Author Hopeful30 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, Fletch Lives said: Marrying for reasons other than love is a mistake. Relationships take work, and without love, the cookie, you'll eventually get sick of the guy and divorce/breakup. Arranged marriages have a lower divorce rate than marriages for love. Because the relationship is not based on temporary emotions, but permanent qualities and compatibility which are stronger foundations. In the end, love is not enough. I've learned that the hard way. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I always thought that arranged marriages lasted because the culture forbade divorce so they just stayed unhappily together. I don't think that is the answer. As for attraction growing over time, I always needed that instant spark but the long lasting emotional connection, deepened my love & affection for a partner even when the pounds added on, the grey hair appeared & the wrinkles showed up. Hopeful30 as to your best EX, I submit that if he was OK looking enough that you were able to kiss him & more, then I would encourage you view a man like that more generously. Reassess his appearance though the prism of love. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 46 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said: Many couples are in partnerships that are unbalanced, including devoted, committed, and loving partners who are regularly cheated on, abused, or used. I've been in a relationship like that before. You wanna know why? Because I was so desperate for love and gave up hope of ever finding what I deserve. One punch in the face later, I find myself single again wondering why I can't find a man who recognizes my worth and treats me as such. So no, we don't get what we deserve. We get what we accept. I know you probably don't want to hear this, but what you "accept", usually winds up being what you actually deserved.... I'll post some additional thoughts later when I have more time, but that's the long and short of it, for a lot of folks... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hopeful30 Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said: I know you probably don't want to hear this, but what you "accept", usually winds up being what you actually deserved.... I'll post some additional thoughts later when I have more time, but that's the long and short of it, for a lot of folks... TFY That's what the abusive ex said... 4 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said: That's what the abusive ex said... I'm sure the context wasn't the same......its only considered a negative in this case, because of the thoughts in your head and your perceptions...perhaps this is a hurdle you need to overcome, but I don't know, really... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 On 6/8/2020 at 3:54 AM, Hopeful30 said: I have developed the same areas that I would like developed in a man (financially stable and independent, good shape, handsome, spiritual, etc. Etc). I'm actually attracting more the opposite now which is weird... Maybe that is more due to the shrinking pool of "suitable" men in your age group, rather than a function of your desirability. The guys you seek are mostly already attached. Whilst you were wasting time with your abusive ex, other women were building stuff with "suitable" men. Now they at the "serious", engaged, married, having kids stages... You are unfortunately still having to wade through the flotsam and jetsam, looking for a decent guy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hopeful30 said: I disagree. He may become more attractive as a person, but he won't *look* more attractive if he initially is not. Maybe this is possible with neutral men, where his personality decides his attractiveness, but this is not the case of physically unattractive men. This is the story of my best ex. Gave him a chance, loved him deeply, great man, but the physical attraction never developed after 2 years, even though the emotional attraction did. Agree...completely. And sorry; but what is up with this unattractive /nice guy and attractive/jerk dichotomy that I see so often these days. Seriously the most attractive guys have actually been the sweetest and kindest ... not a chip on their shoulder.... Incels must have started this or something in g Edited June 9, 2020 by Cookiesandough 5 Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Cookiesandough said: Agree...completely. And sorry; but what is up with this unattractive /nice guy and attractive/jerk dichotomy that I see so often these days. Seriously the most attractive guys have actually been the sweetest and kindest ... not bitter with a chip on their shoulder. Incels must have started this or something in g I've always found this to be true. They have always been the nicest and most faithful. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
