inappropriate relationships/infidelity

[merrmeade]

13 hours ago, merrmeade said:

4Paws, this train has derailed and taken off on another track. 

I think we need to go back to page 1 when you asked about retrieving messages. Did you have the same phone?

4Paws, you’ve made a heroic effort to clarify,  reinforce and correct misinterpretations and exaggerations, which was a good exercise for you, but not really getting you any closer to identifying and solving the real problem. YOUR thinking deeply and writing about it is going to help you, but i think the other thread was working and making you face real issues that resonated. Feel free to message me privately.

[merrmeade]

On 11/3/2020 at 8:16 PM, 4paws said:

 One time he told me he was going to call my ex husband to get answers. I told him that was fine because nothing was going on with us. He came home later that day and showed me a video of him calling my ex. In the video it never showed them talking just my husband's phone calling my ex. Then my husband asked me if I was sure I had nothing to tell him I said no I said what I said was true. He said he had another video of them actually talking but I couldn't see it.

Later we went to eat and my husband was cold towards me. He was acting mad at me and I knew if my ex told him the truth he shouldn't be mad. So I got suspicious and when my husband left for work that night I used my sisters phone to call my ex t see what he told my husband. I was mad at my ex because if my husband was mad that meant he lied. 

My ex told me that he never spoke to my husband. He had a missed call from him but didn't know who it was so he didn't answer. Later when my husband came home he showed me that he recorded me asking my sister to use her phone to call me ex. When my husband asked me about it at first I lied and told him I didnt call me ex. Then he showed me the recording. He asked if I wouldve ever told him I called my ex and I said probably not.

Before that call to my ex I hadn't spoken to him in years. I told him he knew nothing ever happened between us and he said he would call my husband back and let him know the truth. I told him not to lie to him. My husband thinks we were trying to cover up our story. That wasn't the case but I understand why he felt that way. 

I have handled every situation horribly and I wish I could take all of it back. Me doing this made it to where my husband can't even trust that I wouldn't do that again. I havent and dont want to, but I broke that trust. Most cheaters actually cheat physically and thats not what happened here. It isn't and wasn't a game. There was no joy or excitement that happened when all of this happened. 

I have many flaws, and my character is a huge one. I own up to what I did even though I didnt bring any of it to light. My husband had to find everything on his own. I made him have to do that. 

I think everybody is a little unsure what happened. I even got mixed up which thread I was in. Many of us have taken your word for it that you messed up. Others have thought it’s your husband, although that never made any sense to me. You haven’t once complained about him in the way that they took up as a cause - jealous, controlling husband. Blaming your husband is bizarre to me. Also seems like a waste of time for someone who needs to hear some hard truths - like you.

I see several things going on - besides the weird way people jumped on the idea that your husband is a control freak - and will mention them in case it’s helpful. One is that your first email that laid out the story gave a LOT more information and usually that’s how threads start in the Infidelity forum. This opening post really produced a unified set of responses, it seemed to me. We all thought your husband had a valid issue, and we seemed to agree that you weren’t really telling everything, and you got a LOT of good advice. The second thread began with a very short post that said you were confused and didn’t know what to do. I think a lot of those responders didn’t read your original thread and just went with the notion that you were the victim, not your husband. So I’m just saying that how much information you offer in your opening post is really crucial. 

The other reason for confusion is that these conversations were so long ago, you don’t remember how or if they were inappropriate. Many of us just took that to mean that you were unaware because, well, you’re just generally unaware. That’s how a lot of “We’re just friends” people dismiss their inappropriate friendships (emotional relationships, flirting, or whatever it is that goes over the line). Everyone agrees that the lying was indefensible, but after that it was divided. Some take you at your word - nothing physical: end of story. Others think it’s nonsense or lack of personal experience (and, therefore, nonsense) to think it was so innocent. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have lied about it. So there’s that.

As far as the marriage counselor is concerned, I think you’d do better to find someone who supports your husband and understands the trauma that happens to a spouse who feels betrayed. In other words, someone who will help you focus on the fact of this betrayal - the circumstances that created it (including your actions and state of mind then and now) and what they mean to/how they affected your  husband. This therapist would help you unpack your actions from that period - with your husband present - carefully so that you can see how and when you were inappropriate and why. You need someone in your life, in my opinion - not strangers in a forum - helping you to see what you’re not aware of. None of us can efficiently ask you the questions that will get to the bottom of your problem and how things got to this point. You tried, I know, to get therapy to deal with things, but as you’ve been advised, many marriage counselors just sweep the past under the rug and treat you both as equally at fault. But you need someone that will do the opposite—put the “moving on” part on hold while you get some understanding of how you messed up and what your thinking was back then and now. For all that, I think it’s FAR, FAR better for you to get someone professional who meets with you face to face - even if it’s online. 

