Guys should not give women their phone number

[Watercolors]

14 hours ago, amaysngrace said:

My guy and I exchanged numbers the day I lost my job and he walked me out to my car.

Yes, but your experience is 100% different because you already knew your boyfriend and the other guy who you exchanged phone numbers with. You were not complete strangers. So it's just not the same as what I experienced. Completely different context. 

12 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Either way I really wouldn't like this guy's style. The whole thing about him grabbing the keys out of the OP's hands and pretending to steal them (what??? Touch me again, boy, make my day), invasively "fixing" the lock (without even asking? WTF?) and driving up and tossing the business card and saying he's wild...yeah. Screw loose.

The OP is good with forgetting about it but let's see what happens the next time he looms up on a stranger, grabs things from her, starts to run away with the item, etc. He's going to wind up messing with the wrong woman. He'll grab some lady's purse she's trying to open and her husband will come out at that moment or something. He'd better dammed hope that's not a very big, very angry husband. You don't lay your HANDS on a stranger, a woman you don't know. Because it's hilarious and such a turn on. What the hell?

I mean that is all so screwed up I don't even know what end to pick it up by.

Now, standing in line together or something, a casual conversation, "I like you but don't want to put you on the spot...so if you'd like to continue this conversation, give me a call, I'd love to take you out for coffee," or something equally adult, interesting/interested, non-psychotic and involving no running up to grab people's property in order to turn them on might be more the ticket.

Yes, exactly CaliforniaGirl! Any end you pick it up by, it's whacked. Especially for a 50 year old guy to act like that with a complete stranger. 

[IntBrowser]

I disagree.   After a day of talking online its time to transition offline

[Watercolors]

17 minutes ago, IntBrowser said:

I disagree.   After a day of talking online its time to transition offline

This isn't a thread about online dating. 

[CollinW]

On 6/9/2020 at 7:51 PM, Watercolors said:

...because it makes them seem "lazy," like the woman isn't worth the effort of asking her for her phone number. Sure, guys offer their phone number to women because they are shy, its 2020 and social media and online dating has changed courtship somewhat, or they are trying to impress the woman with their business card to show her that they are gainfully employed, therefore worth dating. 

Yesterday, when I was at the store, the lock on my SUV suddenly decided to stop working. A guy walked by and then grabbed my keys and pretended to run off with them but then came back. He tried to fix my lock and told me he has his own flooring business. He did fix the lock (which was great) and then he left. I was sitting in my SUV responding to some texts and he drives up in his business van and hands me his business card and tells me to call him to go out. I told him that I don't drink or smoke and am fairly low key. He responded, "Oh well I'm a wild guy you'll get used to it." Um, what?! 

I thanked him for his business card and then threw it away. I just think if he's that cocky, he probably gives his business card out to a lot of women. Had he asked me for my phone number, I definitely would have given it to him. Why can't men just ask women for their phone number anymore? Even if men give women their business card, there's a 50/50 chance she won't call which is the same if a he asks for her phone number -- she may reject him. Is romance dead?! I think it's sweet for a man to ask a woman for her phone number. Where are those men? 

Women should not micromanage men's actions. 

These discussions criticizing men in how they date are nothing but attempts to gaslight them into thinking dating under their own terms are personality flaws. 

No individual action speaks to what a man is. You know that, but some women denigrate anything that forces upon them responsibility or holds them accountable. That gives you the privilege of sitting back and doing all the judging of every move he takes, all while being able to blame him for your dating failures when he's inevitably tired of your entitlement, since you haven't done anything anyway. 

I'm not going to judge you for being too cowardly to be willing to take any initiative, as just like men you have the right to date how you want to. But at least own up the motives behind this misandry. Just say you expect men to infantilize you when dating and if they don't keep it moving.

Your reaction to his actions speaks more about you than it does about him to be honest. 

[QuietRiot]

2 hours ago, CollinW said:

Women should not micromanage men's actions. 

These discussions criticizing men in how they date are nothing but attempts to gaslight them into thinking dating under their own terms are personality flaws. 

 

High 5!! You said it dude!!

