Combating Racism in America

[TheStickisback]

1 minute ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I'm listening. We have the same thing in the UK, it's not exclusive to the USA. What I am saying is that recruiting minorities of equal qualifications (that's how it works) is not a racist endeavour against white people. It has been set up to encourage diversity, or employers would be recruiting the equally qualified white person as standard. If things were fair, there would not have been a need for AA.

It affects every group. It becomes an oppression olympics in who is not represented or represented enough in a company

[Emilie Jolie]

Just now, TheStickisback said:

It affects every group. It becomes an oppression olympics in who is not represented or represented enough in a company

Then there was a recruitment problem orginally in that company, where they would have recruited white candidates as a priority when they had minority candidates of equal qualifications they chose not to recruit. 

It's not a perfect solution, but in a society based on centuries of segregation, you need to take proactive steps to ensure fairness in recruitment processes. 'May the best candidate be recruited' is a naive fantasy absent clear guidelines on equality and diversity.

[TheStickisback]

Just now, Emilie Jolie said:

Then there was a recruitment problem orginally in that company, where they would have recruited white candidates as a priority when they had minority candidates of equal qualifications they chose not to recruit. 

It's not a perfect solution, but in a society based on centuries of segregation, you need to take proactive steps to ensure fairness in recruitment processes. 'May the best candidate be recruited' is a naive fantasy absent clear guidelines on equality and diversity.

Proactive solutions lead to authoritarian rules. Company chooses not to hire you then start your own. 

[TheStickisback]

2 minutes ago, TheStickisback said:

Proactive solutions lead to authoritarian rules. Company chooses not to hire you then start your own. 

Ultimately capitalism will show what is the better way to hire people

[Emilie Jolie]

Just now, TheStickisback said:

Proactive solutions lead to authoritarian rules. Company chooses not to hire you then start your own. 

Not when applied fairly.

Lack of proactive steps lead to segregation and indicates a culture of structural racism.

If all a company's staff prior to AA were white even when they had minority candidates of equal qualifications, that's a cultural problem.

[TheStickisback]

Here is the thing if you think someone doesn't want you somewhere why make them accept you when you can empower yourself and create your own business or even be patient and find where you are accepted. Affirmative action in my opinion as a minority created a culture of victimhood. It also masked the problem instead of dealing with it. It's the equivalent of taking tylenol for a fever when you have an infection. The fever maybe gone but eventually you may go septic if you don't treat the real problem

[TheStickisback]

The way to achieve equality is being honest about it. If you have a bias be honest about it and then have that conversation and listen don't be emotional. 

I've been told I would be nothing. I've heard I don't need a business license to deal drugs when I attempted to have a legitimate business. I work as a nurse in long term care you know how many times I get called the N word by some old person. I've lost count.

I will be honest it bothered me but I saw it as motivation for whatever I do to be the best at it. You can't be a victim because no one really respects it. You have to empower yourself and come up with a strategy for success

[Weezy1973]

I think people have a hard time acknowledging how much of life is just based on luck. People struggle or succeed primarily based on pure luck of birth. What country they were born in. What parents they were born to. And yes, what race they happen to be. Admitting that certain races have it harder suddenly means that white people have it easier. And some of their success happens to just be based on good luck rather than say hard work or some special innate abilities.

 

Thats tough for an ego to take.

[jspice]

No White person here would switch lives with any Black person even for a day. 
They know the score. They just refuse to admit it. 
Start a business if you can’t get hired anywhere else 🙄

Right. 

[TheStickisback]

2 minutes ago, jspice said:

No White person here would switch lives with any Black person even for a day. 
They know the score. They just refuse to admit it. 
Start a business if you can’t get hired anywhere else 🙄

Right. 

It's a good choice

[Acacia98]

On 6/2/2020 at 3:25 AM, Zona said:

 

My wife's best friend is from Zambia.  Her attitude, and the attitude of other recent black immigrants is completely different from the average African American.

Perhaps the fact of having grown up in a country where they are part of the racial majority has something to do that.

