Guys should not give women their phone number

[beentheredonethat77]

The problem here is the original post and Title of this thread focuses on your distaste for him giving you his phone number vs asking you for yours.  You saw that as a sign of lazy dating etiquette etc among other things (nothing wrong with feeling that way)  however, -The issue is though that the way he acted in your eyes (creepy cocksure confidence/ grabbing your keys etc) well and truly overshadows the phone number semantics and belief that men should be asking for your number not providing you with theirs.

It is true that if he hadnt given you his business card you never would have been able to google and discover the red flags of his company not existing etc.  If he'd been less creepy and you'd been inclined to give him your phone number, you never would have found these red flags.   What you experienced with googling him and discovering red flags is precisely the reason i prefer for men to give me their cards than ask for mine.

 

[poppyfields]

18 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

So, why brow beat me for having healthy boundaries with strange men in public parking lots? 

Your reaction is EXACTLy how I reacted. And yet, according to YOU, I have unrealistic dating standards. 

Honestly, I don't understand how judgmental people are on here when you'd react the SAME way yet judge me as 'wrong' for reacting the same way. Makes no sense to me. 

I never said you have unrealistic dating standards, you must be mixing me up with another poster.

Nor am I brow beating you OR judging you, and I'm sorry you interpreted my posts that way.

I also asked you a few questions which you failed to answer. 

My last question asked why you said you would give him your phone number had he asked when you found him so appalling, but you did explain that one so thanks. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by poppyfields

[Watercolors]

If he hadn't acted like a complete creepy weirdo and asked me for my phone number and done the complete opposite like George Costanza on Seinfeld on the "Opposite Day" episode, he'd had a better chance of me giving him my phone number. But as I stated a few times already, his red flag behavior was off-putting and the piece de resistance was him throwing his business card at me, telling me how wild he is, and how I'd get used to it. Um, yeah, that's charming and endearing behavior that would make any single woman swoon! Not! 

There was another man in the parking lot that day who exited a red convertible beetle. He was dressed conservatively and was very good looking. I commented on his nice car and he responded, "My wife picked it out for me." We chatted about public radio and hardware and then went our separate ways. Sans wife, he is exactly the kind of man I'd date. He was respectful, civilized and definitely not someone who'd grab a strange woman's keys and pretend to run off with them. Maybe that's cute when you're 15, but not when you're 50. Its creepy and what if he HAD run off with my keys then I would have been screwed. Anyway. 

You didn't ask me questions. You accused me of liking this man and accused me of having high dating standards, and then criticized me for being single for a reason and not being honest in my own thread. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Watercolors
tv show

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Did you read my post? I said if he hadn't acted the way that he did, and asked me for my phone number, I would have given it to him had the encounter gone totally different. There's nothing too be confused about. I was very clear about that from the start of my thread. Perhaps you spent too much time projecting your own dating standards on to my situation. 

So, if a complete stranger came up to you and acted that way, you'd find that endearing and charming and would call him? Then yeah, you and I have totally different dating standards. 

I find it funny that you speak for everyone. 

 

FWIW, I'm no feminazi, I'm not very big and I've never been in a physical fight, but I'll go on record right here as saying if some strange grown man came up to me and grabbed my car keys I'd kick him so hard in the stones he'd never see again.

I think the way that guy acted is mental.

Edited June 16, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Watercolors]

55 minutes ago, beentheredonethat77 said:

The problem here is the original post and Title of this thread focuses on your distaste for him giving you his phone number vs asking you for yours.  You saw that as a sign of lazy dating etiquette etc among other things (nothing wrong with feeling that way)  however, -The issue is though that the way he acted in your eyes (creepy cocksure confidence/ grabbing your keys etc) well and truly overshadows the phone number semantics and belief that men should be asking for your number not providing you with theirs.

