Needing some strength/clarity

[PhoenixRising8]

1 hour ago, Husbandssecret said:

The other day he told me BS came into the house when she dropped off the kids a

You know, this is a huge red flag for me. SHE moved out of the house?  It isn't generally the norm is it? I seem to recall something about his toothbrush and other personal effects being in the master but you slept in the guest room. Maybe I'm thinking of another thread, if so, sorry for the confusion. He also just turned it around on you that you have no faith in him just when it was all within reach. I'm willing to bet she had gone somewhere with the kids and that's why you were at his drinking wine. My xMM's BS was away for 3 weeks and yeah I was there. Just because you can go to his doesn't mean they're split. Just because he says anything doesn't mean it's true. Read my threads. The first 8 months no way did I think he didn't mean it. Truthfully I still can't wrap my brain around it. He probably did in the moment but when push came to shove, it was far too easy to lead the double life. Why give up anything when you can have everything?  Why choose one when you can have both?

[Husbandssecret]

5 minutes ago, LilKatKat said:

You know, this is a huge red flag for me. SHE moved out of the house?  It isn't generally the norm is it? I seem to recall something about his toothbrush and other personal effects being in the master but you slept in the guest room. Maybe I'm thinking of another thread, if so, sorry for the confusion. He also just turned it around on you that you have no faith in him just when it was all within reach. I'm willing to bet she had gone somewhere with the kids and that's why you were at his drinking wine. My xMM's BS was away for 3 weeks and yeah I was there. Just because you can go to his doesn't mean they're split. Just because he says anything doesn't mean it's true. Read my threads. The first 8 months no way did I think he didn't mean it. Truthfully I still can't wrap my brain around it. He probably did in the moment but when push came to shove, it was far too easy to lead the double life. Why give up anything when you can have everything?  Why choose one when you can have both?

I was reading your posts the other day! The similarities are crazy. Especially with the constant goalpost moving. He was/is so good at that. At one point he told me he could be separated by the end of April and divorced by June. Now he says he thinks he can be divorced by July 15th. Not sure why that date specifically but I knew what was going to happen. His kids bday is the following week so I knew all too well he was likely going to use that as a reason why he couldn’t file July 15th etc. you know the story. 

Yes it’s the same story! When they first “separated” things felt off, I didn’t think she moved out. I know it’s not usual for the woman to move out but she couldn’t afford the house payments so it made more sense for him to take over the house and for her to start over. I hate jumping to conclusions that he’s lying based on the generalizations that the men should move out and all those assumptions.

What was off to me was that he was weird about going in the master bedroom. Since that one event happened, we have been sleeping in the master bedroom (prior to me ending things).

What bothered me most about it was he claimed he has spent the last 4 years sleeping in the guest bedroom but then his stuff was in the master bedroom. I was more thinking about the fact that he was likely lying to me about that setup. There’s a bathroom right next to the guest bedroom so it didn’t make sense to me that he had all his belongings tucked away and at home in the master bedroom. I also snooped a little and his bedside table on the side of the bed he sleeps on has sooo many things on it and in it (books, cuff links, other junk). The master bedroom seemed more lived in than the guest bedroom.

[Allupinnit]

You're right, people who are separated don't still get together for dinner.  You eat with your kids on your night.  Why get divorced then if you're just going to keep up appearances for your kids?  I don't see why it's a stretch for her to check the fridge if they're hanging out.  I agree with @BaileyB - his boundaries are total crap and nobody really knows what the hell is going on.  

This is only the tip of the iceberg of the lies and manipulation you will endure if you continue with this man.  He is emotionally abusive, seriously he sounds like a small child blaming you for his own f*ck ups.  You are going to lose yourself even more.  Please, stop having sex with him - it keeps you bonded and you're not thinking clearly.  You only know the lies you've been suspicious of - you have zero idea what he hasn't told you.

[Allupinnit]

I suspect he told you the fridge story to further pit you against her, in an emotionally manipulative way.  Back in the house, smelling a rat.  Honestly why would he tell you that?  Please run!

[PhoenixRising8]

Did you check out if her stuff was in the other night table, the dressers, the closet?  That's more telling. He could easily say he "moved" back in. I'm amazed how many seemingly credible reasons they can come up with on the spot. 

