Combating Racism in America

[Piddy]

Here's something that famed ex columnist Mike Barnacle said yesterday.  I'm going to paraphrase what he said.  It relates to how a white couple and a black couple think regarding a new child brought into this world.

A white couple wants their child to be healthy and have a happy life and do better than they did.  The black couple wants the same for their child as the white couple.  But, the black couple worries about their child's (especially a male) safety.  And not the kind as in being run over by a bus etc..

No, they have to tell their child when stopped by police to keep their hands at the 10 and 2 position on the steering wheel.  And when asked to exit the vehicle to keep their hands up and visible at all times.  Black parents have an additional worry that white parents don't necessarily have.

Basically white patents don''t have this talk with their kids.  

Edited June 2, 2020 by Piddy

[sothereiwas]

4 minutes ago, Piddy said:

Basically white patents don''t have this talk with their kids.  

That's false. My dad told me to always be respectful and polite, to keep my hands visible and if it was night time, turn on the dome light. Have my paperwork ready before the officer exited his car, or wait until after he asked for it, and then always verbally communicate before making motions. This is basic respect and safety, I think all good parents warn their kids to behave in a safe way in any circumstance they can foresee. 

In short, I believe your assertion is a popular myth. 

[Zona]

I think everyone craps their pants if they are being following by a cop car, especially when you see the lights go on and you have to pull over. Cops can be power-tripping @ssh0l3s. Everybody knows that. You just hope that you get a decent one, then stay polite, but don't offer any information that you aren't specifically asked about. If they ask you if you know why you got pulled over, you are sealing your fate if you say it is because you were speeding or whatever. Don't incriminate yourself and make the situation worse.

I've discussed this with my kids who are just starting to drive (16 and 18).

Edited June 2, 2020 by Zona

[Art_Critic]

7 minutes ago, Piddy said:

No, they have to tell their child when stopped by police to keep their hands at the 10 and 2 position on the steering wheel.  And when asked to exit the vehicle to keep their hands up and visible at all times.  Black parents have an additional worry that white parents don't necessarily have.

Basically white patents don''t have this talk with their kids.  

That isn't true in my life, I have had that talk with my child.. I also do the same IRL

When I'm pulled over by the police my hands are in the 10 and 2 position and where they can see they at all times and I make no moves without their saying to do.

I have a police officer in my family so I get why you obey the police and make sure they can see your hands and it has nothing to do with skin color. Did you ever notice they put their thumbprint on the drivers side quarter panel before coming up to the window, that has nothing to do with skin color either and they do it to my car even though I'm white.

 

 

[Emilie Jolie]

2 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

  

Again, it's useful to look at the actual facts. While minorities have a higher poverty RATE, the number of americans living in poverty differs from the rates due to population differences. According to figures published by federalsafetynet.com, 15.7 million white, non-hispanic Americans live in poverty compared with 8.9 million black people, and 10.5 million hispanics. So that would seem to falsify your theory. 

 

Some facts:

8.9 million African Americans out of 42 million live in poverty. By contrast, 15.7 million White Americans out of 237 million live in poverty.

So 21% of African Americans are poor, compared to 6.6% of White Americans.

Based on your own figures and a bit of maths.

How is it possible to effectively combat racism in the USA, when the population seems to be equally divided between victims of racism (and those who support them), those who don't think there's a problem and full fledged racists?

Martin Luther King was right. There are 3 major evils - the evil of racism, the evil of poverty and the evil of war.

All three evils will continue on in a system that perpetuates inequalities.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Piddy]

5 hours ago, Art_Critic said:

That isn't true in my life, I have had that talk with my child.. I also do the same IRL

When I'm pulled over by the police my hands are in the 10 and 2 position and where they can see they at all times and I make no moves without their saying to do.

I have a police officer in my family so I get why you obey the police and make sure they can see your hands and it has nothing to do with skin color. Did you ever notice they put their thumbprint on the drivers side quarter panel before coming up to the window, that has nothing to do with skin color either and they do it to my car even though I'm white.

 

 

I think I said 'necessarily'.  My father worked for the police department and I knew many cops in my day.   This gets into the whole discussion about how blacks and whites are seen differently.  Blacks in many cases are thought of as suspects first by many.  Where whites aren't.  You're not denying that racial profiling never happened are you? 

Edited June 2, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed smart assed anwser

[sothereiwas]

8 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

8.9 million African Americans ....  15.7 million White Americans ... live in poverty.

If poverty causes crime 64% of crime would be committed by white people based on those figures. That's the point. We could go into the root causes for poverty and so on, and that might be interesting, but the point I was making is that the demographics of poverty in America don't really align all that closely with the demographics of poverty, particularly the assertion about robbery.

