Was I the problem in our relationship?

[Girlwithapast]

Thanks for everyone’s input and opinions. Really helps me

[DKT3]

7 minutes ago, Girlwithapast said:

Thanks for everyone’s input and opinions. Really helps me

Just take this with you from what I said. This relationship didn't work out for multiple reasons,  mainly because you two are too far apart in your core values. Eventually, you will meet THE guy, and if you conduct yourself the way you did in this one it will end the same way. Grow from your mistakes and flaws in this relationship and stop focusing on who was more responsible for it ending.

[Alexa 95]

20 hours ago, Girlwithapast said:

Would love honest And objective input from strangers about my previous relationship which didn’t end well. My mind has a hard time coming to peace. 

 

I know it’s not completely objective because you’ll only hear my side of the story, but just hearing opinions from people who don’t know me would be helpful. My friends and family are always “on my side” validating my feelings and decisions, nobody has ever told me otherwise, but now As I look back I wonder what was actually the truth.

my ex and I met Over the internet. We talked for a couple years before meeting in person. I was so emotionally attached that I would ignore people in front of me while texting him,basically living in the virtual world of a dream long distance boyfriend I’ve never met in real life. I think it was the same for him. When we met, it was like trying to get to know the person in real life all over again. After a couple years of that, we started dating officially. I quickly learned that what I “expected” him to be like in real life wasn’t what he actually was. All those years of communicating over the phone was just me being attached to someone who could listen to my life drama and troubles. I had a hard time actually falling in love with the person he was in real life. 
 

In fact as easy as it was for us to communicate over the phone in the past, we had a lot of trouble communicating as real life lovers or even just friends. He showed me that all he seemed to want was just having a girlfriend by his side, without the connnection part of the relationship. He could care less about conversations, making eye contact, resolving fights or conflicts. He was deep in his phone and iPad world of virtual games, etc, anytime we go out to eat his attention would be on the phone. We couldn’t even talk about anything, in fact he showed no interest in it. It was like it took us a year to get to the point where we were a 90 year old couple (in a bad way). No chemistry, no freshness, and I started to turn into a nagging freak as well. I had issues with him coming back from work and just immersing himself in iPad games day after day. Even when I’m talking to him, he’s still playing the game lol. I wond3ed what his life goals were...just have a girlfriend, a job, and games? I had trouble accepting who he was. When I decided to go on a trip to Europe after finishing school and wanted him to come with me, he showed disinterest but stil came with me, and during the trip was a lot of complaining. Little things get to him and he wears it on his face. I had trouble with that aspect of his personality too. So AS I dated him and got to know him more, the less I liked his personality. It was like I resented him for being him. I also resented his way of thinking of our future careers, with me  having the potential to make more money than him, he would often say things like “ha ha I joke with my friend today that we can do whatever w elike and our wives are the breadwinner” or somehow expect that I will be helping his mom financially out in the future once we’re married. It’s almost like he expected all my money to be his And his family’s in the future ..,which doesn’t make sense to me. Sorry if this is tmi, but he also expected me to do things I’m not comfortable with sexually. He never forced me. But he wanted other forms of pleasure, and then would say “yeah my GIRLFRIEND isn’t willing to do this for me”. As if It’s my job. 
 

all of my resentment probably led to his resentment towards me. For example in the beginning he would be willing to do things like help me move, or help my family oht with random things when we visited, but towards the end he would show attitude. And he would say “I don’t want TO JUST hang out at your parents house” when I only got t see my parents once a year basically and hes just thinking about how bored he is. 
 

To be fair though, I nev3 truly respected him in the relationship either, and I think it’s because the way he presents himself to me and to others. Like when we go hang out with my friends hell literalk( just sit there with his phone and play while I talk to my friend. It’s almost like....he lowers himself as my pet ??? At least that’s what it felt like. And then at home, he becomes this lazy person who just cares about eating Whatever and then Playing games. But he does have good side to him, he’s loyal, has a job. We just did not have the right kind of communication, chemistry, or connection?
 