I was the love of his life, never felt so strongly about anyone before, never the connection blah, blah blah. Funny how like yours he was able to just let you walk away. Let that sink in. As my friend said to me when he came back in January "run, run for your life and never look back". Maybe you'll do a better job than I did. 

[BaileyB]

He does sound like a child. He needs you to hold his hand and offer reassurance while he divorces his wife. And, he has been quite literally throwing a tantrum when you don’t... It would not be attractive to me, at all. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by BaileyB

[JimmyNorth]

10 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

I was reading your posts the other day! The similarities are crazy. Especially with the constant goalpost moving. He was/is so good at that. At one point he told me he could be separated by the end of April and divorced by June. Now he says he thinks he can be divorced by July 15th. Not sure why that date specifically but I knew what was going to happen. His kids bday is the following week so I knew all too well he was likely going to use that as a reason why he couldn’t file July 15th etc. you know the story. 

Yes it’s the same story! When they first “separated” things felt off, I didn’t think she moved out. I know it’s not usual for the woman to move out but she couldn’t afford the house payments so it made more sense for him to take over the house and for her to start over. I hate jumping to conclusions that he’s lying based on the generalizations that the men should move out and all those assumptions.

What was off to me was that he was weird about going in the master bedroom. Since that one event happened, we have been sleeping in the master bedroom (prior to me ending things).

What bothered me most about it was he claimed he has spent the last 4 years sleeping in the guest bedroom but then his stuff was in the master bedroom. I was more thinking about the fact that he was likely lying to me about that setup. There’s a bathroom right next to the guest bedroom so it didn’t make sense to me that he had all his belongings tucked away and at home in the master bedroom. I also snooped a little and his bedside table on the side of the bed he sleeps on has sooo many things on it and in it (books, cuff links, other junk). The master bedroom seemed more lived in than the guest bedroom.

He may be lying to you about his wife because he’s probably scared to lose you. I  agree that it’s weird how some of us MM’s get used to the double life. I ended up getting sick of the work involved with it. 

I remember when I was in that situation. I’ll give it to you straight and unfiltered. I was very into my OW and the sex was very powerful. And boy, She knew how to put me to sleep.....BUT... that did not mean my OW was accepting my procrastination or lagging of divorcing and being with her. It was taking a toll. She HATED feeling like an insurance piece or second choice. I was just so blind at the time.

The difference here is I really wanted my OW and I hated the thought of her losing faith in me, so I had to step up. Your MM is making you feel as if he wants to possibly save his marriage. Your MM needs to wake up before your GONE FOR GOOD!!!

[S2B]

4 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

I was reading your posts the other day! The similarities are crazy. Especially with the constant goalpost moving. He was/is so good at that. At one point he told me he could be separated by the end of April and divorced by June. Now he says he thinks he can be divorced by July 15th. Not sure why that date specifically but I knew what was going to happen. His kids bday is the following week so I knew all too well he was likely going to use that as a reason why he couldn’t file July 15th etc. you know the story. 

Yes it’s the same story! When they first “separated” things felt off, I didn’t think she moved out. I know it’s not usual for the woman to move out but she couldn’t afford the house payments so it made more sense for him to take over the house and for her to start over. I hate jumping to conclusions that he’s lying based on the generalizations that the men should move out and all those assumptions.

What was off to me was that he was weird about going in the master bedroom. Since that one event happened, we have been sleeping in the master bedroom (prior to me ending things).

What bothered me most about it was he claimed he has spent the last 4 years sleeping in the guest bedroom but then his stuff was in the master bedroom. I was more thinking about the fact that he was likely lying to me about that setup. There’s a bathroom right next to the guest bedroom so it didn’t make sense to me that he had all his belongings tucked away and at home in the master bedroom. I also snooped a little and his bedside table on the side of the bed he sleeps on has sooo many things on it and in it (books, cuff links, other junk). The master bedroom seemed more lived in than the guest bedroom.

Yep... that’s because he’s always slept in the Master bedroom and he also has been having sex with his wife.
 

I would think it would be the creepiest feeling ever sleeping in their bedroom. How do you do that without feeling sick... it would definitely make me want to throw up.