It is true that if he hadnt given you his business card you never would have been able to google and discover the red flags of his company not existing etc.  If he'd been less creepy and you'd been inclined to give him your phone number, you never would have found these red flags.   What you experienced with googling him and discovering red flags is precisely the reason i prefer for men to give me their cards than ask for mine.

 

 It's not a problem. It's part of the context of the entire situation. Yes, I do believe that men are lazy for just giving women their phone number instead of asking women for theirs instead. That's my dating standard. It may not be yours or anyone else's in this thread, but it's mine. I don't like it when men hand me their phone number. 

And while it turned out to be fortunate that he did give me his business card so I could Google his name and find out what I did, that doesn't negate the point of my OP which is, I think men aren't really interested in a woman when they give them their phone number, instead of asking the women for their phone number. 

Trying to tell me its irrelevant to my OP doesn't make sense because it is relevant. Its how the situation played out. My initial impression of him was negative, esp. because of the way he threw his business card at me as though I was just an option. That's how *I* interpret a man who offers me his phone number - that I'm just another option to him. Rather, if he asks me for mine, I don't feel like an option (even if I am). I feel like he is actually interested and there's nothing wrong with that belief. You don't have to agree with it. And believing that doesn't mean I have zero chance in dating, or that I'm stuck in the 1950s, or that I gaslight men, or am a Feminazi. It means, I would like to be pursued in what I believe is a romantic way. I don't think it's romantic AT ALL to have a guy offer me his phone number. I think its tacky and not for me. I posted about this experience because it was crazy and was interested to hear what people thought. 

[poppyfields]

9 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

You didn't ask me questions. You accused me of liking this man and accused me of having high dating standards, and then criticized me for being single for a reason and not being honest in my own thread. 

Huh?  SMH, lol

But okay, whatever you say.  I have neither the desire or energy to argue about it.

Best of luck. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

FWIW, I'm no feminazi, I'm not very big and I've never been in a physical fight, but I'll go on record right here as saying if some strange grown man came up to me and grabbed my car keys I'd kick him so hard in the stones he'd never see again.

I think the way that guy acted is mental.

Agree!!  After stealing my keys, I would have called the cops! 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by poppyfields

[snowcones]

Whenever a guy has given me his number in the past, I have responded immediately by saying "And here's mine too" and I MAKE him take it down if we are in person.  None have ever refused to take it down.  And when online, I've already typed it so it's there.   If he doesn't call me first, then I don't bother to ever call him.

Edited June 16, 2020 by snowcones

[Watercolors]

4 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Agree!!  After stealing my keys, I would have called the cops! 

 

I really didn't know how to react because it all happened so fast and was in the middle of the afternoon. Its never happened to me before. Him giving his phone number to me on his "business card" is why I started this thread. I probably could have started a different thread about the way he acted. But it was strange that he chose to drive up to where I was parked, to try to continue the interaction with me. 
 

4 hours ago, snowcones said:

Whenever a guy has given me his number in the past, I have responded immediately by saying "And here's mine too" and I MAKE him take it down if we are in person.  None have ever refused to take it down.  And when online, I've already typed it so it's there.   If he doesn't call me first, then I don't bother to ever call him.

I have done that too. When I was actively online dating, I ran into the problem of men just using my cellphone to text me but never actually call me. The few times they did call, was just to break the ice before the first date. But I never felt on equal ground when the man gave me his phone number first. I felt like he viewed me as an option, which, with online dating, I was. It just didn't feel great knowing I was #2, or #5 for some man I paid an online dating website to connect me with.

Felt like such a waste of money and time. They never called me first. Never. I always called first and I hated that about online dating. That's why I feel so adamant that men are lazy to just hand out their phone number to women, instead of asking the woman for her phone number. Sure, he may be asking five women for their phone number. I get it. But my point is, I just don't trust men (based on my *own* personal dating history) who think giving me their phone number first, means they think I'm special. They don't. I'm just an option, a possibility. And I don't like how that makes me feel. 
 