I think my friends could see we had issues, but to this day, I can’t tell if I’m in the wrong or if I’m right.

 

i also have a question for you guys, did I cheat in the end? Is it considered cheating? Near the end, I was really having doubts, couldn’t see us getting married, etc. I talked with him and he did t have much to say either, we decided to take a a week long break. Then we got back together but at this point ....I could tell I dint have much love for him anymore. I started hanging out with a coworker of mine who’s a guy. I started developing feelings and excitement hanging out with him. We never got physical, but we saw each other everyday. It was during this time that I called it off with my ex completely, and found myself again as a happy single woman. My coworker ended up being a fling, maybe rebound? Not sure. But is this considered cheating? 
 

I would love an overall analysis or general opinion after reading my story, and thank you for reading it . It’s a long one lol.
 

should I feel guilty? Should I feel happy? 
 

thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

 

You sound more like his mum than anything else. Moaning about him playing on video games all day.

Honestly it seems like both of you were using each other.  You were  together for the sake of having someone as opposed to being ok on your own.

The fact he paid more attention to anything other than you, was a sign he was just not into you the way you would want your partner to be into you! But i guess it doesnt matter as you didnt like him much either. Im surprised  you guys even lasted as long as you did 

The fact you're asking at the end if you should feel guilty means you dont really think you should.

I think you  can call it emotional cheating what you did. 

He was a bad match for you and vice versa. You just wanted different things in life. 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Alexa 95

[Girlwithapast]

Now I think it’s emotional cheating too, something I NEVER would’ve thought is cheating previously. I used to think well as long as I don’t get physical, it’s fine. But if you hang out with someone of the opposite sex and you’re not sure if you may develop feelings of attraction, that’s a red flag to begin with. The line is difficult to draw once you start hanging out. Maybe the first time is fine, and then it continues to happen, THATS when the connection starts. Talking to someone You’re connected to can be as bad as Physical cheating. I think it’s also tough to not let it happen once feelings for your partner dies down. 
 

 

[Alexa 95]

4 minutes ago, Girlwithapast said:

Now I think it’s emotional cheating too, something I NEVER would’ve thought is cheating previously. I used to think well as long as I don’t get physical, it’s fine. But if you hang out with someone of the opposite sex and you’re not sure if you may develop feelings of attraction, that’s a red flag to begin with. The line is difficult to draw once you start hanging out. Maybe the first time is fine, and then it continues to happen, THATS when the connection starts. Talking to someone You’re connected to can be as bad as Physical cheating. I think it’s also tough to not let it happen once feelings for your partner dies down. 
 

 

For a woman to develop feelings for another guy and to continue to see him, it is very significant .

Especially since females tend to develop connections by using their minds first and foremost.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

One thing I think you're focusing on is whether you cheated. All cheating is bad, but I'm wondering if somewhere deep inside you feel like if you can take the blame for the demise of this relationship that it puts you back into a position of control. That feeling might be what you're really seeking here to be able to move past this.

I agree with other posters here that the biggest mistake you made was trying to mold the IRL relationship to the one you developed by phone. Really the phone relationship was all fantasy on both sides. Your ex seems to live in a permanent fantasy world anyhow as indicated by always being fixated on his device rather than engage anyone IRL. This was doomed from the start.

It's easy to project certain qualities on a partner whom you've never met IRL. Sometimes we are projecting aspects of ourselves onto that person; thinking we are in love with them, we are actually in love with ourselves. Then, when finally meeting IRL, we realize the disparity. If you wanted to look more deeply at that, watch videos by Iyanla Vanzant or Sam Vaknin.

You did try to mold your IRL relationship to the fantasy one you developed. That's like believing a Disney story can come alive. That was a mistake but you didn't know better at the time. You're not the first to make this mistake. It happens often to people who are catfished, for example.

