Compromises in long-term relationships

[elaine567]

Last time he was ogling another woman on a date and he disrespected you, you almost dumped him for it, he was on very shaky ground, yet he still decided to do it again....
This time he apologises and he is golden...
I know you want to defend and excuse him, but he sounds horrible on so many levels.
I guess if you were 23 not 43, he would be long gone...
 

[Ruby Slippers]

The first time he did it, I did dump him. If it continues, I'll dump him again and I made that clear. 

I've never been with a man who didn't check out other women to some degree. Perhaps it's because I select for more masculine / high-testosterone men, who have certain biological predispositions, many of which I love, some of which I don't.

[Allupinnit]

Oh wait - this is the SECOND time?  Oh hail to tha naw girl.

[clia]

He's the kind of man who looks at other women when he's out on a date.  That's who he is.  As Elaine pointed out, the last time he did it, you had a huge fight, broke up with him, the two of you fought for a week or two (I can't remember, sorry), and then you eventually accepted his apology and took him back.  You'd think after all that, he would know not to do it again.  But no, here he is, doing it again.  It's who he is, Ruby.  It's not going to change.  He might be able to reel it in for awhile, but he will fall right back into it, and you will be 70 years old swatting him across the table with the newspaper telling him not to look at the woman who walked by in the sundress.  

This is another one of those things that you are just going to have to decide to take or leave.    

[Ruby Slippers]

You may be right - but I've had boyfriends in the past who showed this tendency early on, and curbed it over time. It occurred to me that we've both had hardly anybody or anything else to look at for a few months. Before lockdown and after that breakup, it had been about 3 months with dozens of dates since I'd noticed anything concerning at all. So it might be a matter of living with a guy who curbs the tendency most of the time but has a weak moment now and then.

It's funny, just a day before, we had gone to the beach, where I fully expected him to be checking out all the women in their bathing suits, and had no issue with that. Not once did I see him checking out another woman, even the ones with everything hanging out. But he spent a good part of the afternoon taking pictures of me in my bikini. That was a sweet surprise.

[Woggle]

 I think that everybody man and woman notices attractive people to some extent. I don't think that is comparable to actual cheating.

[preraph]

I don't think it's necessarily cheating, but I do think it's a red flag and that if there was a woman who is at a certain place such as someone who works somewhere he could return to, I think a lot of men would circle back around and see if they could chat her up when you're not with them. I'm pretty positive of that.

 

There are women who would do the same.

Edited May 27, 2020 by preraph

[Ruby Slippers]

One thing I don't worry about at all is him cheating on me, and that counts for a lot.

One of the big positives about him is that he embraces routine of all kinds and is very loyal to the people and things he likes (typical Earth sign Capricorn).

He eats exactly the same breakfast every day. With the thousands of restaurants around, we usually go to the same 2 or 3, and he always orders exactly the same thing. Early on, he told me he's hiked certain mountain trails hundreds of times and every time is new and exciting. I surmised correctly that this could translate to our sex life, and it has.

We just had a conversation about this the other day, where I said I used to think there were so many wonderful things to try it was overwhelming. Now I realize there's very little in any category that's real quality, so when you find something great, it's like striking gold. He said yes, when I find something good, I stick with it, don't go looking for something different. That's his nature for sure.

[thefooloftheyear]

Its mainly summer now,.....the women are out, making sure you notice everything.  Some of them wear some crap that I can't see how any guy capable of fogging a mirror has the will power NOT to look....Its almost impossible...

But I will attest that some guys just never look....There can be a buck naked supermodel standing next to a shiny carburetor and they'll be checking out the carburetor..🙄😂

If he's a "looker" type, he wont give that up...Even my dad when he was  80 years old in the rehab was commenting to me on the tits and asses of the techs/nurses....What he may wind up doing is actually spending less time in areas where its difficult for him not to look....and you wont even figure out why....

What RS says is probably true though...I'd bet that those types of guys are better in the sack than the others...Not as a whole I am sure, but generally speaking...Is that worth the tradeoff,  can''t  say, its up to the individual...Most guys that are smart are cagey enough to do it on the down low....so it doesn't create an issue...

TFY

[Ruby Slippers]

4 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

What RS says is probably true though...I'd bet that those types of guys are better in the sack than the others...

