Big shopping malls re-opening

[elaine567]

11 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

No, it's not that it's amazing, the question is, where then did these cases come from?

 I have heard a few people say about old folk with the  virus, she kept herself isolated and only went to the supermarket once a week, so no idea where it came from?
Duh!.  

[Fletch Lives]

JC Penny, an anchor store in malls across America, just filed for bankruptcy

I think there will be a lot of abandoned stores and restaurants soon.

[Redhead14]

3 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

Well, some will think it's basically "Survival of the fittest" at this point.

F them.  That's  a bullsh*t lazy, selfish, dissociated response to something that may eventually impact them later or their family members at some point down the road and then they will be bitching that "we" should have done more. 

[Ellener]

There is no such thing as zero risk and living our lives to the full on this planet.

So we minimise risks and make 'informed' decisions to try to keep ourselves safe.

We're all still ploughing through the available information to decide what is best right now, based on the level of outbreak where we are and our circumstances.

When the HIV pandemic first began, some people were angry and afraid, reactive and prejudiced, then as more knowledge became available people calmed down, adapted. We have never wiped out that infection just learned to live with it, and vulnerable people have been adversely affected numerous times over the 40 years since but also medical science learned much of what is helping us now.

 

[Fletch Lives]

Well, basically all this stay home stuff does is flatten the curve so hospitals don't get overwhelmed (this is the crucial part). Unless you are lucky enough to not get the virus until a vaccine is available......... I think a large number of people have a good chance of catching the virus. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

11 minutes ago, Fletch Lives said:

Well, basically all this stay home stuff does is flatten the curve so hospitals don't get overwhelmed (this is the crucial part). Unless you are lucky enough to not get the virus until a vaccine is available......... I think a large number of people have a good chance of catching the virus. 

Yes, and that's what the intention always has been, AFAIK. 💖

[CaliforniaGirl]

36 minutes ago, Ellener said:

There is no such thing as zero risk and living our lives to the full on this planet.

So we minimise risks and make 'informed' decisions to try to keep ourselves safe.

We're all still ploughing through the available information to decide what is best right now, based on the level of outbreak where we are and our circumstances.

When the HIV pandemic first began, some people were angry and afraid, reactive and prejudiced, then as more knowledge became available people calmed down, adapted. We have never wiped out that infection just learned to live with it, and vulnerable people have been adversely affected numerous times over the 40 years since but also medical science learned much of what is helping us now.

 

People because much more careful which is what I see people doing now.

Only the truly ignorant kept (and keep) having unprotected sex in the face of HIV risk, for example. 

[Redhead14]

42 minutes ago, Ellener said:

There is no such thing as zero risk and living our lives to the full on this planet.

So we minimise risks and make 'informed' decisions to try to keep ourselves safe.

We're all still ploughing through the available information to decide what is best right now, based on the level of outbreak where we are and our circumstances.

When the HIV pandemic first began, some people were angry and afraid, reactive and prejudiced, then as more knowledge became available people calmed down, adapted. We have never wiped out that infection just learned to live with it, and vulnerable people have been adversely affected numerous times over the 40 years since but also medical science learned much of what is helping us now.

 

People who have the attitude of "survival of the fittest" aren't trying to be pragmatic.  They just plain being selfish because they simply don't want to be bothered with making any changes at all even at the most minimal level of effort which is just to wear a mask and keep socially distanced as best they can.  I'm fine with opening things up.  But taking a tiny bit of effort at least isn't asking for much.  Maybe a few more people can be saved or avoid having to contract it.  They just can't be bothered and are OK with standing by and watching other people die.  The fact is that the virus could mutate into something even more deadly just as easily as it could mutate "down".  I say try something at least.

Yesterday, we took a drive just for something to do.  We did not stop anywhere.  But, there were hundreds of people on an Applachian Trail that crossed the road we were on and the signs said it was closed.  They just blew it off entirely.  No masks. 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Redhead14

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Only the truly ignorant kept (and keep) having unprotected sex in the face of HIV risk, for example. 

What about the millions of people worldwide who are encouraged not to have protected sex as part of their religion? I think it's complicated. Culturally and personally.

 

[QuietRiot]

5 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

People because much more careful which is what I see people doing now.

Only the truly ignorant kept (and keep) having unprotected sex in the face of HIV risk, for example. 

Yep, there's a well known, very size-able retirement community that is known for its STI spread due to lack of use of condoms. "I'm old, so I can't have kids, nor get women pregnant" but they don't account for the STI's.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Redhead14 said:

I say try something at least.

I agree, but there isn't a consensus on what that might be...I mean the thread is about shopping malls which presumably the world can live without but people don't want to.

 

[sothereiwas]

2 minutes ago, Ellener said:

I mean the thread is about shopping malls which presumably the world can live without but people don't want to.

They're a pestilence in my opinion. 

[QuietRiot]

Just now, sothereiwas said:

They're a pestilence in my opinion. 

TO quote Ryan from The Office, "America is one big mall!"

[FMW]

My take, obviously just from my own experience and where I live, is that some people are questioning whether everything we've done so far has (1) really been the best way to handle the situation and (2) feasible going forward.  

Sure, some people are selfish jerks, but I don't think that's the majority. I think the economic meltdown with no end in sight and not seeing friends or family for months now has people being open to something other than the the lockdown that's been in place.  

