Combating Racism in America

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, K.K. said:

 

Lynchings are murder and would be prosecuted as such. 

But you see you have someone saying it like it happens on the daily  and people buy into it. 

That is not what is happening.  People want to see this country stand up against this particular hate crime.  The fact that it is not a federal crime is not something to "buy" or not, it's a position this country has taken.

Lynching is specifically a mob activity.  No, all participants are not charged with murder.  Also as I noted in the above post, some states currently do not require murder to have been accomplished for the crime to qualify as "lynching."

[sothereiwas]

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Any collection of individuals, assembled for any unlawful purpose, intending to do damage or injury to anyone or pretending to exercise correctional power over other persons by violence, and without authority of law, shall for the purpose of this act be regarded as a "mob," and any act of violence exercised by them upon the body of any person shall constitute a "lynching."

I'm not a lawyer, but doesn't that last part mean an act of violence is required to trigger this law? It reads like it's making it illegal to be LARPing in a specific way, for instance the warlords kids in The CHAZ (ROFL) would, it seems like, be performing a lynching every time they force a person to undergo a search at the border between CHAZ and Seattle. 

 

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

Rand Paul, who is holding up the bill, takes exception to the concept that participants in a mob intending to lynch  might be imprisoned for up to 10 years if they fail to inflict serious enough physical harm to a victim.   

I admit, I'm having a little trouble parsing this. 

"Takes exception to the concept" means to oppose the idea I guess. "If they fail to inflict serious enough harm" means if they don't hurt someone enough. This seems to be saying a person might be be imprisoned for the act of not hurting someone enough. Decoded, it seems like you're of the opinion Rand Paul is wrong in thinking not hurting someone should be legal. I go through a typical day not hurting a lot of people myself, I'd hate to live in a world where I was legally required to do so. 

 

5 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

No, all participants are not charged with murder. 

We have other crimes like accessory before or after, or conspiracy. Illegal imprisonment. Lots of laws against this sort of 'event'. 

 

I'm not a fan of hate crime laws in general though. If one citizen infringes the rights of another I'm a lot less concerned with why than with other factors. Getting into why starts to delve dangerously close to thought crime. 

[carhill]

Lynching or suicide?

Quote

VICTORVILLE, Calif. (VVNG.com) — The San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department said foul play is not suspected in the death of a Black man who was found hanging in a tree in Victorville.

https://www.vvng.com/sheriffs-department-says-foul-play-not-suspected-after-black-man-found-hanging-in-tree-near-victorville-city-library/

Quote

Malcolm had very recent conversations with his children about seeing them soon. He didn’t seem to be depressed to anyone who truly knew him. EVERYONE who knew our brother was shocked to hear that he allegedly hung himself and don’t believe it to be true as well as the people who were there when his body was discovered. The explanation of suicide does not seem plausible. There are many ways to die but considering the current racial tension, a black man hanging himself from a tree definitely doesn’t sit well with us right now. We want justice not comfortable excuses.” The Harsch family told VVNG.

 

[sothereiwas]

43 minutes ago, carhill said:

Lynching or suicide?

https://www.vvng.com/sheriffs-department-says-foul-play-not-suspected-after-black-man-found-hanging-in-tree-near-victorville-city-library/

 

I hope suicide, because otherwise my evaluation of my fellow humans will have to drop another notch, and it's getting close to the floor right now. 

[Halosglow]

7 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

That is not what is happening.  People want to see this country stand up against this particular hate crime.  The fact that it is not a federal crime is not something to "buy" or not, it's a position this country has taken.

Lynching is specifically a mob activity.  No, all participants are not charged with murder.  Also as I noted in the above post, some states currently do not require murder to have been accomplished for the crime to qualify as "lynching."

When you say this country you mean the Government right. I know there are some dumb people out there who think they are superior to others and they are the problem. The law makers and the lobbyist are bought and paid for and what ever they want they get and that and congress are all corrupt and need to be voted out. Maybe then the good people of this country can get the laws past. All these big money people need to be boycotted so the American people can run thing in a kinder more free way then what we are doing now. To many people are homeless and it is sad when there is enough for the whole world.   

