Needing some strength/clarity

[Spainglish]

33 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

I’m feeling very vulnerable right now. I’m also feeling bad for him because I don’t want him to feel abandoned or hurt by me.

Oh, no, no, no!  You sound just like me when I was in it.  Don't feel bad about how he's feeling. He's a grown man and I guarantee he will move on within weeks if not days after you're gone.  If you're going to feel bad, feel bad about not demanding more for yourself.  Feel bad about always being in the shadows.  Feel bad about allowing yourself to be second best. Feel bad about letting him manipulate you.  Feel bad about not slamming the door hard enough on his way out!   

You deserve better and you know it.  

[simpycurious]

1 hour ago, Spainglish said:

Oh, no, no, no!  You sound just like me when I was in it.  Don't feel bad about how he's feeling. He's a grown man and I guarantee he will move on within weeks if not days after you're gone.  If you're going to feel bad, feel bad about not demanding more for yourself.  Feel bad about always being in the shadows.  Feel bad about allowing yourself to be second best. Feel bad about letting him manipulate you.  Feel bad about not slamming the door hard enough on his way out!   

You deserve better and you know it.  

Exactly^^^, don't let anyone ever convince you that being SECOND STRING is OK..........Again,  "husbandsscret" just let the name soak in.....

[RebeccaR]

This might be a good time to reread LilKatKat’s threads

[Husbandssecret]

3 hours ago, S2B said:

Someone who loves you wouldn’t put you down and shortchange YOUR needs/wants long term. 
don’t worry about him - worry about taking care of yourself!

cheating men love to prey upon women who expect less than they should. They sniff out women who will settle for a little. He knew that. He wanted that.

and good on you for realizing that he is getting double helpings while you get 1/4 of what you should get. There is nothing right about what he said when he knows he gets more than his share!

he isn’t a good man. You should be proud you ended it. You do deserve so much better! Please be kind to yourself.

Thank you for the encouragement and reminder that his feelings are not my responsibility! He’s a grown man who can make the decision to do what needs to be done to move our relationship forward. I need to hold him accountable and do what is best for myself. 

[JimmyNorth]

On 5/25/2020 at 2:37 AM, elaine567 said:

I also think that people who get themselves in a "torn between two lovers" situation, stay in that situation, because neither "lover" is actually "good enough" for them to choose one over the other.
They thus continue with both, one provides one level of needs , the other provides a different level of needs.

Bingo!!

[JimmyNorth]

9 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

Thank you for the encouragement and reminder that his feelings are not my responsibility! He’s a grown man who can make the decision to do what needs to be done to move our relationship forward. I need to hold him accountable and do what is best for myself. 

Have you tried dating other men while you guys were broken up? Maybe that would help as seeing some single available men may be more promising.

[Husbandssecret]

12 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

Have you tried dating other men while you guys were broken up? Maybe that would help as seeing some single available men may be more promising.

I have and it’s definitely gotten me thinking/feeling more empowered to stay away from him. I had a very positive experience dating someone who was single and available during the last time we broke it off and it made it more clear how poorly he has been treating me. It also amplified his selfishness. 

He called today and I answered. He asked where we were and I stood by my decision, which felt good. I told him I needed him to have defined boundaries with his BS and the divorce finalized before we could discuss a “we”. He then started talking about how he needs to decide if there is still a “we” because I was “mean and nasty” to him when I ended things. Basically I listed all the times he let me down and said that I didn’t want to add another reason to the list, and that I was taking control over the situation. I told him I had gotten tired of standing by while he decided if/when to give me the relationship I deserve. That’s me being mean and nasty I guess. 

I go back and forth with feeling a sense of anxiety/fear that I ended this and feeling a sense of relief/empowerment. I’m trying to fill up my calendar and had an IC appointment yesterday which was helpful.  

