Anti-white Prejudice - does it exist?

[basil67]

@Enigma32 I left an example of anti-white racism earlier in the thread and was told that a sample of one isn't evidence of anti white racism (paraphrasing)

[homecoming]

6 hours ago, enigma32 said:

Just gonna leave this here. https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-nick-cannon-white-people-are-a-little-less-closer-to-animals-true-savages

OK, while this is of course incredibly insensitive and offensive, this is a reactionary statement. Cannon is reacting to experiences of racism perpetuated by white people, and a lot of context is present. This is a lot different from just walking around believing that another race is inferior, simply because that's just how you feel. 

These types of statements and reactions remind me a lot of the 'DARVO' component of abusive relationships. An abuser will continue to prod and poke the victim, until one day, the victim snaps back. The abuser then plays victim to reactionary abuse perpetuated by the victim. 

[sothereiwas]

16 hours ago, enigma32 said:

@homecoming so, basically, whatever Nick Cannon says, it's the fault of white people? Understood.

Also, it's worth noting that racist Nick apologized for his anti-semetic remarks but not for his anti-caucasian remarks. He also has not been fired for his job on Masked Singer. Compare that to someone like Roseanne Barr who was fired for making a racist joke. I guess some people just have privileges. 

Also of note, this disparate treatment is handed out by media institutions. There's that word again, institutions. Institutions treating people differently based on race. Hmmm, it seems like we have a term for that ....

[Amethyst68]

Quote

Anti-white prejudice is no doubt an awful experience for those individuals who lived it; it's currently not so widespread that it impacts white people's daily lives as a whole, though. There may be pockets of prejudiced people (a tiny minority within a minority), but the overwhelming majority of non-whites don't hate us. It doesn't help to make something seem bigger than it is, and comparing this to actual racism is, to my mind, completely counterproductive.There needs to be a sense of proportion.

This is a sweeping generalisation and depends where in the world you live. Not everywhere has a population where the majority is white or where white people hold the power.

[pepperbird]

On 7/19/2020 at 12:14 PM, homecoming said:

OK, while this is of course incredibly insensitive and offensive, this is a reactionary statement. Cannon is reacting to experiences of racism perpetuated by white people, and a lot of context is present. This is a lot different from just walking around believing that another race is inferior, simply because that's just how you feel. 

These types of statements and reactions remind me a lot of the 'DARVO' component of abusive relationships. An abuser will continue to prod and poke the victim, until one day, the victim snaps back. The abuser then plays victim to reactionary abuse perpetuated by the victim. 

He's just a bigot.

There's no excuse for that.

[sothereiwas]

3 minutes ago, pepperbird said:

He's just a bigot.

There's no excuse for that.

Bigots exist, and while it's distasteful I don't see a few isolated bigots as something society can't withstand. On the other had, if we allow institutions to enact policies that are clearly racially discriminatory, it undermines the fabric of society. This is the real threat, and we're allowing it. 

[Amethyst68]

On 7/19/2020 at 4:14 PM, homecoming said:

OK, while this is of course incredibly insensitive and offensive, this is a reactionary statement. Cannon is reacting to experiences of racism perpetuated by white people, and a lot of context is present. This is a lot different from just walking around believing that another race is inferior, simply because that's just how you feel. 

These types of statements and reactions remind me a lot of the 'DARVO' component of abusive relationships. An abuser will continue to prod and poke the victim, until one day, the victim snaps back. The abuser then plays victim to reactionary abuse perpetuated by the victim. 

Just so we're clear then if one of the people who has been a victim of anti white prejudice for years snapped and spouted something anti black you'd be so forgiving and posting about it?

I doubt it, I have a feeling you'd be condemning them along with everyone else.

There's quite clearly a double standard at play here.

[homecoming]

1 hour ago, pepperbird said:

He's just a bigot.

There's no excuse for that.

I don't know much about Cannon, as I'm in the UK and he isn't really on our radar. I'm just speaking about people's reactionary statements in general.

[homecoming]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

Just so we're clear then if one of the people who has been a victim of anti white prejudice for years snapped and spouted something anti black you'd be so forgiving and posting about it?

I doubt it, I have a feeling you'd be condemning them along with everyone else.

