Gifted talent and no confidence to pull it off

[Fox Sake]

Okay... here goes. This is the first time in my life I’m actually opening up about this and seeking help. 

I have a real issue with myself.
I’m musically gifted. I’ve been offered some really big breaks before now that would have changed my life, and I’ve turned down every single one. Doing some other pretty crazy careers instead , but it’s not music .... 

It’s like I’m shy with it or something. My voice closes  up and even playing some deep meaningful instrumental parts can be challenging in public, which has become far less often if at all, in the last 10 years apart from family and close friends. 

I don’t have the confidence in myself to pull it off , even tho I know I’m pretty good. I have it in my head that people are just telling me what I want to hear. I know that’s not the case, but I can’t convince myself otherwise at times. Even writing this out now, I’m like “what’s the issue?!” 

My music has always been something very personal to me. It’s like an expression of raw emotion. Doesn’t matter if it’s blues, folk, soul or country ... I’m shy with it and I guess feel vulnerable. Which is stupid I know. 
 

I’m constantly criticising myself and don’t think I’m as good as I am. I’m not sure if it goes back to school, when my choir master refused to give me a choir badge. Kept telling me I wasn’t good enough, despite keeping me in the choir and taking me on the school tours. He didn’t like me , I realise this now and he often reported me as I was a bit of wayward kid and never really fitted in. 
But at 12 years old in a mixed sex boarding school, things that are said to you can have a lasting effect and I think it’s where the damage started. I rebelled HARD after that for the rest of my school years.
I suffered a lot of bullying on my name. Which is now frickin awesome and would see me well in the music industry to stand out aside from my music.  

At that point I wasn’t playing an instrument that I wanted to learn. I finally got an acoustic guitar at the age of 14 and taught myself for the last 20 years. It’s what I wanted since I was a kid. 

I started going to open mic nights in another city. At 17 I was asked if I would record. I turned it down. And almost every single year since,  the opportunities have gotten more and more and it’s now at the point of a very well known band around the world , one of their wives, who is a good friend of mine,  asked me to come down and spend a weekend in the studio . I turned it down, scared about expressing my music emotion, and thinking I would be criticised. 
Stupid of me right? She’s knows all about my music and has heard many pieces. So why would she invite me down to criticise me?! I know the Logic behind it is stupid. 
 

In other parts of life I’m not shy, I’m quietly confident. Pretty chilled out and laid back. 
 

I had some things planned last year in another country to attend uni , nothing to do with music. I promised my friend that if for whatever reason it fell through, i would focus on music and take it as a sign.  . Well guess what? My best laid plans fell through.
 

Today my friend told me as I was playing some new blues rag I had just come up with , “I would say don’t quit your day job, but on this occasion I would be wrong”.  I don’t play In front of him very often , but today I did. It reminded me that I need to sort this out with myself. 
I didn’t sing in front of him, I very rarely do and the only times in public, have been on takes I’ve done on my phone and posted to YouTube or Facebook. I was bowled over with compliments , but then I think people are just trying to be nice. 
 

I so badly want this. I have things I want to share.  But I just can’t find it in me. I don’t know if my confidence is fake or not ...I don’t think it is, but if I was truly confident then surely that would spill into my music too? 
 

I’ve shared a few things on YouTube and and Facebook before now. Both with great results. I just always think everyone’s compliments are BS “wow I’m not gay mate, but I love your voice!” 
How can I not take that as a genuine complement from another musician.  It’s like I’m my own worst enemy with it. 
 

Please, if anyone can relate or knows how I can change this, I’m open to anything. 
I do not want to be 70 one day, regretting that I didn’t do it because I was worried about what people would think of me... I just don’t get it. 
 

 
 

 

[snowcones]

Try Reddit

Edited June 7, 2020 by snowcones

[Fox Sake]

2 minutes ago, snowcones said:

Try Reddit

Sorry? I asked for advice and you’re pushing me off to another website ... class.
I should have kept this to myself..

And on that note, I’m off to bed. 

[snowcones]

1 minute ago, Fox Sake said:

Sorry? I asked for advice and you’re pushing me off to another website ... class.
I should have kept this to myself..

And on that note, I’m off to bed. 