@thefooloftheyear, I was wondering where you were when I needed you LOL

Yes. I've gotten the impression that some of these women with the "perfect men" who never look are the same women complaining that their men have zero interest in sex with them. 

I wanted a hot, sexy, virile, manly man, and I definitely got that. I suppose every rose has its thorn.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[Ruby Slippers]

I just saw that he did for the first time something I've never, ever seen him do - he put away the silverware from the dish rack into the drawer. Now, it was all jumbled up in the wrong compartments and facing all directions - but he DID put it away!

He also cleaned the stovetop that he had left splattered with food yesterday. I cooked an easy lunch, was expecting to go in there and have to clean the stovetop before I started cooking. But to my surprise and delight, it was already done.

No telling if any of this will stick, but I definitely recognize the effort and find it encouraging.

[elaine567]

15 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

Most guys that are smart are cagey enough to do it on the down low....so it doesn't create an issue...

Agreed and this guy is 55, he should have learned some manners by now, surely?
Everybody looks at sexy extraordinary people  but not everyone makes it awkward enough to upset their partner..

[Ruby Slippers]

Perhaps another personality factor at play. When we first started dating, he'd show me the "pervy" video clips his hiking buddies shared in their group chat. Nothing too bad, mostly women in revealing clothes telling stupid jokes and the like. I said that's not really my thing. 

He said it seemed better and more honest to be open about it than to sneak around with it.

I said I'm not interested in watching that stuff, I don't care if he does, but I'd prefer not to watch it myself. So he stopped showing me those videos, now watches them wherever, doesn't really try to hide it, but doesn't go out of his way to let me know. I'm fine with that.

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, clia said:

He's the kind of man who looks at other women when he's out on a date.  That's who he is.  As Elaine pointed out, the last time he did it, you had a huge fight, broke up with him, the two of you fought for a week or two (I can't remember, sorry), and then you eventually accepted his apology and took him back. 

Since this has been brought up, it's coming back to me.  It wasn't just "oggling," it was actually talking about a woman's boobs and comparing them to RS's.  Alcohol was involved; if I recall correctly it was quite an ordeal.  

RS:  My intention is not to call you out, but I have to say that you started this thread and gave a benign example of making a mess when your first breakup (if I remember correctly) was due to him being profoundly insulting and disrespectful to you.  

You aren't obliged to talk about anything you don't want to on a forum like this but several of us participated in that thread of yours.  We are aware of that aspect of your relationship.

Why do you justify whatever he does with  convoluted excuses.  You've chosen to accept it, which I can understand, I've accepted things I shouldn't have , in retrospect, because of love.  But, no, he does NOT talk about other women's boobs to you because of his manliness and testosterone, for God's sake.  He also doesn't do it because all the other women he's known (in over 50 years of life) have only been interested in his $$$ and failed to call him on it.  Those women are not responsible  in any way for his behavior and neither are his hormones.  You aren't either, it's all on him.  

It seems to me that you have some things that you could use some thoughtful help with to sort through.  You'd need to be more honest.  

 

 

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, clia said:

He's the kind of man who looks at other women when he's out on a date.  That's who he is.  As Elaine pointed out, the last time he did it, you had a huge fight, broke up with him, the two of you fought for a week or two (I can't remember, sorry), and then you eventually accepted his apology and took him back.  You'd think after all that, he would know not to do it again. 

IIRC, he actually commented on another woman's breasts on that date (highly disrespectful, obviously) which was part of some other verbal nastiness on his part. Just wanted to clarify it wasn't just glancing that triggered the fight/break up. RS, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

It sounds to me like he has toned things down significantly in that area.

As a male who might qualify as "high-testosterone" I think that, depending on what is showing, brief glancing is hard stop oneself from doing, whereas an extended glance would be well within one's ability to control.

I do worry that the verbal nastiness may return one day, but that's a different discussion. Presumably IC could help with that if he's willing. One step at a time IMO. I think I've said this before, but RS, I'd be sure he agrees to get that fully under control (e.g. via IC) before you agree to marry and particularly before agreeing to have kids.

Edit: You took the words right out of my mouth NY!

Edited May 27, 2020 by mark clemson

[Ruby Slippers]

2 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

It sounds to me like he has toned things down significantly in that area.

For sure. Nothing even close to that has happened again, and as I recall it was about 5 months ago. I'm not interested in digging it up and discussing it further. 