Edited May 29, 2020 by Husbandssecret

[Husbandssecret]

On 5/28/2020 at 12:31 PM, S2B said:

Someone who loves you wouldn’t put you down and shortchange YOUR needs/wants long term. 
don’t worry about him - worry about taking care of yourself!

cheating men love to prey upon women who expect less than they should. They sniff out women who will settle for a little. He knew that. He wanted that.

and good on you for realizing that he is getting double helpings while you get 1/4 of what you should get. There is nothing right about what he said when he knows he gets more than his share!

he isn’t a good man. You should be proud you ended it. You do deserve so much better! Please be kind to yourself.

Thank you! He definitely tries to make it okay that I continue to wait to be treated the way I deserve. He’s made it okay in his mind, almost like he expects me to just go along with it and suck it up. I’m not sure how that’s someone who claims I am the love of his life. 

[JimmyNorth]

2 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

I have and it’s definitely gotten me thinking/feeling more empowered to stay away from him. I had a very positive experience dating someone who was single and available during the last time we broke it off and it made it more clear how poorly he has been treating me. It also amplified his selfishness. 

He called today and I answered. He asked where we were and I stood by my decision, which felt good. I told him I needed him to have defined boundaries with his BS and the divorce finalized before we could discuss a “we”. He then started talking about how he needs to decide if there is still a “we” because I was “mean and nasty” to him when I ended things. Basically I listed all the times he let me down and said that I didn’t want to add another reason to the list, and that I was taking control over the situation. I told him I had gotten tired of standing by while he decided if/when to give me the relationship I deserve. That’s me being mean and nasty I guess. 

I go back and forth with feeling a sense of anxiety/fear that I ended this and feeling a sense of relief/empowerment. I’m trying to fill up my calendar and had an IC appointment yesterday which was helpful.  

Does your MM know you’ve seen other men? That may give him the message that you are moving on.

Showing your strength will empower you. 

[Husbandssecret]

19 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

Does your MM know you’ve seen other men? That may give him the message that you are moving on.

Showing your strength will empower you. 

He doesn’t. I haven’t brought that up because he often has stated he thinks I only want to leave so that I can be with someone else. I need him to know this decision is made solely for myself and not because I want to “date around” or see what else is out there. He concocts this poor me narrative like I’m trying to just go screw around on him instead of seeing this for what it is and the many issues within the relationship. Maybe it doesn’t matter.

[JimmyNorth]

19 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

He doesn’t. I haven’t brought that up because he often has stated he thinks I only want to leave so that I can be with someone else. I need him to know this decision is made solely for myself and not because I want to “date around” or see what else is out there. He concocts this poor me narrative like I’m trying to just go screw around on him instead of seeing this for what it is and the many issues within the relationship. Maybe it doesn’t matter.

He would most likely freak out just like a BS if you told him. Then one of two things would happen..(1) he will straighten up his act and rush for you if he really wants to finally get serious. OR (2) he will just continue his bullsh***t ways and play the whole “woe is me” game, of which you will not fall for.

[Husbandssecret]

He really wants me to be all in or not at all. This in between feeling of we are not together but let me know when you’re divorced stage is causing him stress. I think it’s because he can’t handle being alone and I have a sneaking feeling that he doesn’t want to push the divorce forward unless he for sure knows he has me. If I told him I’d seen someone else, I doubt the divorce would move forward. He would blame me for “cheating” on him. I’m not sure this would be helpful for my healing. It would just make me feel guilty (even though I know I don’t have to). I want him to show his colors. Can he stand on his own 2 feet? Or does he run back to BS and prolong the divorce now that I’ve ended things. 

[JimmyNorth]

5 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

He really wants me to be all in or not at all. This in between feeling of we are not together but let me know when you’re divorced stage is causing him stress. I think it’s because he can’t handle being alone and I have a sneaking feeling that he doesn’t want to push the divorce forward unless he for sure knows he has me. If I told him I’d seen someone else, I doubt the divorce would move forward. He would blame me for “cheating” on him. I’m not sure this would be helpful for my healing. It would just make me feel guilty (even though I know I don’t have to). I want him to show his colors. Can he stand on his own 2 feet? Or does he run back to BS and prolong the divorce now that I’ve ended things. 