poppyfields Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, thefooloftheyear said: I know you probably don't want to hear this, but what you "accept", usually winds up being what you actually deserved.... I'll post some additional thoughts later when I have more time, but that's the long and short of it, for a lot of folks... TFY TFY, I really like the way you think. Hopeful, do you not believe you deserve to have it all? The physical attraction/chemistry, the emotional connection, shared values and financial security? There is a saying "to believe is to have." This is deep stuff, and does take some introspection and self-reflection. But there are folks out there who deep within feel undeserving of having a great relationship, encompassing all their needs including physical attraction or even to be treated well. So they either reject everyone they meet even when there is a physical attraction, believing (subconsciously) they don't deserve, or end up with losers who treat them poorly. Or something in between which is where I think you are. Jmo. Willing to forfeit the sexual/physical attraction with a great looking man (in your eyes as looks are subjective) somehow believing you don't deserve him and he will eventually hurt you. Fear combined with low self esteem, which are often hidden within, and take some digging to acknowledge. Edited June 9, 2020 by poppyfields 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 @poppyfields Yes that’s the other option really. Her lack of success isn’t because she had unrealistic expectations, rather she’s self-sabotaging. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
rjc149 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 There are few things more dishonest and unfair to do to someone than to date them as a contingency. We all date the best we can do, but your view of that as "2nd best" along with your frequent use of the words "deserve" and "settle" and "1st choice" belies a sense of close-minded entitlement to perfection (that is actually pretty typical among millennials). We all want to date the most attractive, appealing person who will have us. I'm assuming what you can currently get is thoroughly unappealing to you, hence the hopeless and somewhat bitter tone of this thread... As harsh as this sounds, that's a direct function of what you offer not being all that appealing either, or, the fantastic expectation of attaining a man in the top 10% of the SMV pool without being in the top 10% yourself. So, what do you offer? Have you taken care of yourself, do you make the effort to be attractive and sexy, etc? Yeah, it matters. Most of all, in fact. Men don't really care about your financial status and accomplishments. That's a myth. They care about your looks. And the men who don't are clearly not your 1st choice. Maybe also lose the sense of entitlement, and embrace opportunities for happiness under more open, fluid criteria, instead of categorically dismissing that as 2nd best. There are fewer things more cliche than a 40-year old women who's been holding out for Ryan Reynolds her whole life now lamenting "where have all the good men gone?" Link to post Share on other sites
Versacehottie Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Hopeful30 said: This is the story of my best ex. Gave him a chance, loved him deeply, great man, but the physical attraction never developed after 2 years, even though the emotional attraction did. You keep citing this example above ^^^ which is essentially what you are proposing to do with the "next guy". Why don't you think you will end up in the exact same position that you did with this guy? i.e. will not be able to sustain the relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
Ami1uwant Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: In my personal experience, it's a lot easier to find the physical chemistry than it is to find personality chemistry. There are a ton of good looking, nice, eligible people out there. Not enough people that are really interesting. I don't prioritize physical attraction, but it has to be there for me or I just can't do it. A lot of guys (not all) who suggest women date down feel the same way..They think the women should do it, but not them... O.o As you said...who they are inside is what drives a relationship to be successful. i can sit in a place like a mall, popular park, other high pedestrian traffic and look and see many attractive people. That doesn’t drive it for me. It’s knowing more about who they are. some woman may look at dating someone less attractive as safer from cheating or likely to not divorce. in finding attraction are you reaching out if your league? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
snowcones Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, stillafool said: I've always found this to be true. They have always been the nicest and most faithful. Me too. Actually I feel like it takes all types. There is no guarantee that someone who is unattactive will be nice and no guarantee that someone attractive will be a jerk. It really depends on the person and so many other factors in life. And to the point of what we want vs. what we deserve, I don't believe that is black and white either. I believe there is an element of chance or luck to who we get or end up with. Some people get with folks they don't "deserve", whether that be for better or worse. It absolutely happens and I fully believe that it's partly due to chance, fate, luck, timing...or whatever you want to call it. Again, I believe luck is ONE of many factors, not the only factor, but I do believe that luck plays a part in it. And luck is something that we can not control at all. It's totally and completely out of our hands. Like the weather. It could happen or it may not. It's just a question of, are you, at this point in your life, willing to take a chance on luck or not. Some people think it 's foolish to do that and some people wouldn't have it any other way. It's all up to the individual and I for one would not have anyone tell me what to do with my love life just because they fancy themselves a know-it-all. It's my life and I'll do as I please. I would tell a woman who was 27-32 who absolutely KNEW FOR SURE that she wanted kids to go ahead and settle down with a nice guy so that she can have those kids with him. I would tell a woman who thought she was absolutely going to die if she didn't have a man to marry to go ahead and settle down. But a woman outside of those parameters? Probably not. Her life would not be happier settling down. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
