Combating Racism in America

[Emilie Jolie]

3 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

I'm not sure, but I assumed that's because mostly black people live there. 

 

The automatic link between danger and black neighbourhoods is the problem. In order to get rid of the stigma, they need to be called something else regardless of who lives there, because they're obviously not all dangerous. That's what I was trying to get at.

[elaine567]

4 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

The automatic link between danger and black neighbourhoods is the problem. In order to get rid of the stigma, they need to be called something else regardless of who lives there, because they're obviously not all dangerous. That's what I was trying to get at.

But you are assuming because you were under the wing of your relatives that their neighbourhood wasn't dangerous.
Taxi drivers usually need cash, they take risks every day.
The fact they were not prepared to take black customers out of that area at night, I guess was not based on racism or assumption, but on experience.
Maybe  it was fear of life or theft,  but maybe it was something as simple as never getting paid, who knows?

[sothereiwas]

8 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

The automatic link between danger and black neighbourhoods is the problem.

Oh no, you misunderstand I think. It's not based on color, it's based on statistics for the area. The term black neighborhood just comes from the demographics of the area, the people up the hill from where I lived in LA were almost all black as well, it was sometimes called a black neighborhood, but no one worried about crime there as that area was colloquially called "pill hill" due to being mostly inhabited by doctors and other professionals, mostly black. The high crime area was known as Inglewood, also mostly black. 

The shooting range there had a running joke; the hours of operation are from 11am till 10pm, after 10pm you can come down and shoot pretty much anywhere you like. 

[Emilie Jolie]

2 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

Oh no, you misunderstand I think. It's not based on color, it's based on statistics for the area. The term black neighborhood just comes from the demographics of the area, the people up the hill from where I lived in LA were almost all black as well, it was sometimes called a black neighborhood, but no one worried about crime there as that area was colloquially called "pill hill" due to being mostly inhabited by doctors and other professionals, mostly black. The high crime area was known as Inglewood, also mostly black. 

The shooting range there had a running joke; the hours of operation are from 11am till 10pm, after 10pm you can come down and shoot pretty much anywhere you like. 

I understand what you meant. As I said, regardless of the demographic, perhaps a good idea is to not name any of them 'black' neighbourhoods at all because in some areas (not yours, of course, but plenty of others), black neighbourhood is associated with danger. It's been researched and talked about, so I've not just come up with it. 

In any event, we don't seem to agree on this  and I don't want an argument. I've made the mistake of getting swept up into endless circular discussions before, that I don't want to repeat so I'll thank you for this chat and leave it there for now 🙂

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, Emilie Jolie said:

perhaps a good idea is to not name any of them 'black' neighbourhoods

No shame in tapping out, however I feel it's only fair to note that one won't find "black neighborhood" on a map.

They are not named this as such, it's a colloquial term. When I rented my apt in LA, I walked into the unit and the landlord (a charming elderly black man, BTW) was there. He looked a little surprised, gave a little laugh, and had his daughter show me the place. When he was excusing himself, he asked me "You know this is a black neighborhood don't you?" to which I said "All I care about is the short commute." As a country boy I guess I wasn't aware of the rule.

And that was that. I'm not certain what the "real" name of the area is, everyone just referred to it by the street name. I do know it's used for a lot of film location shots.

[Emilie Jolie]

13 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

But you are assuming because you were under the wing of your relatives that their neighbourhood wasn't dangerous.
Taxi drivers usually need cash, they take risks every day.
The fact they were not prepared to take black customers out of that area at night, I guess was not based on racism or assumption, but on experience.
Maybe  it was fear of life or theft,  but maybe it was something as simple as never getting paid, who knows?

How do you know for a fact?

I didn't assume the neighbourhood wasn't dangerous. I met hard working, peaceful families, including single mothers, who live there too. So I guess it depends on what you want to see - focus on the bad elements and turn that into a generalisation, hence perpetrating stereotypes steeped in racism, and demand law and order, or you can focus on the overwhelming majority of the law abiding people who also live there, and think of ways to pull them out of poverty like investing in quality education.

[sothereiwas]

2 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

How do you know for a fact?

Crime reports are publicly reported. The site communitycrimemap is one of many that leverage this data to show trends. That's how I know crime was high. That and the nightly gunshots and constant sirens. As for how *I* know it was risk assessment based on factors for the service drivers, I asked. Despite what they said, they still came when people called.

Can't speak for how elaine knows things. She does know a lot of things though.

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, Emilie Jolie said:

How do you know for a fact?

I don't hence why I said I guess... and finished with Who knows?
The only fact reported by yourself was that the taxi drivers would only accept white clients.
BUT IME taxi drivers tend not to refuse custom if they can help it, they are thus doing so in that neighbourhood for a reason...
 

[sothereiwas]

11 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

The only fact reported by yourself was that the taxi drivers would only accept white clients.

I've been told that as well. Then I observed taxis and uber picking up my neighbors at all hours. I'm not sure how much truth is in the reports, but when I asked the drivers I called about it they said it was probably just based on a calculation that involved whether a prospective customer might be a criminal, and living in a high crime area was an indicator. They would then say they didn't do that, but they had heard about it. 