[introverted1]

The above has not been my experience at all, especially as it relates to OLD.  Men typically offer their number first as a safety measure because they are aware that women (generally speaking) have the greater risk online.  They will say something like "I'd love to talk to you over the phone.  My number is xxx-xxx-xxxx if you feel comfortable calling.  If not, we can keep texting through the app." 

(This isn't the thread for the merits or lack thereof of OLD but the entire point of it is to provide options that might not otherwise exist.)

I understand that your experiences are yours, and no one is going to argue that what you say you've experienced isn't true, but I think you overlook two things: 1) the attitude you bring to an encounter (wherever and however it occurs) often affects both perception and outcome; and 2) your experiences are not universal.  Just because men who've given you their number did not measure up (in your eyes) does not mean that there is something universally wrong with men who offer their number to women.

[QuietRiot]

17 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

The above has not been my experience at all, especially as it relates to OLD.  Men typically offer their number first as a safety measure because they are aware that women (generally speaking) have the greater risk online.  They will say something like "I'd love to talk to you over the phone.  My number is xxx-xxx-xxxx if you feel comfortable calling.  If not, we can keep texting through the app." 

(This isn't the thread for the merits or lack thereof of OLD but the entire point of it is to provide options that might not otherwise exist.)

I understand that your experiences are yours, and no one is going to argue that what you say you've experienced isn't true, but I think you overlook two things: 1) the attitude you bring to an encounter (wherever and however it occurs) often affects both perception and outcome; and 2) your experiences are not universal.  Just because men who've given you their number did not measure up (in your eyes) does not mean that there is something universally wrong with men who offer their number to women.

I've stopped giving my number to women I meet online...because they never call it and all of a sudden my robocalls blow up. So I wind up refusing to do so, and I try to get their number. I think some of them are bots.

[snowcones]

6 hours ago, Watercolors said:

I have done that too. When I was actively online dating, I ran into the problem of men just using my cellphone to text me but never actually call me.
 

I forgot to add that when I was on the dating app, when I gave them my number in response to them giving me theirs, I'd also say that I prefer a phone call first before texting, and of course some of them ignore that and text first anyway, and when they do, I did NOT respond to the text, I went BACK to the dating site and messaged them to remind them that I won't text until I get a phone call.  This weeds out the incessant texters, as they will get mad and stop talking to me because I said this, but the guys who are real and serious and not afraid to talk on the phone will say okay and give me a phone call right away or as soon as they can.  No argument.  Of course the guys who called me first before texting were the best, but that doesn't always happen.  I know it's a lot of work trying to get guys to be gentlemanly and respect your boundaries, and this is just one of the reasons why I quit online dating.  The men there have too many bad habits for a woman to deal with.

Edited June 16, 2020 by snowcones

[Fox Sake]

45 minutes ago, snowcones said:

I forgot to add that when I was on the dating app, when I gave them my number in response to them giving me theirs, I'd also say that I prefer a phone call first before texting, and of course some of them ignore that and text first anyway, and when they do, I did NOT respond to the text, I went BACK to the dating site and messaged them to remind them that I won't text until I get a phone call.  This weeds out the incessant texters, as they will get mad and stop talking to me because I said this, but the guys who are real and serious and not afraid to talk on the phone will say okay and give me a phone call right away or as soon as they can.  No argument.  Of course the guys who called me first before texting were the best, but that doesn't always happen.  I know it's a lot of work trying to get guys to be gentlemanly and respect your boundaries, and this is just one of the reasons why I quit online dating.  The men there have too many bad habits for a woman to deal with.

This is a tough one ... I always believe in phoneing but some people like to text first and it makes me feel quite awkward when they say they aren’t ready for a phone call. It almost sets the tone and is a bit off putting. 

[snowcones]

1 minute ago, Fox Sake said:

This is a tough one ... I always believe in phoneing but some people like to text first and it makes me feel quite awkward when they say they aren’t ready for a phone call. It almost sets the tone and is a bit off putting. 