miranda561 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, Ami1uwant said: As you said...who they are inside is what drives a relationship to be successful. i can sit in a place like a mall, popular park, other high pedestrian traffic and look and see many attractive people. That doesn’t drive it for me. It’s knowing more about who they are. some woman may look at dating someone less attractive as safer from cheating or likely to not divorce. in finding attraction are you reaching out if your league? Well she clearly is reaching out of her league. Otherwise she would be with one of those men now. Unless of course the men she is drawn towards are arrogant and delusional. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
notbroken Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Who wants to be with someone that 'settled' for you? If you do and somehow convey that to them through your actions/attitude I think it would doom the relationship. I want to be with someone I am attracted to and who desires me. Don't we all want desire - both getting and giving? I don't expect or even want perfection. I tried a relationship without attraction and failed miserably (ended with two broken hearts). Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 39 minutes ago, snowcones said: I would tell a woman who was 27-32 who absolutely KNEW FOR SURE that she wanted kids to go ahead and settle down with a nice guy so that she can have those kids with him. I agree. I don't agree with the "you're only 30" message if having a family is a priority. The fact is that pregnancies are most successful for women and men in their 20s, then in their 30s and so on. It doesn't mean older couples can't have successful pregnancies and healthy babies - in fact, I learned that birth rates are dropping with the exception of women in their late 30s and early 40s, since on average women are choosing to have kids later - but outcomes are better across the board the younger the couple is. I believe that once you make a commitment in marriage, your goal should be to keep that commitment for life - so make sure it's someone you can live with. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, miranda561 said: Well she clearly is reaching out of her league. Otherwise she would be with one of those men now. Unless of course the men she is drawn towards are arrogant and delusional. Well they could be out of my league yes, but my problem is I just don't find anyone who interests me...like not even just meet someone and have it be unrequited...I don't find anyone period...So I wouldn't know if that are out of my league or not. I would actually love to find a situation where I fell head over heels for someone and it's unrequited, as sad as that is. I just love that feeling of infatuation. But it never lasts for me... Edited June 9, 2020 by Cookiesandough 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
miranda561 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Well they could be out of my league yes, but my problem is I just don't find anyone who interests me...like not even just meet someone and have it be unrequited...I don't find anyone period...So I wouldn't know if that are out of my league or not. I would actually love to find a situation where I fell head over heels for someone and it's unrequited, as sad as that is. I just love that feeling of infatuation. But it never lasts for me... You want to find someone who you fall head over heels for but its not reciprocated? I think you're better of not experiencing that. Many people find rejection hard to deal with. Let alone someone you're head over heels for 1 Link to post Share on other sites
rjc149 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Ami1uwant said: some woman may look at dating someone less attractive as safer from cheating or likely to not divorce. in finding attraction are you reaching out if your league? Yes, female mating strategy is often a duality -- fornicating with an attractive man for strong genes, and nesting with a provider to raise the offspring. Because the attractive man is more likely to have abundant alternative mating options, he is less likely to make a long-term commitment (leave, cheat, etc). He's "dangerous" and that makes him exciting. Because the provider is generally less sexually exciting, he is less likely to stray and more likely to commit long-term. He's typically "safer." Women ideally want both, "the alpha provider" (ie. rich, high-status, and handsome, but also loyal, vulnerable and emotionally soft) as he is coined by the man-o-sphere. But they are rare. They are at the top 10% of the dating pool, and either taken, or dating women who are in the top 10% themselves. "Where have all the good men gone?" That's where. A woman who is a 5 or 6 isn't "settling" for men who are 5's and 6's. She views it that way because constant media inundation has hard-wired her into believe that she deserves a man who is an 8 or a 9. And the end of the day, in dating, we take what we can get, or we go without. If the OP is viewing her options as attaining a perfect man who is out of her league, grudgingly settling for a man who is more realistic, or going without, then I would say it's cats 'n dildos for her unless she can stop viewing it as "grudgingly settling." 3 Link to post Share on other sites