There's quite clearly a double standard at play here.

I'm not forgiving at all, my post opened with words that suggest I'm far from it. 

As has been discussed in the thread, there are a lot of nuances to anti-black behaviour, which often seems to be fuelled by bad experiences at work with a few black people, and not hundreds of years of oppression by society in general. 

Let's keep it on topic, I'm not really going to engage in assumptions about my character/beliefs. I'm speaking about Nick Cannon. Thanks.

[homecoming]

3 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

This is a sweeping generalisation and depends where in the world you live. Not everywhere has a population where the majority is white or where white people hold the power.

It's far from a generalisation. People in India, for example, are living the effects of colonialism. People in Trinidad and Barbados are living the effects of colonialism. Like, the effects of systemic oppression aren't located within one country.

[homecoming]

It's interesting to me, that there are strong reactions to Cannon's comments about white people. 

When black people/POC get offended about racism, we're often subject to racial gaslighting, or whataboutery - the existence of anti-black sentiments and practices are regularly denied/justified. Yet, when one man makes a set of derogatory comments about white people - bearing in mind what he says has no real impact on the lives of white people, in the same way that systemic oppression does - it's the worst thing in the world, he's a bigot, oh how dare he say such things, etc etc.

Imagine having to live with those sentiments said and thought about people of your race, every day, by wider society, by the media, by employers, by legal institutions, by educational systems... trust me, I'd love to have just one insignificant media figure with no real power in anything state some comments about my race, rather than the whole world thinking it. The privilege is real, if you ask me. White people get to ignore Nick Cannon and move on with their lives. Do black people have that same option?

Edited July 21, 2020 by homecoming

[sothereiwas]

45 minutes ago, homecoming said:

When black people/POC get offended about racism, we're often subject to racial gaslighting, or whataboutery

Please, find an equivalent example that was hand waved away by anyone mainstream. 

[mark clemson]

On 7/19/2020 at 8:14 AM, homecoming said:

OK, while this is of course incredibly insensitive and offensive, this is a reactionary statement. Cannon is reacting to experiences of racism perpetuated by white people, and a lot of context is present. This is a lot different from just walking around believing that another race is inferior, simply because that's just how you feel.

I'm glad you acknowledge it's a negative view on Cannon's part. I guess, I'm confused by your conclusion (bolded).

Nick feels how he feels and some other prejudiced person (e.g. a KKK member) feels how he feels. The context you refer to is the presence of institutional racism (for Cannon) and negative personal experiences (for the KKK member or what have you). Neither of those contexts realistically leads to the generalization that all people of the other race are inferior in some way.

If (and I agree BTW) the main difference is that Cannon experiences institutional racism, I just don't see how there's much of a logical difference. They both reached incorrect conclusions/a distorted (stereotyped) belief structure - just from a different set of experiences in life. Not EVERY white person Cannon interacted with treated him badly, right? And how does the conclusion that all white people need to kill, etc to survive stem from any of that. I'm sure he's interacted with plenty of white people (Simon Cowell comes to mind) who have no particular need to kill and indeed probably try to be positive. Such a view also ignores all the black-on-black crime that takes place.

Edited July 22, 2020 by mark clemson

[homecoming]

As stated

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

I'm glad you acknowledge it's a negative view on Cannon's part. I guess, I'm confused by your conclusion (bolded).

Nick feels how he feels and some other prejudiced person (e.g. a KKK member) feels how he feels. The context you refer to is the presence of institutional racism (for Cannon) and negative personal experiences (for the KKK member or what have you). Neither of those contexts realistically leads to the generalization that all people of the other race are inferior in some way.

If (and I agree BTW) the main difference is that Cannon experiences institutional racism, I just don't see how there's much of a logical difference. They both reached incorrect conclusions/a distorted (stereotyped) belief structure - just from a different set of experiences in life. Not EVERY white person Cannon interacted with treated him badly, right? And how does the conclusion that all white people need to kill, etc to survive stem from any of that. I'm sure he's interacted with plenty of white people (Simon Cowell comes to mind) who have no particular need to kill and indeed probably try to be positive. Such a view also ignores all the black-on-black crime that takes place.

As stated in a further post, I find it confusing how we must acknowledge instances of prejudice towards white people, and those against black people are argued away/justified/rationalised/gaslighted. 
 