Yeah I know.... I think the best bet is to always ask - would you prefer a text or phone call first?

[Fox Sake]

1 minute ago, snowcones said:

Yeah I know.... I think the best bet is to always ask - would you prefer a text or phone call first?

I agree it’s best to ask. Texting is cheap IMO.  Tone of voice , laughter and Chemistry dynamic holds much more value for me in judging If someone is going to be a possibly compatible.  If a girl wants just to text and not speak on the phone I tend to feel very incompatible, especially, If it drags on with stupid simple messages that make it really hard to find out much about that person, I start to see them as slightly stunted on a communication level. I hate texting but opening one is like getting a parcel in the mail 

[snowcones]

19 minutes ago, Fox Sake said:

I agree it’s best to ask. Texting is cheap IMO.  Tone of voice , laughter and Chemistry dynamic holds much more value for me in judging If someone is going to be a possibly compatible.  If a girl wants just to text and not speak on the phone I tend to feel very incompatible, especially, If it drags on with stupid simple messages that make it really hard to find out much about that person, I start to see them as slightly stunted on a communication level. I hate texting but opening one is like getting a parcel in the mail 

Same, totally agree with you.    Those people who "hate talking on the phone".......it's their right to feel this way, but romantically-speaking, they are not going to be people I'm going to get along with well, so it's best that we figure this out early and go our separate ways. 

[SumGuy]

10 hours ago, Watercolors said:

... But I never felt on equal ground when the man gave me his phone number first. I felt like he viewed me as an option, which, with online dating, I was. It just didn't feel great knowing I was #2, or #5 for some man I paid an online dating website to connect me with.

Interesting.  I always gave out my number, and full name, first on OLD and never ever asked for hers.  It really comes down to safety, as I've said before with your phone number and area you live (even if you don't give me you real first name) 80% sure can find where you live (and 60% sure where you work) and 100% sure if you own a home, all for free and that is nothing compared to people who know this stuff...as in my work from time to time have had to hire such folks.  So the idea for me of giving out my number first is to put her on stronger footing than me.  Which seems to be how these women viewed it if ti came up.

But the guy you met, I believe was just playing the numbers and viewed you as just an interchangeable option (to put it nicely) but for reasons other than him handing you his card, just the whole nature of the interaction and context.  

Felt like such a waste of money and time. They never called me first. Never. I always called first and I hated that about online dating. That's why I feel so adamant that men are lazy to just hand out their phone number to women, instead of asking the woman for her phone number. Sure, he may be asking five women for their phone number. I get it. But my point is, I just don't trust men (based on my *own* personal dating history) who think giving me their phone number first, means they think I'm special. They don't. I'm just an option, a possibility. And I don't like how that makes me feel.

To each their own, and your feelings are your feelings.  But think you get giving a number versus asking for a number has very little connection at all to how he views you.  I tend to have the opposite view, probably from all the PUA mentality guys have met over my decades.  Those guys never gave out their number and certainly never a real full name.  They called back everyone.  All other things being equal, I think the mere fact of him giving you his number versus asking for yours is a poor filter.

 

As to talking on the phone before meeting someone, I definitively do not like it.  I get I am in the minority on that.  I find having a personal conversation on the phone with someone never met to be very awkward without body language and visual cues.  

Also in my experience, and this is purely anecdotal and not statistically significant, all the women who were big on the phone call made it in to some sort of job interview type scenario, which for me is off putting, and in person they were no better.  So for me the phone call insistent became a kind of filter....though I still spoke over the phone and there was one woman who admitted the call was because that was one of the things you were "supposed to do"...that was a fun call...and she was fun in person...even though the chemistry was not there.  I think an important caveat to all that is after 2 or 4 good back and for texts I always asked to meet...tried to never wait more than a week to ask and never planned the meet more than 4 days out if possible. 