Even more, you need to be crystal clear about how the other person - the ex and the co-worker - was reacting to you, why that person was communicating with you and how. I suspect THAT is where your answer lies as to why you did it and why you hid it. Personally, I don’t think you recognize what is considered “flirting.” You don’t realize that you canNOT characterize a man/woman friendship between straight people as no different from a same sex friendship. But if you get a good therapist who realizes this, s/he can ask the questions to make YOU see what was different and how. S/He can get you to talk about the ways you, perhaps, teased each other in ways you wouldn’t do with a woman or, perhaps, got personal and even suggestive in ways that veer the conversation into sort of tantalizing or stimulating areas that are just this side of acceptable. I’m not saying that’s what you did. I really don’t know since you’ve mainly insisted these conversations were okay because they weren’t physical, which simply said to me that you don’t recognize the range of “inappropriate” behavior that happens between asexual platonic and consciously sexual.

Now, if none of that is possible, then pay a professional to retrieve the damn messages. 

Good luck. 

[Acacia98]

2 minutes ago, S2B said:

So he lied about having a recorded conversation with your exH and you lied and contacted your exH - then he recorded you while you called.

just divorce each other! There is absolutely no trust nor respect between you two. It’s done!

My sentiments, too. I initially felt her husband's reaction was completely justified. But the more she has written, the more it seems like, in the aftermath of the betrayal, their relationship could eventually turn into a punitive/emotionally abusive one. She said something about being more concerned about his happiness than her own, and that was a bit disturbing. Because if she believes she deserves severe punishment forever, imagine how much she will willingly endure just to keep the marriage going. And, depending on what kind of personality her husband has, her super-submissive attitude may bring out the worst in him.

I've also started wondering if she grew up in a scenario where there was a controlling authority figure with a hair-trigger temper, and she learned to lie in order to create a space where she could exercise her free will and avoid punishment for it. She seems to have gone into marriage with the belief (subconscious?) that lying to do what you want is normal. And so perhaps she's unknowingly reproduced part of that dynamic in her marriage. And her husband seems to be inadvertently falling into playing the corresponding role of policing her and manipulating her.

I'm not convinced that doing what they're doing will enable them to transition into a space where forgiveness and the rebuilding of trust will follow. It sounds like they need a counsellor who knows what he/she is doing to help them. And even with that counsellor, it may turn out to be best for them to separate.

I'm also inclined to agree with @merrmeade's sentiments about the nature of OP's friendships with the men. 

[Loneheart]

On 11/4/2020 at 8:35 PM, Noproblem said:

Well, then you were control freak as well which is not healthy at all!

 

But It does not matter what you think, you are living in delusions and denials and in a very mentally abusive relationship that you are unaware of. Your husband has succeed in making you feel like you are a untrusty human being. 

The way you put yourself down as if you killed someone, or committed a crime! You only kept talking with two males, one is a coworker and the other is an ex! how is that a crime? 
NO sex, no love, no affairs, just talking as friends! Since when that is a crime, yeah you lied about it, but for good reasons, for pretty good reason, your inner mind knew what kind of husband you have and decided it was better to hide it!

You are now making yourself a martyr, a doormat until this "HUSBAND" of yours forgive you!

Why is that? You have to think why you are doing this to yourself?

 

Wake up, know your worth! You did nothing wrong that requires this back and forth torture!

 

Time for you to stop asking for forgiveness and reclaim your life and read books about your worth!

 

He is just a guy and you can live well without him if he is giving you a hard time!

 

The constant idea of omg is I have sinned, forgive me father, what is this!

Here

I will say this

and one day you will remember this and say someone online was right:

I guarantee you, your husband already has lied to you on lots of things that also involve woman, but yeah keep  pretending that you are the worst wife in the world!

 

You made a mistake by lying and you should not have done that, but that was it You know you lied and you learned your lesson well!

 Nothing more, nothing less!

Please stop saying I have flaws I have flaws I am bad I am bad

We get it --> you lied to your husband ( big deal, he lied too, you'll one day find out!)

