Anti-white Prejudice - does it exist?

[homecoming]

25 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

I'll address your post to me later, when I have a bit more time...but regarding the post above, this thread asks a very specific question.  What's wrong with posters answering it?

No, there’s not an issue with posters answering it, per se. I’m discussing the tone of responses - some are very emotionally charged and anecdotal, yet, I have seen people of colour write in the very same way, and accused of being victims.
 

I felt that the thread asked if a concept existed, not for personal, emotionally charged anecdotes, and occasional thinly-veiled digs at others. I personally feel that there’s a difference between debating a concept, and recalling personal experiences.

 

Also, my post was influenced by other things I’ve seen on social media during the last few weeks, not primarily this thread - which I should have specified initially.

Edited June 14, 2020 by homecoming

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Libby1 said:

this thread asks a very specific question.  What's wrong with posters answering it?

The Black Lives Matter movement emerged because people were not responding to the experiences of large swathes of our society. The concept of white supremacy is not about whether white people get to say 'me too' about the experience of racism.

Black lives Matter organisation has made an explicit agenda for 'freedom liberation and justice for all' and states:

'We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.'

They plan to work alongside and speak up for all marginalised groups. 

 

 

[Weezy1973]

Seems just to fall on people’s definition of racism. 

I think if it’s systemic racism you could have racism directed towards white people. For example if the majority in a particular system (say a city or a school) is not white, and that system is geared towards the majority, then a white person in that particular situation could experience racism. 

[K.K.]

You’d think Floyd's family would donate some of the money to the pregnant lady he terrorized. She’s scarred for life and probably needs extensive therapy. I mean for real, how many televised funerals can one man have? Burying him like he’s some kind of head of state. People out rioting and looting and burning down buildings and they don’t even know why. What are they protesting? The cop that killed him has been charged and locked up as he should be. So what are they protesting again? What are their demands? Equal treatment? ?They’ve had equal treatment all along. If someone wants to hate people for the color of their skin, that’s on them. But it’s not allowed anywhere today to show that in the workplace. It’s discriminatory and not allowed to happen or risk being on the receiving end of a lawsuit. So when you say equal treatment, what is it that you’re referring to? 

People of color have the same opportunities as me in 2020 and if they choose to be thugs and end up on the wrong side of the law then that’s on them. Why don’t you just say what you really want. Special treatment. Not going to be satisfied until a cop isn’t even allowed to stop a black person for a traffic citation.

I feel that BLM is a hate group. Just like the KKK. I would personally never be a part of either one. If you think rioting and burning sht down is the way to earn respect or that you’re going to bring about change- through violence- then you’re just foolish. Eventually people in charge are going to find their balls and push back.

Edited June 16, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed personal attacks in response to a personal attack.

[Emilie Jolie]

14 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Seems just to fall on people’s definition of racism. 

I think if it’s systemic racism you could have racism directed towards white people. For example if the majority in a particular system (say a city or a school) is not white, and that system is geared towards the majority, then a white person in that particular situation could experience racism. 

I have teacher friends (white) who work in inner city schools where white students are a minority. Most of the teaching body are white. How can it be systemic racism? Same in a city - if the infrastructure of power is white (council, mayor, whatever local representative you have), how can racism be systemic? There are genuine questions by the way, I'm not trying to be argumentative  .

 

[Haydn]

Hello, 

I don`t want to dismiss the seriousness nature of this thread. You had a bad experience and you maybe rightfully feel uneasy and less trusting but that trust can come back. If you take a closer look there are mostly peaceful BLM protesters. I don`t think it is a hate group, there are far too many good people from all walks of life that support it to frame it as that.  Right i`m off to watch Gone with the wind.

Edited June 16, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed quoted personal attack.

[Emilie Jolie]

1 hour ago, Libby1 said:

What's wrong with posters answering it?

Nothing at all. The whole point of the thread is trying to hear each other out.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[pepperbird]

14 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

A increasing number of white people (therefore voters) seem to feel like they are the victims of a form of anti-white racism, and I feel like it's at the heart of the 'cultural war' many of our societies are facing.

