Big shopping malls re-opening

[Eternal Sunshine]

In Australia, restrictions are easing quite a bit. This week, shopping malls have opened with about 20% of stores still closed. I went, for the first time in 3 months.

There are signs about social distancing everywhere, but in reality, nobody is doing it. Not on the stairs (you are supposed to leave 4 steps), not in the stores and not on public transport. They do make you sanitize your hands when entering most stores. Few have limits of no more than 5 people in the store. There is the smell of alcohol everywhere.

In general, I don't see myself going to malls for fun anymore. The whole atmosphere is tense, there is voice-over about dangers of coronavirus being played on a loop instead of music. It's hard to see how most shops will go back to the level of sales of pre-corona.

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BaileyB]

People are most definitely following social distancing rules here, and it is definitely working! We’ve had aLmost no new infections for weeks! People are feeling more confident to go out and gather with friends and family but still really observing social distancing. It’s amazing to me how quickly people have adjusted to this new normal. 

But I agree, shopping is not fun anymore. We have lineups forming outside of stores. You must sanitize your hand upon entering. You are told not to touch - get what you need and leave as soon as possible. I have no plans to go to a mall anytime soon. 

The saddest part for me, several very popular restaurants have closed in my city. My favourite stores are filing for protection/closing. I don’t see malls surviving this pandemic. I worry about what life is going to look like post-pandemic. What will be left?

Edited May 24, 2020 by BaileyB

[FMW]

Our area malls opened last week, but from what I've read online no more than 50% of the stores have chosen to open, if even that.  I certainly have no desire to go to a mall anytime soon, but then again that was never one of my favorite activities anyway.  

A lot of local bars and restaurants have announced they are closed for good now.  Alternatively, others with outside seating that I've driven by in the past two days over this holiday weekend have appeared to be crowded to the point there is no way they are keeping the proper distance.   

My friends have just started in the last 10 days or so getting together in very small groups, generally in people's backyards for cookouts.  But we're not all hugging each other like we used to do. It's still nice to reconnect in person though.  I don't have any plans to get out among people I don't know well for now beyond the necessary masked trips to the grocery store every week or so.    

[Redhead14]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

I worry about what life is going to look like post-pandemic.

There are too many people in the US with the attitude of "tough s*** for anyone who is at risk (whether through their own doing or not) and feel like a little population cleansing would be a good thing to cull out people who were burdens on society and the healthcare system before this anyway."  I'm betting the US will return to pretty much normal fairly soon, malls included.  People have short attention spans and many don't give a crap about anyone else but themselves and once things start really opening up, the majority will throw everything out the window because for them, it's not much of a threat (so they think now). 

Those at risk will have to adapt.  I have a fairly large network of 30 or so friends and family now who are keeping each other informed about places to avoid.  If an establishment isn't at least requiring masks, we don't patronize them even through delivery service. 

 

[BaileyB]

I don’t disagree. 

That hasn’t been the prevailing feeling in my country. Perhaps it will change as this pandemic drags out, but it really hasn’t been my experience thus far.

Edited May 24, 2020 by BaileyB

[Ellener]

I never go to malls anyway, so I won't go now, but they were struggling to compete profit with online, maybe this will give them a business boost as people go there nostalgically or realise they want there to be physical stores to visit.

Some of their big stores here have already filed bankruptcy, they were struggling before this and the real estate is probably worth more to investors rented or sold in smaller pieces long-term. Saying that people may well be marketed the nostalgia of a department store, if the merchandise was better-chosen.

The re-openings here are 25% capacity or 50% capacity in stages, there are signs everywhere about handwashing, not entering if sick, and social distancing. 

Responsible people are going to do those things. They did in general before I expect, since I did, it's impolite/unpleasant to crowd others or to be unclean!

The face coverings are counter-cultural to America so unlikely to 'stick' for everyone, there's enough people using them to keep the 'visual cue' reminder going, and I am very big on personal choice and freedom over social controls overall. People will feel unselfconscious who do wear them, 

Humans do seem to need to/like to crowd together more than they need space, I don't think that's going to change any time soon, and I've always avoided crowded places, it makes me anxious.