Also, it’s really problematic to say black-on-black crime. Is there Asian-on-Asian crime? White-on-white? Black-on-Black crime is a very tired statement, and is one of the facets of racial gaslighting that I am talking about. 
 

Your very post, again, is arguing the existence of white prejudice from one black man, trying to prove to me that what he’s said is wrong, offensive, etc. But why doesn’t anyone really take black people seriously? I feel like it’s not really reciprocal, to be honest. That’s my personal view. People want to oppose BLM, but cry foul when one black man says something insulting. 
 

and why compare one man to a vigilante organisation who’ve been lynching people for years? It’s not the same. 
 

 

[homecoming]

1 hour ago, enigma32 said:

@homecomingshow me one prominent white person that has recently said anything about black people that is anything similar to what Nick Cannon said. Not something said in 1950 and not something said by some fringe nutter in a white hood. Just for reference....

"they (white people) have the lack of compassion. Melanin comes with compassion, melanin comes with soul." Nick Cannon

"When you have a person that has the lack of pigment, the lack of melanin, they know they will be annihilated..." Nick Cannon

"They're acting out of fear, they're acting out of low self esteem, so therefore, the only way they can act is evil. They have to rob, steal, rape, kill, in order to survive." Nick Cannon

'So then these people that didn't have what we have...when I say we I speak of the melanated people, they had to be savages, they had to be barbaric, because they're in these Nordic mountains, they're in these rough terrain environments, so they're acting as animals. So, they're the ones that are actually closer to animals. They're the ones that are actually the true savages." Nick Cannon

Oh, and like I mentioned before, despite saying all these things, Nick has the privilege to still work on TV. 

Look, I’m not going to write down every single piece of racism against black people. If you want to pretend it doesn’t exist, and focus on this one set of comments from some insignificant man, go on. You know what systemic oppression is, and what Nick Cannon has said isn’t that, and will never affect white people lives. Please don’t mention me again, thank you. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by homecoming

[homecoming]

Dismissed

Edited July 22, 2020 by homecoming

[gaius]

Nick Cannon grew up poor in a crap neighborhood. The kind of kid a lot of people nowadays would say was doomed to failure because of his zip code. But he didn't fail. He worked his butt off and made something of himself. To the point where he even landed Mariah Carey, his dream girl. There should be statues and murals of him, not of garbage like Michael Brown or Colin Kapernick.

Which is what makes all this so sad. Whether you're white, black, brown or purple you should be allowed to have a conversation about race without losing your livelihood if what comes out isn't 100% prim and proper. What he said should have spawned further conversation. To clarify what he was talking about and/or get to the root of his feelings on the matter.

Same thing if a white person said something derogatory about black people. This crusade to destroy people, even someone as admirable as Nick Cannon, is just so unhealthy and destructive.

[mark clemson]

  11 hours ago, homecoming said:

As stated in a further post, I find it confusing how we must acknowledge instances of prejudice towards white people, and those against black people are argued away/justified/rationalised/gaslighted.

Fair enough - let me address some of your points.

Speaking for myself, I don't think prejudice against black people should be dismissed at all and certainly not justified. There are many folks of all races that agree with that view. I'm fine with BLM as a movement and, while I don't particularly approve of some of more violent things that have happened, I would indeed be perfectly happy if all the specific cops who are truly racist and abusive were expunged and, even better, brought to justice, rather than being coddled by the system. While cops have a very difficult job, nothing excuses some of the abuses that clearly happen with some frequency. For myself, I'm not at all trying to argue away prejudice against black people. This thread is about prejudice against whites specifically, so that's why I'm focused on that here.

 

11 hours ago, homecoming said:

Also, it’s really problematic to say black-on-black crime. Is there Asian-on-Asian crime? White-on-white? Black-on-Black crime is a very tired statement, and is one of the facets of racial gaslighting that I am talking about.

My point in bringing up black-black crime is not to gaslight and/or try to claim that therefore white-black crime or abuses by police somehow don't matter. It's simply to point out that Cannon's views (which I assume represent those of a certain, presumably small, % of black people) seem to disregard that. I think some folks DO try to do that with black-black crime, so I can see how you feel that way.

