Wife suggest us living apart now texting ex lover

[Fre1978]

Dear all

Complicated to write this in short but will try. 
Main question is how to respond to my wife now texting ex lover on whatsapp with sexual references. 
Start forties. Have been together 9 years. 2 smaller children. We have had a number of issues my wife had diagnosed depression several times in continuation of births, still some problems with anxiety but not much. However, she quit her job due to stress 1,5 years ago and keeps blaming me on Weekly basis that I was the reason she had to skip the job and now I have ruined her career. I strongly disagree with this since I believe I went out of my way to support her in her job, taking the kids and so on. But as to that we apparently have to dissgree, this has been discussed too long. She has not been motivated to seek a new job for a while now living on my income entirely which is just possible (I do have a high income now) but in the long run not sustainable. Some months ago I found out totally be chance that she had created several dating profiler however she apparently did not write with anybody. I confronted her immidiately and she explained she felt lonesome and bored which I understood. I immediately organized marriage counselling which we had for a number of weeks and after this things calmed down a little... I never used to check my wifes correspondance but became suspicious. Since she regularly checks my own phone mail and Facebook conversations without asking (which I find okay) I started to make a few checks after the dating sites incident. Then I found out she had been texting her ex lover several times over the last year complaining about me. I thought this was over after marriage councelling, but now she started texting him again with even more specific sexual references to their past. While the first contact to him a year ago or so could be explained by beeing frustrated over life in general, this time I feel that she is just asking for a romantic conversation, and she got it. At the same time she has several times played with the idea that one of us should move out with the kids while staying married, however this is totally impossible seen from her side in reality. Despite my job she is very demanding and needs me being present all the time, she still (as of yesterday) hates when I have to stay an hour late at work and strongly disagree whenever I leave on a short business trip (which happens rarely). We are very much attached all the time due to the kids and sex life use to work out well until the dating site incident, now only occasionally.

Well that was the background. My main worry right now is what to do with this new romantic conversation she has. Its actually an ex lover since 10 years ago, before we met/married
thanks in advance. 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

How old are these smaller children???

 

Far too often people in your shoes are not thinking/understanding clearly  that your stay-at-home wives NEED ADULT INTERACTION of the most simple and innocent kind.

 

It's great to be the bread-winner, but when everything else is taking 2nd place to that, your wife is getting the short end of the arrangement.

 

IF, say, she were with her SISTER (real, or made-up) all day...  that would be one thing...  but there is only SO MUCH  Ernie and Bert conversation an adult should be made to have.

 

You, taking the kids for hours at night... and letting her go out into the pre-Covid world (would have been grand)...

 

Or you...  stopping the bread machine...  WITH INTENT...     and interacting WITH her... (rather than haranguing her on a routine basis)  upon your arrival home each night...

 

would have been the right move.

 

 

Maybe you should take the kids... and stay home for a weekend, while the wife gets to go visit...  (family in the next state ?)  for that weekend... and you'll then start to sense how psychologically draining it can be to have nothing but child interaction for hours on end.

 

I first suspect that it has been your (taking her for granted, there at home all the time, with the kids),  which has nudged her toward whatever she can get  in the way of normal adult verbal interaction.

 

Now you might be a saint, and the wife a devil...     but...   prove that to us here with something more than you've shared.

 

(I can feel all of the key vibes  to support this first instinct of mine)

[Fre1978]

Hi there kids are 4 and 6 and they are in School /daycare most of the time that I am at away from home. Problem is my wife was not really motivated to go to work. I fully agree on your analyses that its not good to stay at home without interaction but she does have job opportunities she has turned down because of lack of energy.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Fre1978

[schlumpy]

I'm sorry but your life as you know it and want it - is over.

Use whatever excuse makes you feel better, but you have plenty of evidence that your wife is checking out of the marriage. That means she is detaching herself emotionally from you and it will eventually seem as if you are living with a stranger. You will no longer be able to predict her reactions and decisions because they will be formed thinking only of herself and without a thought for you and the kids. That leaves you at a hell of a disadvantage. Your feelings for her will constantly betray you and keep you from making the correct choices that will reduce the level of pain your family is going to experience.

