Deleting my dating profile and settling for the next guy I date.

[CaliforniaGirl]

45 minutes ago, rjc149 said:

Yes, and the thing is, the window of time where an attractive woman has her pick of the litter is 18-30, fairly brief, and yet it shapes her persona and worldview so profoundly that it endures in the face of reality long after she's begun her SMV decline. A woman who was the 'hot girl' in her 20's isn't letting that persona go so easily when her glory days are behind her. And when she must, I would imagine that's difficult. It's difficult to confront the reality that she doesn't have her pick anymore. 

That may very well be the underlying despair the OP feels. 

 

All this is what I meant by the red pill stuff. Nothing is ever this black and white.

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, enigma32 said:

I remember when OK Cupid released their study on women and attractiveness. They found that women on their site only found 20% of all men to be above average when it comes to looks. Obviously, some ladies really are a bit picky when it comes to looks, and I find that kinda sad. If those picky ladies are able to find their ideal and it works out for them, good! From what I have seen though, in my years on this site, and being "the guy" that everyone in the real world comes to with their problems, is that those overly picky ladies generally end up alone. 

Like someone else pointed out before, people usually end up with someone around their level when it comes to looks. When you have some people, men or women, that are likely just average or just above in looks, but they look down on people that are probably much hotter than they are....they're gonna have a tough time. But, I guess that is ok too, since there are a lot of homeless cats out there that need someone to take care of them. 

When laid out as a row of pictures, no movement, no facial expressions for charm of anything else, sure.

As things play out? Look around you. I'm certain a very high percentage of hooked-up men are, empirically, very average.

Why? (Everybody say it along with me...) Attraction, yes, even physical attraction, physically wanting someone, is about so much more than the genetic look of the person. So, so, so much more.

This is all so obvious.

Edited June 11, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[CaliforniaGirl]

2 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

Except that when the same study released their results on what men thought, the results were not the same. Men were much more fair in their assessment. I mean, think about it...how can you really find 80% of men below average in looks? That was what happened though. 

I do agree that over time, attraction can and does often build, but if you pay attention to some of the threads here, some people have tried that method and failed. So very few people are attractive to them and they just can't seem to get passed it. 

I am lucky. I have never been that guy that a woman just looks at and she throws herself at me. I'm the guy that they get to know and then they want me. So, I get where you are coming from because that has been my life, but there are a lot of outliers it seems and I do think their is a disconnect.

That's what the men *said,* yes. But wasn't there another study showing only 10% or something of women in OLD got a gigantic percentage of total approaches?

Real life NEVER plays out like these silly numbers, and not just because people "can't get" a movie star. Is Pierce Brosnan still with his wife because he can't do any better? Was Paula what's her name unable to "do better" than Rick Ocacek? Christina Hendricks can't do better than...yeeughhhh, that...guy? And on, and on.

[Ruby Slippers]

The majority of women wanting the top 20% of men has a biological basis. Just as every lioness is programmed to select for the king of the jungle, so is every woman. A woman's biological success - commitment, healthy offspring, access to resources, survival, easier and safer life - depends heavily on the quality of her mate. 

Men, on the other hand, can breed willy nilly with no real biological consequences. In the modern world there are legal consequences (child support), but the reptile brain doesn't factor that in. It makes biological sense for a man to be more "fair" in mate selection. 

[rjc149]

7 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

All this is what I meant by the red pill stuff. Nothing is ever this black and white.

You're right, everything falls within a spectrum. But aside from the bitterness and misogynist contempt that bleeds from a lot of red pill theory, there's a kernel of truth to it.

A lot of red pill theory is a manifestation of anger, that men do not have the ownership over women they once had, and believe they should always have ("men's rights movement"). The concept of the "wall" is a means for incel men to regain control and domain over women, sort of like a "you rejected me, but I'll have the last laugh when you hit the wall!"

But there is absolutely no denying that the "hot girl" persona causes some aging women to be unreasonably picky in their mates, because their top choices are either already taken, or can date younger women, but yet, "I'm a sassy sexy lady and I deserve nothing less than first percentile." This is a documented (at least anecdotally) phenomenon. And there's some red pill truth to it. And, I am surmising, this is a factor in the OP's problem.