So Submissive in a scary and alarming way, I can see you are abused, time for you to realize that as well! Submission is only cool in a sexual context, not in real life style on a daily basis! It's humiliating and sad, look at all the free birds around you, then look at your cage...You made that cage, you can get out anytime! Break that cage and be free, even if you love your jailor, he still willing to keep you there!

 

 

I appreciate your input however I dont agree. You would have to see how my husband and I are together. Its not at all as you are making it seem. He in no way abuses me. I chose to lie to him because I didnt want him mad at me. That clearly didn't work out. If I was him I would feel the same way. My husband is a really good man and deserves the world. I know im a good woman but I have made horrible choices in my life that sadly have consequences. The worst is that those consequences caused pain to the one I love the most.

[Loneheart]

On 11/7/2020 at 12:27 PM, Acacia98 said:

Nah. In this particular instance, your husband was playing a dangerous manipulative game with you. You would have failed the "test" no matter what you did.

I think it's commendable that you acknowledge where you went wrong and want to fix things. But your husband is crossing a line. If he doesn't have the capacity to trust you AT ALL and never will, he should break up with you. Alternatively, if he needs time alone, you guys should separate so that he can figure out what he wants. 

He is hurt and dealing with everything the best he can. Its alot to deal with and I have made it even worse. No matter what I shouldn't have ever reached out to my ex. 

[Loneheart]

19 hours ago, merrmeade said:

I think everybody is a little unsure what happened. I even got mixed up which thread I was in. Many of us have taken your word for it that you messed up. Others have thought it’s your husband, although that never made any sense to me. You haven’t once complained about him in the way that they took up as a cause - jealous, controlling husband. Blaming your husband is bizarre to me. Also seems like a waste of time for someone who needs to hear some hard truths - like you.

I see several things going on - besides the weird way people jumped on the idea that your husband is a control freak - and will mention them in case it’s helpful. One is that your first email that laid out the story gave a LOT more information and usually that’s how threads start in the Infidelity forum. This opening post really produced a unified set of responses, it seemed to me. We all thought your husband had a valid issue, and we seemed to agree that you weren’t really telling everything, and you got a LOT of good advice. The second thread began with a very short post that said you were confused and didn’t know what to do. I think a lot of those responders didn’t read your original thread and just went with the notion that you were the victim, not your husband. So I’m just saying that how much information you offer in your opening post is really crucial. 

The other reason for confusion is that these conversations were so long ago, you don’t remember how or if they were inappropriate. Many of us just took that to mean that you were unaware because, well, you’re just generally unaware. That’s how a lot of “We’re just friends” people dismiss their inappropriate friendships (emotional relationships, flirting, or whatever it is that goes over the line). Everyone agrees that the lying was indefensible, but after that it was divided. Some take you at your word - nothing physical: end of story. Others think it’s nonsense or lack of personal experience (and, therefore, nonsense) to think it was so innocent. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have lied about it. So there’s that.

As far as the marriage counselor is concerned, I think you’d do better to find someone who supports your husband and understands the trauma that happens to a spouse who feels betrayed. In other words, someone who will help you focus on the fact of this betrayal - the circumstances that created it (including your actions and state of mind then and now) and what they mean to/how they affected your  husband. This therapist would help you unpack your actions from that period - with your husband present - carefully so that you can see how and when you were inappropriate and why. You need someone in your life, in my opinion - not strangers in a forum - helping you to see what you’re not aware of. None of us can efficiently ask you the questions that will get to the bottom of your problem and how things got to this point. You tried, I know, to get therapy to deal with things, but as you’ve been advised, many marriage counselors just sweep the past under the rug and treat you both as equally at fault. But you need someone that will do the opposite—put the “moving on” part on hold while you get some understanding of how you messed up and what your thinking was back then and now. For all that, I think it’s FAR, FAR better for you to get someone professional who meets with you face to face - even if it’s online. 

Even more, you need to be crystal clear about how the other person - the ex and the co-worker - was reacting to you, why that person was communicating with you and how. I suspect THAT is where your answer lies as to why you did it and why you hid it. Personally, I don’t think you recognize what is considered “flirting.” You don’t realize that you canNOT characterize a man/woman friendship between straight people as no different from a same sex friendship. But if you get a good therapist who realizes this, s/he can ask the questions to make YOU see what was different and how. S/He can get you to talk about the ways you, perhaps, teased each other in ways you wouldn’t do with a woman or, perhaps, got personal and even suggestive in ways that veer the conversation into sort of tantalizing or stimulating areas that are just this side of acceptable. I’m not saying that’s what you did. I really don’t know since you’ve mainly insisted these conversations were okay because they weren’t physical, which simply said to me that you don’t recognize the range of “inappropriate” behavior that happens between asexual platonic and consciously sexual.