Perhaps the fact that they're likely to have been middle class in Zambia also has something to do with that.

Those are completely different circumstances that could quite conceivably influence one's attitude.

[schlumpy]

2 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Apparently any white POTUS is fully allowed to be a disaster area, but a Black POTUS has to be grateful for having been bestowed the honor of being POTUS, and only the highest level of perfection is deemed acceptable coming from him. I didn't rate him, based on his handling of foreign affairs (turns out he too followed the way of the traditional trigger-happy US POTUS) but I don't get why he gets to be judged more harshly than any other guy before him.

It depends on what the basis is for your judgement. I never fault someone who reaches a rational conclusion based on the how the facts affect their life.

I dislike President Obama's terms in office because my life was not better because he was President. I dislike President Carter's term in office for the same reason.

President Obama's policies kept my portfolio returns at less then 2 percent for 8 years. That was barely enough to make up for inflation. That was a significant loss for my 28 years of investing. His ACS act caused me to lose a great health insurance plan and pay significantly more for services I didn't need. 

By the time his term was finished I was a poorer man and the ACS is still beating down my wife with an eighty dollar increase in her healthcare policy last year. I'm retired and live on a fixed income.

Now if my life revolved around "change" instead of stability where you can build a life or progressive ideas instead of tried and true methods, than I can fully understand why the people that voted for President Obama are very happy with his two terms. It was rational decision on their part that enhanced their lives.

If you can just drop the race baiting for a few minutes you will see we are not that far apart. 

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, jspice said:

No White person here would switch lives with any Black person even for a day. 
They know the score. They just refuse to admit it. 
Start a business if you can’t get hired anywhere else 🙄

Right. 

I would volunteer to switch with President Obama and his new eleven million dollar home in the Hamptons. I would not volunteer to switch with the young black man across the alley who has sat around for the last 3 years smoking cigarettes and living off his mother. 

[schlumpy]

55 minutes ago, preraph said:

I think that's true for the most part, but if it is true it's mostly because of how unhappy blacks have told everyone they are and how much crime. 

Nice Story. I'd like to hear more in the future if you get a chance to relate and stay on topic.🙂

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, jspice said:

Keep telling Black people how NOT racist your country is. I’m sure they’ll be relieved to hear how mistaken they’ve been all this time. 

Enlightenment drips slow. It does not matter how I feel about another person's experience, if I'm supposed to be listening to them.

Interesting how life comes around though, how people who mock another's fears will get to experience fear themselves...good always triumphs over evil in the end.

Choose kindness is a cliche...a truism...but it's the way to go.

For a happy life.

 

 

[sothereiwas]

1 hour ago, jspice said:

No White person here would switch lives with any Black person even for a day. 

I'll trade WIll Smith for as many days as he can stand. 

[elaine567]

The reality is that most people are selfish and self centred.
We are built to compete, to make the best out of life we can.
Racism is not about lack of education, it is usually about looking out for number one.
Survival of the fittest.
Most races with an "advantage" over a minority group around the world, do not want to give that up.
Why would they?
They may tolerate minorities as second class citizens, born to serve, but true equality? No way..
Some countries will even make living as a  minority very difficult or impossible.
It suits the majority race too much to be superior, so they never want to cede power. 
That is why I believe racism, covert or overt is not going anywhere, anytime soon.
Sad to say.

 

[salparadise]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I think people have a hard time acknowledging how much of life is just based on luck. People struggle or succeed primarily based on pure luck of birth. What country they were born in. What parents they were born to. And yes, what race they happen to be. Admitting that certain races have it harder suddenly means that white people have it easier. And some of their success happens to just be based on good luck rather than say hard work or some special innate abilities.

Thats tough for an ego to take.

This concept is spot on. Most white people in America have no idea what it's like to be black. The truth is probably that no white person truly understands. We can try to imagine, we sympathize, and some even empathize, but that's a long way from understanding. 

