Needing some strength/clarity

[Spainglish]

You're doing well.  I know it's hard, but if you continue to focus on what you  deserve it will start to get easier.
He's also going to start realizing that he can't play games any more and he's either going to come through with all his promises or he's going to set you free. 
Either way, you will finally have closure.  Hang in there.  🤗

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

Overall, I just wish he was more realistic. He convinces himself that he doesn’t need to grieve the end of his marriage. He has wild dreams for us that are great to talk about but he states them as promises. Ex: “we’re going on a family trip in December.” When I told him that he can’t promise things like that when he’s not even divorced, especially with kids involved, he says he’s not doing anything wrong by daydreaming and setting goals. I think it’s childish and reflects that he has no grasp on reality. Maybe I’m just more aware that those kinds of statements are nuts. 

I don’t think anybody is travelling anywhere in December with Covid this year, but that’s another matter entirely.

I agree with you. My dad was like this after my mom passed away. He couldn’t deal with reality so he created his own happy existence... He wasn’t going to waste time grieving the loss of his wife, he kept telling us to “think positive” and “move on...” The thing was, he would either cry or walk out of the room whenever anyone mentioned her name - so he had the feelings, he just couldn’t allow himself to feel them. I’m not sold that your MM has the feelings... he just seems to do whatever he wants and live in his own reality... Because let’s face it, even if this wasn’t complicated by an extramarital affair it’s totally ridiculous to think about doing a family trip with a new woman six months after he left/divorced their mother. That’s delusional, and it’s unfair to expect the children to accept a new person so soon after their parent’s divorce. He thinks of nobody but himself, and he does seem to have this delusional belief, like he also expects you to move into her home and sleep in her bedroom, and all will be well. It doesn’t work that way... To me, it’s just another HUGE red flag. As you say, these kinds of statements are nuts. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by BaileyB

[S2B]

Best way to gain more power in this relationship ship is to NOT take his calls right now. Stay strong!

the one who cares the least has the most power.

its normal for the MM to chase when his OW pulls back...he wants you back in your usual position. Hold out knowing you deserve so much better. 

[Husbandssecret]

8 hours ago, S2B said:

Best way to gain more power in this relationship ship is to NOT take his calls right now. Stay strong!

the one who cares the least has the most power.

its normal for the MM to chase when his OW pulls back...he wants you back in your usual position. Hold out knowing you deserve so much better. 

I usually agree that talking to him isn’t helpful, but last night it was really helpful to answer his call. He’s tried to recreate my memories before and I always just thought maybe I remembered things incorrectly. This might sound dumb but I was actively aware that he was gaslighting me last night.

I remember so specifically the events around the death of my father down to what I was doing when I found out. He tried to tell me the time of day that it happened and where I was when it happened (because when I found out he passed I was with MM). He was so adamant that I remembered it wrong. I stood by my memory of those events and told him I’m done for good. When I said that, he backed down and apologized.

I was dumbfounded. There’s many times he has told me adamantly that I was remembering something wrong and then would convince me that his version was correct. I’m now seeing him for who he is and I can’t unsee it. Last night was despicable. To try to eff with someone’s head to the point to get them to remember your version of such an important and vivid memory?!!? What was he trying to do at that point? It makes me think this is pathological. He has no self awareness that he’s doing this. He’s manipulated everyone in his life so much that it now comes naturally. Holy smokes am I dodging a bullet. I can’t believe it took me this long to realize that he’s this person. I’ve always thought he’s a good person, who was caught in a bad situation. Now I know he’s a self absorbed manipulative narcissist. I’m so angry right now. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Husbandssecret

[BaileyB]

“There is no force equal to a woman determined to rise.”

You have subjugated yourself to this man too many times - you have let him determine your worth, your future, your very sanity. You have ignored your own instinct, put your own needs aside - again and again... and for what? 

For a man who would manipulate you and use you for his own purpose. No longer. 

This man doesn’t know better than you. He is not more important or more worthy than you. 

Today, you take back your power. You tell this man - no more. And you begin to move forward to a healthier and happier future... It is a good day. Well done.

[Allupinnit]

@Husbandssecret - that is just FOUL.  

[heartwhole2]

And if he'll gaslight you when there's nothing in it for him -- what does he gain by convincing you you're wrong about how you learned of your father's death? -- then imagine how much he'll gaslight you when it benefits him in some way. And even if he was 100% confident that he was right about the details, why wouldn't his empathy for you concerning the loss of your father make him think, "Well that's not how I remember it, but no big deal, she was suffering a huge shock and loss"? This guy is bad news.