I think one of the best things you could do for yourself is discover why developing a fantasy relationship was so much more appealing to you than a real life one. (Hint: possibly attachment issues or other if you're willing to go deep on this for your own self-discovery). Don't beat yourself up too badly. It was a learning opportunity for you (and him).

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel
Typo

[DKT3]

7 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

One thing I think you're focusing on is whether you cheated. All cheating is bad, but I'm wondering if somewhere deep inside you feel like if you can take the blame for the demise of this relationship that it puts you back into a position of control. 

 

This is what type A control freaks do, haha I know too well. The idea that we can control other behavior with our behavior be it positive or negative. 

She is to blame for the way this relationship ended,  not solely but still responsible. 

This is what so many women do,  it happens more frequently in affair but it also happens in normal relationships. 

She meets a guy, takes bits if who he is conjures up the majority and in her mind creates this perfect guy. Then when reality starts to conflict with that creation she tries harder. 

It's not the guys fault because let's face it, he is who he always was she just finally realized it and realized she couldn't nag him into that creation of hers.

[healing light]

I don't think the friendship with the co-worker was cheating at the end. It sounded like any male who gave you a lick of attention after that lump of a boyfriend was bound to have produced some kind of excitement on your end. You didn't get physical with him, you ended it when you realized you were capable of developing deeper feelings for someone else unexpectedly, and you were relieved to be single. Not cheating, imo.

You were both too young to be so complacent in that blah of a relationship.

Edited June 16, 2020 by healing light

[DKT3]

1 hour ago, healing light said:

I don't think the friendship with the co-worker was cheating at the end. It sounded like any male who gave you a lick of attention after that lump of a boyfriend was bound to have produced some kind of excitement on your end. You didn't get physical with him, you ended it when you realized you were capable of developing deeper feelings for someone else unexpectedly, and you were relieved to be single. Not cheating, imo.

You were both too young to be so complacent in that blah of a relationship.

Yeah, no. It's about her lack of boundaries.  You see this is a problem, no matter how someone else is, it shouldn't make you compromise your morals and boundaries.  She cheated because what she did bothers her.  If it didn't she wouldn't be here talking about it. 

Cheating goes far beyond physical.  And really seems to be a double standard for so many people.  Those who flirt and carry on yet pops a top if thier partner does the same.

Emotional closeness with anyone not your partner is far more dangerous to the relationship then any physical encounter.  It can change the dynamics of a relationship and be ignored as the cause because since it's not physical it's not cheating..right?

So if your boyfriend/husband was hanging out with a woman he was attracted to,  flirting, texting and carrying on you would be ok with it because  a) he doesn't think you're a good partner and b) it wasn't physical. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by DKT3

[HadMeOverABarrel]

@DKT3 It doesn't have to be women though. These things are not always gender specific. 😉 I actually lifted my comment about control from something I heard last night on one of Vaknin's videos. This part of his video pertained to portraying a male narcissist preserving a fantasy of power through the aforementioned method directly following the victim's attempts of relationship escape.

This is not to say there's any degree of NPD at play here, but the minds of both NPD and non-NPD can perform the same mental gymnastics when it comes to ego preservation.

Also, I'm not a fan of fault finding. Relationships are too complicated to pin all the "fault" singularly on one party. Every one of us brings our own story to the table, which is based on our past experiences. As I've said before, we are re-enacting those same stories but with different cast members. I have my current therapist to thank for teaching me how to see this.

(FWIW: She learned from a book Radical Forgiveness. I've had it for years and may almost have worked up the nerve to finally complete its exercises. She tells me every couple weeks to work on it. I recommend it to whomever else wants to work through their baggage.)