 

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, rjc149 said:

 

 

We're done here. 

More for me.

Step aside, I'm goin' in.

[Weezy1973]

So at the end of the day the question for the OP is, is she only attracted to men out of her league? Would a man equally attractive as her be settling to her because he doesn’t give her the butterflies and stomach flips?

[5x5]

8 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

That could be true. I don’t know. All I know is that I don’t find him attractive. And I would not date a man who looks like him.

I don't get it either.

After looking him up because I didn't know who he was, I showed my wife pictures of him. And we both considered him to be average looking to slightly below average. Since his face is a bit odd looking and not attractive, sure he's not hideously ugly yet he certainly isn't eye candy.

I am not surprised that you, Miranda561 and Hopeful30 aren't wowed by him at all. My wife also doesn't think he is attractive either.

Whereas my wife thinks the following celebrities are good looking; Aidan Turner (although it would be nice if he washed his hair more) Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (he's very nice), Kit Harington (he has a wonderful smile), Jude Law who was beautiful when he was young (before his hairline started receding), plus some others etc.

That said my wife asked me out and tells me she wouldn't have if I wasn't handsome back then. Yet I don't look like the men she mentioned above, since I've always looked a bit like Matthew Broderick. While my wife (especially when she was a younger woman) looks like the Italian beauty from the 1940s-60s Silvana Mangano. Of which it probably isn't a surprise that my wife has some resemblance to Silvana Mangano, being that she is also Italian and one of her grandparents surnames is Mangano.

Regarding  Chris Hemsworth mentioned earlier, my wife thinks he looks okay, but she also thinks he is kind of average for a lot of Australian males with British and North Western European ancestry.

Oh and Scarlett Johansson looks very average to me as well, and I don't find find her attractive. For celebrities in terms of looks I find; Audrey Tautou, Jessica Raine and Mary Elizabeth Winstead plus some others far more appealing to me.

At the end of the day I don't think @Hopeful30 is being too picky, because she thinks Ryan Reynolds is unattractive.

It's okay for all of us to have different likes and dislikes.

[5x5]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

So at the end of the day the question for the OP is, is she only attracted to men out of her league? Would a man equally attractive as her be settling to her because he doesn’t give her the butterflies and stomach flips?

Absent having those mutual butterflies and stomach flips. It seems a fools errand to me, to ever bother having or carrying on a romantic/sexual relationship with someone.

[Weezy1973]

5 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Absent having those mutual butterflies and stomach flips. It seems a fools errand to me, to ever bother having or carrying on a romantic/sexual relationship with someone.

So what would be the answer for someone  who wants marriage and children? If the people who give you butterflies are not available to you, what should you do?

[QuietRiot]

8 hours ago, rjc149 said:

You're right, everything falls within a spectrum. But aside from the bitterness and misogynist contempt that bleeds from a lot of red pill theory, there's a kernel of truth to it.

A lot of red pill theory is a manifestation of anger, that men do not have the ownership over women they once had, and believe they should always have ("men's rights movement"). The concept of the "wall" is a means for incel men to regain control and domain over women, sort of like a "you rejected me, but I'll have the last laugh when you hit the wall!"

But there is absolutely no denying that the "hot girl" persona causes some aging women to be unreasonably picky in their mates, because their top choices are either already taken, or can date younger women, but yet, "I'm a sassy sexy lady and I deserve nothing less than first percentile." This is a documented (at least anecdotally) phenomenon. And there's some red pill truth to it. And, I am surmising, this is a factor in the OP's problem.

 

 

I know what you mean. Recently a woman moved into my area, middle 50s (just to give you an idea age-wise). She has probably indicated in the sub heading and in the profile that "If you're under 5'10"...to pass her profile by.

She is 50-something, got some weight on here, although she's not entirely unattractive, but not fit at all. I wouldn't think a head turner, but cute enough that I'd make an attempt. Plus I think , "How can a woman that age, still care about looks?"  She was only 5'5" herself, so it doesnt make sense. Plus she demanded that the men that contact her only live in adjecent cities.