EDIT: I looked up some data

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus0402.pdf

[Emilie Jolie]

Just now, sothereiwas said:

If poverty causes crime 64% of crime would be committed by white people based on those figures. That's the point. We could go into the root causes for poverty and so on, and that might be interesting, but the point I was making is that the demographics of poverty in America don't really align all that closely with the demographics of poverty, particularly the assertion about robbery.

I don't think you umderstand the figures.

21% of all African Americans are poor vs 6% of all White Americans. The numbers need to be compared to the demographics in each group. It's ridiculous to compare figures for 13% of the population with those for 73% of the population. This simply makes no sense on any level, I'm sorry to say. You say you like facts - they are glaring you in the face.

 

[sothereiwas]

4 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I don't think you umderstand the figures.

Right back at ya.

If crime is caused by poverty, then crime will be proportional to the number of people living in poverty. It is not. 

I can't say it any more simply. 

[lana-banana]

White people denying the very existence of racism in this thread are reeeeeally telling on themselves. The racism is so ingrained that folks are arguing other races are inherently more violent rather than admit that racism exists. What, precisely, is so hard about saying "As a white person, I have immense benefits and privileges, and non-white people don't have those same benefits and therefore have a very different experience"? 

 

[sothereiwas]

3 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

What, precisely, is so hard about saying "As a white person, I have immense benefits and privileges ..."

The hard part would be the lying. Not everyone finds it hard, I know, but for me, hard. 

[schlumpy]

My approach to combating racism in America which is the title of this thread, is to take people as individuals. Some I like and some I don't. It's pretty easy. 

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, Piddy said:

Here's something that famed ex columnist Mike Barnacle said yesterday.  I'm going to paraphrase what he said.  It relates to how a white couple and a black couple think regarding a new child brought into this world.

A white couple wants their child to be healthy and have a happy life and do better than they did.  The black couple wants the same for their child as the white couple.  But, the black couple worries about their child's (especially a male) safety.  And not the kind as in being run over by a bus etc..

No, they have to tell their child when stopped by police to keep their hands at the 10 and 2 position on the steering wheel.  And when asked to exit the vehicle to keep their hands up and visible at all times.  Black parents have an additional worry that white parents don't necessarily have.

Basically white patents don''t have this talk with their kids.  

why do you make this assumption?

Edited June 2, 2020 by pepperbird

[Ellener]

Ibram X Kendi wrote in 2019 in 'How to be an anti-racist':

“Americans have long been trained to see the deficiencies of people rather than policy. It's a pretty easy mistake to make: People are in our faces. Policies are distant. We are particularly poor at seeing the policies lurking behind the struggles of people.”

[Emilie Jolie]

For those who don't understand privilege. There, this is what it looks like (copy paste the link and watch the video until the end)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K5fbQ1-zps

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[lana-banana]

22 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

The hard part would be the lying. Not everyone finds it hard, I know, but for me, hard. 

If you don't believe simply being white confers immense benefits and privileges that people of color don't receive, then you don't get it and you don't want to get it, period. You can insist to the contrary all you want but you're still wrong. 

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Some facts:

8.9 million African Americans out of 42 million live in poverty. By contrast, 15.7 million White Americans out of 237 million live in poverty.

So 21% of African Americans are poor, compared to 6.6% of White Americans.

Based on your own figures and a bit of maths.

How is it possible to effectively combat racism in the USA, when the population seems to be equally divided between victims of racism (and those who support them), those who don't think there's a problem and full fledged racists?

Martin Luther King was right. There are 3 major evils - the evil of racism, the evil of poverty and the evil of war.

All three evils will continue on in a system that perpetuates inequalities.

I would like to know what sorts of initiatives there are that actually driven by the community they serve?
I'm in a gardening group online, and one of the members started a community garden on a brownfield somewhere in LA. He's African American, and from what he's said, there's something about his project that's really connecting with people. he;s shared photos, and on a typical day, people of all races work together and if the pictures are any indication, they are laughing and having a great time. No one's left out, and there;s even raised beds so people who have mobility challenges can participate, and there's even a kid's area and spot for veterans with PTSD to get their hands in the soil.The people who spend time there take great pride in the garden, and work side b y side to keep it going and even fundraise as well.

I could be wrong, but maybe this is approach that could really make a difference. On its face, racism may be too big a problem to tackle as a society. It could be that small, community driven projects like this gentleman's garden will be a way forward. It might sound small, but IME, small projects can often make the biggest impact.