Rather relationships are like mirrors we hold up to one another. At times we project parts of ourselves (often unconsciously) onto the other party. We make assumptions based on previous experiences with unrelated parties. Sometimes we learn what we are not by observing others. A very wise mental health professional told me many years back that sometimes we learn what we are by experiencing what we are not. My current counselor says that any time we rub up against another's rough edges (i.e. are triggered), it identifies something within ourself that needs too be worked on and healed.

[DKT3]

It not about finding fault,  which is my point. It's about recognizing what negative impact your behavior had on that relationship so you don't repeat it.  

I say women because women are more likely to create and romanticize "perfect" men without actually knowing the men. Then the period of discovery comes and she has to reconcile that image with reality.  Trouble...then they repeat.  

That's exactly what OP did in her two failures back to back.  Until she recognizes that pattern,  she will continue to repeat it.  

Along the way, they fail to understand how they contribute to the dynamic of their relationships. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

45 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

It not about finding fault,  which is my point. It's about recognizing what negative impact your behavior had on that relationship so you don't repeat it.  

I say women because women are more likely to create and romanticize "perfect" men without actually knowing the men. Then the period of discovery comes and she has to reconcile that image with reality.  Trouble...then they repeat.

The pattern is the story. The romantisized part is looking for a different outcome to the story (rooted in our childhood experiences with our primary caregivers). Perhaps women have a romantisized version (e.g. codependency wherein they try to "love" the man into a different outcome from the story rooted in childhood)...while men take out the anger at their mothers/caregiverd on sex partners and romantic partners.

Either way, it takes a good dose of self-: reflection>realization>actualization to see the story is within ourself, and to then to stop projecting it onto others. Only then do we understand that we have to turn inwards to heal it, and the main character to focus on is ourself (rather than romantic partner, child, whomever else we believe is our 'source'). 

We become mother/father to ourself (or inner child), and nurture/give to ourself what we've been craving from romantic partners. This is not only a cognitive exercise, but also a literal rewiring of the brain through repetitive healthy patterns consciously replacing old patterns...and I'm sure more to it that I'm still learning.

I believe after one has mastered this, they are wholly ready to co-create interdependently with a life partner in the most healthy way. I also believe only a small segment of population are committed to rising to this level of awareness (unfortunately). 

[Girlwithapast]

It’s interesting to hear differing opinions about whether what I did constituted as cheating. I do go back and forth sometimes because it was both the situation of our relationship, and the situation of my work life balance, the guy, and maybe that I deep down wanted the relationship to end at that point that served as the catalyst for the break up. 

At that time I had about 20 diff coworkers that were around my age. We alternated day and night shifts, spent 70-80 hours at work per week, so all of us basically lived together lol. Not really but we spent a lot of time together. Being young and socialable,  it was always happy hour, hang out After work, and I basically got along really well with 5 people (2 guys, 3 girls) ONE of which was the guy I developed feelings for. So after work, whether it was 5pm or 2pm depending our shifts we would get food together. We’d send a group Facebook text out and whoever could come came. It would alternate, sometimes me and one of my girlfriends, other time me and the 2 guys, or me and one of the guys. Anyways, it was like we were one big happy family like tv show Friends. I allowed myself to be happy surrounded by people I enjoyed being around. It was during this time that I found myself talking to him more and just looking forward to seeing him, heart pumping faster when he talked to me, our personalities had a s*** ton of chemistry...even at work. So when I started realizing this, I thought to myself s***, how did this even happen. I couldn’t control my feelings, my excitement, although I could control my behavior  of no physical contact. 
 

Although I’m not trying to find an excuse for myself, I do wonder, how could I have known ahead of time?
 

And sometimes I even thank the appearance of the guy in my life because I would’ve probably continued this unhealthy relationship that was based On a poor and false foundation On my part and ruined both of our futures, whereas now I can retrospectively analyze it for what it truly was.