Here is a quote from French sociologist/philosopher Max Weber:

“The fortunate man is seldom satisfied with the fact of being fortunate, beyond this he needs to know that he has a right to his good fortune. He wants to be convinced he deserves it and above all that he deserves it in comparison with others. Good fortune, thus wants to be legitimate fortune.” 

Human beings have an innate need for status hierarchy, and to believe that they are superior. This is the origin of racism, and the reason it is so difficult to change. Biologically there is no such thing as race; it is a mental/social construct that serves to define an other to be better than. It uses the most visible, yet meaningless, traits to differentiate. Secondarily, socioeconomic status and national origin serve a similar purpose... to allow the most fortunate to believe they are deserving by way of inherent virtue. 

If anyone is interested in an in-depth understanding of the history and nature of racism, I highly recommend the podcast "Seeing White" by Scene On Radio. There is a website too, but if I provide a link this will be moderated, and who knows for how long. Also google Max Weber if you really want to dive into the socio-economics and the nature of things you haven't even thought of yet.

Edited June 6, 2020 by salparadise

[salparadise]

Here are the links to the two sources I mentioned in my previous post. Hopefully this post will be approved before the concept of race is abolished completely.

Scene On Radio, Season 2, Seeing White  - Probably the best and most digestible work I've found on the nature of race. If you're a conservative I dare you to listen with an open mind.

Max Weber Quotes on Goodreads - So advanced that he's difficult to read sometimes, but you really should.

Constitutional Podcast by the Washington Post - Several episodes of this podcast go into how race was written into the US Constitution, and the difficulties they went to create a segregated, slave-holding society, and how white was narrowly defined because it was intended to serve the interests of whites only. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by salparadise

[Emilie Jolie]

44 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

I would volunteer to switch with President Obama and his new eleven million dollar home in the Hamptons

Swap places with him as a kid, raised by a single parent. Let's see if you too could have put yourself through Columbia, then Harvard, then got elected first Black POTUS

48 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

If you can just drop the race baiting for a few minutes you

Read about the history of your country, and look at the state of your streets, instead of talking to me about 'race baiting'. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[sothereiwas]

6 hours ago, TheStickisback said:

Here is the thing if you think someone doesn't want you somewhere why make them accept you when you can empower yourself and create your own business

It doesn't even have to come to this. In a competitive marketplace, an organization that consistently turns away the most capable applicants because they are the wrong sex or color or age or whatever will find itself at a competitive disadvantage, as other competing organizations hire those more capable individuals. Interestingly, turning away those most qualified individuals is a disadvantage no matter what the reason. It's in everyone's best interests overall if choices like this are strictly made based on capability. 

 

[Weezy1973]

I’ll post a link despite the moderation time. It’s by a successful black man, Neil Degrasse Tyson, and worth the read. Although I realize that racism deniers likely won’t read it...

 

https://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/commentary/2020-06-03-reflections-on-color-of-my-skin.php

[sothereiwas]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Why would they?

Because having the best, strongest, etc. on your team makes for a winning team. If a suboptimal filter is applied, the team/tribe/corp will be suboptimal. 

[salparadise]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

I’ll post a link despite the moderation time. It’s by a successful black man, Neil Degrasse Tyson, and worth the read. Although I realize that racism deniers likely won’t read it...

Read it. Excellent article. The awareness of being black he cites, his father lecturing he and his siblings on how to survive an encounter with police, and the awareness of being the "other" every time he steps outside, those are things white kids never have to worry about. And the freedom of not even having to concern yourself with such things is white privilege. Not all of it, but part of it. Not having such awareness, and not needing it, doesn't mean you aren't benefitting from it. This stuff works on so many levels. I am embarrassed when people of my race deny intrinsic bias, any degree of racist thinking, or any white privilege. It's plain ignorance, due to never having taken the trouble to explore these concepts from another's perspective, or to think more objectively than selecting a few "facts" to confirm their tightly held egoic beliefs. Of course I'm preaching to the choir here on LS, aren't I?

[sothereiwas]

3 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

I'll trade WIll Smith for as many days as he can stand. 

I'd like to amend my request - make that Jaden Smith - Will is getting a little old.