@FMW not a whole lot of hugging here any more either, but I was English born and raised so I am happy for affection to not be just routine rituals!

I moved home during the pandemic and said to my close friends 'visit when you feel comfortable to come out, let me know when you're ready' as most people are only just going out again.

A lot of the 'etiquette' of all this is about allowing people to do what makes them feel comfortable. 

Though there's a 'collective trauma' of everyone going through this together it's affecting us all differently as individuals.

I have worried about my seniors, with no visitors and very little contact, hugs and hand shakes and physical touch are very important in care homes, especially for dementia illnesses, I hope someone is still showing love there. I've written affectionate letters to some of them and I'll order some posters tomorrow for inspiration and advertising; it's going to be some time before I can go in person. My son's coming tomorrow so he can help me record some 'special music' mp3s I can send out and I'll reach out to see what I can do 1:1 via Zoom etc. 

 

[chillii]

Not much for shopping but l do love getting into town and around people and wondering about for whatever l need or just for the hell of it. Things are opening up again , it's weird and there's a consistent vibe all over l think if they keep getting on top of it though or it disappears or there's a vax , or something , it's very possible things could be normal again one of these days. l',m more worried about the shops being able to hold out or recover . There's a lot involved to keep a shop running , wages rents and heaps of costs , many will go under , many will just not come back or just stay online , gonna be a real shame all of that.

Strange , heard the other day in my state there hasn't been one case from a supermarket anywhere , not one, would've thought they'd be the breeding grounds , so small mercy's there that's for sure .

Saw a guy in my local supermarket a few times , he's been over my place a few times and we get alone well, usually waffle on no problem , although l don't know him real well or anything. He actually looked the other way, wtf , so l said eh Frank how's it going and we talked a bit from a mtr or 2 away , fk me saw him again few days ago and he actually shot down some isle to avoid talking . Been wondering ever since if l did something or people just don't know wth to be or do now , or wth.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by chillii

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, chillii said:

Not much for shopping but l do love getting into town and around people and wondering about for whatever l need or just for the hell of it. Things are opening up again , it's weird and there's a consistent vibe all over l think if they keep getting on top of it though or it disappears or there's a vax , or something , it's very possible things could be normal again one of these days. l',m more worried about the shops being able to hold out or recover . There's a lot involved to keep a shop running , wages rents and heaps of costs , many will go under , many will just not come back or just stay online , gonna be a real shame all of that.

Strange , heard the other day in my state there hasn't been one case from a supermarket anywhere , not one, would've thought they'd be the breeding grounds , so small mercy's there that's for sure .

What I'm wondering is, how do they know there hasn't been a case from a supermarket...how do they know where cases have been from? IOW, If people aren't getting them from public places where have they been getting them from? If from each other then how is that possible if they have been self-isolating...where have the cases in your area reported to have been contracted from?

[CaliforniaGirl]

As for malls, I've always thought they were pretty germy on par with any large enclosed space of lots of people touching stuff...so it's always a place to wash hands a bunch of times. But it's also a high-energy place because of that traffic so I don't think I'd go until the all-clear. I don't go to malls a lot in non-pandemic times but when I do it's actually for that energy more so than for the actual shopping. It's for the change of pace, air conditioning in summer, seeing new faces, grabbing an ice cream and coffee and just walking around, etc.

[chillii]

Well here they're trying really hard to track any cases that pop up , right through. So if one does pop up in a factory or shop or somewhere , they test and test until they get them all , and track it back to any other contact ,or try too. So nope , none from supermarkets , pretty amazing eh.

Edited May 24, 2020 by chillii

[CaliforniaGirl]

14 minutes ago, chillii said:

Well here they're trying really hard to track any cases that pop up , right through. So if one does pop up in a factory or shop or somewhere , they test and test until they get them all , and track it back to any other contact ,or try too. So nope , none from supermarkets , pretty amazing eh.

No, it's not that it's amazing, the question is, where then did these cases come from?