[5x5]

On 6/13/2020 at 1:38 PM, amaysngrace said:

Anyway I’m glad I texted him, we’ve been a thing ever since.  A very good thing 

That's sweet and I'm glad you're both happy. Likewise I'm also glad he he broke Watercolors rule, and gave you his number.

[5x5]

On 6/10/2020 at 10:51 AM, Watercolors said:

...because it makes them seem "lazy," like the woman isn't worth the effort of asking her for her phone number. Sure, guys offer their phone number to women because they are shy,

How on earth do you conclude that men hand out there phone numbers because they are shy? I've handed my phone number out and I am far from shy.

Likewise it's a long bow aimed poorly to draw the conclusion that a man thinks a woman isn't worth the effort of asking.

Some people do different things with different people. My sexual relationships with different women have all started differently from each other.

We are not all part of the Borg. And thank "god" for that, since life would be pretty boring if we all universally followed someones arbitrary dating rules.

On 6/10/2020 at 10:51 AM, Watercolors said:

I thanked him for his business card and then threw it away. I just think if he's that cocky, he probably gives his business card out to a lot of women.

Someone can be confident and cocky, yet still not hand out there card to a lot of women or hand it out to very few or even hand it out to one once.

On 6/10/2020 at 10:51 AM, Watercolors said:

Had he asked me for my phone number, I definitely would have given it to him.

So if he asked you for your number, you were interested, yet because he gave you his number you weren't.

Do you find that having prescriptive rules (that only a mind reader could know), gets you the type of man you want to be in a sexual relationship with?

Since whether he gave you the number or asked for it, or you asked for his or offered yours in the first instance. I don't see how it matters in any substantive way, when someone has the other persons number that is actually important to a dating relationship.

It just reads to me that you would prefer to cut your nose off to spite your face with your prescriptive approach.

On 6/10/2020 at 2:53 PM, Watercolors said:

This has been my experience as well over the years when I've actively dated men. I had to learn the hard way a few times, that men who can't be bothered to ask me for my phone number, and offer me theirs instead, have never turned into anything long-term. That makes them lazy slackers for sure! Like, if you are attracted to me, at least make an effort by asking me for my phone number. 

Well by the same token, a man can say "if you are attracted to me, at least make an effort by asking me for my phone number". Of which asking or offering a phone number is pretty much six of one and half a dozen of the other.

I'm sure it might sometimes feel nice sitting atop a pedestal, expecting men to fawn before you. Yet great sexual relationships have a foundation in mutual affection, mutual desire and mutual liking and loving one another. They certainly aren't built upon the foundation of having a man having to prostrate himself in worship to a woman.

On 6/10/2020 at 3:01 PM, Watercolors said:

By giving me his business card, he's totally in control of the situation. If I had called him, he could have played games with me and either not answered my call, or waited days to text me back, or who knows what.

Or maybe he might have said, I'm glad you called...

On 6/10/2020 at 3:04 PM, Watercolors said:

I think its a younger generation preference. I'm Generation X. So, I'm used to having men ask me for my phone number (the good ones always did) in college or thereafter because cell phones were barely into existence and there was no social media or instant messaging in the 1980s or 1990s.

Snap! I'm Generation X as well, which is why I am totally awesome 😉.

So I'm used to women writing their number down on a piece of paper and coming up to me unasked to push it into my hand while whispering into my ear "call me", or coming up to me and asking me for my number (the good ones always did). That said I did sometimes ask some women for their numbers, yet I also sometimes just gave women my number as well.

On 6/10/2020 at 3:20 PM, Watercolors said:

As I am responding to you lovely people's posts, I am also reflecting on all the lazy slacker guys I gave a chance to, who gave me THEIR phone number instead of asking me for my phone number. None of those connections lasted. Coincidence? I think not. Pattern? Definitely. 

Are you the common denominator?

Seriously I hope for your sake, that what you have written just above is in in jest. Since thinking relationship success or failure hinges upon, who shares their phone number first Is clearly problematic. Since prescriptive rules on dating, started falling out of favour following the Regency era, which is long before you or I were born.

