Wife's dogs are dragging down our marriage. What to do?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I don't have a lot to add except if you are considering having children, you should probably rethink it because all of the things you listed in your first post will also be out the window once kids come on the scene.

I have two border collies and the only "bad" thing about it in my opinion is the dog hair.  I'm really really hoping that once I can finally get them groomed it will help, but this spring has been really bad!  My 19 year old daughter is really good at dog training and is definitely the "alpha" in this house.  She has trained them very well.  They don't bark and stay in the yard without a fence.  If only I could get them to poop in just one corner of the yard they'd be perfect :).  

[Watercolors]

2 hours ago, Zlow said:

They are my wife’s dogs because we had an understanding they would be her dogs and that she would be responsible for taking care of them because she had acknowledged that I DID NOT WANT DOGS. I merely agreed to allowing dogs into the home. These are not children I adopted or brought into the world by having consensual sex with my wife.

Also, your assumptions on my involvement and behavior towards the dogs are just that — assumptions. And they’re untrue.

i get up an hour earlier now before work just so I can take them to a trail in the morning and play with them. This is after my sleep has been interrupted because one of them constantly barks at night when he hears outside noises. I also walk them during my lunch. And after I’m done working. And before bed. I slept on the floor 2 nights ago next to one of them because she was sick and wanted to be next to one of us instead of in her crate. I give them pets constantly. And they love me. And my wife spends about as much time with them as I do. 

But do I want to do this? NO. I have much more important things to do with the little time I have off of work. And I prefer a clean, quiet house. And the quality time my wife and I have together is virtually nonexistent now. All for dogs, not our own children. And that makes me feel bad for the dogs. Because, like I said, they’re dependent upon us on they love me and think I’m just thrilled to be spending so much time with them. But they have no idea that I regret agreeing to accepting them into my home.

The difference between you and I is that I just don't let other people tell me what to do. I would NEVER allow a partner to dictate or manipulate me into getting dogs if I didn't want them. No matter what. You are using your wife as an excuse for your unhappiness with your marriage and the dogs are the real victims here. If you truly didn't want those dogs, you never would have allowed her to adopt them. You could have suggested that she go volunteer at the local humane society (pre COVID) to be around the dogs. Or, you could have suggested that she work at a doggie day camp, or volunteer at a doggie day camp, so she could be around dogs and not have them in your house. 

There are other solutions than adopting dogs, that your wife can choose to do, without bringing dogs home. But according to you, she manipulated you into adopting two dogs and ruined your perfectly calm life. 

So you don't want the dogs. You hate the dogs. Now what are you going to do about it? I wasn't being facetious when I wrote that if you really wanted to, you could divorce your wife and move out without the dogs and you'd be happy again. I stand by that advice. This isn't about the dogs at all. But you're using the dogs as an excuse. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed quoted and new personal attack.

[Zlow]

56 minutes ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

I don't have a lot to add except if you are considering having children, you should probably rethink it because all of the things you listed in your first post will also be out the window once kids come on the scene.

I have two border collies and the only "bad" thing about it in my opinion is the dog hair.  I'm really really hoping that once I can finally get them groomed it will help, but this spring has been really bad!  My 19 year old daughter is really good at dog training and is definitely the "alpha" in this house.  She has trained them very well.  They don't bark and stay in the yard without a fence.  If only I could get them to poop in just one corner of the yard they'd be perfect :).  

How are they on walks? Both of ours have an obsession with cars. They crouch down when they approach and then try to chase them when they pass. Our dog trainer said we should bring them to a ranch where they can herd sheep do they can have an outlet for their herding instinct.  We’ve taken them twice and it’s actually gotten worse now because they have so much fun there. 

[salparadise]

At this point I'm sure you just want your previous life back, as you said... but if you're open to compromise there is one that I haven't seen mentioned. Move to an apartment or house with a fenced backyard (and garage). Let the dogs roam mostly free in the backyard during waking hours, and crate them in the garage at night. And reiterate with your wife that the dogs are her sole responsibility, that you'll be happy to help occasionally, but it's her duty and your choice. What I fear though is that she isn't up to the task even for outdoor dogs. It still requires a lot of dedication.

I've had German Shepherds all my adult life. The last one was bred for Schutzhund, and as such was very high-energy. You can't train a high-energy dog to chill. All you can do is wear them out, which is a necessity twice a day. So this dog was not compatible with indoor living because she couldn't contain herself. She spent most of her time in the backyard, and was crated at night in the garage. It made things manageable. I still took her on an hour-long walk, training, and exercise routine twice a day. I love dogs, but when I divorced I moved to an apartment and there's no way I want a dog in such close quarters with no one else to even take her out to pee.