My personal position is closely aligned to the following quote by Dr Pragya Agarwal, author and behavioural scientist

I don't believe anti-white racism as concept exists for the reasons stated above, even though I accept the notion of anti-white racial prejudice.

I'm white, from a relatively sheltered background acquired through merit, not money, with a dual European background from my parents and a multicultural ethnic background through my extended family. My mixed heritage and travels have allowed me to be exposed to different perspectives on the issue of race and racism, and I like to think of myself as accepting of other people's views, up to a point. I have a fairly hard line in my personal life as far as developing friendships with bigots or racists, and I admit that I really struggle with the notion that 'whites' as a race are a threatened species. I understand that people have this perception however, and would like to know what drives these perceptions.

Any thoughts or personal experiences appreciated.

 

Everyone is capable of racism and discrimination, and I don't care who you (general) are.
People assume that white people don't experience discrimination or racism, and I can tell you that's not true. Some of the absolute worst comments or a racist nature I have ever heard were directed bat my daughters by two muslim men standing outside the mosque they pass every day when they get of the bus of their way to walk to their universities. They were being called some pretty vile names ( including one starting with white and then one with "w" that women should never be called). It really upset them. To be fair, another man put a stop to it one day when he came out of the building and saw what they were doing. I'd like to think he's more representative of followers of that faith and those other two are just jerks and would be no matter what their religion.

My oldest had also been treated  pretty badly for identifying as asexual, even to a point where she had people tell her she's sick, needs to see a doctor, just needs a good (expletive deleted), and this was by the LGBTQ group at her uni.

As for my autistic son?

He gets treated pretty shabbily everywhere he goes, and it doesn't mater what race a person is. Hes been called everything from "retard"  to "effing idiot", because he's mostly non verbal, and what makes it even more rotten is people will do it right in front of him, like he can't hear. They'll also treat him like he's an infant even though he's 17 and probably the most intelligent person in the room. This being said, whenever we travel, he's been treated really well. We like to book local tours, and every time we do, people are very kind to him and treat him like he's a person. I'm always grateful for that.

The discrimination goes even as far as where he might live if something happens to his dad and I. His sisters have a plan, and I am so happy they do. I would fight until I took my last breath to keep him out of a "care home". Young adults who needs assistance are always at the end of the line here, so much so that when the staff of a care home for young adults with developmental delays walked off the job during the covid-19 pandemic and left them all alone, no one seemed to care- they even excused it. Parents of autistics are often advised to give their son or daughter a card they can give to police or other first repsonders that explains they are n on verbal. Law enforcement has a pretty bleak record in that area, and peoeple have even been killed.

Disabled people are seen expendable and a drain, even my own government has told them so. It's pretty disheartening to know you're just seen as being that way. In days past, eugenics, forced sterilizations, etc. would likely have been in our future, and if we were in Germany ? Even worse. We would have been seen as being "life unworthy of life" and met our end under the T$ Aktion program.
 

One more thing- how do you view a university telling a disabled student who is on the dean's list and on her way to being one of the first autistic students in its history to graduate from its law program that she should drop out if she finds doing online classes to not work for her? I think it's awful, but that's what my duaghter was told- and even worse, people excuse that sort of response all the time.

Personalty, I think that instead of seeing the current issues as being just about race, we should see them as being more about being equal and fair, giving each person the same level playing field. What they choose to do with their time, talents and intellect is up to them.

[pepperbird]

14 hours ago, homecoming said:

Yes, racial prejudice can exist, but anti-white racism cannot, for the reasons you've stated. 

The 'white genocide' narrative is a myth, there is no evidence of white people's existence being threatened by minorities, and is a concept that even David Duke's godson (KKK member) dismissed. 

The fear of the Other is an interesting concept, as to why these fears develop. To really articulate it I'd have to go into all of my old essays, but basically it is that the psyche of a racist person feels fear and a threat by the presence of something they are unfamiliar with, so they project all of the world's wrongdoings onto those who are different, so as to keep their own narcissistic internal core 'pure' - thus creating the idea and belief that the white race is being 'threatened'. This concept would have led to narratives such as "they're stealing all our jobs" and "they're taking all our women", etc.  The same concept would apply to homophobic behaviour. 

gay people can be bigots. example: the ones who told my asexual daughter that she just needed therapy, to see a doctor or just needed a good ( expletive deletd) when she went to her unis. LGBTQ group for support.