SHe moved here from the BIG city because she hated it, and has no intention of making commutes to said BIG city to meet men from the site.

I actually engaged in conversation with her on this...and she' steadfast on the height thing, and said she has no problem pulling men. She bragged about how her 80+ year old dad could still pull in the ladies and barely even had any grey hair (looked young for his age).

So somehow, she puts stock on good genes at looking youthful at her age. She's banking on basically good genes.  So basically, if she feels that her older relatives can pull the opposite sex without a problem...she'll continue to be picky as a 20-something woman.

[d0nnivain]

29 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

So what would be the answer for someone  who wants marriage and children? If the people who give you butterflies are not available to you, what should you do?

Keep looking for those butterflies.  If you have a type that gives you butterflies go find somebody like that who is available. 

Hopeful30 was complaining that nobody gives her butterflies.  Hence, my advice was to stop looking for butterflies.  If she was otherwise happy enough with somebody who checked every other box except butterflies there is no need be miserable searching for something that doesn't exist

[Weezy1973]

1 minute ago, d0nnivain said:

If you have a type that gives you butterflies go find somebody like that who is available. 

 

I believe for @Hopeful30 those men aren’t available to her. That’s the issue. So it becomes a choice of, does she settle for a man who doesn’t give her butterflies, or does she settle for a life without marriage and children?

[thefooloftheyear]

40 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

So what would be the answer for someone  who wants marriage and children? If the people who give you butterflies are not available to you, what should you do?

Get a dog or two....Focus on new hobbies, etc...

One of my closest friends was duped by a lesbian into kids/family/lifestyle...She thought she could have the perfect scenario where she has the white fence and kids, yet still maintain the sexual relationship with her girlfriend.. He obviously never knew nor never had any reason to doubt her sexual preference He subsequently wound up having to pay her millions of dollars to get her out of his life(he's very wealthy)….He adores his kids, but quite frankly he's a broken man now....he's so angry and disappointed now..who could blame him, right?

This is an extreme example, but it demonstrates how bad this could get...I also don't necessarily buy the notion that in this entire world or even in any particular area where there are a fair amount of people, that there is no one available for a particular person...That just means(to me) that maybe the person needs to reassess what they think they deserve...Having unrealistic standards isn't an excuse to dupe someone..

TFY

Edited June 11, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[d0nnivain]

Just now, Weezy1973 said:

I believe for @Hopeful30 those men aren’t available to her. 

I don't know where she went but what I have always understood about Hopeful30 is that men in general are attracted to her & she gets asked out all the time.  However, she does not find the men to be attractive because she has very narrow & specific parameters about what she finds attractive.  She explained them to me privately.  It's not my place to share those criteria with the board since she has not  IMO the criteria while extremely narrow are not unattainable.  She's not punching above her weight or searching "out of her league"; there just aren't a lot of what she wants.  So yes, I think she should not reject the next otherwise good man who pursues her just because he's not perfect 

Let me try to explain it this way.  Several of my sorority sisters from college are women who are more then 6 feet tall.  They prefer to date men who are taller then they are.  Some will say they have to settle for shorter guys because there are more men of average height then very tall men.  To them I say, no.  Go get you tall guy.  Be persistent.  

In contrast my former business partner was holding out for multi-millionaires with lots of advanced education & from the earliest stages of dating she expected them to behave like her BIL of 10+ years in terms of what the new BF would do for the family.  My friend was completely unreasonable & had to readjust her expectations.  She has now been happily dating a successful entrepreneur who doesn't even have a college education but he makes a good living & he's an amazing guy.  

Do you see the difference?  

[Weezy1973]

@d0nnivain I understand what you’re saying, but will add that often there’s more to the story. I’ll give an example of a guy I knew who was adamant that all he cared about was that the woman wasn’t overweight. But in reality he was only attracted to white women, that were quite slim and also put a certain amount of effort into their appearance (makeup, hair etc.).
 

