Ask adult children to assist resolving relationship problems

[Wondering3]

Hi,

My wife and I are having some long running relationship problems around trust, support and jealousy. This situation has been the case for almost 30 years. We were usually able to patch things up for some weeks, but then the conflicts start again, and every time the list of issues becomes longer.

We have two adult children who we both love very much and who have good relationships with both of us. Both live in their own places for some years with their own partners.

We briefly tried relationship counseling several times. I believe it helps, but my wife does not want to do that. We are currently having another severe crisis.

My question is whether it is a good idea to ask our children to help us through this crisis and maybe even to address some of the long term underlying issues. The pros are that they both know us very well and maybe are therefore able to understand the deeper issues. If they can help us it is obviously also beneficial for them if we don't separate.

However, there is of course the risk that they get drawn into the conflict which could result in destroying their good relationship with either me or my wife. I also feel that it is not really their job to sort out their parents' issues. They should have their own lives.

But I also believe that talking to a "neutral third party" is necessary to make any progress in our relationship. Because the issues are so long running and complex I don't believe that any online forums can really help.

Any advice?

[jspice]

If the issues of trust and jealousy have to do with an affair, absolutely do not put them in the middle. 
you shouldn’t ask them to do this anyway but no child wants to deal with issues that force them to see that their parents are only human. 
 

if this has been a problem for thirty years, you and your wife might want to think about separating.

[Wondering3]

OK thanks for your advice, JSpice, no, neither I nor my wife (as far as I know) have ever had an affair.

[Emilie Jolie]

Your kids are probably already fully aware of whatever issues you guys might have  - 30 years' worth of ongoing severe crises are hard to hide. Regardless, I personally would not involve them, but that's up to you. Does this have to be a joint venture, or can this 'neutral third party' be an individual therapist?

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Wondering3]

Thanks Emilie, yes, they are certainly aware that our relationship hasn't been smooth, but so far we tried not to let them know about the details or ask them for advice. (BTW they are 28 and 22 years)

My wife does not want to go to a therapist or relationship counsellor.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Wondering3

[Emilie Jolie]

But surely your wife can't stop you from seeing a therapist yourself?

Also, the mere fact of posting in an anonymous forum can be quite cathartic in itself, regardless of the advice you may receive, so you could still give LS a try? You may even be given some advice or shared experience to think on in the bargain. A problem shared is a problem halved, as they say

Edited May 30, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Wondering3]

Thanks Emilie, yes, I did see a counselor for a while. He suggested I should leave her. But I still want to make this work. (I haven't told her what the counselor suggested.)

Maybe I'm just too naive believing that there is still a future or maybe I'm afraid of the consequences... Leaving my wife after 30 years of marriage is not easy. And there is not one big incident, like her or me having an affair. But it is the constant bubbling up of issues that just pile up over the years and wearing me down.

Yes, I may post to the forum. Thanks

[Emilie Jolie]

Your counselor suggested you should leave your wife? This is unusual (bordering on unprofessional, truthfully). Could be he assessed that your mental health is on thin ice, though.

The thought of leaving a long-term marriage must be daunting - would you say you have lots of incompatibilities that are difficult to square day-to-day, or communication issues? Or both? They are not always the same thing. Does your wife want to leave too? 

[Wondering3]

It is both. We are very different personality types. But we are also not very good at communicating. Whenever an issue arises we always fall back into the same argument pattern.

She does not want to leave me, but she also is not really invested in our relationship. She spends most days by herself on the internet and if I don't make an effort we barely exchange 10 words during a day, and almost never have any really meaningful conversations.

But at the same time she is very insecure and drags up things that I said to her years ago. Just one example: 30 years ago when we were engaged we had a stressful time before our wedding and were fighting a lot. At one stage I confronted her and asked her whether we should really marry. We concluded that we will be able to reduce the conflicts and that we shall go ahead. Just today she brought up my question from 30 years ago again and said that it is evidence that I never loved her and that I always wanted to leave her.

Another recent example: During the current Covid lockdown our supermarket had a policy of allowing only one customer per household into the store to reduce overcrowding. We were not aware of that, so the security guard told us at the door. So I went in the store while she waited outside, but 2 minutes later the guard ran after me because my wife had in the meantime ignored his instructions and went in as well. It escalated so far that the guard told us that we were trespassing and he called the police. I left the store while my wife kept on shopping until the manager came and spoke to her. I was absolutely livid. Everyone else is following the rules, but my wife was not. But she could not accept that she did anything wrong and instead accused me that I was not a good husband because I am "never on her side and am never supporting her".

These are just a couple of these many many conflicts.

But this is of course only my side of the story. I believe to resolve all this stuff it is necessary that we both can put our opinions and feelings on the table in front of someone who mediates and keeps the "heat" down, because after that many years there are so many trigger points which will just cause another eruption. Therefore my original question whether it would be appropriate if we ask our children to help.

[Emilie Jolie]

So my initial thought is that trying to repair those deep rooted issues in your marriage cannot be a one way system; if she's not an active participant in this, this is dead in the water (I'm sorry). Stonewalling, ruminating things said 30 years ago and creating a scene in public do not reflect well on her at all, even with her side of the story. This is, in fact, emotional abuse. 

I'm sorry you are going through this daily, Wondering3. This pressure cooker environment is not healthy day in day out.

If you were to ask your grown children to be your sounding board (which, I'm now starting to see, makes sense in this context), I wouldn't approach it as a thing you (the 2 of you) are doing together, but something that you do individually. You don't want to put them in a position where they will feel like piggy in the middle. Do you have other relatives you could also approach, like siblings, or maybe a good friend?

[FMW]

Honestly, I would NOT have wanted to get into any issues between my parents.  That just goes way beyond awkward.  So I'm not sure your children would be too happy at being involved.