[Zona]

BLM will ultimately fail to achieve anything because they are too radical, too hateful, and too far left, especially by American standards. That's actually a shame, because there are real issues that need to be addressed. What MLK achieved was fantastic, but he was actually, according to family members, a Republican, and he never advocated violence. It really helped that he didn't appear to have a partisan political agenda, unlike BLM.

My oldest son was interested in following his mother's footsteps by going to medical school. That changed when he realized that, since he is a white male, the standards to get into medical school are ridiculously inflated compared to standards for females and visible minorities. He would need a GPA of almost 4 in pre-med and an extremely high MCAT score just to be considered. Women and visible minorities only needed a GPA of around 3.2 and a much lower MCAT to be considered. I'm sure everyone would agree that is blatantly discriminatory? Sadly he's given up on it, and decided to go to engineering school instead.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Zona

[Haydn]

7 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

Everyone is capable of racism and discrimination, and I don't care who you (general) are.
People assume that white people don't experience discrimination or racism, and I can tell you that's not true. Some of the absolute worst comments or a racist nature I have ever heard were directed bat my daughters by two muslim men standing outside the mosque they pass every day when they get of the bus of their way to walk to their universities. They were being called some pretty vile names ( including one starting with white and then one with "w" that women should never be called). It really upset them. To be fair, another man put a stop to it one day when he came out of the building and saw what they were doing. I'd like to think he's more representative of followers of that faith and those other two are just jerks and would be no matter what their religion.

My oldest had also been treated  pretty badly for identifying as asexual, even to a point where she had people tell her she's sick, needs to see a doctor, just needs a good (expletive deleted), and this was by the LGBTQ group at her uni.

As for my autistic son?

He gets treated pretty shabbily everywhere he goes, and it doesn't mater what race a person is. Hes been called everything from "retard"  to "effing idiot", because he's mostly non verbal, and what makes it even more rotten is people will do it right in front of him, like he can't hear. They'll also treat him like he's an infant even though he's 17 and probably the most intelligent person in the room. This being said, whenever we travel, he's been treated really well. We like to book local tours, and every time we do, people are very kind to him and treat him like he's a person. I'm always grateful for that.

The discrimination goes even as far as where he might live if something happens to his dad and I. His sisters have a plan, and I am so happy they do. I would fight until I took my last breath to keep him out of a "care home". Young adults who needs assistance are always at the end of the line here, so much so that when the staff of a care home for young adults with developmental delays walked off the job during the covid-19 pandemic and left them all alone, no one seemed to care- they even excused it. Parents of autistics are often advised to give their son or daughter a card they can give to police or other first repsonders that explains they are n on verbal. Law enforcement has a pretty bleak record in that area, and peoeple have even been killed.

Disabled people are seen expendable and a drain, even my own government has told them so. It's pretty disheartening to know you're just seen as being that way. In days past, eugenics, forced sterilizations, etc. would likely have been in our future, and if we were in Germany ? Even worse. We would have been seen as being "life unworthy of life" and met our end under the T$ Aktion program.
 

One more thing- how do you view a university telling a disabled student who is on the dean's list and on her way to being one of the first autistic students in its history to graduate from its law program that she should drop out if she finds doing online classes to not work for her? I think it's awful, but that's what my duaghter was told- and even worse, people excuse that sort of response all the time.

Personalty, I think that instead of seeing the current issues as being just about race, we should see them as being more about being equal and fair, giving each person the same level playing field. What they choose to do with their time, talents and intellect is up to them.

This is awful to hear, these are threads that need to be started by you. 

[Emilie Jolie]

1 minute ago, pepperbird said:

People assume that white people don't experience discrimination or racism, and I can tell you that's not true.

I don't think people assuming white people don't experience discrimination or racial prejudice. I realise my thread title is not great - it should have been called 'let's talk about anti-white prejudice' or something less antagonistic. I obviously don't want to invalidate anyone's rightful concerns - hence the thread!