I wasn't pushing you off, I was suggesting something.  To try posting your music on Reddit. I had a cat crawling all over me and my keyboard and couldn't type.   I wasn't criticizing you, I don't even know you nor have I heard your stuff.  The thing is, you said that no matter what people say that's positive, you think they are BS-ing you.  They will give it to you straight on Reddit.  They are brutally honest there.  It could be a way for you to test the waters.  If they like your stuff there, then you're probably safe anywhere.  I would tell you to post it here, but you probably wouldn't believe us either.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I guess you're off to bed by now so you'll get this in the morning if you sign back on.

You mentioned you have a friend who is married to a person who is in a well known band. How about you tell your friend about your fears? Can you do that? Maybe show her your OP. Then they make work through this issue with you. It sounds to me as if you have a lot to offer and could have a music career. You have to go for it, I say!

[preraph]

I was in the music business on the business end of it for 20 years. I often counseled musicians..

 

It is necessary for you to jump off that cliff and summon everything in you and give it your all in a public performance. There was a whole book dedicated to the notion that you pretty much have to be a narcissist to become a celebrity in entertainment, and it's not far off the mark. The most dynamic people and entertainers put it all out there.

 

I write, and I know how personal it is to share your art, whatever it is. Getting out there on stage and singing lyrics you wrote is quite a bit like selling your soul. I've talked to quite a few musicians who felt at times that they were prostitutes. 

 

They write songs that are so personal. Of course there's always poetic license, so they have to deal with people misinterpreting or getting mad and thinking everything is literal, more critical old friends criticizing them for being high and mighty, and trying to use them different ways. 

 

Being a public musician is a vocation you pursue if there is no other thing you can see yourself doing and be happy about it. the best musicians I've known never felt they had a choice whether to pursue music. Now that didn't stop most of them from taking a day job for as long as they had to. 

 

But the best musicians and the ones that have a chance of making it are driven and they're willing to make any changes necessary to make it work..

 

Now if you don't want to shoot for the Moon and make a big spectacle of yourself, it seems to me that you should be able to get used to playing in the studio or in private jam sessions with frends. All kinds of people can do that and you can set your own limitations. 

 

But the people who are really going to rise to the top are willing to stand before people they grew up with who used to give them wedgies in school and give it everything they've got and shrug off the detractors. You have to have a vision of who you want to be and start being that person. You have to create that person out of yourself. That's how you become your best self. 

 

You have to want to pretty bad.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by preraph

[Fox Sake]

8 hours ago, snowcones said:

I wasn't pushing you off, I was suggesting something.  To try posting your music on Reddit. I had a cat crawling all over me and my keyboard and couldn't type.   I wasn't criticizing you, I don't even know you nor have I heard your stuff.  The thing is, you said that no matter what people say that's positive, you think they are BS-ing you.  They will give it to you straight on Reddit.  They are brutally honest there.  It could be a way for you to test the waters.  If they like your stuff there, then you're probably safe anywhere.  I would tell you to post it here, but you probably wouldn't believe us either.

Ah ...s***...sorry. I’m really sorry.   ... it was obviously too late for my brain to be working. I can’t be doing with these 4am bedtimes lol 

I thought you were pushing me to Reddit , which is normally just full of memes and people getting dragged. I didn’t realise there was more to that place. 

I would love to post here , but I think that will give people too much information on me... worried about my anonymity. Maybe I will tho and I’ll just record a video or something. Not sure how to do that but I’ll try with a fresh instrumental piece. 
funnily enough, I know that people here are very honest. No one ever tells you what you “want to hear” and I appreciate it for that. It’s what pulled me through a nasty breakup 11 years ago- people in LS.  Thank you  

Edited June 7, 2020 by Fox Sake

[Fox Sake]

8 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

I guess you're off to bed by now so you'll get this in the morning if you sign back on.

You mentioned you have a friend who is married to a person who is in a well known band. How about you tell your friend about your fears? Can you do that? Maybe show her your OP. Then they make work through this issue with you. It sounds to me as if you have a lot to offer and could have a music career. You have to go for it, I say!

It will take more than that to keep me off LS! 
 

I have told me friend about my fears. She says they’re unfounded and has tried very hard to motivate me for many years. She even threatened to drop our friendship if I didn’t sort it out (she was kidding) , but I will send her my OP , maybe she doesn’t realise it’s such an issue for me as it is. 
Thank you for writing that and offering me your advice. I’m taking everyone’s comments on board. A lot has changed in life recently and maybe it’s the corner that needed turning to make things better 

[Fox Sake]

8 hours ago, preraph said:

I was in the music business on the business end of it for 20 years. I often counseled musicians..