miranda561 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, rjc149 said: Yes, female mating strategy is often a duality -- fornicating with an attractive man for strong genes, and nesting with a provider to raise the offspring. Because the attractive man is more likely to have abundant alternative mating options, he is less likely to make a long-term commitment (leave, cheat, etc). He's "dangerous" and that makes him exciting. Because the provider is generally less sexually exciting, he is less likely to stray and more likely to commit long-term. He's typically "safer." Women ideally want both, "the alpha provider" (ie. rich, high-status, and handsome, but also loyal, vulnerable and emotionally soft) as he is coined by the man-o-sphere. But they are rare. They are at the top 10% of the dating pool, and either taken, or dating women who are in the top 10% themselves. "Where have all the good men gone?" That's where. A woman who is a 5 or 6 isn't "settling" for men who are 5's and 6's. She views it that way because constant media inundation has hard-wired her into believe that she deserves a man who is an 8 or a 9. And the end of the day, in dating, we take what we can get, or we go without. If the OP is viewing her options as attaining a perfect man who is out of her league, grudgingly settling for a man who is more realistic, or going without, then I would say it's cats 'n dildos for her unless she can stop viewing it as "grudgingly settling." Ideally no one wants to feel lile they're settling. And somehow i don't think the OP will suddenly change her mind frame That she isnt settling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
rjc149 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, miranda561 said: Ideally no one wants to feel lile they're settling. And somehow i don't think the OP will suddenly change her mind frame That she isnt settling. You're right, her problem is that she views herself as passing up potentially better future opportunities to "settle" for something now. Which begs the question, are those potentially better future opportunities real, or an entitlement illusion. It requires a shift in mindset toward a more open, fluid criteria, not a rigid set of boxes that must all be checked, and if one box isn't checked, he's "2nd place." Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, rjc149 said: You're right, her problem is that she views herself as passing up potentially better future opportunities to "settle" for something now. Which begs the question, are those potentially better future opportunities real, or an entitlement illusion. It requires a shift in mindset toward a more open, fluid criteria, not a rigid set of boxes that must all be checked, and if one box isn't checked, he's "2nd place." Actually I don't see Hopeful30 as being reluctant to take what may be right before her in the hopes that somebody better will come along in the future. I see this as more despondent. She's afraid this is as a good as it gets & that makes her sad because it's not what she wants. What I have been trying to explain to her is that she's labeling perfectly good guys as not enough when they really are if she would just give them a chance. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Everyone at some point has to "settle" as everyone realises that there is no point in keeping on hoping for something better to come along. You "settle" or you stay single. Even the most desirable mate can always be "better" if you want to think about it in that way. There has to come a time when we all become happy enough with what we can get and what is available to us. That does not mean grabbing some dreadful guy or some awful girl "just because", but most can find decent honest people to have a good relationship with if they give them a chance. 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
poppyfields Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) In response to a previous post, some men simply enjoy the challenge. When they encounter a disinterested woman, it’s not so much they’re into “her” per se as they are into the challenge of winning her. I have encountered men like this when I was dating, more times than not. ☹ How could I tell? When I felt nothing and he appeared head over heels, then there’s something happening (on his end) other than genuine chemistry and attraction. Genuine chemistry and attraction between two people is typically mutual because it's an energy generating between BOTH. I never trusted when men seemed all high on me when I felt nothing. I wasn't flattered at all, nor did I believe it. I immediately thought they're into fantasy or the challenge and it turned me more off than I already was. No thanks. Edited June 9, 2020 by poppyfields 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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