There is a big difference between loving dogs and choosing to live in close quarters and dedicate your existence to one (or two). You need to talk to your wife and try to work something out. She needs to understand that the cost of getting things her way could be the marriage itself.

 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

1 hour ago, Zlow said:

How are they on walks? Both of ours have an obsession with cars. They crouch down when they approach and then try to chase them when they pass. Our dog trainer said we should bring them to a ranch where they can herd sheep do they can have an outlet for their herding instinct.  We’ve taken them twice and it’s actually gotten worse now because they have so much fun there. 

Hmmm, they are fine with walks, although the younger one still pulls on the leash too much.  They ignore cars, though.  Neither one of them have a super strong herding instinct, but we do also have 2 cats and one of them thinks it's his job to herd one of the cats because my daughter has taught him so.  🙄 They get most of their wiggles out playing fetch in the yard.  I have a decent sized back yard with a hill so running up and down the hill gets a lot of energy out.  

Are both of yours still puppies?

[MissBee]

 My therapist always says resentment is a sign you've abandoned yourself, that is, you've gone against your true desires or values to appease someone else. Seems this is what happened here, that this was a hard no that you only bent on for her and now you're resentful.

I agree that if she wants the dogs, the compromise has to be that she takes on the majority of the responsibilities and do her best where she can to make things clean. Is it possible that the dogs are sometimes kept in one part of the home or say something like a play pen where they don't have total roaming freedom all the time?

Overall, speaking about how you feel, without blaming or judging just sharing like you did your frustrations and asking for a compromise may help to restore harmony between you two. Most of the times couples get resentful and don't ever share this and resentment and anger just stew and no one really communicates or it's only angry defensive communication that obviously makes stuff worse and so things devolve further and further. Your resentment is already leading to distance emotionally, sexually and now you want to physically move. I really suggest asking for time to have a heart to heart where you use a lot of "I statements" and avoid blame and seek understanding and solutions vs blame and ultimatums.

[GeorgiaPeach1]

On 6/14/2020 at 9:52 PM, Watercolors said:

I don't believe you. The way you whine and complain about how your wife made you get her the two dogs shows that you have a hard time setting boundaries with your wife, which is not the dogs' fault. It's your fault. Fine. Get your own place. Rehome the dogs. Divorce your wife. Problems solved. 

Don't be silly.

[GeorgiaPeach1]

On 6/11/2020 at 9:24 PM, Zlow said:

We’ve been married a year. I insisted we shouldn’t get a dog until we buy a house and said I really just don’t want a dog indoors. Well she kept begging me. So I caved during Christmas when she got depressed on the anniversary of her last dog’s death. She got a border collie. Then another one thinking it would be a good playmate. Bad idea. I had warned her.

 What I had before the dogs

1. quiet clean living room that smelled good 2. Quiet place to read. 3. Calm walks before bed time. 4. Nice patio to enjoy sunset. 5. Good morning routine to get me motivated for the day 6. Good sex life with the Mrs. 7. Weekend getaways with my wife, frequently. 8. Increasing balance in savings account for house down payment. 
 

Needless to say ALL of that is gone. And the worst part is I have to work from home and they are KILLING my productivity. My mornings are stressful as hell now dealing with these dogs. Despite this I’m actually really nice to them.

But I just want them gone. I want my life back. I want my marriage back. And my wife doesn’t even seem happy with them but will be really sad if she rehomes them.

 I’ve never liked the idea of giving ultimatums in relationships. But I know she’ll re-home at least one of them. She’s even suggested that. But I feel bad for the dogs because they depend on us. I’m at the point where I just want my own place. Seriously considering it. I’ve actually just kind of detached myself from the marriage, like a coping mechanism. I love my wife but I’m just kind of subconsciously angry with her maybe. But so much I don’t want to have sex with her anymore. I said “no dog” daily for 2 years. I’m mad she didn’t respect it and it caused me to just go along with it.

So what’s the best approach? Just say “the dogs have to go”?

Put your foot down and rehome them. They are causing too much disruption in your life. Wife will get over it and learn not to force your hand next time. Think long and hard before you have kids.

Edited June 17, 2020 by GeorgiaPeach1

[HadMeOverABarrel]

@Zlow Fair enough. Thank you for clarifying. I hope you and your wife will be able to work out a solution with an excellent outcome for these dogs in mind. 