I can see this thread has already reached that inevitable point where people start turning over every detail of the history, picking it apart, bringing out the hammer and the nails. 

I appreciate the helpful comments!

[Allupinnit]

With all due respect, @RubySlippers - we're not trying to trash an otherwise innocent man here.  I think we all told you to lay off him when it comes to the cleaning.

But when it comes to THIS aspect of his personality, for whatever reason you're more apt to try and explain it away as his masculinity.  Why?  

I know my H glances at pretty women.  I don't care.  He doesn't ogle them and comment on their body parts for heaven's sake.  And he's got a VORACIOUS sexual appetite.  Stop making excuses for his apish behavior!

[preraph]

48 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I just saw that he did for the first time something I've never, ever seen him do - he put away the silverware from the dish rack into the drawer. Now, it was all jumbled up in the wrong compartments and facing all directions - but he DID put it away!

He also cleaned the stovetop that he had left splattered with food yesterday. I cooked an easy lunch, was expecting to go in there and have to clean the stovetop before I started cooking. But to my surprise and delight, it was already done.

No telling if any of this will stick, but I definitely recognize the effort and find it encouraging.

Since he likes routine, he may be like a cat; if you can get him to do the same thing enough times, he'll keep doing it.

[preraph]

39 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Perhaps another personality factor at play. When we first started dating, he'd show me the "pervy" video clips his hiking buddies shared in their group chat. Nothing too bad, mostly women in revealing clothes telling stupid jokes and the like. I said that's not really my thing. 

He said it seemed better and more honest to be open about it than to sneak around with it.

I said I'm not interested in watching that stuff, I don't care if he does, but I'd prefer not to watch it myself. So he stopped showing me those videos, now watches them wherever, doesn't really try to hide it, but doesn't go out of his way to let me know. I'm fine with that.

Being a guy's pal it's kind of fun at first but it gets old. A lot of guys you're comfortable enough with me to overshare!

[Ruby Slippers]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

Being a guy's pal it's kind of fun at first but it gets old. A lot of guys you're comfortable enough with me to overshare!

Yes, I told him that and other habits would work better in a men's locker room than with his girlfriend. He got that message loud and clear.

I did see his point about being open and transparent. It is better than sneaking around as if it's a shameful thing. Now I know, don't need further details.

[Weezy1973]

@Ruby Slippers I don’t think the issue is on compromising with your boyfriend, as it seems he’s trying to meet you halfway.

The issue may be acknowledging that compromise is an important and necessary element in all healthy relationships, and that might conflict with your fairytale vision of what a relationship looks like in your head.

Unrealistic expectations are death to relationships.

[DKT3]

22 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

@Ruby Slippers I don’t think the issue is on compromising with your boyfriend, as it seems he’s trying to meet you halfway.

The issue may be acknowledging that compromise is an important and necessary element in all healthy relationships, and that might conflict with your fairytale vision of what a relationship looks like in your head.

Unrealistic expectations are death to relationships.

She has admitted this is some of it.

[preraph]

I think the point at which it becomes unwieldy to continue to negotiate things in a relationship it's when you spend too much time doing it and disagreeing and trying to get a resolution. I mean there's bound to be some resentments on both sides when anyone compromises, so it's not that compromise just solves everything. If it becomes too much, then it's probably not worth it for the long term. But that's just up to each individual what their tolerance for that is.

[DKT3]

31 minutes ago, preraph said:

I think the point at which it becomes unwieldy to continue to negotiate things in a relationship it's when you spend too much time doing it and disagreeing and trying to get a resolution. I mean there's bound to be some resentments on both sides when anyone compromises, so it's not that compromise just solves everything. If it becomes too much, then it's probably not worth it for the long term. But that's just up to each individual what their tolerance for that is.

That's kinda the point of compromise,  right. Compromising isnt the same as acquiescing.  I believe you have the two confused.  Although,  I suspect sometimes we all confuse the two when the partner backs down.  

As the saying goes,  you know you've reached a good compromise when both feels screwed over but can live with it.

[preraph]

I'm just saying if the gulf is too wide it's not worth it. If it's a constant struggle it's not worth it. Find someone more on the same page. But I am not saying that's the case here at least not right now. For now they're working it out and prefer to be together.