 

It is necessary for you to jump off that cliff and summon everything in you and give it your all in a public performance. There was a whole book dedicated to the notion that you pretty much have to be a narcissist to become a celebrity in entertainment, and it's not far off the mark. The most dynamic people and entertainers put it all out there.

 

I write, and I know how personal it is to share your art, whatever it is. Getting out there on stage and singing lyrics you wrote is quite a bit like selling your soul. I've talked to quite a few musicians who felt at times that they were prostitutes. 

 

They write songs that are so personal. Of course there's always poetic license, so they have to deal with people misinterpreting or getting mad and thinking everything is literal, more critical old friends criticizing them for being high and mighty, and trying to use them different ways. 

 

Being a public musician is a vocation you pursue if there is no other thing you can see yourself doing and be happy about it. the best musicians I've known never felt they had a choice whether to pursue music. Now that didn't stop most of them from taking a day job for as long as they had to. 

 

But the best musicians and the ones that have a chance of making it are driven and they're willing to make any changes necessary to make it work..

 

Now if you don't want to shoot for the Moon and make a big spectacle of yourself, it seems to me that you should be able to get used to playing in the studio or in private jam sessions with frends. All kinds of people can do that and you can set your own limitations. 

 

But the people who are really going to rise to the top are willing to stand before people they grew up with who used to give them wedgies in school and give it everything they've got and shrug off the detractors. You have to have a vision of who you want to be and start being that person. You have to create that person out of yourself. That's how you become your best self. 

 

You have to want to pretty bad.

 

 

Wow raph... I think you just hit the nail on the head there. 
I’m extremely aware of the self and the ego. Narcissistic behaviour is not my thing, even more so because I know I’m okay looking and I don’t want to be “one of those people” , I always cringe when I see people flinging their egos around and I think there is something to be said for practicing being humble. 
Which is kind of contradicting considering I’m a true Leo and should be putting myself out there all the time. But I’m a sensitive soul. 
 

I agree with your whole post, but I feel like you’ve touched on something there that is where the issue underlies. I wonder why I didn’t think of that ...  and how the hell do I start to tackle it without becoming one of those who maniacs 

[preraph]

Those people who appear to have big egos and strutting about, it ought to be and sometimes is because they really are that great and not ashamed of it. That's a star. 

[snowcones]

It's true.  I saw an old throw-back home video of pimply-faced Chris Martin from Cold Play talking when he was in college about how big and famous his band was going to be one day.  He said, "You just watch".  He knew they were that good and everyone would love them.

Edited June 7, 2020 by snowcones

[preraph]

Got to have that vision and something to back it up with and the willingness to do what it takes.

[Fox Sake]

3 hours ago, preraph said:

Those people who appear to have big egos and strutting about, it ought to be and sometimes is because they really are that great and not ashamed of it. That's a star. 

I used to think like this....
Until ego is something I became aware of in my late teens. I was pulled up on it , and after meeting other people who just came across as cocky and clearly had an overinflated sense of self, I didn’t want to be like that. I did envy their blissful unawareness of how they came across tho. 
I thought “imagine loving yourself that much and thinking you’re that great, but really you sound totally self absorbed, I bet that’s how people used to view me” 

The Ego and The Self are enemies. 

I think the best way is I’ll wait until I can send PM’s to a few folk here with a link to some of my music and I’ll take it from there. 

 

@snowcones

I have typical imposter syndrome and that goes for many areas of my life, not just music. My previous and current career too. Even tho I’m qualified to the highest standard with years of experience...  it drives me mad sometimes 

 

2 hours ago, snowcones said:

It's true.  I saw an old throw-back home video of pimply-faced Chris Martin from Cold Play talking when he was in college about how big and famous his band was going to be one day.  He said, "You just watch".  He knew they were that good and everyone would love them.It’s my own self belief that trips me up.

[preraph]

You don't have to be like that, and I wouldn't recommend any adult behave like any teen, quite honestly, because teens do not know what they're doing.

[Fox Sake]

6 hours ago, preraph said:

You don't have to be like that, and I wouldn't recommend any adult behave like any teen, quite honestly, because teens do not know what they're doing.

I would hate to be like that raph.

A cover done in 2010, so nothing personal  ... It sounds remarkably like my voice 10 years ago too. Such a coincidence ..Maybe doesn’t show everything to the best of this guys ability cos, well, 10 years have passed and it’s just a cover- vocal and not instrument orientated either this one.  Enough to pass judgment on tho I’m sure. 

