Who Has Had the Antibodies Test?

[CaliforniaGirl]

Soooo...I suspect my family had 19 in February and March (in stages, kids first, then me, then my husband). So I'm getting antibodies tested next week. My lab will be Labcorp.

I'm reading all sorts of conflicting information on how accurate this test is. Have you been tested? If so, what were your results? Just curious.

[amaysngrace]

I was tested for antibodies and it came back negative.  So did my nasal swab test for covid come back negative.  My daughter’s test for covid was positive.  We live together.  She isn’t quarantined to a room with her own bathroom like they recommended.  I am not fanatical about disinfecting or even wiping down surfaces.  If I get around to it every other day I think that’s a lot.  Nobody in my house got it besides her.  She’s off quarantine tomorrow.  I think the whole thing is BS

[nospam99]

Thanks grace because I think a LOT of it is BS. You are just one anecdote. But I've heard others. And my observations continue to be:

- the far and away major hotspot for the entire US is NYC
- NYC is notorious for the subway as a public transportation system
- the subway has operated continuously throughout the pandemic
- subway cars are perfect petri dishes for a) crowding b) enclosed spaces c) repeated packing the enclosed spaces with crowds of more victims
- there is no indication that health care facilities in NYC and outlying areas have asked newly diagnosed patients the simple question 'when was the last time you road the subway'
- if the question was asked, Occam's Razor would expect a 100% correlation
- the NYC hotspot extends into adjacent counties in NY, NJ, and CT where hundreds or thousands of people commute to work in NYC and almost certainly ride the subway for the 'last mile'
- I live in a county within the NYC commutation area yet know no one who was diagnosed - but also know no one who commutes to NYC

So I've established a probable correlation for a causal mechanism and a reverse correlation for avoiding the infection. That's way more than enough that's needed for a descriptive model. It's also way suspicious that the civil authorities are not providing any data to answer questions that would support or deny my observations.

I just know a bit about NYC because my local news and state health department provide what little information they do. I'd be curious if for the other, much smaller, hot spots in the US there are similar public transportation circumstances that would provide crowding and enclosed shared air.

And to tie it all to grace's anecdote about her diagnosed daughter, how much more viri are likely to be floating around in a subway car packed with dozens of people than in a house with one infected person usually staying in her room?

[gaius]

@nospam99 it's been in the news for weeks that the majority of new infections in New York are coming from people who aren't at work and aren't riding the subway. Those who are supposed to be home but are going to dinner parties and chatting with their neighbors. It's almost like your observations about the virus involve staring out your window instead of actually reading the information that's out there.

As far as the antibody tests go, it's estimated right now they're less than 50% accurate. They advertise being 90 something percent accurate but that's affected by how many people are infected. Which is so low right now that the actual accuracy is much lower.

[nospam99]

@gaius. I hadn't seen any news at all about 'the majority of new infections in New York are coming from people who aren't at work and aren't riding the subway.' I tried googling it just now and found nothing. However I did find an article (that is both a month old and could easily be just more fake news) that jibes with my observations of the subways facilitating the spread of the infection. I can't post URLs under current LS rules and function. But what I found was the first hit when googling 'new york subway caught coronavirus'.

The first sentence in the article reads 'A paper claims that the nation’s largest transit system made NYC a Covid-19 hot spot.' Obviously I agree and have been saying as much for weeks. It's somewhat gratifying to no longer be a lone voice crying out in the darkness.

Edited May 29, 2020 by nospam99

[elaine567]

.Found that article and what it actually says in full.
"A paper claims that the nation’s largest transit system made NYC a Covid-19 hot spot. But experts say there are too many unknowns to link ridership to infection rates."
 

[nospam99]

@elaine. The article says a lot more than that. Typical of the politically charged 'discussion' around covid policy, even here on LS, there are people, including 'experts', arguing both sides of many questions. I just think it's interesting that I'm not a lone individual pointing a finger squarely at the subways.

[preraph]

I'm absolutely appalled to find out NYC hasn't been disinfecting the subway system every day all along.  That is SO gross.  What on earth do they do with their tax dollars there?  Disgusting.  

 

Dallas is a hot spot and hardly anyone here uses public transportation.  It's all about dense populations and carelessness.  

[BC1980]

I wouldn't get an antibody test right now because I've read some conflicting reports about how accurate they are.

[Redhead14]

12 minutes ago, preraph said:

 It's all about dense populations and carelessness.  

Yes, a large portion of the population is "dense", which is why we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of, at least, minimizing the continued spread.

[preraph]

They could choose to be dense and careful, but some people don't have enough patience or discipline to do that and others just will do the opposite of what the government recommends no matter what because they're nuts.  