[Emilie Jolie]

44 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

If you don't believe simply being white confers immense benefits and privileges that people of color don't receive, then you don't get it and you don't want to get it, period. You can insist to the contrary all you want but you're still wrong. 

I've just posted a link to a youtube video called Life of Privilege explained in $100 bill race that may be delayed due to moderation. It was quite telling. I don't think many people actually understand what 'privilege actually means, and maybe associate it with a life of luxury and handouts or something. 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
added link

[lana-banana]

5 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I've just posted a link to a youtube video called Life of Privilege explained in $100 bill race that may be delayed due to moderation. It was quite telling. I don't think many people actually understand what 'privilege actually means, and maybe associate it with a life of luxury and handouts or something. 

"How to be an antiracist" should be required reading before participating in this thread. But no, everyone demands YOU educate them, and then if you do try to help them, they insist that it's not actually valid.

The thing is, they're not arguing in good faith. People who sincerely want to learn will do the reading, without demanding you explain it to them. They'll read, listen, and show up. Everyone else is just looking for excuses about why they shouldn't have to do anything.

Edited June 2, 2020 by lana-banana

[Emilie Jolie]

5 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

I would like to know what sorts of initiatives there are that actually driven by the community they serve?

Why should it be up to them to eradicate something they are not responsible for? It is our job to educate ourselves and challenge our own perceptions of what 'privilege' and 'institutionalised racism' actually means. Combating racism is a top to bottom and bottom to top job, from grassroots to the President. It's a whole society job. But how is it possible to combat it when so many people are convinced it doesn't even exist, and are perfectly happy to provide a platform for racists and extremist groups under the banner of 'freedom of speech'? 

[pepperbird]

 

I once had a conversation with a man who was very, very angry. He kept insisting that since I was white, I've never had to experience any hardships in life. He kept telling me I had lived a life or privileged, had never had to go without and I couldn't possibly understand his point of view. 
I am a very quiet person IRL and don't like confrontation, but the arrogance of that man's assumptions really pissed me off. I actually stood up to him, and the odd thing was, at the end of it, we were actually better able to understand one another. Maybe that's part of the problem? People not actually taking the time to really listen to one another and assuming they know what's in their heart and mind?

.

 

[pepperbird]

1 minute ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Why should it be up to them to eradicate something they are not responsible for? It is our job to educate ourselves and challenge our own perceptions of what 'privilege' and 'institutionalised racism' actually means. Combating racism is a top to bottom and bottom to top job, from grassroots to the President. It's a whole society job. But how is it possible to combat it when so many people are convinced it doesn't even exist, and are perfectly happy to provide a platform for racists and extremist groups under the banner of 'freedom of speech'? 

In my experience, when you make someone else responsible for your happiness and success, it doesn't work. What business does society as a whole have telling African Americans what they do and do not need?
 

[Emilie Jolie]

Just now, pepperbird said:

In my experience, when you make someone else responsible for your happiness and success, it doesn't work. What business does society as a whole have telling African Americans what they do and do not need?
 

Racism isn't an 'individual' problem, and institutional racism is exactly that: telling African Americans what they do or do not need.

[pepperbird]

Just now, enigma32 said:

I think the best way to combat racism would be if we all stopped separating people into groups. If you want justice, work towards justice, not just justice for one race, especially when you base your ideals on complete falsehoods. 

I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon though, if at all. Too many people I think enjoy saying they are oppressed. That's a lot easier than taking responsibility for your own life. 

I don't know about that. Sometimes, people just don 't have the energy to keep up the good fight. They try, but you can only get pushed back so much.

[sothereiwas]

16 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

If you don't believe simply being white confers immense benefits and privileges that people of color don't receive, then you don't get it and you don't want to get it, period. You can insist to the contrary all you want but you're still wrong. 

Well let's see how my life was privileged.

• When my dad had to quit school and go to work logging (with horses) at the age of 14 so the family would have a little more food, was that him showing his white privilege?
• When dad joined the US Marines at the youngest age he could, to make more room and resources available to his siblings, was he showing his white privilege?
• When he came back from serving overseas and immediately had to reenter the workforce as a logger, was that an example of showing his white privilege?
• When he got married and worked long days at a miserable and dangerous job so he could feed us, was that showing his white privilege?
• When, through all this, grandpa and dad never took a dime from government assistance, was that showing their white privilege?
• When I had to go to trade school instead of university for financial reasons showing my white privilege?
• Was my dad marrying my mom before she got pregnant showing their white privilege?

I have not come from a life or family of privilege. It's a little offensive when you claim I did.