If you have close extended family, you could seek their help in turning your wife from the path she is willfully treading. They need to know what is happening and if willing, can help with the kids and keep an eye on your wife. What she is doing demands secrecy and darkness. Don't allow her to have it. She won't like it, that's for sure, but there is a chance she can be brought back if exposed early.  Please expect that she will be furious and blame you for dragging others into what should be a private problem. Just one more fault she can hang around your neck as she builds a case in her mind as to why she is justified in leaving the marriage.

Marriage counseling will not do you any good if she is actively seeking an affair. Individual Therapy (IC) is more acceptable and may point her in the right direction.

You have to avoid doing the "pick me dance." Usually that involves an already ongoing affair where you would compete against her lover by doing everything you can to show her that she should choose you over him. She gets the best of both worlds and has no pressure to choose otherwise. Since there is no lover you are instead competing with a fantasy in her mind of how good it's going to feel and be when she attains her freedom. The only thing that's holding her back right now is guilt, but she will soon find enough things wrong with you and the marriage to overcome that last defense.

The next step for her is the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech. It's almost like they read it from a script.

Look up a program called the 180. It can be found at various relationship websites. I always suggest the chump lady but it's available in many places. It's a list of things to do so that you detach emotionally from you wife and your situation. This should allow you to make decisions that are in your family's best interest.

The strategy is to decide what you want in your marriage and let your wife know where the boundaries are and what the consequences are for crossing those boundaries. Do not do this if you will not follow through. For if you are bluffing, you will find yourself in a worse place than before.

See a lawyer and find out what your options are. It shouldn't be a secret. You want her to know that you are prepared and she won't be able to blind-side you.

Do not allow her to talk you into separation for "Space." Separation can work for some couples but it can also be used to get the spouse out of the way so the affair can commence or continue. I suggest you skip that and go right to divorce. It's in your best interest.

The option you are giving her will be divorce or work on the marriage. There is nothing in-between. You have nothing to lose. She was going to leave anyway. She doesn't get to have her affair and pretend she will come back and be the best wife she could ever be to you for the rest of your life. There will be no future where you will say something inane like, "I know it's funny, but my wife's affair brought us closer together then we ever could have been."

There are of course other options that depend on the type of person you are. You could consider an open marriage. There is always swinging. You could just turn a blind eye to her affairs. Lots of couples do that. If her having sex outside of your marriage isn't that traumatic then it's possible you can stay. Some men are ok with a part time wife. People always surprise me as to what they are willing to abide.

I think you have a good chance of saving your marriage if you act now. Just make damn sure that whatever demands are on the table, you have the willpower to backup.

Good luck

 

[Mrin]

Oh Hell no. Your marriage is over. I'm.sorry. It just is. 

[Fre1978]

Thanks for honest and thorough response, just to complete this, I am indeed fighting with a fantasy since the ex lover is in another country 2000 Miles away and not likely to show up soon. I am in Europe. Of course I could be wrong and also she may seek another affair with someone nearby.

But you think I should confront her with the conmunication I have read with the ex lover I suppose, the only way she will know the seriousness???? And so I should  say something like I read your communication with ex (although she reads my mail this will be a surprise) I want you to work on the marriage or divorce???? 

As you write kids involved - it is not easy. But as you say unless I support an open marriage I should give her the ultimatum if she does not follow through and does a real effort, I should ask her to move or myself move out of the house...open marriage.... I will surely have problems with this although it will not be impossible for me find lovers on my part however I am still very much in love with her. And I aldo have the idea that she reacts due to boredom and unemployment. 
I really appreciate your responses, thanks

 

 

[Zona]

The reason she wants to separate is so that she can spend more time in contact with her ex without you around. Cheating women use this as a way to ease their guilt by saying to themselves it is OK because they are "separated" from their husbands.

Honestly, the best thing you can do is stop begging her to break it off with him. Tell her that her behavior is not something you can accept and then have her served with divorce papers, and then only communicate with her about finances and kids. You may want to expose her to her parents and other family members too. Those are really the only things that have a chance to burst the fantasy bubble she is living in. Doing the pick me dance has zero chance of succeeding  and just makes you look weak in her eyes.

If she is OK with the divorce and doesn't stop her contact with loverboy, then you have your answer. The marriage is over. Sorry man. It sucks.

 

[d0nnivain]

She's done.  She know longer cares about you or your marriage.  She is treating you like a chump -- sponging off you, cheating behind your back.  

I suspect on some level she just wants attention but at unrealistic levels:  you 24/7 quitting your job & just staying home with her but that doesn't pay the bills.  