Those more vulnerable to viruses in general will unfortunately have to stay more isolated and be more careful.  But that vulnerable population is just as affected by the economic crash as the rest of us.  Decisions have to be made based on broader considerations.  

There of course is no defense for gathering in large groups with no masks and no social distancing.

As for shopping malls specifically, I think part of the consideration being made is for the overall economic impact.  Sure, we can live without malls, but if everything stays shut down for very long, the economic impact will be irreversible and they won't be coming back.  While some, including me, wouldn't really be bothered by that, their loss would have a farther reaching effect.  There are bigger picture considerations.    

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by FMW

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Redhead14 said:

there were hundreds of people on an Applachian Trail that crossed the road we were on and the signs said it was closed.  They just blew it off entirely.  No masks. 

I personally don't see the attraction of walking alongside hundreds of others anyway, but I will say the preliminary studies are indicating that the Covid-19 virus is primarily transmitted in indoor environments.

If people are going to be in groups it does seem safer to do it outdoors, and it's easier to not touch objects and surfaces.

[sothereiwas]

8 minutes ago, Ellener said:

If people are going to be in groups it does seem safer to do it outdoors, and it's easier to not touch objects and surfaces.

Plenty of room to spread out too, ideally. Way better than a mall. 

[schlumpy]

Any Canadian present that know the Edmonton Mall is open.

That was one of the best shopping Malls I have ever been to. It's easily beats Mall of America hands down.

[sothereiwas]

I have to admit I always liked mall of asia but it's semi-open air and at the time I was mostly there for the girl watching. 

[Eternal Sunshine]

I miss the buzz of events in real life (be it shopping or concerts, galleries etc). Streaming online is just not the same.

I also wonder about supermarket staff. I frequent a large local supermarket and know most of the staff. Not one got sick. They don't wear masks, they are close to 100s of people on daily basis since the pandemic started. I have observed them standing and talking to the shoppers at less than 1.5m. If the virus is that contagious I wonder why none got sick.

[nospam99]

Eternal Sunshine said ''If the virus is that contagious I wonder why none got sick.''

There is a 'logical proof' (NOT the same thing as a 'scientific proof' that so many LS posters are asserting the existence of) that goes something like

1) If A Then B
2) Not B
3) Therefore Not A

I don't remember what a logical construct of that form is called. Anyone?

Identifying Assertions A and B is 'left as an exercise for the reader'. (Yes, I taught college for the better part of a decade. However, while I did TAKE Discrete Mathematics, I never taught it.)

Edited May 25, 2020 by nospam99

[Ellener]

6 hours ago, Eternal Sunshine said:

If the virus is that contagious I wonder why none got sick.

I've thought the same, but of course it could be any reason. Or a mix of various reasons. I don't think enough is known to draw conclusions yet.

[sothereiwas]

How many in the area are sick? Here we have a ton of delivery, clerk, etc jobs and just a few got sick, mostly associated with the local VA, and mostly in the beginning before  travel around the metropolitan (such as we have) area was cautioned against. Have to have it to give it, as it were. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 hours ago, Ellener said:

I agree, but there isn't a consensus on what that might be...I mean the thread is about shopping malls which presumably the world can live without but people don't want to.

 

Which is why we all had to be treated like infants with exact prohibitions, at which time we became screamy road blocking babies with guns so now oh well, what happens happens, and godspeed, America.

[gamon]

On 5/24/2020 at 1:14 PM, Redhead14 said:

There are too many people in the US with the attitude of "tough s*** for anyone who is at risk (whether through their own doing or not) and feel like a little population cleansing would be a good thing to cull out people who were burdens on society and the healthcare system before this anyway."  I'm betting the US will return to pretty much normal fairly soon, malls included.  People have short attention spans and many don't give a crap about anyone else but themselves and once things start really opening up, the majority will throw everything out the window because for them, it's not much of a threat (so they think now). 

Those at risk will have to adapt.  I have a fairly large network of 30 or so friends and family now who are keeping each other informed about places to avoid.  If an establishment isn't at least requiring masks, we don't patronize them even through delivery service. 

 

^^This is precisely what is going to happen. My only question is what will happen to the healthcare system when hospitals start filling up again with the inevitable skyrocketing of cases.

 

 

[carhill]

11 hours ago, Fletch Lives said:

JC Penny, an anchor store in malls across America, just filed for bankruptcy

I think there will be a lot of abandoned stores and restaurants soon.

Lingerie retailer Victoria's Secret, most of their stores being in malls, is closing all of their stores. I believe they'll still operate an online portal. Mall retailers whose success depends on bodies in space, volume, will have problems with social distancing orders. Restaurants will be especially affected. Business is business, if the numbers don't add up, eject. People aren't going to bankrupt themselves or destroy their shareholder value to hang on to vestiges of the past. Brave new frontier. Those of us who've moved beyond consumerism won't really be affected much but active consumers are going to be markedly affected, I've already seen it in the few times I've been to town, people lined up six feet apart to get into Home Depot and Starbucks, to name a few. No way will I play that game. Fortunately where I retired to there are no malls, and really no virus, so life goes on pretty much as before, main difference is it's been harder to schedule a routine medical or optical appointment. That's about it.