 

[JimmyNorth]

6 hours ago, Husbandssecret said:

Yes agreed!! He needs to stop asking me to hang in there and “prove my love”

I was thinking about this statement you said he made. This really reminded me of myself. I actually do remember myself having these thoughts of wanting my OW prove her love for me, which was actually very very ridiculous of me to think that. My OW did EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING I wanted....I mean anything!!!

So why did I have this need to “test her love”??? I think what it comes down to is that I DID NOT BELIEVE that I WAS WORTHY OR DESIRABLE. I remember thinking at times “yeah, she would probably do this for any other guy, I’m NOT that special”. So I almost, kind of in a way, self sabotage the relationship as if to see how much she would take or do in order for me to see if I should keep her.

EVEN WHEN she was treating me like a absolute king (and she still does to this very day) and was always giving in to what ever I desires, I STILL was comfortable living a double life and did not make any move for an actual divorce for over 3 years.

His statement that he made really leads me to believe that he does not have a healthy self esteem. It may seem like he has one, and seems stupid that he may not be as confident, but he may have deep rooted issues about his self worth. Sounds like me.

I have no issues with women wanting me and I’ve been told practically all my adult life by woman that they would love to have me, whether it was for love or for sex. I’m in no way trying to sound shallow, but many women think I’m good looking and I “appear” to be confident...BUT, I have this issue with my own self worth and my self image. It truly boggled my OW mind on how I could even think that way. 

When you get MM like this, it can truly be a chore to be with some guy that has this type of issue.

[Allupinnit]

Right!  On the same mattress!  Are the family photos still up with her in them too?

[Husbandssecret]

16 hours ago, LilKatKat said:

Did you check out if her stuff was in the other night table, the dressers, the closet?  That's more telling. He could easily say he "moved" back in. I'm amazed how many seemingly credible reasons they can come up with on the spot. 

I was the love of his life, never felt so strongly about anyone before, never the connection blah, blah blah. Funny how like yours he was able to just let you walk away. Let that sink in. As my friend said to me when he came back in January "run, run for your life and never look back". Maybe you'll do a better job than I did. 

Her stuff is all gone, the closets are empty and so are the dressers she used. There’s nothing in the other bedside table. He called me and sent me texts a bunch last night begging for me to not give up on him. He used his old “we do things better together” and “we can reach our goal without having to be apart, creating damage”. Like I said, he can’t bear to deal with this on his own. He’s so desperate to have my aid that he can’t see what it’s doing to me or how selfish it is. 

Also funny enough this is his best connection, he’s never felt like this before, I’m the love of his life. You get it 😂

[Husbandssecret]

14 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

Right!  On the same mattress!  Are the family photos still up with her in them too?

Not the same bed or mattress. He got new ones after she moved out. The family pics are still up though. I had nightmares the whole night when sleeping in that room, so it was clearly uncomfortable for me. 

[Allupinnit]

Just now, Husbandssecret said:

Not the same bed or mattress. He got new ones after she moved out. The family pics are still up though. I had nightmares the whole night when sleeping in that room, so it was clearly uncomfortable for me. 

Girl you are so much better than her leftovers!  

[Husbandssecret]

12 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

I was thinking about this statement you said he made. This really reminded me of myself. I actually do remember myself having these thoughts of wanting my OW prove her love for me, which was actually very very ridiculous of me to think that. My OW did EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING I wanted....I mean anything!!!

So why did I have this need to “test her love”??? I think what it comes down to is that I DID NOT BELIEVE that I WAS WORTHY OR DESIRABLE. I remember thinking at times “yeah, she would probably do this for any other guy, I’m NOT that special”. So I almost, kind of in a way, self sabotage the relationship as if to see how much she would take or do in order for me to see if I should keep her.

EVEN WHEN she was treating me like a absolute king (and she still does to this very day) and was always giving in to what ever I desires, I STILL was comfortable living a double life and did not make any move for an actual divorce for over 3 years.

His statement that he made really leads me to believe that he does not have a healthy self esteem. It may seem like he has one, and seems stupid that he may not be as confident, but he may have deep rooted issues about his self worth. Sounds like me.

I have no issues with women wanting me and I’ve been told practically all my adult life by woman that they would love to have me, whether it was for love or for sex. I’m in no way trying to sound shallow, but many women think I’m good looking and I “appear” to be confident...BUT, I have this issue with my own self worth and my self image. It truly boggled my OW mind on how I could even think that way. 