Lol, sounds like how I was. Some MM’s are cowards, like I was. I remember having idiotic reasonings that would just end up hurting all parties at the end of it all. 

Your MM needs to decide how he wants to live his life. No more half ass attempts to fulfill his needs. Either he does a nice clean divorce from wife and start something promising with you or he needs to go live his indecisive life without you and further damaging your heart. 

I know how you feel about him knowing about your dating and how it may stall divorce, but you might be surprised. If he is really over his wife, he might have a “holy sh***t” moment and realize that he is losing you too and wake up. 

[Husbandssecret]

26 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

Lol, sounds like how I was. Some MM’s are cowards, like I was. I remember having idiotic reasonings that would just end up hurting all parties at the end of it all. 

Your MM needs to decide how he wants to live his life. No more half ass attempts to fulfill his needs. Either he does a nice clean divorce from wife and start something promising with you or he needs to go live his indecisive life without you and further damaging your heart. 

I know how you feel about him knowing about your dating and how it may stall divorce, but you might be surprised. If he is really over his wife, he might have a “holy sh***t” moment and realize that he is losing you too and wake up. 

Yes agreed!! He needs to stop asking me to hang in there and “prove my love” as he continues to try to figure out what he wants. If it is divorce, great, then move it along already. And if it’s not, then let me move on while he and his BS continue working out the kinks in their relationship. I don’t want to be a part of the triangle anymore. I don’t want to constantly be looking over his shoulder. He needs to be done with her and have well established boundaries with her before I’m willing to attempt to work on us. And even if he does all that, we have a ton of work to do to heal the damage he’s done. I’m not sure he’s cut out for that either. 

[Husbandssecret]

The other day he told me BS came into the house when she dropped off the kids and demanded he give her some potatoes to take home. She then walked to the fridge without really saying anything. She opened the fridge and stared at the wine that was open (we had it the previous night). This story is all according to him. He said she got distant and then left. The weird part of the story was that she still felt entitled enough to his belongings that she basically used him as a grocery store. 

Either she’s nuts, or he hasn’t made it clear where they stand. To me it sounds like she’s not over him. Either way, that story, along with him having dinners at her place, made me realize I don’t want to be in the middle of this as they go back and forth. It’s not as clean and “done” as he’s described. 

Also, sometime last week I flat out asked him if he had sex with BS since the last time he had told me (in the beginning of our affair). He swore up and down he hadn’t. I told him it’d be interesting to hear from BS about their loveless and sexless marriage one day when I met her (as we were daydreaming of our future). He said “well don’t be surprised if she lies to you and says to the contrary, she’s a known liar”. It was such an odd response. Why would someone lie and say they were still having sex? 

Having some distance over the last couple days has left me time to think and replay some of these conversations where I should have been more concerned instead of just blindly accepting that he was “telling me the truth”. He claims everyone else is lying or has negative intentions, when he’s demonstrated to me that he can and does lie. 

[JimmyNorth]

21 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

The other day he told me BS came into the house when she dropped off the kids and demanded he give her some potatoes to take home. She then walked to the fridge without really saying anything. She opened the fridge and stared at the wine that was open (we had it the previous night). This story is all according to him. He said she got distant and then left. The weird part of the story was that she still felt entitled enough to his belongings that she basically used him as a grocery store. 

Either she’s nuts, or he hasn’t made it clear where they stand. To me it sounds like she’s not over him. Either way, that story, along with him having dinners at her place, made me realize I don’t want to be in the middle of this as they go back and forth. It’s not as clean and “done” as he’s described. 