[Husbandssecret]

4 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

And if he'll gaslight you when there's nothing in it for him -- what does he gain by convincing you you're wrong about how you learned of your father's death? -- then imagine how much he'll gaslight you when it benefits him in some way. And even if he was 100% confident that he was right about the details, why wouldn't his empathy for you concerning the loss of your father make him think, "Well that's not how I remember it, but no big deal, she was suffering a huge shock and loss"? This guy is bad news.

EXACTLY!! It’s like I’ve known all along that he’s been gaslighting me, but I know without a doubt that I have that memory down correctly, I even have flight information to prove it. He did exactly what he’s done many times-recreate the past to make him sound like he’s a hero or he’s been there for me when he hasn’t. He’s even tried to convince me he made homemade chicken noodle soup for me once when I was really sick. This dude SUCKS. Not sure why it took so long to get there. I can’t even wrap my head around this. All the times I’ve mistrusted myself (which is a red flag too) because he’s made me think I have a poor memory. It’s absolutely crazy!!! 

[heartwhole2]

Your right to make decisions based on reality is sacred. This guy really does suck. He's obviously a huge manipulator with no real empathy for others and no regard for the truth.

[S2B]

On 5/31/2020 at 12:23 PM, Husbandssecret said:

 

Overall, I just wish he was more realistic. He convinces himself that he doesn’t need to grieve the end of his marriage.
 

I think it’s childish and reflects that he has no grasp on reality. 

let’s look at these statements the way you should be looking at them...

Overall, I just wish YOU were being more realistic. 
 

you can’t change him - you can only change YOURSELF, your own reactions and no reactions does have a change on the outcome.

 

if you want things to change then YOU change how YOU are participating.

him? Looks like he will always lack empathy, be selfish, and not a guy to buy you gifts. 
 

think about that... that’s what you really want? You want a guy that you have to spoon feed - in order for him to understand things from YOUR perspective? You want a guy who doesn’t bring you a present? 
 

I would have a hard time with a guy like him. If you want it to change - start telling him exactly what would make you happy.. and IF he isn’t capable of being that guy - don’t make effort to settle for so little!

 

[Husbandssecret]

3 hours ago, S2B said:

let’s look at these statements the way you should be looking at them...

Overall, I just wish YOU were being more realistic. 
 

you can’t change him - you can only change YOURSELF, your own reactions and no reactions does have a change on the outcome.

 

if you want things to change then YOU change how YOU are participating.

him? Looks like he will always lack empathy, be selfish, and not a guy to buy you gifts. 
 

think about that... that’s what you really want? You want a guy that you have to spoon feed - in order for him to understand things from YOUR perspective? You want a guy who doesn’t bring you a present? 
 

I would have a hard time with a guy like him. If you want it to change - start telling him exactly what would make you happy.. and IF he isn’t capable of being that guy - don’t make effort to settle for so little!

 

Yes exactly!! I started seeing things that way and stopped playing “victim” to him. Started taking control over my life!! I’m 4 days NC. It’s been tough, but not as tough as I thought it would be. I held myself accountable and finally spilled this secret affair to my sister. I’m starting the road to recovery!! There’s only one way now-FORWARD!!! 

[S2B]

Stay strong! What did your sister say when you told her about the MM?

[Husbandssecret]

8 hours ago, S2B said:

Stay strong! What did your sister say when you told her about the MM?

She has been very supportive but she was the closest person to me prior to my MM. The fact that I kept this from her has definitely made her feel a sense of loss. She feels betrayed that I hid such a huge part of my life from her. She’s also felt sad and angry that I was so self destructive. I feel terrible because I hadn’t realized how far gone I was. I was always putting him first. I was like an addict. Waiting for my next “hit” (seeing him) and doing all I could to keep it a secret. I hadn’t realized how much it had affected me and my other relationships that previously were the most important to me. I had put my relationship with him above all else. I know that it’s going to take time to build up trust with my sister but I also know coming clean will hold me accountable. It will give me the support I need so I don’t fall back into it with MM. 

[BaileyB]

That’s a huge step forward. To disclose this information to your sister such that she now knows all about the affair... that is a big step, you are making yourself accountable and she will help to keep you on the right track.

For me, it wasn’t as much the fact that you kept this secret as it was all the times you would say “I have this feeling that this is not good, but he tells me to ignore it, so - I’m going to ignore my own instinct and do as he says...” That was upsetting for me. He would guilt you and manipulate you, and you would say - “have I done enough? He says I need to be more understanding, more compassionate, to give more...“ We would say - “what about you?” And your answer was always... “I know, BUT he needs, he said...” 

I hope you learn not to lose yourself like this again. Relationships are about compromise, but when one person is giving and the other person is taking... that’s not a compromise, that’s an unhealthy situation.

Edited June 4, 2020 by BaileyB