Covid 19 Testing

[CaliforniaGirl]

19 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I don't see it that way at all.
Drug that has been in use for decades and is considered very safe vs Covid-19 that if he gets it, it will likely kill him.

The president, you mean, believes 19 will likely kill him if he gets it?

[CaliforniaGirl]

18 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

It's approved for use in humans by the FDA. That's a pretty good indicator that it's reasonably safe to take under the supervision of a physician. Also, consider changing your news source. 

Insulin is approved for use in humans by the FDA. So are many blood pressure medications, cholesterol medications, steroids/antiinflammatories, a thousand drug categories. That doesn't mean they're safe for people not ill with those specific conditions, which is why there is no "generally" safe across the board and in fact, often warnings against off-label use - yes, under the direction of physicians. (And in this case it can't even be said that direction could be knowledgeably given by a physician since these trials are taking place due to *not* knowing if there will be any effect or if it is safe even if not effective, for non-sick people.)

My thyroid medication is definitely FDA-approved and has been for decades. Want some? Millions of people safely take it every single day, for decades and decades of their lives.

There is nothing yet to indicate that this drug will be safe for people who are not ill at all yet, and ill specifically with 19.

Edited May 22, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

The president, you mean, believes 19 will likely kill him if he gets it?

I don't know if he believes that but I guess he probably does.
He is definitely in a high risk group for severe illness or death if he gets Covid-19.
Over 70, obese BMI=30, has a "common form of heart disease" and high cholesterol (under treatment).

Edited May 22, 2020 by elaine567

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I don't know if he believes that but I guess he probably does.
He is definitely in a high risk group for severe illness or death if he gets Covid-19.
Over 70, obese BMI=30, has a "common form of heart disease" and high cholesterol (under treatment).

I agree. I just didn't think he did. But these actions do indeed seem to indicate otherwise.

[Redhead14]

1 minute ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I agree. I just didn't think he did. But these actions do indeed seem to indicate otherwise.

He's not taking that drug out of fear.  He hasn't been all that concerned because he won't wear a mask and doesn't support distancing.  He didn't wear a mask at the Ford plant either.  He's using it as a tool for getting votes. 

[elaine567]

A mask doesn't prevent you getting infected unless it is the full medical grade fitted PPE respirator mask with goggles, and as he is proven negative by daily testing, then he is not going to pass it on to anyone else.
 

[QuietRiot]

21 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

 

I'd be much more interested in a treatment then some alleged preventative especially because this thing mutates so fast.  

There's an update on this. It actually mutates slower than we had speculated.

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/novel-coronavirus-is-mutating-more-slowly-than-some-of-its-peers-so-what-does-that-really-mean/

 

  This is indeed good, recent news.

Edited May 22, 2020 by QuietRiot

[QuietRiot]

12 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

A mask doesn't prevent you getting infected unless it is the full medical grade fitted PPE respirator mask with goggles, and as he is proven negative by daily testing, then he is not going to pass it on to anyone else.
 

However, it's been proven now that if everyone wore masks, it can protect people at around a 75% via the transmission rate. (Protect at 75%). That's more definitive news. Doesn't matter the mask. It can be just a basic mask. You see...when we cough or sneeze, it jettisons the viral particles big time. The mask tremendously slows that down.

Watch it here:

 

There had been people also been wondering if it's re-infectious. It is not. There had been a ton of false positives where the antibody tests are quite sensitive to the virus as such it is picking up on a destroyed virus particles...and thus testing positive..in a recovered patient.

So we will be having herd immunity after all.

Edited May 22, 2020 by QuietRiot

[Redhead14]

15 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

A mask doesn't prevent you getting infected unless it is the full medical grade fitted PPE respirator mask with goggles, and as he is proven negative by daily testing, then he is not going to pass it on to anyone else.
 

It protects the wearer from it in a circular effort.  If everyone wears one, the exposure for everyone is reduced.  So if you're wearing one to protect someone else, you're protecting yourself indirectly.  And, since not every one is going to bother with it anymore after things loosen up, I'd say, a lot of us will just be sitting in wait for our turn at contracting it and unburdening society from having to deal with people who are older and/or have conditions that tax the healthcare system anyway (as some people have suggested is the prevailing attitude toward those people now).   And, I'm not buying that it doesn't protect the wearer.  If it prevents the virus from being blown out into the air, it provides some protection from breathing it in too.  Every little bit helps. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Redhead14

[elaine567]

4 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

However, it's been proven now that if everyone wore masks, it can protect people at around a 75% via the transmission rate.

Yes, and I could be wrong but does Trump really care about  anyone else enough to wear a mask that is probably not going to help him one bit...
He leaves everyone else to do that.
Politicians and celebrities like to stand out when they are working, Trump wearing a mask like every ordinary Joe is not the image he will want to portray.