I hope you don't mind if I share my dog experience (bc I'm hoping it can add perspective to your situation):

Months before I got my dog in 2007, I was working a very demanding, highly competitive intellectual job at 60+ hours plus 12 hours commute weekly. I've always been very much on the go besides with travel, social activities, etc. Around the same time I left that job, my cousin posted to Facebook she had to rehome a 1 year old dog and I took pity on the dog as it was being physically abused by her husband.

I picked up the dog about 500 miles away and brought it home. For the first 3 days I totally had buyer's remorse thinking about the enormous commitment I just took on. She wasn't even potty trained and had been kept in her kennel 23 hours every day before I got her. She was my first pet as an adult.

In the 13 years I've had her, I've made massive sacrifices. For example, I had a job with a commute >1 hour each way. I ended up renting a second apartment just so I could walk her on lunch breaks and spend only weekends at home. I've made many such sacrifices for her over the years.

They've all been worth it. I can attribute several friends and business opportunities I made because of her (chains of events that started by meeting someone when walking her). There was a time she literally saved my life. She has taught me patience. She makes me laugh every day. She actually has tremendous charisma surpringly for a dog...like the way she greets total strangers as they pull into their own driveways after work, or barks at the neighbors if she thinks they didn't pet her enough, how she is super nosey looking into people's homes when they leave their doors open (incl trying to go inside), the way she prances when she's happy or hops like a bunny when she's excited, or especially the time we were walking down an alley and she hopped into the lap of a total stranger. Tears began to stream down his face as he said, "I've had a horrible day and I needed this," as he began to pet her. There are countless stories I could tell about her and all the wonderful things she's gifted me.

This is what I'm hoping you will see in these two dogs now in your life. They are just two sweet, innocent doggy souls looking to love and pass along their doggy wisdom. Whatever you do, please don't split them up.

 

[Ellener]

@Zlow I think it's cool you are thinking it all through. A lot of people would not have posted their dilemma on the internet for people to be cross about! I am not at all sentimental about animals, they are their species, I am mine, but it is kind of special to co-habit and if we can do that between species maybe there's hope for humans...

[LivingWaterPlease]

Ziow, I think you should share your OP with your wife and talk with her very frankly about how the dogs are affecting you and your life. 

I would feel exactly the same way you do in the situation you described. 

Also, I've had children and I've had dogs I loved. For me, children were not at all in the same category as having dogs. Not even close. And I did love my dogs. For one thing, I always kept the dogs outside. I couldn't tolerate a dog inside of my home. It's something I'd talk about before getting married. 

I hope you and your wife can work out a compromise somehow or agree to rehome the dogs. Or maybe move to a house with a fenced in back yard for the dogs to stay in and if you're going to keep the dogs have them be all her responsibility. Or, again, rehome the dogs. Dogs are important. But, IMO, you are more important than the dogs. You made a mistake getting them but that doesn't mean you have to continue to be miserable. Find a good home for them or get the fenced in yard for them and let your wife take care of them.

[usa1ah]

Only advice is to re home then to someone with a farm or ranch. 
 

You did give in instead of standing your ground. 
 

Hope you find a good home for them soon. 

[Gaeta]

Obviously I am a dog lover and consider it a life commitment that's why I think you have to re-home your dogs. 

Instead of agreeing to get dogs you should have negociated with your wife to get dogs once you're a home-owner. Too late now. 

Your wife picked the wrong breed for apartment living. A couple of walks in the park isn't enough to keep those dogs happy. They're high energy sheppards, they need to run all day and they need their brain to be stimulated by sniffing new smells, the way they would on a large property. They also need to be challanged. That apartment will soon become their prison. 

They're beautiful dogs, highly intelligent, that you can rehome in a proper home with the help of the breeder where you bought them. These dogs would be much much happier in a large home with land AND with owners that WANT them. These dogs feel your annoyance toward them, and living all their life in a home where 1 owner is not fully invested is unfair to them. 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Gaeta

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Your wife picked the wrong breed for apartment living. A couple of walks in the park isn't enough to keep those dogs happy. They're high energy sheppards, they need to run all day and they need their brain to be stimulated by sniffing new smells, the way they would on a large property. They also need to be challanged. That apartment will soon become their prison. 