There's a lot to unpick in your post, pepperbird - it sounds like you and your kids are not having the best of times at the moment. I'm sorry. I can't make it any better, so that's all I'll say.

Yes, discrimination is bad, and you were correct in your first example - prejudiced people do not represent their race or religion.

10 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

Personalty, I think that instead of seeing the current issues as being just about race, we should see them as being more about being equal and fair, giving each person the same level playing field. What they choose to do with their time, talents and intellect is up to them.

I agree with the sentiment. Unfortunately, we are arriving at the current crossroads because people in positions of privilege struggle to give up their place. You say your daughter is among the first openly autistic students to potentially be awarded a law degree from her university - this would not have happened 20 years ago. Societal advances do not happen in a vacuum when all of a sudden a generation decides to be fairer and more equitable than the last one. These rights were bitterly fought for. 

[Libby1]

2 hours ago, homecoming said:

The Jay Report did not find a 'combination' of what you mentioned. They found that officers didn't intervene because they didn't want to be accused of racism - that is not an act of racism, but perhaps an act of political correctness 'gone mad' (or whatever the phrase is). 

While it's understandable that you feel passionate about this, none of this is systemic racism. Systemic racism is opression by institution, when the laws of a place create unequal treatment of a specific social identity group or groups. 

No one has argued that racial prejudice is a good thing, but this is not systemic racism. That is not my opinion, but written, documented, and studied fact.

It's quite some time since I read it, so I took another look.  The Jay Report did not go as far as to use the phrase "white trash" but it does refer to information it received that the police regarded the girls as "undesirables" who were not worth police time.  There's quite a bit in other parts of the report outlining specific incidents where the girls were seen as culpable for the abuse.  One of the most notorious being the example where a 12 year old was found in a derelict house with one other child and a group of adult males.  The child was arrested for being drunk and disorderly, but the men were released without charge.   The concerns about being accused of racism were found not so much among the police as among other agencies (particularly Councillors).

https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham

Part 5 of the Report outlines some of the children's own stories and failings of the police in protecting those girls.   Part 10 goes into more depth, referring to other research finding that the police tended to regard missing (from children's homes) girls as deviant, promiscuous and a waste of their time.

The fears about being seen as racist are referred to in part 11 and relate more to other agencies' involvement.  Staff at the Risky Business project reported that they were told not to make reference to the ethnicity of alleged perpetrators...but it's really in the interviews with Councillors that the issue of racial sensitivities (and the role they played) is touched upon. 

(They) believed that by opening up these issues they could be 'giving oxygen' to racist perspectives that might in turn attract extremist political groups and threaten community cohesion. To some extent this concern was valid, with the apparent targeting of the town by groups such as the English Defence League

As I recall the girls' own stories, and details of their experiences with the police, were published in more detail by the Times.  Reporter Andrew Norfolk worked tirelessly on this story.  It was his work that ultimately led to the Jay Report being instructed...but in interviews he's revealed that he was very reluctant to take it on, as it seemed like a dream story for the far right.  Also, he received a lot of hate mail.  

I don't think this was a case of political correctness gone mad.  I think it was a case of politics playing out as they generally do.  Here's an account in the Independent from one of the Rotherham girls.  She talks about racism in its various forms, and it's very clear that as far as she's concerned the treatment she and other girls (who yes, were of various ethnicities and not just white) received was a form of racism.  I suggest that the systems which were supposed to protect girls like this were more interested in protecting themselves (from allegations of racism, for example) - and that a byproduct of that was that they also protected the abusers.  Racial factors played a primary role in that, and therefore I'd maintain that this certainly was an example of systemic racism.

 https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-deal-racism-hate-crime-rotherham-grooming-gang-child-sex-abuse-islamophobia-definition-a8666416.html

Going by your definition of systemic racism, what laws in the UK do you believe discriminate against black or brown Brits?

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Libby1

[Piddy]

Sure there's anti white prejudice.  But minorities don't have power ( political / economic etc.).  Racism's consequences (which Merriam and Webster is currently changing the meaning of btw) is all about who holds the power.  This is what is meant by institutional / systemic racism. 

 I'm sure anti white prejudice happens everyday.  But means little if they have no power.  Whites have held the power for 400 years and have embedded  systematic / institutionalized racism because of that power.