On 6/10/2020 at 6:39 PM, Watercolors said:

Well, did he think telling me that he's a 'wild guy and I'll get used to it' was not to make me feel uncomfortable? How is that respectful? Because it sure didn't make me feel comfortable AT ALL. I saw it as a preview of possibly what's to come with him; I give him boundaries, "I don't drink or smoke and am fairly laid back," and he just ignores those boundaries, "I'm a wild guy, you'll get used to it." That is not someone I want to reach out to, unless I want to be in an abusive relationship. 

Just because you don't drink or smoke, how is it an infringement upon your boundaries if he does? He may well have accepted you as you are, without wanting to tell you how to behave.

So given that it needn't be considered an affront, that he affords you the respect that you may get used to him being him. Just as he may get used to you being you as well.

That said I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Miss Spider]

12 hours ago, CollinW said:

Women should not micromanage men's actions. 

These discussions criticizing men in how they date are nothing but attempts to gaslight them into thinking dating under their own terms are personality flaws. 

No individual action speaks to what a man is. You know that, but some women denigrate anything that forces upon them responsibility or holds them accountable. That gives you the privilege of sitting back and doing all the judging of every move he takes, all while being able to blame him for your dating failures when he's inevitably tired of your entitlement, since you haven't done anything anyway. 

I'm not going to judge you for being too cowardly to be willing to take any initiative, as just like men you have the right to date how you want to. But at least own up the motives behind this misandry. Just say you expect men to infantilize you when dating and if they don't keep it moving.

Your reaction to his actions speaks more about you than it does about him to be honest. 

Alright, but this a discussion /advice forum. If someone doesn’t wanna change their modus operandi because it’s working so well for them or because of some principle they wish to uphold, that’s totally cool. 
 

but to say that opinions from women regarding how a man should approach a woman are women’s attempt to “gaslight” men is a pretty far stretch. Maybe some men are looking for opinions on whether they should give or receive a number and may benefit from hearing some differing  opinions on how it’s viewed by women. The consensus here  thinks it seems cowardly/stemming from fear, or it is lazy/disinterested, or that it seems like an odd  step to ask someone to contact you first when you’re the one who wants to get to know them. 
 

This guy didn’t get a date with OP and she was just explaining why. A lot of women feel that way. I, for instance, have no problem taking initiative in asking a guy out, but it does impact my view on him when he gives his number. To say one action does not define a person may be true, but actions, especially the initial ones,  form an impression within a cultural/societal scope and I think if you’re being smart about your interactions with people, you take note of this.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[CollinW]

3 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

but to say that opinions from women regarding how a man should approach a woman are women’s attempt to “gaslight” men is a pretty far stretch.

Not if you know what gaslighting means. If I were to create a post saying that women who don't shave are lazy and are bound to be bad mothers, when in reality I just simply want women to conform to my idea of femininity, you wouldn't write it off as me giving helpful advice. So let's not play stupid about the motivations here. 

3 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Maybe some men are looking for opinions on whether they should give or receive a number and may benefit from hearing some differing  opinions on how it’s viewed by women.

Maybe so, but this thread wasn't created under the guise of giving men advice, it was created in order to shame the guy who didn't approach the way OP wanted. As is often done here on loveshack and other popular forums. You're not giving advice if you're dictating what actions a man should take solely for the purpose of validating your own fragile femininity. 

3 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

This guy didn’t get a date with OP and she was just explaining why.

I don't think he cares, or anyone else for that matter. Here is a honest to God truth. A lot of men don't live their lives for the sole purpose of satiating a woman's requirements. If a man doesn't want to do something even if it means a few entitled women will reject it, I think we're okay with that.

Just like a woman who doesn't shave is okay with avoiding the men who feel it's required. He approached in a way where he expected her to appreciate the nuance of less direct advances. Instead she stripped him of his humanity and devolved him into nothing more than the sum of his very minor actions. That should have been the end of it. 

[Miss Spider]

54 minutes ago, CollinW said:

Not if you know what gaslighting means. If I were to create a post saying that women who don't shave are lazy and are bound to be bad mothers, when in reality I just simply want women to conform to my idea of femininity, you wouldn't write it off as me giving helpful advice. So let's not play stupid about the motivations here. 

Maybe so, but this thread wasn't created under the guise of giving men advice, it was created in order to shame the guy who didn't approach the way OP wanted. As is often done here on loveshack and other popular forums. You're not giving advice if you're dictating what actions a man should take solely for the purpose of validating your own fragile femininity. 