[SincereOnlineGuy]

11 hours ago, Halosglow said:

Lynching hasn't happened in decades. People need to quit looking behind them to find answers because the past don't have the answers or it would have been solved already.

 

Lynching,  dragging death, attempted dragging death...     forget the semantics and face the problem, no matter what form it takes.

[carhill]

Beauty products/other apparent highly stolen products to be uncaged by some retailers....

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/4953926C-AC44-11EA-B24E-A741DCDF0F0B

Quote

NEW YORK — Drugstore chains Walgreens and CVS Health say they will stop locking up beauty and hair care products aimed at black women and other women of color, joining Walmart in ending a practice at some stores that has drawn the ire of customers.

“We are currently ensuring multicultural hair care and beauty products are not stored behind locked cases at any of our stores,” Walgreens WBA+1.6%   said in a statement emailed to The Associated Press late Thursday.

 

[Halosglow]

On 6/13/2020 at 10:15 PM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

 

Lynching,  dragging death, attempted dragging death...     forget the semantics and face the problem, no matter what form it takes.

Here it the problem POLICE BRUTALITY of every and all people. Not just the ones the use for propaganda!!! You are just fueling an useless fire. Police have been abusing people for decades. I had six brothers and it happened to them almost every week. When you try to fight a police officer you are asking for it. But when you comply and get shot anyway which has happened to every race countless times. IT IS POLICE BRUTALITY. You seriously think these jerks care about their skin color the cops doing this couldn't care less. They just think they have the right to do what they want. Take out their anger on others even their own wives and kids

[SincereOnlineGuy]

10 hours ago, Halosglow said:

Here it the problem POLICE BRUTALITY of every and all people. Not just the ones the use for propaganda!!! You are just fueling an useless fire. Police have been abusing people for decades. I had six brothers and it happened to them almost every week. When you try to fight a police officer you are asking for it. But when you comply and get shot anyway which has happened to every race countless times. IT IS POLICE BRUTALITY. You seriously think these jerks care about their skin color the cops doing this couldn't care less. They just think they have the right to do what they want. Take out their anger on others even their own wives and kids

We have to ask just what sorts of environs you and all of those siblings were in, where you became enough of the focus of police to be abused  by police almost every week ??

 

 

 

[Halosglow]

15 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

We have to ask just what sorts of environs you and all of those siblings were in, where you became enough of the focus of police to be abused  by police almost every week ??

 

Well I lived with my dad and six brothers. Our mom went to work one day and never came back. I was eight years old. At that point my dad whom drank heavily and even more so when she left. Of course drank with my brothers. There was a lot of pain and anger in all of them and drinking would start the blame game about who did what to make her leave. When she was there I had no clue there was drinking going on. So as an eight year old it was crazy to see the cops all the time. And when they came the youngest of my brothers were filled with rage not just because our mom was gone but she was gone again! I did not know she had left before and all my siblings were put in foster care. And unspeakable things took place that effected them poor young children all of their lives. She returned nine months later with a new little sister. ME. But I was not conceived by the man whom raised me. That is a whole other story. But by the time I was eight the things that happened to them had given them major issues which they never spoke of until they were dying. My life has been tragic but I don't care I am grateful to just be alive. Not so much now a days with whats going on in this world

 

 

[schlumpy]

There once was a great political  cartoonist by the name of Jules Ralph Feiffer. He was a master of combining images with thoughts.

I remember one of his cartoons very vividly because it left such an impression on me. I'll try to describe it.

The scene was an execution by firing squad.

The convicted was against a bullet scarred wall, hands tightly bound, blindfold fully over his eyes.

The officer pleaded with the man to see the truth and that he could not go on spreading lies. That he was dangerous to society as a whole.

 Every plea for commonsense was met with a scripted dogmatic reply until the officer dropped his sword and the firing squad performed their duty.

The last panel had the officer sadly state as he observed the lifeless body on the ground, "You just can't get through to them."

The genius of Mr. Feiffer is that if you were left politically then you saw the officer as being on the right. If you were right leaning you saw the officer as being on the left.  Mr. Feiffer did not indicate in the cartoon which side it was. 