I'm of the view there really is no substitute at all for meeting in person...phone calls are ehh to me...but I guess I put some stock in messaging as I have a geeky/intellectual side and the ability to express oneself well in writing has been a filter that works for me.

[SumGuy]

2 hours ago, snowcones said:

Same, totally agree with you.    Those people who "hate talking on the phone".......it's their right to feel this way, but romantically-speaking, they are not going to be people I'm going to get along with well, so it's best that we figure this out early and go our separate ways. 

Agree...even though I am one of those people who dislike talking on the phone until I've met you.  Luckily it seems, even if I am in the minority, there are plenty of women who have felt the same way. Or maybe I'm all that and they just overlooked this failing in me.     I do however, like a person who can express themselves well in writing, messaging more than texting, so I give more weight to that then maybe I should.

Although, I am not person who likes pen pal relationships, go straight for meeting in person as there really is no substitute in my opinion. But I am coming at this from the mentality of a 50+ year old whose formative communication style was in person, we had no smart or cell phones, phone bills used to be expensive, etc. etc. We just arranged to meet and met.

[SumGuy]

3 hours ago, snowcones said:

Same, totally agree with you.    Those people who "hate talking on the phone".......it's their right to feel this way, but romantically-speaking, they are not going to be people I'm going to get along with well, so it's best that we figure this out early and go our separate ways. 

Agree...even though I am one of those people who dislike talking on the phone until I've met you.  Luckily it seems, even if I am in the minority, there are plenty of women who have felt the same way. Or maybe I'm all that and they just overlooked this failing in me.     Although I have never turned down a request for a phone call and have previosuly describe my bad experiences with most women who are phone call first.   I do however, like a person who can express themselves well in writing, messaging more than texting, so I give more weight to that then maybe I should.

Although, I am not person who likes pen pal relationships, go straight for meeting in person as there really is no substitute in my opinion. But I am coming at this from the mentality of a 50+ year old whose formative communication style was in person, we had no smart or cell phones, phone bills used to be expensive, etc. etc. We just arranged to meet and met.

Edited June 16, 2020 by SumGuy

[Hopeful30]

On 6/9/2020 at 8:51 PM, Watercolors said:

...because it makes them seem "lazy," like the woman isn't worth the effort of asking her for her phone number. Sure, guys offer their phone number to women because they are shy, its 2020 and social media and online dating has changed courtship somewhat, or they are trying to impress the woman with their business card to show her that they are gainfully employed, therefore worth dating. 

Yesterday, when I was at the store, the lock on my SUV suddenly decided to stop working. A guy walked by and then grabbed my keys and pretended to run off with them but then came back. He tried to fix my lock and told me he has his own flooring business. He did fix the lock (which was great) and then he left. I was sitting in my SUV responding to some texts and he drives up in his business van and hands me his business card and tells me to call him to go out. I told him that I don't drink or smoke and am fairly low key. He responded, "Oh well I'm a wild guy you'll get used to it." Um, what?! 

I thanked him for his business card and then threw it away. I just think if he's that cocky, he probably gives his business card out to a lot of women. Had he asked me for my phone number, I definitely would have given it to him. Why can't men just ask women for their phone number anymore? Even if men give women their business card, there's a 50/50 chance she won't call which is the same if a he asks for her phone number -- she may reject him. Is romance dead?! I think it's sweet for a man to ask a woman for her phone number. Where are those men? 

Honey when you find them, give me a shout! Real men are a scarcity these days.

[Fresh_Start]

10 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Real men are a scarcity these days.

We're here.  We're just up to our eyeballs in sh**ty women or married. 

Don't lose hope.  Even two ships passing in the dark are bound to bump into one another eventually if we sail these waters often enough and the wind blows just right.   

[Hopeful30]

1 minute ago, Fresh_Start said:

We're here.  We're just up to our eyeballs in sh**ty women or married. 