Also, sometime last week I flat out asked him if he had sex with BS since the last time he had told me (in the beginning of our affair). He swore up and down he hadn’t. I told him it’d be interesting to hear from BS about their loveless and sexless marriage one day when I met her (as we were daydreaming of our future). He said “well don’t be surprised if she lies to you and says to the contrary, she’s a known liar”. It was such an odd response. Why would someone lie and say they were still having sex? 

Having some distance over the last couple days has left me time to think and replay some of these conversations where I should have been more concerned instead of just blindly accepting that he was “telling me the truth”. He claims everyone else is lying or has negative intentions, when he’s demonstrated to me that he can and does lie. 

What happened with the single guy you were dating? I was thinking that he may have been a good option for a real relationship rather than deal with MM’s drama. Maybe you could have gave the single guy a shot and it would have helped you go full NC on MM.

 

[Husbandssecret]

8 minutes ago, JimmyNorth said:

What happened with the single guy you were dating? I was thinking that he may have been a good option for a real relationship rather than deal with MM’s drama. Maybe you could have gave the single guy a shot and it would have helped you go full NC on MM.

 

Nothing bad happened, I just told him I wasn’t ready for a relationship and needed to do some healing from my past relationship. He was very sweet and told me that if I figured it out and found myself ready to let him know. I can pursue him again and try to give him a real chance this time. I didn’t want to drag him along before because I had been still clinging on and waiting for MM and his W to separate. My mind was definitely preoccupied then. It may be good to give him a real chance now so that it can reinforce how manipulative MM is and to help me reach the point of NC with MM. Not a bad idea. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

Does your MM know you’ve seen other men? That may give him the message that you are moving on.

I don’t know that she wants this guy back though... 

I agree with you HS. I think the idea that you are dating would cause a hasty retreat back to his wife. He’s already proven that you are his safety net - he is not going to file until he knows for use that you are there for him, until you prove your love. An ironic statement coming from a man who is making you wait while he decides which woman he wants. So yes, I think the thought of you dating would be very threatening to this man and I would expect him to run home with his tail between his legs...

[Husbandssecret]

7 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I don’t know that she wants this guy back though... 

I agree with you HS. I think the idea that you are dating would cause a hasty retreat back to his wife. He’s already proven that you are his safety net - he is not going to file until he knows for use that you are there for him, until you prove your love. An ironic statement coming from a man who is making you wait while he decides which woman he wants. So yes, I think the thought of you dating would be very threatening to this man and I would expect him to run home with his tail between his legs...

I wouldn’t be surprised if she did. She acts very invested/jealous which makes sense because her husband cheated on her. But someone who isn’t emotionally invested doesn’t get jealous. When I was done with my ex and he started dating someone else I was just glad I wasn’t the one dating him. I didn’t feel an ounce of jealousy or need to know what he was doing because I was done and genuinely didn’t care. She’s still invested. 

As for the idea of me dating, he would definitely play the victim and then make me the bad person saying we didn’t work out because I wanted to be with someone else. He’s already been trying to pin it on me. I’m “mean and nasty” and he’s not sure he can be with someone who can treat him that way. He’s said that multiple times to me. I must not love him anymore. I must want to be with someone else. He can’t take responsibility for the life of him, which is why he ended up with an OW in the first place.

[PhoenixRising8]

1 hour ago, Husbandssecret said:

The other day he told me BS came into the house when she dropped off the kids a

You know, this is a huge red flag for me. SHE moved out of the house?  It isn't generally the norm is it? I seem to recall something about his toothbrush and other personal effects being in the master but you slept in the guest room. Maybe I'm thinking of another thread, if so, sorry for the confusion. He also just turned it around on you that you have no faith in him just when it was all within reach. I'm willing to bet she had gone somewhere with the kids and that's why you were at his drinking wine. My xMM's BS was away for 3 weeks and yeah I was there. Just because you can go to his doesn't mean they're split. Just because he says anything doesn't mean it's true. Read my threads. The first 8 months no way did I think he didn't mean it. Truthfully I still can't wrap my brain around it. He probably did in the moment but when push came to shove, it was far too easy to lead the double life. Why give up anything when you can have everything?  Why choose one when you can have both?