[DKT3]

1 hour ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

The pattern is the story. The romantisized part is looking for a different outcome to the story (rooted in our childhood experiences with our primary caregivers). Perhaps women have a romantisized version (e.g. codependency wherein they try to "love" the man into a different outcome from the story rooted in childhood)...while men take out the anger at their mothers/caregiverd on sex partners and romantic partners.

Either way, it takes a good dose of self-: reflection>realization>actualization to see the story is within ourself, and to then to stop projecting it onto others. Only then do we understand that we have to turn inwards to heal it, and the main character to focus on is ourself (rather than romantic partner, child, whomever else we believe is our 'source'). 

We become mother/father to ourself (or inner child), and nurture/give to ourself what we've been craving from romantic partners. This is not only a cognitive exercise, but also a literal rewiring of the brain through repetitive healthy patterns consciously replacing old patterns...and I'm sure more to it that I'm still learning.

I believe after one has mastered this, they are wholly ready to co-create interdependently with a life partner in the most healthy way. I also believe only a small segment of population are committed to rising to this level of awareness (unfortunately). 

I don't believe it's that deep. 

I believe its not the situation that is romanticized but the person.  I dont believe its necessarily any deep rooted FOO issues.  Its simply a woman ignoring obvious red flags and trying to force relationships with a guy basing it on primitive attraction.  They then trick themselves by putting in alot of effort which reinforces the imaginary connection.  

Being in a less than fulfilling relationship creates a vacuum in which this is even more likely...thus why it happens more often in affairs. You see it takes even less for a woman to fall into it based on not getting out of a relationship what they want. Along comes a guy that offers that one small piece and she fills in the blanks to get her fill of that missing piece.  Eventually she needs more, no more us there. 

That's what happened in both her relationships, one a normal relationship,  the other an affair.  She is the constant in both situations and entered both with idealized views of these men. 

Its difficult to admit,  it's much easier to say "oh I had a bad childhood" when the reality is,  they simply suck at taking thier time and picking the right guy for the right reason,  or thinking that they can "make" him into the man they want.

[Girlwithapast]

Quote

4 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

I don't believe it's that deep. 

I believe its not the situation that is romanticized but the person.  I dont believe its necessarily any deep rooted FOO issues.  Its simply a woman ignoring obvious red flags and trying to force relationships with a guy basing it on primitive attraction.  They then trick themselves by putting in alot of effort which reinforces the imaginary connection.  

Being in a less than fulfilling relationship creates a vacuum in which this is even more likely...thus why it happens more often in affairs. You see it takes even less for a woman to fall into it based on not getting out of a relationship what they want. Along comes a guy that offers that one small piece and she fills in the blanks to get her fill of that missing piece.  Eventually she needs more, no more us there. 

That's what happened in both her relationships, one a normal relationship,  the other an affair.  She is the constant in both situations and entered both with idealized views of these men. 

Its difficult to admit,  it's much easier to say "oh I had a bad childhood" when the reality is,  they simply suck at taking thier time and picking the right guy for the right reason,  or thinking that they can "make" him into the man they want.

I just want to point out what happened in the second relationship, more so a fling, was not at all similar to my ex. Not sure why you would make that assumption because I never mentioned anything in detail about him. In fact I never expected anything of him or idealized anything because we never got to the point of a committed relationship. There was no Pre meet up fantasy because we met in real life at work. No co dependency. No disappointments. We were enjoying each other’s company, had fun, hung out a lot, got close. We were trying to figure out if we were compatible in the long run, both of us had our hesitations, and in the end we both didn’t make the commitment. 

[DKT3]

5 minutes ago, Girlwithapast said:

I just want to point out what happened in the second relationship, more so a fling, was not at all similar to my ex. Not sure why you would make that assumption because I never mentioned anything in detail about him. In fact I never expected anything of him or idealized anything because we never got to the point of a committed relationship. There was no Pre meet up fantasy because we met in real life at work. No co dependency. No disappointments. We were enjoying each other’s company, had fun, hung out a lot, got close. We were trying to figure out if we were compatible in the long run, both of us had our hesitations, and in the end we both didn’t make the commitment. 