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

19 minutes ago, chillii said:

Well here they're trying really hard to track any cases that pop up , right through. So if one does pop up in a factory or shop or somewhere , they test and test until they get them all , and track it back to any other contact ,or try too. So nope , none from supermarkets , pretty amazing eh.

Also, since people go to supermarkets and then go home, and they catch 19 from eachother, not "from" supermarkets per we (i.e. like how you might be able to track food poisoning to.a.certain shipment), and then it takes time for 19 to show symptoms - up to 14 days, how are supermarkets being rules out as places of contact? (As opposed to factories or other places where the same people will routinely see one another.)

[Ellener]

I don't know where the cases in our area have come from, and there's been relatively few, but all the supermarket staff in my local stores have stayed well, I haven't heard of a single case of them getting sick. And they held society together that first few days when no one knew what was going to happen...and always had a cheerful word for me all that time after Harvey flooding, so I have a lot of respect for them all💖 

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I don't know where the cases in our area have come from, and there's been relatively few, but all the supermarket staff in my local stores have stayed well, I haven't heard of a single case of them getting sick. And they held society together that first few days when no one knew what was going to happen...and always had a cheerful word for me all that time after Harvey flooding, so I have a lot of respect for them all💖 

Ours seem well too at my regular supermarket. Like you, I don't know exactly where all our cases have come from so I'm wondering how people find this out...just curious. In my town we've been lucky, comparatively few cases although we're not a huge town. the "big" city near us hasn't fared as well.

Grocery stores doing well is a wonderful sign. Here at least they be all been careful from the beginning with distancing and masks and it shows. 

[preraph]

People broke loose here about three weeks ago now and two weeks later, Dallas had its highest death numbers yet.  I keep hoping the summer heat will dissipate it.  

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

People broke loose here about three weeks ago now and two weeks later, Dallas had its highest death numbers yet.  I keep hoping the summer heat will dissipate it.  

I hope so. 💙

[FMW]

In late March our local media had stories of one grocery store employee that tested positive and they gave the name of the grocery chain and the location to alert anyone who might have been to that store.  But since then I haven't heard any more being identified.  Of course that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.  

[Ellener]

3 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

don't know exactly where all our cases have come from so I'm wondering how people find this out...just curious.

I don't think it's possible to know exactly, there are mapping programs to alert people that someone they were with has reported testing positive after being in contact with them, but a virus can be picked up so many places and so randomly I imagine there's no way to pinpoint the source in most cases.

This preliminary Chinese report on studying the environments where Covid contamination occurred is from medRxiv:

'Case reports were extracted from the local Municipal Health Commissions of 320 prefectural cities (municipalities) in China, not including Hubei province, between 4 January and 11 February 2020. We identified all outbreaks involving three or more cases and reviewed the major characteristics of the enclosed spaces in which the outbreaks were reported and associated indoor environmental issues. Results: Three hundred and eighteen outbreaks with three or more cases were identified, involving 1245 confirmed cases in 120 prefectural cities. We divided the venues in which the outbreaks occurred into six categories: homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous. Among the identified outbreaks, 53.8% involved three cases, 26.4% involved four cases, and only 1.6% involved ten or more cases. Home outbreaks were the dominant category (254 of 318 outbreaks; 79.9%), followed by transport (108; 34.0%; note that many outbreaks involved more than one venue category). Most home outbreaks involved three to five cases. We identified only a single outbreak in an outdoor environment, which involved two cases. Conclusions: All identified outbreaks of three or more cases occurred in an indoor environment, which confirms that sharing indoor space is a major SARS-CoV-2 infection risk.'

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Ellener
spelling

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I don't think it's possible to know exactly, there are mapping programs to alert people that someone they were with has reported testing positive after beng in contact with them, but a virus can be picked up so many places and so randomly I imagine there's no way to pinpoint the source in most cases.