[schlumpy]

2 hours ago, Fre1978 said:

But you think I should confront her with the conmunication I have read with the ex lover I suppose, the only way she will know the seriousness???? And so I should  say something like I read your communication with ex (although she reads my mail this will be a surprise) I want you to work on the marriage or divorce???? 

As you write kids involved - it is not easy. 

 

 

I guess you could show her the communication with her ex if you want to. Her response will most likely be to lie or minimize it. Usually it's not recommended to lay your evidence on the table unless it overwhelming not explain to the wayward where you got it. That they know you have evidence is enough. Even then some waywards will deny.

I can't predict how your wife will react or what setting you should do this in. You know her and for the moment you should still be able to predict her reaction. That will get less likely the longer you wait.

The main thing is to know what you want and not allow her to derail you with some grievance from the past, or her imaginary interpretation on how you are treating her, etc....

You lay out a reasonable scenario and she accepts or she doesn't. Then you have to act.

I did not write about your children because I assume that you will include their welfare in any decision you make. If you want to stay for the kids sake that's up to you. From what I have read, it rarely works and many people lose years from their lives because of it. I think if you can get a good co-parenting relationship out of the divorce then that's much better then your kids growing up with the resentment and tension that is going to be in your household. They are also young enough that they will adapt quickly.

Be aware that if your WS feels hard pressed she may play the children against you.

Don't be the support system for her affair. Let her cheat on her dime.

And please feel some anger at her. Anger is good emotion when it protects form someone that wishes you harm.

[Crazelnut]

Yeah, sorry, but your marriage is essentially over.  I wouldn't bother to show her the messages. Just inform her that you know she's been disrespecting you and sexting with another man. After the first time she disrespected you, you gave her a chance & even went to MC with her. But she blew that chance and you won't support her while she cheats on you. Once you tell her that, go see a lawyer. 

[Fre1978]

Really appreciate all of your answers, for taking your time supporting. 
D0Nnivains comment is really spot on in the sense that she does in fact require my attention 24/7 mostly due to the kids but also because she has problems of all kinds she wants me to listen to. I do so because I am her husband and still in love with her and find her attractive. However at the same time I have had and still have a respected careeer/position in the public sector. Although all in our extended family would agree this is buls@@@ she keeps blaming me I have spoiler HER career, she says that I should be home now and let her work. This is a fantasy because I have really supported her whenever she had a job. She says however I should do this for her but she does not take any initiatives to seek a job and make arrangements with the kids easier. What I still dont understand is why does she cheat and want to leave me when on the other hand she wants me 24/7 for emotional support???

[pepperbird]

yeah, I did that stay at home parent thing too for a lot of years. It's not always an easy road to travel, but it's no excuse for cheating.

OP, it may not be an easy conversation to have, but I would suggest you sit down with your wife and put all the cards on the table. Your feelings are valid, and they matter Sure, she may be stuck at home along all day - so was I. So are lots of stay at home moms and dads. The thing is, when we were in need of adult contact, we didn't look up an ex. We didn't make online dating profiles because we were "lonely".
We joined a club, got involved in a parenting circle or drop in playgroup. We go to the park to meet other moms or dads. Unless her kids are below five, they're probably in school for at least part of the day anyway, so mommy dearest here certainly has time to get off her behind and either get a part time job or if she finds that's too stressful, she can volunteer. There's literally hundreds of orgs. out there who need a helping hand, and it can be a great way to meet new people while doing something useful.

Whatever happens OP, you have every right to say what you will and will not accept from your spouse. Right now, she's playing you for a schmuck. Don't do that. If she's really living with depression, she should see a psychiatrist or therapist and get treatment, especially as she has two kids who need her to be in top form. 

If this is "boredom", that's a crock of you know what. If she's that bored and has time to flirt online and look up her exes, she has time to work, join a group or do something.
 