So if the only parameter is “tall”, that’s cool  , but often it’s actually, tall, full head of hair, athletic build and handsome face.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Weezy1973

[QuietRiot]

26 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I don't know where she went but what I have always understood about Hopeful30 is that men in general are attracted to her & she gets asked out all the time.  However, she does not find the men to be attractive because she has very narrow & specific parameters about what she finds attractive.  She explained them to me privately.  It's not my place to share those criteria with the board since she has not  IMO the criteria while extremely narrow are not unattainable.  She's not punching above her weight or searching "out of her league"; there just aren't a lot of what she wants.  So yes, I think she should not reject the next otherwise good man who pursues her just because he's not perfect 

Let me try to explain it this way.  Several of my sorority sisters from college are women who are more then 6 feet tall.  They prefer to date men who are taller then they are.  Some will say they have to settle for shorter guys because there are more men of average height then very tall men.  To them I say, no.  Go get you tall guy.  Be persistent.  

In contrast my former business partner was holding out for multi-millionaires with lots of advanced education & from the earliest stages of dating she expected them to behave like her BIL of 10+ years in terms of what the new BF would do for the family.  My friend was completely unreasonable & had to readjust her expectations.  She has now been happily dating a successful entrepreneur who doesn't even have a college education but he makes a good living & he's an amazing guy.  

Do you see the difference?  

This made me think of some of the woman I've known, some in my smaller area, that are very attractive and avaialble...but actually stopped dating MAINLY due to the geography of men she would not feel would be a good match. Men show interest, but every single one so far has not met her desires.

I recall one school teacher that posted on FB..."Where are all the good men at, all the attractive ones are GAY!" lol Or something like that. They'd assume not settle and just use a toy instead to get their physical needs met.

I know a woman that's like this. As she's content on hanging with her gal pals and teen-aged daughter. When she hangs out with a circle of people...men try to get a date with her, but she says she has no interest in dating. Apparently, her one marriage made her not want any kind of male companionship. She even stopped me before asking..."And no...I don't do friends with benefits"

So she'll even forgoe friends with benefits with a man. I don't think a man that say, doesn't desire a relationship...will at least find some woman friend to poke on occasion.

Every time, dudes are like "Come ooon...you can't mean that!"  Even some of her female friends get onto about her remaining single...possibly for life...by choice.

They are like "Never say never!"

Unless a man is completely neutered, I don't think he'll ever NOT want to have a woman in his life...as they are biologically wired to pursue women...even to the point where he's trying to coax her out of her chastity lifestyle of remaining single indefinitely and even chastise her for it.  

[d0nnivain]

My check list was pretty stringent but I knew at lot of men who fit the criteria.  Everybody I dated past a certain again met the minimums even though my minimums would be considered very high maintenance by most people's standards.  I created the standard to stop myself from dating the quintessential bad boys because intellectually at least I realized early on that was a path to no where.  When what you want is readily available, there is no need to settle.  But when you consistently find that what you want doesn't exist, it is time to reevaluate.  

Again I think Hopeful30 is maturing not settling.  

In my own life, although my preference was for men who did not have kids, I was open to a single father, however I drew the line at multiple baby mamas.  When I met my husband he was below my previously established age minimum and he did not have a college degree.  Still he was a good guy & he was industrious.  You'd be surprised at the # of women who encouraged me to drop him because he wasn't already perfect.  I could see that he was working toward perfect for me so I took a chance & obviously it paid off.  BTW, I got all the butterflies so there was no compromise there. 😍 It's about flexibility .   

Overall weezy1973, I think we're saying very similar things about being realistic.  

[miranda561]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

So what would be the answer for someone  who wants marriage and children? If the people who give you butterflies are not available to you, what should you do?

I agree this is a dilemma because i rarely find anyone who gives me the butterflies etc..

But one has to settle at some point. 😂

[Weezy1973]

47 minutes ago, miranda561 said:

I agree this is a dilemma because i rarely find anyone who gives me the butterflies etc..

But one has to settle at some point. 😂

Rare butterflies I think is fine as long as those people are also people you can build  a future with and those people are also interested in you! 
 

Problems happen when butterflies only happen with people that aren’t good relationship material or with people who are unavailable to you (I.e. not interested in you).