All I know for sure is that uber delivered a lot of food and picked up plenty of people at all hours. 

As a practical matter, how would a delivery person or a driver know the color of a customer before accepting the call?

Edited June 13, 2020 by sothereiwas

[Emilie Jolie]

23 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I don't hence why I said I guess... and finished with Who knows?
The only fact reported by yourself was that the taxi drivers would only accept white clients.
BUT IME taxi drivers tend not to refuse custom if they can help it, they are thus doing so in that neighbourhood for a reason...
 

Right, so you too are assuming? I shared my experience, not a universal truth. If the neighbourhood is dangerous, why is it safe to pick up white punters? I'm not the only one who experienced this, by the way. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Right, so basically you too are assuming.

So what reason did your cousin give for the taxi firms only wanting to ferry white people around town.

[Emilie Jolie]

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So what reason did your cousin give for the taxi firms only wanting to ferry white people around town.

'They won't come to a black neighbourhood at this time of night. Tell them you are white' is what she said.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

But you are assuming because you were under the wing of your relatives that their neighbourhood wasn't dangerous.
Taxi drivers usually need cash, they take risks every day.
The fact they were not prepared to take black customers out of that area at night, I guess was not based on racism or assumption, but on experience.
Maybe  it was fear of life or theft,  but maybe it was something as simple as never getting paid, who knows?

Poster said right away that the neighborhood appeared impoverished and dangerous.

Taxi drivers need cash.

Why would they be prepared to take a white customer but not a black customer out of that area?  This makes it a "black vs white person" issue rather than a dangerous neighborhood issue.

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by NuevoYorko

[sothereiwas]

So, every time they ordered Domino's, the theory goes that my neighbors would somehow enter an indicator that they were white on the website, in the comments box one assumes? 

Color me skeptical, no pun intended. 

[Halosglow]

1 hour ago, Emilie Jolie said:

So why are they called black neighbourhoods? If that's nothing to do with race, call it something else. The assumption that a white punter was automatically a safer client is also a problem - do you see that?

They say white neighborhoods and Latino etc come on now. Can't you see its the politicians that label us and it us who believes them. It is sooo ridiculous, Labels are for things not humans! Just saying

 

[Emilie Jolie]

Just now, Halosglow said:

They say white neighborhoods and Latino etc come on now. Can't you see its the politicians that label us and it us who believes them. It is sooo ridiculous, Labels are for things not humans! Just saying

 

I can see that, yes. That's my point

[sothereiwas]

On a more constructive note, if we can get our act together and allow the factors that led to the previously red hot economy to resume, the enhanced economic opportunities that brings will be good for all Americans. 

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

 

Incidentally, the USA is one of the only countries I know where racism is not illegal. I find that shocking, and telling. That's my opinion as a foreigner.

We can't even get a law passed to make lynching a federal crime.

[Emilie Jolie]

8 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

We can't even get a law passed to make lynching a federal crime.

Yeah. This and the 'right to freedom of speech' thing where militant, armed white supremacist groups are allowed to proliferate are a mind-boggle to my non-American self. I have every sympathy for those of you guys who can't do much about it.

[sothereiwas]

12 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

We can't even get a law passed to make lynching a federal crime.

Last time I checked murder was illegal everywhere, but maybe I missed something. 

[Halosglow]

50 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

We can't even get a law passed to make lynching a federal crime.

Lynching hasn't happened in decades. People need to quit looking behind them to find answers because the past don't have the answers or it would have been solved already.

[K.K.]

The last reported lynching was that of Michael Dodd in 1981. By a KKK member (which is also a fked up hate group and nobody but a fellow KKK member or die hard racist would think was cool to do to somebody just because they’re black.) 

Lynchings are murder and would be prosecuted as such. 

But you see you have someone saying it like it happens on the daily  and people buy into it. 

[sothereiwas]

1 hour ago, K.K. said:

But you see you have someone saying it like it happens on the daily  and people buy into it. 

That's the price of actual freedom of speech - people have the right to say nonsense and those who hear it are expected to be able to apply filters. Nothing is without some cost, but freedom of speech is precious enough to pay the tab for it. 

[carhill]

Paging Mike Pompeo, any other embassies doing this?

 

 

[NuevoYorko]

Regarding lynching:

I don't understand why some of you are objecting to it being made a federal hate crime.    

Lynching is defined  by state.  It is not specifically racially motivated though in recent years it has become mainly associated to race issues.  

Last winter, evangelical groups activated to have verbiage regarding protection of LGBTQ+ people removed from the anti-lynching bill. 

Lynching is generally associated with "murder" but in some states; Ohio, for example, it is defined as intent to do physical harm:

Any collection of individuals, assembled for any unlawful purpose, intending to do damage or injury to anyone or pretending to exercise correctional power over other persons by violence, and without authority of law, shall for the purpose of this act be regarded as a "mob," and any act of violence exercised by them upon the body of any person shall constitute a "lynching."

Rand Paul, who is holding up the bill, takes exception to the concept that participants in a mob intending to lynch  might be imprisoned for up to 10 years if they fail to inflict serious enough physical harm to a victim.