[CaliforniaGirl]

34 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

He's not taking that drug out of fear.  He hasn't been all that concerned because he won't wear a mask and doesn't support distancing.  He didn't wear a mask at the Ford plant either.  He's using it as a tool for getting votes. 

Masks may be effective in reducing the degree of spread. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/19/coronavirus-wearing-a-mask-can-reduce-transmission-by-75percent-new-study-claims.html

 

ETA: sorry, I think I answered the wrong post. I was answering the post about how Trump doesn't wear a mask because he tests negative and because masks don't keep 19 from spreading. That may not actually be true.

The highest likelihood is that a. he's full of it about "taking" hydroxychloriquine (he stumbled and stuttered a lot and gave a lot of "I'm lying" indicators when he said it and variously said he's been taking it a week, a couple weeks, etc. in difference comments I believe on the same day), and b. he really does still think the degree of danger of 19 is a hoax. Even now.

Edited May 22, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[QuietRiot]

51 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Masks may be effective in reducing the degree of spread. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/19/coronavirus-wearing-a-mask-can-reduce-transmission-by-75percent-new-study-claims.html

 

ETA: sorry, I think I answered the wrong post. I was answering the post about how Trump doesn't wear a mask because he tests negative and because masks don't keep 19 from spreading. That may not actually be true.

The highest likelihood is that a. he's full of it about "taking" hydroxychloriquine (he stumbled and stuttered a lot and gave a lot of "I'm lying" indicators when he said it and variously said he's been taking it a week, a couple weeks, etc. in difference comments I believe on the same day), and b. he really does still think the degree of danger of 19 is a hoax. Even now.

Right, you're not suppose to take hydroxychloriquine  unless it's in a hospital environment and under close supervision of hospital staff. Not popping it like Advil.

[Ellener]

I feel that the social distancing is breaking down a bit here since the re-opening, humans will naturally revert to previous behaviours unthinkingly I guess, and I've found myself needing the mask in the same way I needed a cane one year- not so much for myself more as a reminder to others!

Hand-washing, social distancing and face covering seem to me to be the most important aspects of self-care to prevent a 'secondary wave'.

I'm not convinced that mass testing the well is the way to go as the WHO initially recommended, it seems like a waste of resources to me unless there is a clear goal of 'what happens next', though maybe the patterns of spread will be useful for mapping and preparing for pandemics of the future in terms of how many tests and PPE kits are required per population etc.

Tests need to be readily available for areas with ongoing large outbreaks, or for future new outbreaks. Some of the recently developed tests seem to need work on improving accuracy.

I read today that in Louisianna prisons where mass testing has been done large numbers of people have antibodies who have not shown disease symptoms. Hopefully someone is collating this in a scientific way and working out how it can be useful in figuring who gets sick and why.

 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, QuietRiot said:

Right, you're not suppose to take hydroxychloriquine  unless it's in a hospital environment 

Wrong,
People have been "popping" it for decades usually for malaria, rheumatoid arthritis and SLE.
The 40 000 people on the trial will not be in a hospital environment either...

[sothereiwas]

3 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

That doesn't mean they're safe for people

See also "under the supervision of a physician".

[QuietRiot]

43 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Wrong,
People have been "popping" it for decades usually for malaria, rheumatoid arthritis and SLE.
The 40 000 people on the trial will not be in a hospital environment either...

Yeah, but for Covid 19, different story than Malaria.

[Ellener]

3 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

Right, you're not suppose to take hydroxychloriquine  unless it's in a hospital environment and under close supervision of hospital staff. Not popping it like Advil.

People should also be careful with otc painkillers, loads of liver and kidney and stomach ulcer problems can arise! And the therapeutic dose of acetaminophin/paracetamol is very close to the toxic dose.

💊

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Yeah, but for Covid 19, different story than Malaria.

But Trump and all the people on the  trial do not have Covid-19.
The trial is for people who do not have and have never had the virus, to see if taking hydroxychloroquine prevents them from getting infected.

[QuietRiot]

29 minutes ago, Ellener said:

People should also be careful with otc painkillers, loads of liver and kidney and stomach ulcer problems can arise! And the therapeutic dose of acetaminophin/paracetamol is very close to the toxic dose.

💊

I forgot to mention, there are quite a few serious side-effects, one of them being of being emotional unstable...something we don't want in a world leader.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, QuietRiot said:

emotional unstable...something we don't want in a world leader.

I think someone changed all the rules and it's now a world leaders' prerequisite 🗣️  

[Juha]

 

Testing for this is like chasing a ghost, you test someone and they are negative and then what???

It makes absolutely zero sense to just test to test when it actually does nothing to be perfectly honest.

Test health care and nursing home workers daily before they are allowed into work and test people showing symptoms

other than that it is a complete waste.

Also let's throw in that around 30% of the tests are wrong.

 

On top of if you are under 50 or even 60 and healthy without underlying conditions you are pretty much not going to die

Just look at the numbers.  Yes there are people who die that are younger and with/without underlying conditions.