[Husbandssecret]

5 minutes ago, LilKatKat said:

You know, this is a huge red flag for me. SHE moved out of the house?  It isn't generally the norm is it? I seem to recall something about his toothbrush and other personal effects being in the master but you slept in the guest room. Maybe I'm thinking of another thread, if so, sorry for the confusion. He also just turned it around on you that you have no faith in him just when it was all within reach. I'm willing to bet she had gone somewhere with the kids and that's why you were at his drinking wine. My xMM's BS was away for 3 weeks and yeah I was there. Just because you can go to his doesn't mean they're split. Just because he says anything doesn't mean it's true. Read my threads. The first 8 months no way did I think he didn't mean it. Truthfully I still can't wrap my brain around it. He probably did in the moment but when push came to shove, it was far too easy to lead the double life. Why give up anything when you can have everything?  Why choose one when you can have both?

I was reading your posts the other day! The similarities are crazy. Especially with the constant goalpost moving. He was/is so good at that. At one point he told me he could be separated by the end of April and divorced by June. Now he says he thinks he can be divorced by July 15th. Not sure why that date specifically but I knew what was going to happen. His kids bday is the following week so I knew all too well he was likely going to use that as a reason why he couldn’t file July 15th etc. you know the story. 

Yes it’s the same story! When they first “separated” things felt off, I didn’t think she moved out. I know it’s not usual for the woman to move out but she couldn’t afford the house payments so it made more sense for him to take over the house and for her to start over. I hate jumping to conclusions that he’s lying based on the generalizations that the men should move out and all those assumptions.

What was off to me was that he was weird about going in the master bedroom. Since that one event happened, we have been sleeping in the master bedroom (prior to me ending things).

What bothered me most about it was he claimed he has spent the last 4 years sleeping in the guest bedroom but then his stuff was in the master bedroom. I was more thinking about the fact that he was likely lying to me about that setup. There’s a bathroom right next to the guest bedroom so it didn’t make sense to me that he had all his belongings tucked away and at home in the master bedroom. I also snooped a little and his bedside table on the side of the bed he sleeps on has sooo many things on it and in it (books, cuff links, other junk). The master bedroom seemed more lived in than the guest bedroom.

[Allupinnit]

You're right, people who are separated don't still get together for dinner.  You eat with your kids on your night.  Why get divorced then if you're just going to keep up appearances for your kids?  I don't see why it's a stretch for her to check the fridge if they're hanging out.  I agree with @BaileyB - his boundaries are total crap and nobody really knows what the hell is going on.  

This is only the tip of the iceberg of the lies and manipulation you will endure if you continue with this man.  He is emotionally abusive, seriously he sounds like a small child blaming you for his own f*ck ups.  You are going to lose yourself even more.  Please, stop having sex with him - it keeps you bonded and you're not thinking clearly.  You only know the lies you've been suspicious of - you have zero idea what he hasn't told you.

[Allupinnit]

I suspect he told you the fridge story to further pit you against her, in an emotionally manipulative way.  Back in the house, smelling a rat.  Honestly why would he tell you that?  Please run!

[PhoenixRising8]

Did you check out if her stuff was in the other night table, the dressers, the closet?  That's more telling. He could easily say he "moved" back in. I'm amazed how many seemingly credible reasons they can come up with on the spot. 

I was the love of his life, never felt so strongly about anyone before, never the connection blah, blah blah. Funny how like yours he was able to just let you walk away. Let that sink in. As my friend said to me when he came back in January "run, run for your life and never look back". Maybe you'll do a better job than I did. 

[BaileyB]

He does sound like a child. He needs you to hold his hand and offer reassurance while he divorces his wife. And, he has been quite literally throwing a tantrum when you don’t... It would not be attractive to me, at all. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by BaileyB