This preliminary Chinese report on studying the environments where Covid contamination occurred is from medRxiv:

'Case reports were extracted from the local Municipal Health Commissions of 320 prefectural cities (municipalities) in China, not including Hubei province, between 4 January and 11 February 2020. We identified all outbreaks involving three or more cases and reviewed the major characteristics of the enclosed spaces in which the outbreaks were reported and associated indoor environmental issues. Results: Three hundred and eighteen outbreaks with three or more cases were identified, involving 1245 confirmed cases in 120 prefectural cities. We divided the venues in which the outbreaks occurred into six categories: homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and miscellaneous. Among the identified outbreaks, 53.8% involved three cases, 26.4% involved four cases, and only 1.6% involved ten or more cases. Home outbreaks were the dominant category (254 of 318 outbreaks; 79.9%), followed by transport (108; 34.0%; note that many outbreaks involved more than one venue category). Most home outbreaks involved three to five cases. We identified only a single outbreak in an outdoor environment, which involved two cases. Conclusions: All identified outbreaks of three or more cases occurred in an indoor environment, which confirms that sharing indoor space is a major SARS-CoV-2 infection risk.'

 

 

This is interesting, thank you! What I'm saying, though, is...in the home outbreaks...they got it from somewhere...the virus didn't spontaneously erupt within the home... You know? I do get that by the larger numbers it's home outbreaks because once brought hime, or course it's really likely to spread inside a home, but it's contracted somewhere. Anyway, the only reason it came to mind is that a poster above said he's sure not one case in his city originated from a grocery store and I was wondering how that was determined. But maybe it just can't really be determined in a lot of cases. I mean if I were to get it from someone in Stater Bros. today and didn't show symptoms until next week, and meanwhile had gone to a few other places, there would be no way to trace it to another Stater Bros. shopper a week ago unless that person was sympromatic, plus symptomatic enough to warrant a test, which then came out positive and that person upon questioning remembered ducking into Stater for 3 seconds for gum...so...

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

This is interesting, thank you! What I'm saying, though, is...in the home outbreaks...they got it from somewhere...the virus didn't spontaneously erupt within the home... You know? I do get that by the larger numbers it's home outbreaks because once brought hime, or course it's really likely to spread inside a home, but it's contracted somewhere. Anyway, the only reason it came to mind is that a poster above said he's sure not one case in his city originated from a grocery store and I was wondering how that was determined. But maybe it just can't really be determined in a lot of cases. I mean if I were to get it from someone in Stater Bros. today and didn't show symptoms until next week, and meanwhile had gone to a few other places, there would be no way to trace it to another Stater Bros. shopper a week ago unless that person was sympromatic, plus symptomatic enough to warrant a test, which then came out positive and that person upon questioning remembered ducking into Stater for 3 seconds for gum...so...

I'm not medically trained myself, my sister was an infection control specialist for some years so it's a topic we've discussed over the years and she taught me some about it, this is my way of understanding/explaining it: viruses seem to live in moist environments like mucus membranes and in some people they never take hold long enough to multiply and cause disease- which is the body's response to destroy them. What we are calling 'asymptomatic' now we all talk in the language of medical experts ( ! ) is someone in that window where they have had contact with a source of infection, droplets from a person's cough or sneeze, and their body reacts enough to produce antibodies to destroy the infection but not so much that they have developed any noticeable symptoms.

So no, 'the virus didn't spontaneously erupt within the home...'- it's a never-ending chain of events, viruses passing from survival environment to environment, some of where they thrive and multiply. If they can do that in enough quantity first it's one sick person, then a sick household, then a community etc etc. But equally- at any point that chain of events can stop.

Infection control is basically influencing as many outcomes as possible to break the chain of surviving viruses going from survival environment to environment!

[LivingWaterPlease]

I've been living normally throughout the lockdown except for the first two weeks I was washing my hands after entering every public building (post office grocery store, etc.) whereas i usually wash my hands as soon as I get home from shopping. After that I've been out and about shopping and living as normal. Having lived all over the US and been to schools in different areas I have friend on all borders of the USA and in middle America. No one I know has gotten the virus and no one I know knows anyone who has. We have been very communicative about this.

I'm not saying I don't believe anyone has gotten it. It's just that we all haven't seen it. Two of my close friends own multiple nursing homes. One of those friend's homes are in CA. They haven't had one case of the virus. However, they are meticulous and own very nice nursing homes.