Right...but you had this amazing connection.  That's what I'm talking about.  Your amazing connection was based on limited reality and alot of fantasy. It's the pattern. 

[Girlwithapast]

34 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

Right...but you had this amazing connection.  That's what I'm talking about.  Your amazing connection was based on limited reality and alot of fantasy. It's the pattern. 

Wait..if I have an amazing connection with a person in real life ...THATS based on limited reality and fantasy? There’s nothing I fantasized or imagined about my coworker lol. I met him, we got to know each other. We just had a lot of chemistry, we could talk about things, we enjoyed each other’s  company. I think it would be unrealistic for me to expect things from him or expect that the chemistry would last forever, both of which didn’t happen. Not sure what you’re getting at

[healing light]

6 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Yeah, no. It's about her lack of boundaries.  You see this is a problem, no matter how someone else is, it shouldn't make you compromise your morals and boundaries.  She cheated because what she did bothers her.  If it didn't she wouldn't be here talking about it. 

Cheating goes far beyond physical.  And really seems to be a double standard for so many people.  Those who flirt and carry on yet pops a top if thier partner does the same.

Emotional closeness with anyone not your partner is far more dangerous to the relationship then any physical encounter.  It can change the dynamics of a relationship and be ignored as the cause because since it's not physical it's not cheating..right?

So if your boyfriend/husband was hanging out with a woman he was attracted to,  flirting, texting and carrying on you would be ok with it because  a) he doesn't think you're a good partner and b) it wasn't physical. 

I do believe there's emotional cheating and then there's things people tend to universally agree is cheating (ie. sexual activities).

But I see this situation as a working relationship/friendship that made her realize her relationship was missing something and dead in the water. I got the impression there was like a week or two of escalating interaction before she ended her relationship as a result, not an ongoing emotional affair. If they were sexting, flirting heavily and hanging out in spite of her partner's wishes, and/or having sex, etc. I'd see it as cheating.

Short-lived happy hours with co-workers in groups where no sex is involved but feelings are unexpectedly stirred and as a result you end your relationship? I think that's an appropriate reaction to that scenario. I see that as ending a relationship that has outgrown its shelf life before you find yourself crossing the line into being emotionally/physically intimate with another person.

Lots of people can no longer ignore the lackluster factor of their partnerships when others come along that spark their interest. That's when you either double down on your relationship and have the tough conversations to see if things are workable/create healthy boundaries with third parties or you cut it loose like OP did. 

[DKT3]

11 minutes ago, healing light said:

I do believe there's emotional cheating and then there's things people tend to universally agree is cheating (ie. sexual activities).

But I see this situation as a working relationship/friendship that made her realize her relationship was missing something and dead in the water. I got the impression there was like a week or two of escalating interaction before she ended her relationship as a result, not an ongoing emotional affair. If they were sexting, flirting heavily and hanging out in spite of her partner's wishes, and/or having sex, etc. I'd see it as cheating.

Short-lived happy hours with co-workers in groups where no sex is involved but feelings are unexpectedly stirred and as a result you end your relationship? I think that's an appropriate reaction to that scenario. I see that as ending a relationship that has outgrown its shelf life before you find yourself crossing the line into being emotionally/physically intimate with another person.

Lots of people can no longer ignore the lackluster factor of their partnerships when others come along that spark their interest. That's when you either double down on your relationship and have the tough conversations to see if things are workable/create healthy boundaries with third parties or you cut it loose like OP did. 

I dont disagree with most of what you said. However,  two things 1) who's to say that this relationship with the coworker didn't affect her primary relationship  2) she still lacked boundaries even if it happened as you described. 

I know that her version is minimized, we always understate our shortcomings,  it's to be expected.  While overstating the others shortcomings. 