When you get MM like this, it can truly be a chore to be with some guy that has this type of issue.

I think you’re spot on!! He’s someone who shouldn’t be insecure but has deeply rooted insecurities. He will never openly admit it either because he wouldn’t dare admit weakness. I don’t think he intends to, but I agree that this type of person makes a relationship exhausting. It’s constantly feeling like I’m not doing enough while at the same time showering him with love and treating him perfectly. 

[Husbandssecret]

16 hours ago, JimmyNorth said:

He may be lying to you about his wife because he’s probably scared to lose you. I  agree that it’s weird how some of us MM’s get used to the double life. I ended up getting sick of the work involved with it. 

I remember when I was in that situation. I’ll give it to you straight and unfiltered. I was very into my OW and the sex was very powerful. And boy, She knew how to put me to sleep.....BUT... that did not mean my OW was accepting my procrastination or lagging of divorcing and being with her. It was taking a toll. She HATED feeling like an insurance piece or second choice. I was just so blind at the time.

The difference here is I really wanted my OW and I hated the thought of her losing faith in me, so I had to step up. Your MM is making you feel as if he wants to possibly save his marriage. Your MM needs to wake up before your GONE FOR GOOD!!!

He has days where it seems like he understands his lack of drive to move this forward has created a rift between us. But then other days he says I’m “going down the rabbit hole” which is what he has termed me trying to tell him this isn’t working the way we are doing things. I think he has a lot of internal conflict. He’s gotten used to the double life living and no matter how hard it is, it’s somehow easier than just being honest and moving things forward for us.

[Husbandssecret]

16 hours ago, BaileyB said:

He does sound like a child. He needs you to hold his hand and offer reassurance while he divorces his wife. And, he has been quite literally throwing a tantrum when you don’t... It would not be attractive to me, at all. 

It’s super unattractive! It’s like he’s saying stick by me now, on my terms, or don’t have this at all. Its very entitled.

I’ve never understood how he so easily just expected me to put my head down and keep pushing forward by his side. He’s never once asked how I was doing in the situation, he never once wondered if having the affair for so long was hurting me. All the power was in his hands and only now that I’m leaving he’s chosen to see the light. The frustrating part is that he would be so derogatory when I tried to get him to see before that we needed things to be moved along. He’d cut off the conversation and say I’m going down my rabbit hole. But now he “understands the pain” and he should’ve done it sooner. He “didn’t understand before”. 

[Husbandssecret]

Also this may come off as materialistic, but he never once got me a gift. My sister got me a pair of ray bans for Christmas and he said “oh no way I was going to get that exact pair for you! Now I can’t get them.” And then didn’t get anything. The only gift I got was just this last month and it was a journal that he wanted us to “write our travel memories in” because I’m huge into traveling. 

[Allupinnit]

6 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

Also this may come off as materialistic, but he never once got me a gift. My sister got me a pair of ray bans for Christmas and he said “oh no way I was going to get that exact pair for you! Now I can’t get them.” And then didn’t get anything. The only gift I got was just this last month and it was a journal that he wanted us to “write our travel memories in” because I’m huge into traveling. 

Wonder why his wife got sick of him. LOL

[BaileyB]

35 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

Not the same bed or mattress. He got new ones after she moved out. The family pics are still up though. I had nightmares the whole night when sleeping in that room, so it was clearly uncomfortable for me. 

No, no, no, no... I understand the need to keep consistency for the children, but this is exactly why he needs to take time after his divorce. It’s not going to feel good, moving into a home where her hair is still in the drain of the sink. 

I moved into my boyfriends home, the one he shared with his ex wife. But, she has been out of the home for four years and they lived in the home for less than a year. I think of the home as more of the home in which he has raised his son - I call it their bachelor pad. It’s a fine home, but it’s not my home. Even last night, I made a comment about my house (my old house) and he said “this is your house now.” It is, but it’s not. Which is why we are building a home together. 

I would never be able to move into another woman’s home so soon after she left. I would be having nightmares too. And I would be fighting the urge to flee...

Edited May 30, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, Husbandssecret said:

The frustrating part is that he would be so derogatory when I tried to get him to see before that we needed things to be moved along. He’d cut off the conversation and say I’m going down my rabbit hole. But now he “understands the pain” and he should’ve done it sooner. He “didn’t understand before”. 