Most of my friends are very health conscious but have not been concerned about getting the virus, as I have not been, either. I believe my 92 year old mother had it at the end of 2019. If so, she would be the only person I know who has had it. 

Over the past several weeks I've had visitors in my home and my visitors have also had visitors in their homes and associated with friends. None of us have gotten it or been afraid of getting it. Not because we are arrogant but because we are practicing very health conscious lives and have no underlying health issues. If we did, we would be isolating.

Here, although store employees are wearing masks almost no customers are.  They also are not social distancing . Earlier during the lockdown stores were careful here to have people distance when lined up to enter the stores, post office, etc. But as soon as the people got inside they behaved normally.

I do know some people here who consider themselves to be at risk and they are not going to the stores and public places. IMO, they're wise to be cautious. 

We've been off lockdown now for a couple weeks and there are almost no new cases and the deaths that have occurred have been with the elderly with comorbidities. I have watched many videos with physician saying that they are being pressured to attribute deaths of any sort to coronavirus if symptoms are present that could be related to coronavirus even if there was no positive test for the virus. So, I don't trust that all the so-called deaths from the virus are actually so.

I realize there are hot spots where folks are really having problems. Where I live we have been unscathed with the virus but tragically many have lost their businesses and are suffering financially. I understand there are a lot of cases of domestic violence and child molestations spiking. The way I know this is that I know physicians who have reported they're seeing these problems in their practices.

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by LivingWaterPlease

[chillii]

5 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

No, it's not that it's amazing, the question is, where then did these cases come from?

 

What do you think l'm saying , that's what they try to find out and it works we've been on mostly zero for wks. One Macdonalds driver was found few weeks back they closed 14 outlets found 20 odd new cases connected, been good since. Cross it all. They've tracked backward every new case here in the last mth . Can't getem all but they're trying.

Edited May 25, 2020 by chillii

[CaliforniaGirl]

16 minutes ago, chillii said:

What do you think l'm saying , that's what they try to find out and it works we've been on mostly zero for wks. One Macdonalds driver was found few weeks back they closed 14 outlets found 20 odd new cases connected, been good since. Cross it all. They've tracked backward every new case here in the last mth . Can't getem all but they're trying.

What I'm saying is: you can get it from someone patronizing McDonald's. It doesn't have to be an employee. Same, or course, with grocery stores, as was your example.

I'm wondering how your city knows none of its cases was contracted in a store...also where that data came from...I don't think we have that data on my city site...there is a specific section for 19 updates and there is no info on categories of places like that. We are a smaller town. I don't know if that's why.

I just thought it was interesting that you guys have something like that and was wondering how your city was able to hone things down that way, i.e., exactly where one patient might have gotten it, since you can get it from anyone near you, not just employees, and since by the time you come down with symptoms you might be 14 days and any number of location visits away from the original contact, who might never get DX so your and his or her place of contact couldn't be matched up anyway. Not everyone in the U.S. is tested so I have to think there are many such cases. Your saying there was not one 19 case obtained at a grocery store just seemed so specific. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[QuietRiot]

17 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

There are too many people in the US with the attitude of "tough s*** for anyone who is at risk (whether through their own doing or not) and feel like a little population cleansing would be a good thing to cull out people who were burdens on society and the healthcare system before this anyway."  I'm betting the US will return to pretty much normal fairly soon, malls included.  People have short attention spans and many don't give a crap about anyone else but themselves and once things start really opening up, the majority will throw everything out the window because for them, it's not much of a threat (so they think now). 

Those at risk will have to adapt.  I have a fairly large network of 30 or so friends and family now who are keeping each other informed about places to avoid.  If an establishment isn't at least requiring masks, we don't patronize them even through delivery service. 

 

Well, some will think it's basically "Survival of the fittest" at this point.

[QuietRiot]

5 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

 

Over the past several weeks I've had visitors in my home and my visitors have also had visitors in their homes and associated with friends. None of us have gotten it or been afraid of getting it. Not because we are arrogant but because we are practicing very health conscious lives and have no underlying health issues. If we did, we would be isolating.

 

 

You've had visitors in and out of your home? I hope you were all at least wearing masks.