[pepperbird]

23 minutes ago, Fre1978 said:

Really appreciate all of your answers, for taking your time supporting. 
D0Nnivains comment is really spot on in the sense that she does in fact require my attention 24/7 mostly due to the kids but also because she has problems of all kinds she wants me to listen to. I do so because I am her husband and still in love with her and find her attractive. However at the same time I have had and still have a respected careeer/position in the public sector. Although all in our extended family would agree this is buls@@@ she keeps blaming me I have spoiler HER career, she says that I should be home now and let her work. This is a fantasy because I have really supported her whenever she had a job. She says however I should do this for her but she does not take any initiatives to seek a job and make arrangements with the kids easier. What I still dont understand is why does she cheat and want to leave me when on the other hand she wants me 24/7 for emotional support???

what would happen if you put your kids unto childcare, at least part time? That way, she could go back to work. Even if she just earns enough to cover the cost for day care, it could be worth it to her mental health.
If you make this offer and she jumps on it, she may be telling the truth about her feelings. If she keeps finding more excuses, you know what she's full of, and it's not roses and sunshine.lol.

Edited June 6, 2020 by pepperbird

[d0nnivain]

20 minutes ago, Fre1978 said:

 why does she cheat and want to leave me when on the other hand she wants me 24/7 for emotional support???

She's unhappy with her life & is punishing you. 

If you actually think she'd tow the line again & be faithful in your marriage if she can get a job, do some research into child care costs & show her how much money she will need to earn to justify the cost.  Then support her with career coaching, a resume service, a new interview suit whatever she needs.  If you do that but she doesn't lift a finger to participate, you have to accept that she's done.  

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, Fre1978 said:

Really appreciate all of your answers, for taking your time supporting. 
D0Nnivains comment is really spot on in the sense that she does in fact require my attention 24/7 mostly due to the kids but also because she has problems of all kinds she wants me to listen to. I do so because I am her husband and still in love with her and find her attractive.

Not sure if this ever got brought up in counseling, but it sounds like she may have "insecure attachment". I agree with others she's checking out and that what she's done is a form of cheating. I suspect that if you attempt to separate/divorce she will have a very hard time with that or may throw herself into another relationship to "replace you" extremely quickly. She may not think of it that way consciously, but IMO that's what will be going on there. Of course I could be wrong, but I suspect that's what will happen. Another possibility that comes to mind is that since she has been interested in cheating herself, she worries that you may be trying to do that as well.

[jolehno]

Please OP, listen to the good advice here. Surely it may sound as over the top to hear that your marriage is over, and surely is not now, but if you do not  something now, it will be. The need to be with you 24/7, the depression, the reluctance to seek a job (Could be insecurity) the blaming you for her supposedly failed career, her fantasize  and the emotional cheating, all ring a bell to me as something called BPD. Check this online and make an appointment with a psychologist (woman)  thats  familiar with this behaviour.  Also, as somebody said up there, interacting only with children could be exhausting for some. But above all, do something now, your whole life as you know it, is in danger.

[Fre1978]

Thanks again for your replies this is very helpful indeed and it has given me alot to think about also as to BPD, will take it all with me. Right now I just feel something between anger and hurt - it is not good but due to all the stuff in the above my first reaction is in fact to think about cheating myself to punish or make it even. Not good, but anyway I will surely reflect on all this, it has been so helpful to share this inner frustration here, thanks community.

[Gr8fuln2020]

20 hours ago, pepperbird said:

what would happen if you put your kids unto childcare, at least part time? That way, she could go back to work. Even if she just earns enough to cover the cost for day care, it could be worth it to her mental health.
If you make this offer and she jumps on it, she may be telling the truth about her feelings. If she keeps finding more excuses, you know what she's full of, and it's not roses and sunshine.lol.

The kids are in childcare at least part of the day while he is at work. 

Quote

Hi there kids are 4 and 6 and they are in School /daycare most of the time that I am at away from home.

OP, has your wife been in therapy? 

In any event, as others have said, this relationship is essentially over. She wants some time to do her own thing and her not getting a job, blaming you, are all responses to her miserable state with you. She wants out, but with small children and some uncertainty, she is trying to drive you to make the break. 

Is your wife a good mother? How does she feel about the children? Even you considering an open-marriage is another indication that it is over. Right? I wonder if she were given this time away that, how she react to her being away from the children? 