 

11 hours ago, homecoming said:

Your very post, again, is arguing the existence of white prejudice from one black man, trying to prove to me that what he’s said is wrong, offensive, etc. But why doesn’t anyone really take black people seriously? I feel like it’s not really reciprocal, to be honest. That’s my personal view. People want to oppose BLM, but cry foul when one black man says something insulting.

Again, I do take black people seriously. I have multiple black blood relatives including two young nieces and don't care to see them abused by cops or anyone else.

 

11 hours ago, homecoming said:

and why compare one man to a vigilante organisation who’ve been lynching people for years? It’s not the same.

Fair enough. I do believe my original post holds just as true if we replace "KKK member" with "some bigoted redneck" or even "some random white person who happens to be racist" though. It's also true that there are black supremacists groups, although any that are openly so are certainly small and have done little actual harm relative to the KKK and similar groups.

Overall, I think a lot of what you're seeing in my post stems from the fact that this is a thread devoted to discussion of prejudice against whites. Cannon is a well-known figure who appears to hold those views.

[elaine567]

Nick Cannon appears to be a black supremacist.

Quote

A doctrine of black supremacy is as dangerous as a doctrine of white supremacy. God is not interested in the freedom of black men or brown men or yellow men. God is interested in the freedom of the whole human race, the creation of a society where every man will respect the dignity and worth of personality.

— Martin Luther King, Jr., Speech at the Southern Methodist University, March 17, 1966.

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by elaine567
spacing

[Prudence V]

On 7/22/2020 at 4:19 AM, homecoming said:

what Nick Cannon has said isn’t that, and will never affect white people lives. 

...unless they choose to let it. 
 

black people don’t have that choice. 

[sothereiwas]

1 hour ago, Prudence V said:

...unless they choose to let it. 
 

black people don’t have that choice. 

How so. I know examples in the past, but not now. What force is legally applied to cause this to be true?

[Timshel]

It's very difficult to explain to others what it is to walk around with a particular skin color.  What day to day experiences would a person have if they were able to make them self a different ethnicity; if a Caucasian person were to make their appearance as a person of color for a week and if a person of color would be fair skinned for a week.

We are all in our own skin and our perceptions will be based on such in an inherent and fundamental way.  Only a very empathetic person who has a strong desire to understand would get even half way; the old adage 'to walk a mile in their shoes' comes to mind and with that a fair level of humility.

I don't think that it is possible for white people to comprehend what poc experience in life, not their fault, how could they know, really.  The best they can do is to stand firmly for equality, to understand that they do not understand and have respect for this truth. 

Anti-white prejudice?  When I was in middle school I was cornered in the locker room by three black girls and put up by their hands for a minute by the neck.  They hated me and I'm not mad, or indignant.

[homecoming]

On 7/19/2020 at 11:37 PM, enigma32 said:

@homecoming so, basically, whatever Nick Cannon says, it's the fault of white people? Understood.

Also, it's worth noting that racist Nick apologized for his anti-semetic remarks but not for his anti-caucasian remarks. He also has not been fired for his job on Masked Singer. Compare that to someone like Roseanne Barr who was fired for making a racist joke. I guess some people just have privileges. 

Enigma, you think what you want to think. You're twisting and manipulating things. 

I'm secure in my own knowledge and beliefs, you clearly are, too. Good day.

[homecoming]

Funny how Nick Cannon - whoever he is - is suddenly so important to everyone. And he was fired from his position on another channel, MTV, I think? Cherry picking information. 

Funny, if people are so offended by his statements, why not be empathetic with those who also experience prejudice day in and day out? Not just a couple of statements once, by some guy who you didn't really care about before he said anything. As I've said. I'd rather experience one guy who I've barely heard of say something about my race, than be living in a society fundamentally based on oppression and racism against people of my race. 

Please don't quote me again if it's to argue/debate with me, it is tiring having to keep explaining the existence of something and to keep having it denied. Thanks.

Edited July 23, 2020 by homecoming

[sothereiwas]

2 minutes ago, homecoming said:

Funny how Nick Cannon - whoever he is - is suddenly so important to everyone.

He's not important. The institutional disparities in how policies are enforced about this sort of thing - those are important.