I don't think he cares, or anyone else for that matter. Here is a honest to God truth. A lot of men don't live their lives for the sole purpose of satiating a woman's requirements. If a man doesn't want to do something even if it means a few entitled women will reject it, I think we're okay with that.

Just like a woman who doesn't shave is okay with avoiding the men who feel it's required. He approached in a way where he expected her to appreciate the nuance of less direct advances. Instead she stripped him of his humanity and devolved him into nothing more than the sum of his very minor actions. That should have been the end of it. 

I understand where you’re coming from, and I agree once again that if you don’t care/it’s working for you, cool. But there also seems to be a stretch in that argument by analogy. Maybe a better analogy would be a woman being too ‘aggressive’ or “easy” because she approached a man. I don’t know how long you’ve been here, but that is actually said all the time on these forums and people cosign that women should expect to be unsuccessful with a man because they chased in the beginning or approached  first. It’s just seems to be two  schools of thought, one who believes in more  traditional gender roles and the other who don’t and each explaining why. But I do accept/respect that you see  gaslighting and misandry here even if I think it’s a stretch. 

 

Thanks for clarifying 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[beentheredonethat77]

I respect everyones opinions here -- i come to message boards like this to enjoy opposing opinions and glean understanding of others' perspectives.

Three things though: 

1. I MUCH prefer to receive his number than be asked for mine.   I need time to process the interaction and decide if i even liked him or found him attractive.  If he has my number and thinks i seemed interested because i was friendly (im always friendly) it would just be awkward.  Plus i dont need some stranger having my phone number, especially if i later decide he gave me bad vibes, or i was simply not attracted.

2.  I dont mind a business card -- I never saw it as an arrogant power play so much as a "this authenticates my name and shows you i am who i say am" reduces chances hes a scammer or creepy lying dude / serial killer. --- by knowing where he works its easier to research and find out if hes married / and/or wanted criminal on the lam etc before you bother investing any time and salon money on looking good for first date. 

3. I think the wild comment was cringy ... and so was his taking the keys --- I think hes awkward ... or just a type of sense of humor that is an acquired taste :).  He may be a really good person... too little info to judge. 

Bottom line.. i respect that in dating we identify red flags as a way to reduce chance of being disappointed/hurt down the line.   I just happen to not share the OP's opinion on this one.   

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by beentheredonethat77

[Logo]

I’m glad to see we’re still stuck in the 1950s dating scene as a society here in the great US of A. 
 

He seems like a fun guy. Fixed your lock for you. “Makes you wonder”? Keep wondering and assuming until a Hollywood scenario falls into your lap. 
 

 

[Logo]

On 6/9/2020 at 8:51 PM, Watercolors said:Even if men give women their business card, there's a 50/50 chance she won't call which is the same if a he asks for her phone number -- she may reject him. Is romance dead?! I think it's sweet for a man to ask a woman for her phone number. Where are those men? 

So many assumptions about the man. Wow.
 

 If it weren’t one thing you’d be complaining about another, like lack of chivalry. 
 

You’re stuck with a formula about “romance” and you don’t even know the guy. You know what, spare the man the agony and don’t contact him. He’ll thank his lucky stars. 

He wasn’t proposing. He probably just didn’t want to have to listen to some lame excuse as to why you can’t give him your phone number. You want the man to do all the work while you sit back like a princess. He made the mistake of fixing your lock. Waste of his time. 

[elaine567]

On 6/10/2020 at 10:54 AM, Watercolors said:

No assumption there. It was very off putting.

Ok so why are you posting here about some guy you have no interest in?
Methinks the lady protesteth too much.
You should have kept his number and not immediately thrown it away in a fit of pique.
Then you could have assessed the situation more carefully, as it was you went off on some hissy fit about him being an abusive, divorced player with no evidence of any of that whatsoever...

[poppyfields]

On 6/11/2020 at 6:32 PM, Watercolors said:

 I did "vet" him. I threw away his business card after I did a quick search of his name on my cellphone. Nothing with his name or his flooring business phone number even appeared in Google search. That was a huge red flag for me. Most everyone is on social media -- including entrepreneurs. A business card with a name and phone number is sketchy, at best. No "name" for his flooring business was on his card. So, just because he told me he owned a flooring business and drove a white van, I should believe him? 