[Fre1978]

Gr8fulness2020 - thanks. No, I did not consider an open marriage, however I feel that I have been somehow neglected for a long time and this texting/sexting made me sad and angry and exhausted - it is not too rational but I thought of cheating as a revenge or an escape out of current mysery. I cannot say that I believe the marriage is essentially over. This may be naive, but you have to understand, she does not want  me to leave the house, she is eg frustrated that I have to leave her to go to work after lifting of corona restrictions. She demands my attention all the time when I am home. She thinks I should spend more time with her and the kids even though my work schedule is very flexible. Today I went to a business meeting and I had to leave relatively early to catch that. This was important but she kept asking me whether this meeting was really necessary. She took our oldest one to School but Said she did not have the energi to bring our youngest one to day care therefore he stayed home with her, and she was blaming me for leaving early so I could not bring him to daycare. I suggested we all woke up half an hour earlier than usual and then I could take him to daycare before my business meeting but she refused that idea and she said that we should not change the time our kids woke up. This is okay and she is a very good mother, but after a whole day with our youngest she will be very tired and inclined to blame me that I did not skip the in-her-opinion not necessary business meeting. To sum up: we are together all the time, we do not see many other people together, she writes to friends and she probably complains about me. She has a theory that I have the Asperges syndrom in my opinion mainly due to the fact that my job requires that I do a lot of ‘brain‘ work, I am almost famous for it here. Although I do agree that it could be an advantage for me to be a better listener (I am an executive and have asked to take a course on better communication with my subordinates) I do not agree on the diagnosis and the therapist did not share my wifes opinion at all. Problem is, she keeps looking for mistakes with me although she hates to be away from me, she texts this other guy and at the same time I have to act extremely carefully if ever I want to go out with a friend for a beer. I can never do this spontously in the evenings while the kids sleep, even though I tell her its important for my social life. She says she is stressed if the the kids wake up and she is the sole patent - on the other hand she decides to meet up with a girlfriend with a few hours notice. If I talk about equal standards she says I get plenty of social life through my work. 
This all sounds quite annoying and so it is, however aside from the fact that she ofren lacks energy she is very good with the kids  and as I wrote she is a an attractive woman and I am still in love with her. Since at the same time she wants me to stay home with her all the time, albeit with hints to of divorce, I find myself in an emotional almost impossible situation. I really do not want to leave her and break up my family but I find it also not sustainable if the sexting remains. For me its a paradox the way she treats me...because she really hate it when I am out of the house...Anyhow I do believe that I eventually will have the strenght to give her an ultimatum, I just do not know if it is the right thing to do.

 

 

 

 

 

[jolehno]

Sorry, double post

Edited June 8, 2020 by jolehno
Repeated

[jolehno]

Read "I hate you, dont leave me" it probably will ring a bell. Be patient, just until you untangle her behaviour.

[jolehno]

Sorry, posting from movile and bad connection!

Edited June 8, 2020 by jolehno
Double post

[Blind-Sided]

On 6/5/2020 at 9:58 PM, Fre1978 said:

....... However, she quit her job due to stress 1,5 years ago and keeps blaming me on Weekly basis that I was the reason she had to skip the job and now I have ruined her career. I strongly disagree with this since I believe I went out of my way to support her in her job, taking the kids and so on.

Everyone above is right.  Being at home, with the kids all the time, isn't easy. BUT... unless you are truly keeping her at home, and not letting her out... then.............

This brings me to the real point, and the part I separated out of your post... A wayward wife... or a wife with depression/mental issues LOVES to play the blame game.  She will not take responsibility for it, and make you the bad guy to justify what she is doing. (in her own mind)  In your case... she should have taken responsibility for being at home, and quitting her job... and then either found a new job, or at least gone out with friends in the evening and/or weekends.  But... since she can't be the "Bad guy" in her own mind... she will blame you for her actions. 

The other point that some of the other people have mentioned is... she wants to separate, so 1) she can see her new BF without you seeing it.  and 2) she can say she is "Separated" to the guy so she doesn't feel like it's cheating.  

Finally... as said above... there is NO RATIONAL reason to cheat in a marriage. She is mentally done... so she needs to just leave. 

Lets face it... you have talked with her... you have gone to counselling... she is clinically depressed... and she is actively looking for someone else to be with.  Even if you continue to work on it... she will continue with an EA until she finds a PA. 

It's time to just file for divorce, and show the proof that she is cheating, and is unwilling to work.  

Good luck. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[Crazelnut]

So what I hear you saying is that aren't going to do anything. Your wife is mentally ill and refuses to address it. She's having an EA with an ex. And you are going to do what? Enable it? This is going to be your life unless you give her a clear choice: get help and commit to me/the marriage or I'm out of here.