Old era recording so headphones recommended. 
It sounds like a computer mic was used and it couldn’t keep up at times 😅 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MsJayne]

I'm hearin' ya.  I play the guitar and have a good voice, but zero confidence in my ability, and I can absolutely assure you that I would have preferred a career in music than in accounting. As Preraph said earlier, you have to have a fair bit of narcissism going on to believe in yourself to the extent that you just naturally assume that everyone wants to hear/see you perform. I've known plenty of musical people over the years who have very mediocre talent but genuinely believed they're the next Mozart, and one of my closest friends is a wonderful musician but is too shy to put it out there despite people like me telling him to go for it.  You say your school choir master downplayed your ability, and he probably did. Teachers aren't saints and are just as capable of petty jealousies as the next person.  Your friend told you not to quit your day job, and I suggest you have a hard think about what motivates a person to say something so discouraging.  'Jealousy' is the answer,  the knowledge that you have a natural talent for something that is beyond their ability.  It's better to have a go than wonder what would have happened if you did. Don't let spiteful people influence your perception of yourself, on the contrary, feed your ego on their jealousy and go for it.     

 

[Fox Sake]

18 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

I'm hearin' ya.  I play the guitar and have a good voice, but zero confidence in my ability, and I can absolutely assure you that I would have preferred a career in music than in accounting. As Preraph said earlier, you have to have a fair bit of narcissism going on to believe in yourself to the extent that you just naturally assume that everyone wants to hear/see you perform. I've known plenty of musical people over the years who have very mediocre talent but genuinely believed they're the next Mozart, and one of my closest friends is a wonderful musician but is too shy to put it out there despite people like me telling him to go for it.  You say your school choir master downplayed your ability, and he probably did. Teachers aren't saints and are just as capable of petty jealousies as the next person.  Your friend told you not to quit your day job, and I suggest you have a hard think about what motivates a person to say something so discouraging.  'Jealousy' is the answer,  the knowledge that you have a natural talent for something that is beyond their ability.  It's better to have a go than wonder what would have happened if you did. Don't let spiteful people influence your perception of yourself, on the contrary, feed your ego on their jealousy and go for it.     

 

Thank you for your reply! Nice to know I’m not alone in how I feel there. Does your friend feel like some sort of imposter too? Do you? Or is it purely a lack of confidence? 

For me , I have 2 styles of playing. One is very much instrumental and intricate, designed to pull on your emotions. And the other is very much vocal based with simple tunes. I have no qualms on my instrumental side. But the singing side takes it toll, I guess because my guitar usually does the singing for me and there’s so much to try and fill in with a voice.. 

My friend actually told me to quit my day job. 
“I would usually say don’t quit your day job but on this occasion I would be wrong” 

He was actually very supportive considering I was just picking a blues rag I’ve been making in 8/7 timing l, while the kettle was boiling. It’s what prompted me to open up about this issue, finally. 
 

@preraph I’m waiting on an Admin to approve my last post. .. it’s not the best of anything, by a long way. It’s quite old (2010) but it’s all you’re getting at this moment  it’s vocal based. If that’s good then everything else more recent will be better. 
 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Fox Sake

[preraph]

You have a nice deep voice, and your guitar sounds good. Just based on everything you've told me, I think you'd be most comfortable either doing studio work or being in band. It's a little easier to get up there on stage when you have other people sharing the stage with you. And I'm getting the message you're not really comfortable being the sole focus of attention, so maybe you play guitar for a band and then do backup vocals when needed. 

[MsJayne]

24 minutes ago, Fox Sake said:

Thank you for your reply! Nice to know I’m not alone in how I feel there. Does your friend feel like some sort of imposter too? Do you? Or is it purely a lack of confidence? 

 

Yes, I guess 'impostor' might be a way of putting it. For me, it has a lot to do with the fear that I may be one of those people who everyone wishes would put the instrument down and shut up, hence I prefer to just keep it to myself, but for my friend I think it's just his shyness.  I've always suspected that the reason so many musicians do big time booze and drugs is because it gives them the courage and confidence.  I can go from wallflower to Mick Jagger in about 6 beers, but it's no good strutting about the place warbling with supreme confidence if you're too pissed to play the guitar. 😂

[Fox Sake]

2 minutes ago, preraph said:

You have a nice deep voice, and your guitar sounds good. Just based on everything you've told me, I think you'd be most comfortable either doing studio work or being in band. It's a little easier to get up there on stage when you have other people sharing the stage with you. And I'm getting the message you're not really comfortable being the sole focus of attention, so maybe you play guitar for a band and then do backup vocals when needed. 