No matter who is in charge they will attempt to quell the opposition through whatever means is available be that a prison, exile, or execution. History is my witness.

Revolution never turns out well for the common man.

[preraph]

New community leaders are emerging and having a voice now.  One I like is Burgess Owens, former NFL running for senate in Utah.  Lots of common sense and a good heart.  I tried to keep this link from posting as a whole video but this one didn't give me an option.  

 

[Libby1]

23 hours ago, preraph said:

New community leaders are emerging and having a voice now.  One I like is Burgess Owens, former NFL running for senate in Utah.  Lots of common sense and a good heart.  I tried to keep this link from posting as a whole video but this one didn't give me an option.  

 

A friend of mine has always been a Marxist.  I've known him for decades, and always tried to avoid discussing politics with him.  Fortunately he has lots of other interests, and also has a great sense of humour. The thing about him is...he's a genuinely good guy, and too often he's been misled by this belief that everybody who shares his ideology is also (by virtue of the fact that they share it) a good guy.  Lately he's been voicing a lot of negative views about the Antifa posturers...and it's clearly not just some old contrarian "bah....I was into Marxism when they weren't even a twinkle in anybody's eye, they don't know what they're talking about..." negativity.  He describes them as Stalinist.  It's that thing your guy in the video is talking about.  These are people who are chasing power.  They're one extreme of the continuum that has tech multi-billionaires at the other end.  Those ones who have far too much power over all of our lives, over the platforms people can share opinions on, over our personal information, over politics and over policy. 

These little Stalins don't seem to mind the tech billionaires or the massive amounts of power they wield.  It's the middle class who just want to get on with their lives with a reasonable amount of freedom and independence who they seem to be constantly gunning for.   I guess BLM regard them as useful in the same way that they regard BLM as useful..but I think that sooner or later those two groups will collide.

[preraph]

Libby I have a similar friend. She is socialist and has been influenced by her really messed up conspiracy type husband. 

But like your friend she came out at from an idealistic viewpoint much like all of us had as college students. of course anyone who actually reads their history will know that the ideology looks good on paper but can simply never be sustained and always ends up in human slavery and/or starvation. 

 

My friend actually protested with antifa in the early days at least once. I told her they were violent and she would just point to herself as an example of how they were not. But once she started seeing for herself the violence, she stopped affiliating. She's more like an old hippie. Us old hippies know what a peaceful protest is, and this ain't it. 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by preraph

[sothereiwas]

For those who believe institutional racism is rampant in America, consider the fact that the vast majority of American institutions are run by progressives (also mostly Democrats) and see what that meditation reveals. 

[Ellener]

I like how Black Lives Matter movement includes policies of intentional listening, and inclusion for other marginalised groups in our society:

Every day, we recommit to healing ourselves and each other, and to co-creating alongside comrades, allies, and family a culture where each person feels seen, heard, and supported.

We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities.

We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.

We intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.

We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.

We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.

[Piddy]

1 minute ago, sothereiwas said:

For those who believe institutional racism is rampant in America, consider the fact that the vast majority of American institutions are run by progressives (also mostly Democrats) and see what that meditation reveals. 

Doesn't reveal much.  Many CEO's are progressive.  But years and years of embedded institutionalized racism doesn't magically go away because of this.  It's a little more complicated than that.  So I'll pass on the meditation.  

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, Piddy said:

Doesn't reveal much.

In any meditation, the degree of enlightenment is often determined by the meditator. 

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, Libby1 said:

These little Stalins don't seem to mind the tech billionaires or the massive amounts of power they wield.  It's the middle class who just want to get on with their lives with a reasonable amount of freedom and independence who they seem to be constantly gunning for.   I guess BLM regard them as useful in the same way that they regard BLM as useful..but I think that sooner or later those two groups will collide.

The tech billionaires know that the fire that is consuming others can also be turned towards them. They are perpetuating a false truce and some point in time we will hear the well used phrase, "But I was on your side!"

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, schlumpy said:

The tech billionaires know that the fire that is consuming others can also be turned towards them. They are perpetuating a false truce and some point in time we will hear the well used phrase, "But I was on your side!"