Also, have you discussed it with your wife?  I can't imagine she would be happy with having them involved either.

[Wondering3]

Yes, she does not want to get the children involved. Her argument is that they would get "emotionally damaged" by it. That sounds a bit melodramatic seeing that they are adults, but in essence I also fear that it would be unfair and dangerous to them to get caught in the middle. (I believe in truth her other reason is that the children may tell her that her behaviour is not OK. I believe that is also the reason why she does not want to go to counseling.)

If I would talk to the children one-on-one she would see it as a betrayal and an attempt that I am trying to drive a wedge between her and the children.

[Wondering3]

She is terribly jealous of my family and she doesn't have a good relationship with her own family. So other family members are not really an option. And we don't have friends that are close enough to get involved in such a personal and sensitive issue.

[Emilie Jolie]

This is totally out of order, Wondering3. You should be able to talk to your own kids without her say-so; they are grown adults, any emotional damage they would have sustained will already have happened. The more I read about this, the more I think you need to have someone fighting your corner. You sound dangerously isolated.

[FMW]

Of course he can talk to his children, but the question is if he should.  The parent/child roles don't usually change that much to make involving them a good idea.  There's a big risk of messing up family relationships beyond his and hers.  

Sadly, a lot of couples come to a point of stalemate, there's nothing uniquely isolating in the OP's description of his situation.  It's the sad reality of a failing relationship.  If she's unwilling to seek help from a neutral third party or to have productive discussions directly with the OP, there's not much he can do.  

[Wondering3]

Thanks Emilie, I really appreciate your empathy. Yes, I feel quite stuck and don't really know what to do.

And also thanks for your advice FMW, even though it sounds quite sobering I see where you are coming from.

[elaine567]

 

56 minutes ago, Wondering3 said:

During the current Covid lockdown our supermarket had a policy of allowing only one customer per household into the store to reduce overcrowding. We were not aware of that, so the security guard told us at the door. So I went in the store while she waited outside, but 2 minutes later the guard ran after me because my wife had in the meantime ignored his instructions and went in as well. It escalated so far that the guard told us that we were trespassing and he called the police. I left the store while my wife kept on shopping until the manager came and spoke to her. I was absolutely livid. Everyone else is following the rules, but my wife was not. But she could not accept that she did anything wrong and instead accused me that I was not a good husband because I am "never on her side and am never supporting her".

Pre Coronavirus, who usually does the shopping?

[Emilie Jolie]

A stalemate, in my experience, does not involve stonewalling and constant fights. Yeah, people slowly grow apart, but this sounds like there is something more.

Wondering3, If you feel the only people you can go to after 30 years of keeping things close to your chest are your kids, for moral support or maybe simply sharing your perspective just so you can reassure yourself that what you are feeling is valid and real, I really don't see where the crime is. If my father was in your situation, I'd want to know. 

[FMW]

I may be wrong, but it seems that the OP is looking for someone to help with his communication with his wife, not just someone to vent to.  He probably has friends for that, or even his own family since he says they are close.  

But no need for me to debate the issue, my thoughts were just given for consideration.  I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation OP.

[Wondering3]

elaine567: Pre covid mostly her, during covid mostly me because she was afraid to get infected. But in this particular situation we were both on the way to visit our children and were in a hurry. So typically in a situation like that we would have both shopped at the same time. If she would have told me that she does the shopping and I should wait in the car, I would not have minded either. It is the principle that there are rules which every person in the country abides by for the safety of all of us. So for me it was just not possible to support her actions at that time. Maybe I'm too narrow minded, but I found her actions very upsetting.

And thanks Emilie and FMW. Yes, as mentioned, I think the issues are much deeper than just a few individual incidences. I am looking for a practical mechanism to address our issues. It is helpful to see how others consider the question of getting the children involved.

[Ellener]

Your children are definitely not a neutral third party, why involve them?

1 hour ago, Wondering3 said:

It is the principle that there are rules which every person in the country abides by for the safety of all of us. So for me it was just not possible to support her actions at that time. Maybe I'm too narrow minded, but I found her actions very upsetting.

Rules are that important to you? They're not to most people you know, and even if you disagree with her she's entitled to make her own mistakes.

A practical mechanism to address your issues- talking, counselling separately first, having a sense of humour, and above all- letting things go.

 

[Wondering3]

Hmm, thanks Ellener, I guess that is one of those areas where me and my wife have quite different personalities. Good to hear your point of view.

As I mentioned she is not prepared to go to counseling, neither together with me nor by herself. And "talking" is so far not working. Yeah, letting things go....

[schlumpy]

I'm trying to read some insight into your wife's personality. What does she her time looking at on the internet? Does she work? What are her interests.

Are there any type of drugs or alcohol involved?

[Wondering3]

Mostly news and chat lists. Often political stuff. Stockmarket. No, she doesn't work. I'm the bread winner. No excess alcohol or drugs.

When we went to relationship counseling once the counselor made a comment that insecurities are sometimes related to family history. She found that suggestion deeply offensive and refused to see the counselor again.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Wondering3 said:

elaine567: Pre covid mostly her, during covid mostly me because she was afraid to get infected. But in this particular situation we were both on the way to visit our children and were in a hurry. So typically in a situation like that we would have both shopped at the same time. If she would have told me that she does the shopping and I should wait in the car, I would not have minded either. It is the principle that there are rules which every person in the country abides by for the safety of all of us. So for me it was just not possible to support her actions at that time. Maybe I'm too narrow minded, but I found her actions very upsetting.

My guess she felt that in that situation, she thought she should have done the shopping and that you should have stepped down and let her do it, rather than stand your ground and make her the subject of the argument with the guard.
Had you gone to the car, then there would not have been a problem.