Ultimately that relationship is dead and the who when and why is less important than her learning from it. Learning to stop fantasizing this idea of the man she is interested in and pay attention to who he is actually proving himself to be. Installing boundaries so she doesn't get too close to men while in a relationship and understanding the difference between platonic and romantic interest. 

Being attracted to the to people is normal and natural in a relationship or not. Its important that we are honest with ourselves about that level of attraction and keep boundaries strong no matter the state of your relationship.  

She made a couple of comments that make it pretty clear she was aware of what was going on and she allowed it, only to later claim she didn't know how it happened.  Its topic to play clueless,  it lessens the accountability,  right.

[DKT3]

5 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

The pattern is the story. The romantisized part is looking for a different outcome to the story (rooted in our childhood experiences with our primary caregivers). Perhaps women have a romantisized version (e.g. codependency wherein they try to "love" the man into a different outcome from the story rooted in childhood)...

Small TJ. 

Can you imagine saying this several years ago?  I remember bumping heads with you but couldn't remember about what...it was this very thing. I'm happy you've finally got here. Amazing work.

Edited June 17, 2020 by DKT3

[HadMeOverABarrel]

4 hours ago, Girlwithapast said:

sometimes I even thank the appearance of the guy in my life because I would’ve probably continued this unhealthy relationship that was based On a poor and false foundation

Another thing Vaknin discussed in his video is that women may resort to cheating as a way to reclaim their independence and identity so as to break the bond in their current relationship and exit. Fascinating stuff!

[DKT3]

12 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Another thing Vaknin discussed in his video is that women may resort to cheating as a way to reclaim their independence and identity so as to break the bond in their current relationship and exit. Fascinating stuff!

No doubt,  however again,  most times it's not that complicated.  See hot guy, want hot guy, or partner is boring this guy is more exciting.  The exit part is more often a result of it being the easier road. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

1 hour ago, DKT3 said:

No doubt,  however again,  most times it's not that complicated.  See hot guy, want hot guy, or partner is boring this guy is more exciting.  The exit part is more often a result of it being the easier road. 

It is not as simple as girl sees and wants yummy guy every time in every situation with every female. That type of behavior relates more to animal instinct. The human psyche is complicated. The ability to self-reflect (subconscious vs conscious) is the singular thing that differentiates humans from animals. What you're describing is the surface manifestations of the subconscious underpinnings (my focus) that are driving the surface behavior.

I'm challenging you because I often find your arguments overly simplified with sweeping generalizations and assumptions, as if cookie cutter one-size-fits-all with a hint of misogyny (sorry, just being honest). I think your argument fits your own story (loaded with projections and blame and keeps you from looking at your own inner work).

Not a t/j bc op is benefiting from the discussion. I'm happy to debate you on the merits of my positions, however, on a separate thread if you wish to start one.

Edited June 17, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[DKT3]

36 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

It is not as simple as girl sees and wants yummy guy every time in every situation with every female. That type of behavior relates more to animal instinct. The human psyche is complicated. The ability to self-reflect (subconscious vs conscious) is the singular thing that differentiates humans from animals. What you're describing is the surface manifestations of the subconscious underpinnings (my focus) that are driving the surface behavior.

I'm challenging you because I often find your arguments overly simplified with sweeping generalizations and assumptions, as if cookie cutter one-size-fits-all with a hint of (sorry, just being honest). I think your argument fits your own story (loaded with projections and blame and keeps you from looking at your own inner work).

Not a t/j bc op is benefiting from the discussion. I'm happy to debate you on the merits of my positions, however, on a separate thread if you wish to start one.

Never mind....you got me.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by DKT3
Pointless debate.....

[deepthinking]

You got to know him more and more and found you disliked him. This is not your fault.

I think it should have ended sooner. He had chances to put the iPad down sooner. Maybe next time you see a red flag like this, you have a right to end it quite smartly. No time-wasting! 

Edited June 17, 2020 by deepthinking