 

The antibody test, no one has ever said it is reliable.  And no one knows if you have antibodies, how long they will prevent you from getting it.  But yeah, there's issues with the test.  I wanted one, but now I don't want one anymore.  It's just not going to be any peace of mind.  I need to get a regular test though.  

[elaine567]

22 minutes ago, preraph said:

I need to get a regular test though.  

Do you have symptoms atm.

 

[preraph]

I have chronic bronchitis, and it's been a lot worse for about 10 weeks, since this all started.  I don't know why.  But I have not run a high temperature.  Old people don't always run temperature, though.  The past couple of weeks, I also had more than usual shortness of breath.  I'm 67, so I can get tested just by being over 65.  Just waiting for a good location.  Right now they have put all the locations either downtown or in a bad area of town to want to drive into.  Nothing close to me at all.  If they start testing at the local indian clinic, I would go there, even though it's not close at all either, because I'm familiar with going there and it might not be as backed up as all the other locations are, lines around the block on the news.  They have part of what they need so I'm trying to reach them today to see if they finally got everything.   

 

I had a routine Dr. appointment that was supposed to be yesterday out of state at the Native American Federal hospital, but it cancelled.  I was going to get it there, but they did say it was a long wait.  It's actually safer up there, not nearly as many cases as in Dallas.  

 

I felt bad yesterday and still feel weak today when I'm on my feet, too, and I had to do dental work, plus tree work, so I've been possibly exposed the past couple of weeks, too, so I'm a little scared.  I think I was ill from food poisoning yesterday but I do still feel weak today, so just not sure.  

Edited May 29, 2020 by preraph

[Redhead14]

19 minutes ago, preraph said:

I have chronic bronchitis, and it's been a lot worse for about 10 weeks, since this all started.  I don't know why.  But I have not run a high temperature.  Old people don't always run temperature, though.  The past couple of weeks, I also had more than usual shortness of breath.  I'm 67, so I can get tested just by being over 65.  Just waiting for a good location.  Right now they have put all the locations either downtown or in a bad area of town to want to drive into.  Nothing close to me at all.  If they start testing at the local indian clinic, I would go there, even though it's not close at all either, because I'm familiar with going there and it might not be as backed up as all the other locations are, lines around the block on the news.  They have part of what they need so I'm trying to reach them today to see if they finally got everything.   

 

I had a routine Dr. appointment that was supposed to be yesterday out of state at the Native American Federal hospital, but it cancelled.  I was going to get it there, but they did say it was a long wait.  It's actually safer up there, not nearly as many cases as in Dallas.  

 

I felt bad yesterday and still feel weak today when I'm on my feet, too, and I had to do dental work, plus tree work, so I've been possibly exposed the past couple of weeks, too, so I'm a little scared.  I think I was ill from food poisoning yesterday but I do still feel weak today, so just not sure.  

Oh, Preraph.  I'm sorry you're not well.  Can't you get a Telemed appointment online?  Just so you can explain what's going on and maybe they can expedite for a physical appointment if they deem it wise?

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, preraph said:

I'm absolutely appalled to find out NYC hasn't been disinfecting the subway system every day all along.  That is SO gross.  What on earth do they do with their tax dollars there?  Disgusting.  

 

Dallas is a hot spot and hardly anyone here uses public transportation.  It's all about dense populations and carelessness.  

I used to live there. Yep, the subways are pretty gross...  just like you see in movies. 

I think "indoors" has been the general concensus all along, not necessarily one place or even one (long, gross) route. It's not hard to say people in NYC who ride the subway have 19 and could be spreading it because a huge, huge percentage of New Yorkers compared to some other metropolitan areas take public transportation. Correlation v. causation, who knows on that one. I do think any enclosed area and particularly a touch-y one will of course be a good place to spread germs but I'm not sure how or why this means an antibidies test is inaccurate, not sure how it went sideways like this. ???

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, nospam99 said:

The article says a lot more than that.

Of course it does, but you "cherry picked" the start of the sentence to back up your argument whilst ignoring the other bit that didn't

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, BC1980 said:

I wouldn't get an antibody test right now because I've read some conflicting reports about how accurate they are.

I am already signed up for mine and paid my ten bucks so I may as well go but I appreciate this info because apparently whatever result I get may just be wrong...hmmm. I was hoping that if I test positive I can help, be in studies and so on (not sure how it all works but I was extremely sick this spring and people keep advising me to do this, so I figured...why not).

I appreciate the info so I know to take results with a grain of salt, though, wow. Yikes.

[preraph]

That antibodies test just hasn't been fully vetted and the more they know about it, they more they realize it's not of that much use.  Hopefully a better one will come along.  

[preraph]

If I could get one for $10, I'd get one too just for the hell of it.  They're more like $140 in Dallas!