White privilege is inherently there because whites have held the power for all that time.  So, anti white prejudice really doesn't mean much because non whites who hold anti white prejudice have no real power.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Piddy

[pepperbird]

9 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I don't think people assuming white people don't experience discrimination or racial prejudice. I realise my thread title is not great - it should have been called 'let's talk about anti-white prejudice' or something less antagonistic. I obviously don't want to invalidate anyone's rightful concerns - hence the thread!

There's a lot to unpick in your post, pepperbird - it sounds like you and your kids are not having the best of times at the moment. I'm sorry. I can't make it any better, so that's all I'll say.

Yes, discrimination is bad, and you were correct in your first example - prejudiced people do not represent their race or religion.

I agree with the sentiment. Unfortunately, we are arriving at the current crossroads because people in positions of privilege struggle to give up their place. You say your daughter is among the first openly autistic students to potentially be awarded a law degree from her university - this would not have happened 20 years ago. Societal advances do not happen in a vacuum when all of a sudden a generation decides to be fairer and more equitable than the last one. These rights were bitterly fought for. 

For most of her education, she tried to hide that she was autistic. She's only stopped masking the past few months because it wasn't working so well. I've been there myself.

No one is fighting for her rights- except maybe her.  She does that herself. You can't depend on anyone else to do it.

If a minority Canadian student went to their uni. with the same problem, would dropping out have even been on the table?  If not, then why is it okay to make that suggestion to an autistic student?

This is why I don't think the focus should be "let's make the system better for African/First Nations/ White/ French/ whatever Canadians" but instead, we might all be better served if the focus was levelling the playing field so everyone gets an equal chance. It's great to talk about creating workplaces free of discrimination, but that doesn't help much if you're stuck outside in your wheelchair and can't even get inside in the first place.



 

[Emilie Jolie]

22 minutes ago, Zona said:

Sadly he's given up on it, and decided to go to engineering school instead.

That's not ideal obviously, sorry to hear that. I don't understand the US grading system so I'm not familiar with the GPA points thing, but assume 32 is still quite high if he's considering engineering? Why is he giving up, though? Isn't it the case that with hard work, the sky is the limit? That's what some minorities, who have been discriminated against for centuries and would very much like to have the same options you son has had (the chance to get into university in the first place) are being told all day long. Work harder, reach for the sky and you can achieve anything. Are they all lazy losers? Not unless you consider your son to be an underachiever if he doesn't get the grades needed to get into medical school, which is clearly not the case.

 

 

[pepperbird]

15 minutes ago, Piddy said:

Sure there's anti white prejudice.  But minorities don't have power ( political / economic etc.).  Racism's consequences (which Merriam and Webster is currently changing the meaning of btw) is all about who holds the power.  This is what is meant by institutional / systemic racism. 

 I'm sure anti white prejudice happens everyday.  But means little if they have no power.  Whites have held the power for 400 years and have embedded  systematic / institutionalized racism because of that power.

White privilege is inherently there because whites have held the power for all that time.  So, anti white prejudice really doesn't mean much because non whites who hold anti white prejudice have no real power.

 

If one looks at it from the macro view, it's going to be very difficult to change. I can only speak for myself, but the micro changes can add up, and a big part of that is actually bringing people together.

It might sound silly,  but I've seen it happen, albeit on a small scale. When people can actually meet and get to know each other on a personal level the fears and assumptions often go away. As an individual, I can do very little to create societal change, but I can do what i can in my own little world.

[Weezy1973]

52 minutes ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I have teacher friends (white) who work in inner city schools where white students are a minority. Most of the teaching body are white. How can it be systemic racism? Same in a city - if the infrastructure of power is white (council, mayor, whatever local representative you have), how can racism be systemic? There are genuine questions by the way, I'm not trying to be argumentative  .

 

Not taking it as argumentative as mine was more of a hypothetical anyways. If most of the teaching body were black or most of the people in power in the city were black, would that make a difference?

It also depends on what level you’re talking. In a school for example, even if the teachers are white, if the student body is mostly black, a white kid could have racism directed towards him by the other students (I.e. the students with the power in that particular system).

