a rapist and sent to prison, completely absent from her life obviously, a lot more things going on too. And we listened to this piano piece that she says always gives her hope for the future, the whole thing felt intimate.

But I’d been thinking about the call a lot and was worried, so I’d text her, she rang me to say she didn’t want me judging her because of her past, I brought up other things with the call cause I wanted to know where I stand. We agreed best not to meet up this week, she’d still wanted to initially. She said she speaks to all her friends for hours at a time and she is open in general, what I took away is that it didn’t feel as big a deal opening up like that. That she’d been drunk on the call and can’t remember all of it, but that she was sorry.

Text me after saying “sleep well mister xx” cause I think she felt bad. Said she wants to stay friends, she thinks I’m attractive, but at the moment the idea of dating anyone sounds like the worst possible thing so soon after the relationship ending, which is fair. But I’ve said at the moment, I want to deal with my bereavement issues and I’m clearly attracted to her and wanting something more intimate so at this point meeting ups probably not the best. She said down the road if I want to be friends it’s a clean slate, that she does appreciate making new friends especially ones she can tell her life story to and I think she’s genuine in that, but the phone convo last week muddied the waters again that I don’t feel I can be bothered.

Edited June 8, 2020 by Eyebrows

[JTSW]

She's been through alot, which makes me question the validity of all these cheating claims.

Every guy she dated cheated on her? 

Did they actually cheat or did she just convince herself they were?

Something about her doesnt sit right.

17 hours ago, Eyebrows said:

we’d switched to FaceTime and she was in bed in her underwear, covered up mostly but...I just don’t think that’s appropriate with someone who you know is into you if you’re not into them.

Yeah this is completely innopropriate.  

[Juha]

 

She is telling you she is damaged and to not waste your time on her...

 

When someone tells you something listen to them

 

Move on and find someone who is not messed up and actually wants to date you

[d0nnivain]

More friendzone stuff for you. 

She doesn't date nice guys.  Her pattern is to find sweet guys like you who prop her up after the jerks she dates decimate her.  She's on the same merry-go-round.  I suggest you get off because all you will be is her shoulder to cry on.  She will never date you because she only likes jerks.  She's never grown out of the bad boy thing.  Next.  

[Eyebrows]

On 6/10/2020 at 2:19 PM, d0nnivain said:

More friendzone stuff for you. 

She doesn't date nice guys.  Her pattern is to find sweet guys like you who prop her up after the jerks she dates decimate her.  She's on the same merry-go-round.  I suggest you get off because all you will be is her shoulder to cry on.  She will never date you because she only likes jerks.  She's never grown out of the bad boy thing.  Next.  

Yep. You were right. She doesn’t even want to be friends anymore now. She’s dating someone new and says she feels awkward talking to me because of the confusion I had after we had the 7 hour convo.

So that’s that. Didn’t want to lose her as a mate. But maybe we were never properly friends. Trying to think about red flags etc to perk myself up and tell me I’m better off not having dates her/being friends but it’s disappointing that just one month ago she was making sad faces cause we had to stop speaking and now doesn’t even want friendship. Keep thinking what if I’d just met her a few weeks ago.

[Acacia98]

On 5/21/2020 at 9:03 AM, Lotsgoingon said:

Absolutely she knows you're interested ... 4 kisses ... definitely. Her comment about mood was an honest comment about the virus lockdown.  Heck, I can for sure NOT predict my mood these days. 

Yes, you asked her out. So when time comes, you go out for coffee. It's only in the going out that anything real becomes clear.  So you're worrying about the wrong thing. I don't see any barriers she's throwing up. And remember a first in-person meeting is just that ... you don't do that much flirting beforehand. You do that at the initial meeting. 

Now to back up, to touch on her history of being cheated on by 3 people. I dated a woman who had a bunch of guys cheat on her and disappoint her. Here's what you're looking for. You want to be looking for some insight she has gleaned from this experience, from her reflecting and thinking hard about how she could pick three cheaters and miss that all of them were cheating. If she's just seeing herself as a random victim of bad luck, she's missing the boat. It happens though that often we need to experience the same problem 10 times, 20 times before we open our minds to the possibility that we are part of the problem. 

Here's the danger in dating someone like this. One, her being cheated on ... is already in your head. You don't want any history like this in your head. You want to meet her and judge her as you would judge anyone else. You do NOT want to be more warm, or trusting, more anything with her ... based on her history. It's also easy for a person in your position to think that if you're just a great guy, she'll heal from this past pain and betrayal. Nope! She has to heal and do the work of healing on her own. 

Also, it is easy for you to think that if you're being nice, she'll like you. Nope. Nope. Nope. Some people are just attracted to cheaters and pass up opportunities to date non-cheaters. When you go out with someone, you are not doing social work. You are a not a trauma healer. You're looking for someone who is ready to date now, healthy and healed enough to date now. I would say you did something really good here ... which is you had her take care of you ... about your dad's death. That's so important that you don't get in the habit of taking care of her and focusing on being her helper. You want the helping to go both ways. Always!

 

Wow. This is an amazing response.

[Acacia98]

27 minutes ago, Eyebrows said:

Trying to think about red flags etc to perk myself up and tell me I’m better off not having dates her/being friends but it’s disappointing that just one month ago she was making sad faces cause we had to stop speaking and now doesn’t even want friendship. Keep thinking what if I’d just met her a few weeks ago.

I kind of get the impression that she was manipulating you because she essentially enjoyed getting all that attention from you and wanted it to go on until she had someone else to keep her preoccupied.

It also seems she doesn't have proper boundaries: that she can have conversations with "all her friends" for hours, that she was apparently in her underwear but covered up when video chatting with you ("just a friend")... These are not good signs. I'm guessing that, if you had dated her, somewhere along the way, you might have started to think she was cheating on you.

[dangerous]

OP. 4 hour phone calls, 7.5 hours! Alarm bells: she is totally self-absorbed to invest these amounts of times into a call with you! And you are being needy doing the same. Its too intense, you are rebounding, trying to fill gaps in your emotions from someone who is not genuine: not healthy.