 

Respectfully, this is simply not true of all border collies.  I think they get a bad rap for being crazy high-strung all the time, and it's not the case.  I got an 8 week old border collie while living in a 2nd floor apartment and lived there for 2 years with him.  He wasn't any different than any other puppy in terms of things he chewed up or got into. But, he got a lot of exercise. We frequently found places to go outside and play fetch, we found another puppy for him to become friends and romp with, playing with him a lot inside by teaching tricks, etc.  I did not find the experience with him, or with my next border collie puppy (who is now 1.5 yrs) to be any different than any other puppy like a lab or whatever.  A lot of it is expectation....but my days of just caring about myself and doing what I want, laying around on the couch with a lot of free time, etc. went out the window when I had kids so I was already out of "that mode" anyway.

Edited June 19, 2020 by CautiouslyOptimistic

[IndigoNight]

My dogs live indoors, with plenty of outside time. I REFUSE to own a dog that lives outside. Never have, never will. My dogs are well trained, and given baths so that they don't smell (one is a Bloodhound). Aside from having to vacuum a little more, my dogs have NEVER disrupted my home. They are part of my family.

If your dogs are a problem, train them better, and make sure to keep them well groomed. They should not be disrupting your life unless allowed to do so. Border Collies need a lot of exercise, so either do it yourself/wife, or hire someone to take your dog for walks and to the park.It is amazing how smart they are. Give them a chance! Learn about the breed. Once you know what they need, it isnt that hard to provide. 

A dog left outside is wrong. They want to be part of your family, not a lawn ornament! 

[pepperbird]

op,

if you're not a dog person, and she is, as silly as it  might sound, you may want to do some hard thinking.
I'm not a dog person, but I do know that to people who are, dogs are very important in their lives. She may not be happy unless she has a dog, and it doesn't sound like you are happy with dogs- at least, not these dogs. There's nothing wrong with that  by itself, but it can actually be a point of contention.
Your views and opinion are important. If you don't want dogs, don't get dogs, Don't do it just to make her happy- it will be the dogs ( and you) who pay the price. If she can't look after them on her own, she shouldn't have them.

[IndigoNight]

17 hours ago, pepperbird said:

- it will be the dogs  who pay the price. 

Dogs ALWAYS pay the price when they are unwanted. Shelters have to destroy those that do not find a home, sometimes in 3 days or less. (I rescue and foster dogs, I'm not guessing!)

OP if you rehome the dogs! DO NOT TAKE THEM TO A SHELTER! Find a Border Collie Rescue, and ask if they can take them. With your wife's consent of course. 

Or, learn about the breed, and enter them into training classes. They like having a job as a herding breed. They were never meant to be a family pet, although with training and patience they can be a great addition. 

[IndigoNight]

On 6/12/2020 at 12:57 AM, enigma32 said:

You should have gotten a mastiff like me. I have 2 of them and all they do is lay around and eat. High energy dogs are not meant for everyone. 

I loved my Mastiff. However, a Mastiff would walk all over someone who isn't dog savvy. They also have the size to do it. Great dogs! I am currently looking for a sibling pair of puppies to raise. They aren't for the feint of heart though. 

[pepperbird]

12 hours ago, IndigoNight said:

Dogs ALWAYS pay the price when they are unwanted. Shelters have to destroy those that do not find a home, sometimes in 3 days or less. (I rescue and foster dogs, I'm not guessing!)

OP if you rehome the dogs! DO NOT TAKE THEM TO A SHELTER! Find a Border Collie Rescue, and ask if they can take them. With your wife's consent of course. 

Or, learn about the breed, and enter them into training classes. They like having a job as a herding breed. They were never meant to be a family pet, although with training and patience they can be a great addition. 

it's a hard go for no kill shelters- I volunteer with one that rescues and re homes rabbits. So many people get pets on a whim without realizing the work involved.

[IndigoNight]

21 hours ago, pepperbird said:

it's a hard go for no kill shelters- I volunteer with one that rescues and re homes rabbits. So many people get pets on a whim without realizing the work involved.

Sad, but so very true. My family rescues everything from lizards to horses, because someone got tired of taking care of it. It is heartbreaking, 

[introverted1]

22 hours ago, pepperbird said:

it's a hard go for no kill shelters- I volunteer with one that rescues and re homes rabbits. So many people get pets on a whim without realizing the work involved.

No-kill shelters are often not required to take every animal than is turned in. That is part of what allows them to maintain no-kill status.  And "no-kill" doesn't actually mean that they don't euthanize animals.  Animals that are too sick to be helped or that have become so agitated in their kennel that they've developed behaviors that make them unadoptable can be euthanized.  In general, no-kill shelters strive for a 90% adoption rate.

I foster and it is heart-breaking to see how carelessly people make the decision to adopt and then abandon their pets.