There have been a lot of over 70 who have gotten this and have recovered but you never hear any of that.

 

Besides we need to have as many healthy young people who are pretty much not at risk so this thing has no more hosts to jump to

and will pretty much go away when that happens, keeping people looked up is the exact opposite of what needs to be going on.

You can't hide from or outrun a virus, it is still there and the same amount of people with get it or die from it  no matter

Keeping people locked up just extends out the time line of the virus and gives it a chance to mutate into something that affects people differently

or maybe even children.  

 

Keeping people locked in just causes more health issues on top of as we now see suicides are skyrocketing!  We will be paying the price

for a long time with how many people that are affected by this and never have had or have but never were sick from Covid 19

 

We locked down to prevent hospitals being over run which was prudent but that was weeks ago, now we are just hurting people for no reason

[Ellener]

@Juha these are my own thoughts, ie. don't waste the tests with no clear goal in mind, and refine the testing.

The lockdowns being eased needs to be managed locally by community leaders and responded to quickly if new infections arise.

The elder care and nursing homes ( my main area of work ) are a big concern though. As soon as the strict lockdown is relaxed at all new infections arise and spread rapidly...but the people living there can't realistically be confined to their rooms with no visitors or activities forever. I expect the people in independent and assisted living to start moving out if they are told they must stay in strict lockdown for the forseeable future. I'm sure there are imaginative solutions using technology and reorganising the activity arrangements but it's not an industry very open to innovation or investment in positive change. 

If I were a CEO of such a company that's what I would be looking for though- to change things for the better for quality of life all round. Infections were common in nursing homes prior to the pandemic, so was lack of handwashing and misuse of PPE, very common citations by inspectors. Understaffing and poor quality training ( or no training ) has been common for years. 

The testing and PPE is supposed to be being dealt with at federal level right now, but the pandemic has highlighted the general disregard which we have for the older population. There are lots of positive 'mission statements' in the elder care industry which do not translate to adequate treatment of seniors or staff ( it's very common in Texas to see care staff jobs advertised for around $8 an hour )

Edited May 23, 2020 by Ellener
spelling

[QuietRiot]

26 minutes ago, Ellener said:

@Juha these are my own thoughts, ie. don't waste the tests with no clear goal in mind, and refine the testing.

The lockdowns being eased needs to be managed locally by community leaders and responded to quickly if new infections arise.

 

Sadly, as soon as our governor extended out State of Emergency...a local, back water town announced that their police will NOT be policing those who are not participating in social distancing rules. I'm guessing it's because they don't have the man power to waste on that? Bigger fish to fry?

[QuietRiot]

29 minutes ago, Ellener said:

@Juha these are my own thoughts, ie. don't waste the tests with no clear goal in mind, and refine the testing.

The lockdowns being eased needs to be managed locally by community leaders and responded to quickly if new infections arise.

The elder care and nursing homes ( my main area of work ) are a big concern though. As soon as the strict lockdown is relaxed at all new infections arise and spread rapidly...but the people living there can't realistically be confined to their rooms with no visitors or activities forever. I expect the people in independent and assisted living to start moving out if they are told they must stay in strict lockdown for the forseeable future. I'm sure there are imaginative solutions using technology and reorganising the activity arrangements but it's not an industry very open to innovation or investment in positive change. 

If I were a CEO of such a company that's what I would be looking for though- to change things for the better for quality of life all round. Infections were common in nursing homes prior to the pandemic, so was lack of handwashing and misuse of PPE, very common citations by inspectors. Understaffing and poor quality training ( or no training ) has been common for years. 

The testing and PPE is supposed to be being dealt with at federal level right now, but the pandemic has highlighted the general disregard which we have for the older population. There are lots of positive 'mission statements' in the elder care industry which do not translate to adequate treatment of seniors or staff ( it's very common in Texas to see care staff jobs advertised for around $8 an hour )

....wanted to add...esp. when you remarked about how people "cannot be confined forever". This may start to impact their mental well-being, thus....lowering their immunity via mental and emotional stresses.

Like a self-full-filling prophecy.

A lot of the naturopathic  experts feel the this will be the primary way people will get sick....via mental and emotional stresses. That lack of human contact can only last for so long...and could impact mental well-beings.

 

 

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, QuietRiot said:

....wanted to add...esp. when you remarked about how people "cannot be confined forever". This may start to impact their mental well-being, thus....lowering their immunity via mental and emotional stresses.

Like a self-full-filling prophecy.

A lot of the naturopathic  experts feel the this will be the primary way people will get sick....via mental and emotional stresses. That lack of human contact can only last for so long...and could impact mental well-beings.

 

 

I'm sure especially in the early days when people were unaccustomed to PPE and frightened there were literally heart attacks from fear. And everyone to some extent is affected by the inevitable anxieties. The media news doesn't help!

Seniors with dementia illnesses will have been hit especially hard.