Too little, way too late...

[elaine567]

Many people on leaving a marriage need a "bridge". 
Someone they can rely on to support them through the transition from married to single life.
Someone to hold their hand, pat them on the back and say "There there", someone to absorb all their anger and frustration...
 BUT once they heal and feel better and realise they are "free", then they often dispense with the services of their "bridge"...
Be careful.

[Luna66star]

Right on Elaine....very good point!  Letting go after a long term relationship involves deep grief and difficulty in being alone to deal with the loss.  Granted some look to professional counselors but my experience is that many men are reluctant to seek out this type of support.  It's much more comfortable to find a bridge relationship for support - for listening, hand holding, sex, affection and companionship.  All you do with a counselor is "talk the talk". While it can be very helpful to self-reflect with a counselor, there is no one there to hug you, hang out with or alleviate the loneliness on a day to day basis.  

As you point out, when this bridge person has helped them traverse through the various stages of grief, they look for someone else to start over. Unfortunately the bridge person (whose job it was to make them feel better) is left behind.  Their compassion and comfort will certainly be remembered.  In my experience, a one sided relationship like this will fail.  The OP is very likely the bridger for this MM.

Being an empath is a wonderful trait.  The challenge for us is to be aware of those relationships that draw us into the "rescuer" mode and avoid them at all  costs.  I got drawn in so many times over the years that the ramifications literally manifested in various forms of medical illnesses.

Self-awareness was the key.

 

[Husbandssecret]

On 5/30/2020 at 10:58 AM, BaileyB said:

Too little, way too late...

Exactly... He took so long that I have started to see him differently. I’ve started to question his motives. Now he needs to live with the decisions he’s made. He’s ruined an amazing love by being stagnant and not standing by his words. 

[Husbandssecret]

On 5/30/2020 at 1:29 PM, Luna66star said:

Being an empath is a wonderful trait.  The challenge for us is to be aware of those relationships that draw us into the "rescuer" mode and avoid them at all  costs.  I got drawn in so many times over the years that the ramifications literally manifested in various forms of medical illnesses.

Self-awareness was the key.

 

I agree! Being empathetic is a wonderful trait but if we let ourselves become a “rescuer” we can find ourselves in significant pain.

As for being the Bridger, I don’t disagree. There’s been many times I’ve wondered to myself if he would have been content seeing his marriage through at least until his kids were out of the house. He’s made comments before that he could have done that before meeting me. It’s almost like I taught him that he’s allowed to be happy and just because he has kids doesn’t mean he has to put that happiness to the side. He often says he doesn’t need to grieve the marriage, that he did that years ago. But it’s completely natural to grieve the end of an almost 20 year marriage. It doesn’t mean he’s still in love. It’s the end of an era. I felt grief when I moved out of my place that I was at for 4 years. I couldn’t imagine ending a marriage of that length of time.

Overall, I just wish he was more realistic. He convinces himself that he doesn’t need to grieve the end of his marriage. He has wild dreams for us that are great to talk about but he states them as promises. Ex: “we’re going on a family trip in December.” When I told him that he can’t promise things like that when he’s not even divorced, especially with kids involved, he says he’s not doing anything wrong by daydreaming and setting goals. I think it’s childish and reflects that he has no grasp on reality. That or he purposely misleads me and this is his tactic to keep stringing me along. Maybe I’m just more aware that those kinds of statements are nuts. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Husbandssecret

[Husbandssecret]

Yesterday was hard. He called me and I answered. We basically hashed out the same conversation we usually do, but this time I told him I needed him to leave me alone. My intention when I ended things wasn’t a goodbye forever, but it felt like that’s where we were yesterday. I refuse to go back to being the OW, and if that means losing him forever then that’s okay with me.

It’s just sad. He sounded defeated. I don’t wish that feeling on anyone. I know all too well about regretting mistakes I’ve made and I don’t want him to suffer those feelings of regret. But at the same time, he has the potential to have our relationship back if he divorces her for real and does things the right way. Just having a lot of emotions today-tired, angry, sad, anxious. I woke up today and remembered our conversation yesterday. I had an immediate pit in my stomach. Surpassingly though, I don’t find it hard to not send him a text or reach out to him, so at least I have that.