Thank you... that’s probably the second worst recording I have too, and also the second oldest ,so I appreciate your honesty. 
 

I agree , studio work is the way to go. I don’t mind being the centre of attention, But also very aware of it at the same time ...my own music can occasionally make me emotional when singing. I put too much into it and need to detach my emotions a bit.  If I was in a band I would have to run the show. It would have to be my band , my music, done my way 

 

[preraph]

It's hard to find a band who will just do whatever you tell them. But if you have to go that route, you just hire them as studio musicians and don't make them an official member of your band, but that is way more expensive been having for people who are all pitching in equal. there are usually always conflicts between the guitarist and the vocalist.

[Fox Sake]

31 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

Yes, I guess 'impostor' might be a way of putting it. For me, it has a lot to do with the fear that I may be one of those people who everyone wishes would put the instrument down and shut up, hence I prefer to just keep it to myself, but for my friend I think it's just his shyness.  I've always suspected that the reason so many musicians do big time booze and drugs is because it gives them the courage and confidence.  I can go from wallflower to Mick Jagger in about 6 beers, but it's no good strutting about the place warbling with supreme confidence if you're too pissed to play the guitar. 😂

Oh I hear you about that fear. ..it’s a horrible feeling isn’t it?  The lack of self belief. The comparing yourself to other people. I’m sitting on SO MUCH music of my own, I could make 2 albums with it all at least. But a cover is for some reason a little easier cos it’s not making yourself so vulnerable by sharing your soul. But it’s not the same  

I get drunk fingers so I don’t ever drink and play! I’ve also just quit a weed habit in the last few months . (Gone from daily to maybe once a month) I have been smoking that crap for years and years. I was most likely high in that video 😄

 I’m certain it’s had an effect on my confidence. I used to be extremely extrovert until maybe 5 years ago.
You’re right about booze and drugs tho giving  confidence. Maybe not the booze , but certainly class A’s.which I’m not into. 
I think it’s easier if you’re in a band tho, cos you all carry each other. If one makes a tiny mistake,  then it’s not the end of the world , but on your own... biggest fear. 

[Fox Sake]

16 minutes ago, preraph said:

It's hard to find a band who will just do whatever you tell them. But if you have to go that route, you just hire them as studio musicians and don't make them an official member of your band, but that is way more expensive been having for people who are all pitching in equal. there are usually always conflicts between the guitarist and the vocalist.

Honestly,  I’m better on my own I think. That’s why I was trying to justify what it would take to be in a band. Not that I have the belief I could carry it off on my own without people thinking I was s*** .. kind of like MsJane said. It’s that fear.
If 8 out of 10 people liked my voice, then I would grasp it. I would take the opportunity’s that I can still get. But I need 10 brutally honest people I don’t know , to be brutally honest whether they like it or not. Cos I would hate to be one of those people who think they could go somewhere with it when they’re actually just crap . 
my singing voice went through a big change 10 years ago. That was one the first songs I recorded with my adult voice. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Fox Sake
Few bits didn’t make sense

[preraph]

If you're going to be on your own then the most important thing is neither voice nor guitar but songwriting. You have to have great songs before anyone wants to listen to you. If you actually have great songs then you might even be better off going the route of a songwriter sense of doesn't sound like you really want to perform live anyway. 

[Fox Sake]

3 minutes ago, preraph said:

If you're going to be on your own then the most important thing is neither voice nor guitar but songwriting. You have to have great songs before anyone wants to listen to you. If you actually have great songs then you might even be better off going the route of a songwriter sense of doesn't sound like you really want to perform live anyway. 

I’m aware of that too, I have a lot of stuff written and stored away. Which I wouldn’t mind sharing at all,  not here tho obviously lol. I was encouraged to do the same thing by someone else if my confidence didn’t pull through.  But it’s the fear of people thinking my voice wasn’t good enough and making my deepest feeling known and leaving me vulnerable. 
 

Raph, I would love to perform live. I just need the confidence to do it and to share my own things. I’ve seen so many lockdown jams , that I could have been a part of. But I was scared