[preraph]

Does anyone know on the regular test, not the antibody one, can they use phlegm from your throat instead of rooting around up your nose?  

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 hours ago, preraph said:

That antibodies test just hasn't been fully vetted and the more they know about it, they more they realize it's not of that much use.  Hopefully a better one will come along.  

I wonder what I'll be getting. I don't even actually know. The process of signing up for it wasn't very revealing. I've heard there are several different types.

I do think they all involve a kind of painful thing up the nose, I am sorry. I know you asked about that above. Not sure, though. Hopefully somebody else will chime in.

[Mrin]

1 hour ago, preraph said:

Does anyone know on the regular test, not the antibody one, can they use phlegm from your throat instead of rooting around up your nose?  

Swab tests suffer serious accuracy issues. And they're only testing for active virus. 

As for antibodies tests, the LabCorp is one of the better ones. It is a full blood draw rather than a finger prick if I understand correctly. I believe the inaccuracies are on the false negative side of the fence - which is good. It is susceptible to false positives if you've been exposed to a different coronavirus (other than COVID-19). So that's concerning. 

A note about some of the suspected false negatives mentioned above. Most antibodies tests (including the one that administered by LabCorp) test for what is known as IgG or long term antibodies. I had COVID-19 and am part of a study. So I'm tested repeatedly and by multiple tests each time. I have been able to watch my progression as I transition through the different types of antibodies: IgA -> IgM and finally IgG. When I was one month post symptomatic I was positive for IgG in three of the four types of IgG tests they ran on that draw. The fourth one just wasn't sensitive enough to pick up on it. Remember - It had been one month since my last symptom went away. 

A friend of mine is in the same study. I was looking at her results which were about 5 weeks post symptoms. Her results showed positive for IgM across all tests. But not one IgG positive. Two weeks later she was positive for both. And two weeks after that all of her IgM tests were negative and she was fully transitioned to IgG.  

Okay what is this all mean? People develop IgG antibodies at very different rates with this virus. And the commercial tests are only looking for the long-term IgG antibodies. What it means is most testing centers including LabCorp say you need to be at least two weeks post-symptomatic. But in her case and probably mine, we were showing negative for IgG at 2 weeks. Hell she was showing negative for IgG at 5. But because we we're part of a study that was testing everything we would see where we were in transition. You, going to LabCorp, wouldn't see that.

So just because you think you got a false negative doesn't mean the test is bad per se. It might be that you just didn't have IgG yet.

 

Does that make sense?

[preraph]

Sounds like a person needs to have at least three tests to make any conclusions from that antibody test. A week or two apart. If you could get them for $10 like she says she can, it would be well worth it.

[CaliforniaGirl]

13 minutes ago, Mrin said:

Swab tests suffer serious accuracy issues. And they're only testing for active virus. 

As for antibodies tests, the LabCorp is one of the better ones. It is a full blood draw rather than a finger prick if I understand correctly. I believe the inaccuracies are on the false negative side of the fence - which is good. It is susceptible to false positives if you've been exposed to a different coronavirus (other than COVID-19). So that's concerning. 

A note about some of the suspected false negatives mentioned above. Most antibodies tests (including the one that administered by LabCorp) test for what is known as IgG or long term antibodies. I had COVID-19 and am part of a study. So I'm tested repeatedly and by multiple tests each time. I have been able to watch my progression as I transition through the different types of antibodies: IgA -> IgM and finally IgG. When I was one month post symptomatic I was positive for IgG in three of the four types of IgG tests they ran on that draw. The fourth one just wasn't sensitive enough to pick up on it. Remember - It had been one month since my last symptom went away. 

A friend of mine is in the same study. I was looking at her results which were about 5 weeks post symptoms. Her results showed positive for IgM across all tests. But not one IgG positive. Two weeks later she was positive for both. And two weeks after that all of her IgM tests were negative and she was fully transitioned to IgG.  

Okay what is this all mean? People develop IgG antibodies at very different rates with this virus. And the commercial tests are only looking for the long-term IgG antibodies. What it means is most testing centers including LabCorp say you need to be at least two weeks post-symptomatic. But in her case and probably mine, we were showing negative for IgG at 2 weeks. Hell she was showing negative for IgG at 5. But because we we're part of a study that was testing everything we would see where we were in transition. You, going to LabCorp, wouldn't see that.

So just because you think you got a false negative doesn't mean the test is bad per se. It might be that you just didn't have IgG yet.

 

Does that make sense?

Yes. This is great info, thank you. It's actually been three months since I first got sick, and about a month and a half since my symptoms went completely away.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I had antibody test done and it was positive. Doctor warned me that it's not very accurate. I also got a swab test done on Friday and doctor called me today to tell me it was negative. Since I haven't had any symptoms in over a month, I think it's safe to visit my parents this week.