Don't lose hope.  Even two ships passing in the dark are bound to bump into one another eventually if we sail these waters often enough and the wind blows just right.   

Leave it to fate you say. That fate has left me single for many years. 

[Watercolors]

5 hours ago, SumGuy said:

All other things being equal, I think the mere fact of him giving you his number versus asking for yours is a poor filter.

Why? My personal experience has SHOWN me that the men who I accepted phone numbers from, never considered me a priority to begin with. If that happens once, it's not considered a pattern. But this has happened to me a lot over the years, so I consider it a very reliable pattern of determining a man's level of interest in me. I view their phone number hand-off without asking me for mine first, as a tell. It tells me that their interest level in me is so-so, not more than that. It's about first impressions for me.  And, like this crazy experience in my OP, it does not make me feel like I"m the man's priority right from the start. Does it predict how they will treat me if we date? No, but it gives me a hint of where I'm starting from. And, if I believe that I'm starting from the standpoint of being just another female option, well, I don't like those odds. 

5 hours ago, SumGuy said:

I am coming at this from the mentality of a 50+ year old whose formative communication style was in person, we had no smart or cell phones, phone bills used to be expensive, etc. etc. We just arranged to meet and met.

Look, I grew up in Generation X like you without smart or cell phones, expensive phone bills, no voicemail. I dated men who lived in Ireland. Talk about expensive phone bills! The letters they wrote to me took 2-3 weeks. I miss letter writing. Now that's courtship. Writing letters to each other abroad, 5 hour phone calls to each other from different time zones.  Dating was so much easier in high school and college before all of this technology interfered. You just arranged to meet each other and met. Or, you went out with groups of friends to each other's homes and hung out. No weird instant messaging playing games with each other. Writing each other notes or even letters (locally). Sending each other cards in the mail, etc. 

1 hour ago, Hopeful30 said:

Honey when you find them, give me a shout! Real men are a scarcity these days.

Trust me, I will create a website once I find them (not an online dating website, ha). Yes, real men are a scarcity these days. I agree with you 100%. 

27 minutes ago, Fresh_Start said:

We're here.  We're just up to our eyeballs in sh**ty women or married. 

Don't lose hope.  Even two ships passing in the dark are bound to bump into one another eventually if we sail these waters often enough and the wind blows just right.   

We're here too! We're just up to our eyeballs in sh**ty men or married. Your point?    

24 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Leave it to fate you say. That fate has left me single for many years. 

Fate. Ugh. I don't believe in Fate. I believe the children are our future. Teach them well, and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside....

But I do NOT believe in Fate unless that's the first name of a tall Celtic single man who has duel citizenship with the U.S. and Ireland, speaks Gaelic and Chinese, is funny as hell, and makes a good living and has a wide social circle. I'd believe in that Fate.   

[Fresh_Start]

11 minutes ago, Hopeful30 said:

Leave it to fate you say. That fate has left me single for many years. 

A lot of it is up to fate, unfortunately; however, the part that we do have control over is the decision to keep on sailing and even shining our searchlights to find one another fully knowing that we'll be attracting a lot of vermin when we do.  Fate has dealt me a particularly cruel hand and taken more from me than some people will ever have, but the one thing it can never take from me is the will to continue and to never give up.

Keep sailing and take comfort in the knowledge that there are other ships out there looking for you just as surely as you're looking for them. 🙂

[Hopeful30]

3 minutes ago, Fresh_Start said:

A lot of it is up to fate, unfortunately; however, the part that we do have control over is the decision to keep on sailing and even shining our searchlights to find one another fully knowing that we'll be attracting a lot of vermin when we do.  Fate has dealt me a particularly cruel hand and taken more from me than some people will ever have, but the one thing it can never take from me is the will to continue and to never give up.

Keep sailing and take comfort in the knowledge that there are other ships out there looking for you just as surely as you're looking for them. 🙂

And how long have you been looking? As in, how old are you?