[Emilie Jolie]

5 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

This is why I don't think the focus should be "let's make the system better for African/First Nations/ White/ French/ whatever Canadians" but instead, we might all be better served if the focus was levelling the playing field so everyone gets an equal chance. It's great to talk about creating workplaces free of discrimination, but that doesn't help much if you're stuck outside in your wheelchair and can't even get inside in the first place.

 

I hear you, but I feel like this is completely sweeping aside the specific issues that have arisen from systemic racism - sounds like Native Americans were / are quite severely discriminated against, for instance; I don't think it's right or fair to level all issues as though they were the same, because they're simply not. 

[Piddy]

7 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

If one looks at it from the macro view, it's going to be very difficult to change. I can only speak for myself, but the micro changes can add up, and a big part of that is actually bringing people together.

It might sound silly,  but I've seen it happen, albeit on a small scale. When people can actually meet and get to know each other on a personal level the fears and assumptions often go away. As an individual, I can do very little to create societal change, but I can do what i can in my own little world.

Yes, me too.  Not silly at all.   And that certainly is the way to go as an individual.  But on the macro level change comes about politically.  This is what the protests are all about.  And they are having an affect in seeing real change. 

 Plus, having a president who got his political bones propagating a racist lie (birtherism) doesn't help matters.  So, on a maco level elections matter. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Piddy

[pepperbird]

11 hours ago, Zona said:

If I hear this one more time, I'm gonna puke. Of course there are bigots of all colors and ethnicities, and justifying it like this guy does really bugs me.

You can't fight racism with racism. That should be obvious.

There is actually a form of racism that is just as insidious.

Way back when, I was applying to university. On the application, there was a check box to indicate whether or not I was a member of a minority group. I ddin't know, so I checked "no".

Why would it matter anyway? At first, it didn't bother me,  but the more I thought about it, it did. It's like saying minorities aren't as capable and need that extra leg up, and that's ridiculous. It was just the application- the registrar would have no idea what race I was.
 

[Emilie Jolie]

1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said:

Not taking it as argumentative as mine was more of a hypothetical anyways. If most of the teaching body were black or most of the people in power in the city were black, would that make a difference?

It also depends on what level you’re talking. In a school for example, even if the teachers are white, if the student body is mostly black, a white kid could have racism directed towards him by the other students (I.e. the students with the power in that particular system).

These hypotheticals are off the charts, @Weezy1973!  🤪  They are too loaded, I think. I don't know any situation such as this in real life, so if you can point me to an actual school or city in the western world where the whole teaching body / institutional power is  made up of minorities who have implemented specific anti-white rules, I'd be happy to revise my definition.  

[Emilie Jolie]

7 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

Why would it matter anyway? At first, it didn't bother me,  but the more I thought about it, it did. It's like saying minorities aren't as capable and need that extra leg up, and that's ridiculous. It was just the application- the registrar would have no idea what race I was.
 

I find it interesting that you consider this an extra leg up, but you don't consider being white in the first place to not have given you any sort of leg up? It did me. I've found being white to be a breeze compared to any other minority, to be honest, especially in my education.

[Zona]

A GPA of 4 is basically straight A's (Highest grade possible to achieve). What 18 year old can do that? You are at the mercy of your professors who can give you a crappy grade unjustly.

He may change his mind. Even if he get's an engineering degree,  he could still apply to medical school. Several doctors my wife works with did exactly that.

Who do y'all think is more open to immigration of minorities? Traditionally white countries, or non-white? It is even possible to immigrate to Japan or South Korea or China? It may be possible, but with tons of roadblocks meant to discourage it. It does get tiring when you are white to be told you are racist and xenophobic when we are mostly the opposite. In general, we have been way more open to other races and ethnicities and diversity as a whole.

[homecoming]

1 minute ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I find it interesting that you consider this an extra leg up, but you don't consider being white in the first place to not have given you any sort of leg up? It did me. I've found being white to be a breeze compared to any other minority, to be honest, especially in my education.

I had always assumed that those tick-boxes were optional, and for survey purposes. They cannot be to let anyone get a leg up. If that was the case, how come I have spent my life ticking them, but never had any special treatment?