The D party is the party of the ultra rich and their serfs. The R party is the party of the aspirational and those who have achieved some success in life. Exceptions happen on both sides, but the famous synopsis is "The republicans are the party of millionaires, whereas the democrats are the party of the billionaires." and that's not far off. The further up the middle class a person goes, the more likely they are to vote republican until the point where they have enough money to really have serious influence in policy making. At that point, big government is a handy tool. 

As people of color climb the economic ladder, it's not unrealistic to expect the same pattern to hold. 

[Emilie Jolie]

“

Quote

Difficulties over segregation and discrimination exist in every city, in every state of the union, producing in many cities a rising tide of discontent that threatens the public safety. Nor is this a partisan issue. In a time of domestic crisis, men of good will and generosity should be able to unite regardless of party or politics. This is not even a legal or legislative issue alone. It is better to settle these matters in the courts than on the streets, and new laws are needed at every level, but law alone cannot make men see right. We are confronted primarily with a moral issue. It is as old as the Scriptures and is as clear as the American Constitution.”

JFK - 1964 Civil Rights Address.

That's a president who gets it.

 

[sothereiwas]

3 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

JFK - 1964 Civil Rights Address.

All parties voted in favor of the 1964 civil rights act. In fact:

"The House passed the bill after 70 days of public hearings and testimony in a 290-130 vote. The bill received 152 “yea” votes from Democrats, or 60 percent of their party, and 138 votes from Republicans, or 78 percent of their party. .... About 82 percent of Republicans in the Senate voted for the bill, as did 69 percent of Democrats."

The more you know eh? 

Maybe JFK was trying to sell it to his own party ....

[Emilie Jolie]

 

25 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

The more you know eh? 

Never mind...

 

[Piddy]

1 hour ago, sothereiwas said:

All parties voted in favor of the 1964 civil rights act. In fact:

"The House passed the bill after 70 days of public hearings and testimony in a 290-130 vote. The bill received 152 “yea” votes from Democrats, or 60 percent of their party, and 138 votes from Republicans, or 78 percent of their party. .... About 82 percent of Republicans in the Senate voted for the bill, as did 69 percent of Democrats."

The more you know eh? 

Maybe JFK was trying to sell it to his own party ....

The only reason it passed was because of LBJ who cajoled (more like bullied) the southern Dems into voting for it.  You see, back then there were a lot of racist Dems especially in the south called the Dixiecrats.

They had to be convinced into voting for it.  That's where the line from LBJ comes from (that the Dems have lost the south for a generation).So, be careful what era you're talking about when talking Democrats and Republicans.  

Edited June 18, 2020 by Piddy

[Ellener]

In our city news yesterday:

A far-right extremist movement born on social media and fueled by anti-government rhetoric has emerged as a real-world threat in recent weeks, with federal authorities accusing some of its adherents of allegedly working to spark violence at largely peaceful protests roiling the nation.

At a time when President Donald Trump and other top U.S. officials have claimed - with little evidence - that leftist groups were fomenting violence, federal prosecutors have charged various supporters of a right-wing group, which calls itself "the Boogaloo Bois," with crimes related to plotting to firebomb a U.S. Forest Service facility, preparing to use explosives at a peaceful demonstration and killing a security officer at a federal courthouse.

Prosecutors even successfully argued before a federal magistrate in Texas over the weekend that a drug possession suspect with alleged Boogaloo ties should be denied bond because Facebook and Instagram posts he'd made advocating violence against National Guardsmen and threatening to kill looters showed he was a "threat to the community."

The Boogaloo are more of a violent anti-government ideology than a formal movement, say those who study extremist groups. They say they cannot identify a leader, headquarters or command structure, just loosely affiliated social media pages ranging from explicitly violent to merely commercial, peddling Boogaloo-themed merchandise.

But the visibility of Boogaloo supporters at recent protests - dressed in trademark Hawaiian shirts and carrying assault rifles - had alarmed researchers who for months had warned about the danger the group posed.

Now federal prosecutors in California, Texas, Nevada and Colorado appear to be endorsing those concerns with a series of criminal charges against self-described Boogaloo supporters, whose arrests often were accompanied by the seizure of weapons and explosives.