Look at it this way.  If he had not given you his card, you never would have discovered all these red flags, right?  

If he had asked for yours instead, you admitted early in the thread that you would have given it, perhaps even gone out with him, without knowing anything about him!

I'm wondering what your experiences have been like when men have asked for your number?

Cause there are just as many commitmentphobes, players, scammers etc. who do nothing all day but collect women's phone numbers!

I'm dead serious.  I know men from other forums who admit to this!  PUA mentality. 

Thet get the number, then decide afterwards if they want to call. One guy bragged on the forum about collecting 15 numbers in one day, like it was this great accomplishment.  Lol. Too freaking funny.

Either way, whether he gives you his, or asks for yours, it's all a risk!  

If you're not up for taking that risk, then maybe you shouldn't be dating right now?  

Just sayin.  

But good luck..

Edited June 15, 2020 by poppyfields

[elaine567]

15 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

One guy bragged on the forum about collecting 15 numbers in one day, like it was this great accomplishment.  Lol. Too freaking funny.

Its a numbers game, another guy who did a lot of cold approaching said he needed 50 numbers on average to secure a proper date.
Flakers, uninterested, wrong numbers, time wasters.. etc.

[poppyfields]

24 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Its a numbers game, another guy who did a lot of cold approaching said he needed 50 numbers on average to secure a proper date.
Flakers, uninterested, wrong numbers, time wasters.. etc.

That's fine, I get that, but OP is talking about men having more interest simply because he asked for her number versus him asking for hers. 

Which is not true generally speaking.

Like you said elaine, it's a numbers game and he's collecting as many numbers as he can. 

That's what you are to him watercolors, a number.  

In both scenarios, take it as a compliment.  He finds you attractive.  That's about it at that stage.

And he's taking a big risk giving you his,  as you may not even call.  And he is the one left waiting and wondering 

It takes a very confident man to assume that risk imo..

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by poppyfields

[elaine567]

13 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Like you said elaine, it's a numbers game and he's collecting as many numbers as he can.

But we have no  evidence he is a number's game guy, he may have only EVER given his number out once and that is to the OP.
He may be a discerning kind of a guy. Who knows?
The OP has damned him, but she actually knows little or nothing about him.  

[poppyfields]

5 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

But we have no  evidence he is a number's game guy, he may have only EVER given his number out once and that is to the OP.
He may be a discerning kind of a guy. Who knows?
The OP has damned him, but she actually knows little or nothing about him.  

I agree she is damning him, that's my point.

I was speaking in general terms.  She was making assumptions about men (in general) being more interested simply because they asked for her number.

And men who gave her theirs (like this guy) being commitmentphobes, players. 

It's an inaccurate assumption.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by poppyfields

[CaliforniaGirl]

19 hours ago, CollinW said:

Not if you know what gaslighting means. If I were to create a post saying that women who don't shave are lazy and are bound to be bad mothers, when in reality I just simply want women to conform to my idea of femininity, you wouldn't write it off as me giving helpful advice. So let's not play stupid about the motivations here. 

Maybe so, but this thread wasn't created under the guise of giving men advice, it was created in order to shame the guy who didn't approach the way OP wanted. As is often done here on loveshack and other popular forums. You're not giving advice if you're dictating what actions a man should take solely for the purpose of validating your own fragile femininity. 

I don't think he cares, or anyone else for that matter. Here is a honest to God truth. A lot of men don't live their lives for the sole purpose of satiating a woman's requirements. If a man doesn't want to do something even if it means a few entitled women will reject it, I think we're okay with that.

Just like a woman who doesn't shave is okay with avoiding the men who feel it's required. He approached in a way where he expected her to appreciate the nuance of less direct advances. Instead she stripped him of his humanity and devolved him into nothing more than the sum of his very minor actions. That should have been the end of it. 

So then maybe it’s a case of, the styles aren’t a match. A guy who meets the OP’s general turnons/turnoffs and vice versa won’t think of everything as this degree of torture you’re describing.

[Watercolors]

Everyone who is now attacking ME in my own thread -- accusing me of being all sorts of ways -- seems to have conveniently forgotten how off-putting this guy's behavior was from the start. He ran up to me, grabbed my SUV keys FROM MY HAND and pretended to run off with them. Um, hello?! A complete stranger did this, not someone I have known for years. Then, he just jumped in and started messing with my jammed SUV lock WITHOUT ASKING ME FIRST if he could help. Then after he left, returned in his white van, threw his business card at me and told me he was wild and I'd get used to it. 

Have you all lost your minds? You actually think this is normal behavior? Really?! Yet, my rejection of that craziness means I"m stuck in the 1950s, or, that I secretly REALLY must like him, which is why I posted about him, or that I'm gaslighting him (?) which makes zero sense, or that I'm a Feminazi and emasculate ALL men who give me their phone number....

Only a couple of posters see the forest for the trees here: this guy acted totally inappropriately with me from the get-go. 

If he had been polite and respectful from the get-go, and asked me for my phone number, then yes, I would have given him my phone number. If he had been polite and respectful from the get-go and given me his phone number, I still would not have called him. 

Obviously, people here who've commented have different dating standards than I do. Fine. But, bashing me for my dating standards because you don't agree with me? Not fine. Also, not seeing how red-flaggy this guy's behavior was. Not fine. Sorry, but he's 50 years old, pretending to run off with a strange woman's set of car keys in a parking lot. And that's charming and endearing how, exactly?! 

Bash away at me. But I will still respect men MORE for asking me for my phone number based on my past dating experiences with men who gave me their phone numbers (none of those relationships led anywhere long-term). The relationships I've had where the man asked me for my phone number lasted a bit longer, but I felt like they were genuinely interested because they asked me for my phone number. If that means TO YOU that I'm a Feminazi who gaslights men, who follows dating rules from the 1950s, fine. That's just your opinion. 

But there was no way I was going to call this guy. Not after the way he acted. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Watercolors
grammar

[poppyfields]

On 6/9/2020 at 5:51 PM, Watercolors said:

Had he asked me for my phone number, I definitely would have given it to him. 

Watercolors, I'm confused.  If you found him so offputting, inappropriate, obnoxious and abnormal, why then would you have "definitely" given him your number if HE had asked?  ^^

I don't get that.  Sorry. 

And I think may be why folks have responded the way they have.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by poppyfields

[Watercolors]

27 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Watercolors, I'm confused.  If you found him so offputting, inappropriate, obnoxious and abnormal, why then would you have "definitely" given him your number if HE had asked?  ^^

I don't get that.  Sorry. 

And I think may be why folks have responded the way they have.

 

Did you read my post? I said if he hadn't acted the way that he did, and asked me for my phone number, I would have given it to him had the encounter gone totally different. There's nothing too be confused about. I was very clear about that from the start of my thread. Perhaps you spent too much time projecting your own dating standards on to my situation. 

So, if a complete stranger came up to you and acted that way, you'd find that endearing and charming and would call him? Then yeah, you and I have totally different dating standards. 

I find it funny that you speak for everyone. 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Watercolors

[poppyfields]

8 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

So, if a complete stranger came up to you and acted that way, you'd find that endearing and charming and would call him? Then yeah, you and I have totally different dating standards. 

I find it funny that you speak for everyone. 

 

No of course not.  I would not have wasted time talking to him at all.

And I definitely would not have given him my number if he asked. 😛

And no I don't speak for everyone, hardly. Which is why I said it "may" be why posters have responded the way they have. 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by poppyfields

[Watercolors]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

No of course not.  I would not have wasted time talking to him at all.

And I definitely would not have given him my number if he asked. 😛

And no I don't speak for everyone, hardly. Which is why I said it "may" be why posters have responded the way they have. 

 

 

So, why brow beat me for having healthy boundaries with strange men in public parking lots? 

Your reaction is EXACTLy how I reacted. And yet, according to YOU, I have unrealistic dating standards. 

Honestly, I don't understand how judgmental people are on here when you'd react the SAME way yet judge me as 'wrong' for reacting the same way. Makes no sense to me.