Now, if none of that is possible, then pay a professional to retrieve the damn messages. 

Good luck. 

There is so much to the story and its hard to follow along without starting from the very beginning of our relationship and even before we were officially dating.

I would love to have someone I can lay all of it out to and go through things step by step. Im ok with hearing my part in everything and taking the things that are hard to hear. No matter what I want to save my marriage and if that means having to hear things like that then thats what it means. I can't fix something if I don't know or understand why its broke. (Not meaning our relationship, just in general).

Sadly I dont have a single person I can talk to about any of this. I know it helps when there is someone who knows you and knows how you are. I dont have anyone but my therapist and psychologist to talk to.

Im still on the hunt for a new therapist. While reading "Not Just Friends" I read about how to know if you have the right therapist or not. Based off of what I read I dont have a good match of a therapist for my husband and I. The last time I was on here I had reached out to 6 or 7 different therapists and only 2 of the have responded to me. Im not giving up.

[Loneheart]

12 hours ago, S2B said:

So he lied about having a recorded conversation with your exH and you lied and contacted your exH - then he recorded you while you called.

just divorce each other! There is absolutely no trust nor respect between you two. It’s done!

I disagree. I feel like it was all in anger and he just needed answers. I dont blame him.

[Loneheart]

On 11/4/2020 at 5:08 AM, schlumpy said:

I think you have it right. You have given him every reason to believe he can't trust you.

If you want to stay you have to pay penance. Length of time is undertermined.

Don't be disappointed if your relationship does not not go back to what it was before. You changed it but if you try hard enough, maybe it can be for the better.

I'm hoping we can come together and deal with everything that's best for us. I hope our relationship can come out better than before even though I'm not sure it can. I still have some hope.

[Loneheart]

On 11/4/2020 at 7:31 AM, elaine567 said:

^^^ this.
4paws
You only get one life, get free asap.

Else this husband of yours will ruin your mental health for years, if not forever.

My husband is not a jerk and there is no need for name calling. My husband has every right to feel how he does and im going to try my best to help him and myself get through this. Hopefully we can together.

If he does decide he wants to divorce me then I will know its simply because we can't be fixed, but not because he wants to hurt me or abuse me. That is not the kind of man my husband is. I wont tolerate people bad mouthing him either. You are entitled to your opinions but there is no need to put him down.

[Loneheart]

On 11/4/2020 at 7:49 AM, Ellener said:

I totally think you are right in an ideal situation but most women in our world have inadvertently been dependent on men for housing, and in the US health care.

My husband was physically abusive so I did the only thing I could and threw him out but I had always let his career take precedence because that's what women my age did in my culture.

Everything comes at a price. 

Now I realise what damage it all did to my son, because he loves me but of course it would be a better life for him as a sexist.

 

My husband loves me and doesn't abuse me or treat me badly. Even through all of this he has tried not to be mean to me. Its alot for him to deal with and I caused it all. I mean what about his mental health?

[Ellener]

14 minutes ago, 4paws said:

My husband loves me and doesn't abuse me or treat me badly. Even through all of this he has tried not to be mean to me. Its alot for him to deal with and I caused it all. I mean what about his mental health?

He's responsible for his own mental health issues.

Maybe you can talk to a counsellor, get another unbiased opinion?

At the end of the day it's your choice, what you are getting is the advice here from women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships.

I watched this comedy last night and in the actress commentary at the end she said something pertinent: no relationship can survive without forgiveness...and forgiveness is not something you say, it's something you feel.

 

 

[merrmeade]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:09 PM, Ellener said:

He's responsible for his own mental health issues.

Maybe you can talk to a counsellor, get another unbiased opinion?

At the end of the day it's your choice, what you are getting is the advice here from women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships.

I watched this comedy last night and in the actress commentary at the end she said something pertinent: no relationship can survive without forgiveness...and forgiveness is not something you say, it's something you feel.

For the 10th time: just NO. 4Paws has explained it, refuted it and tried to wrestle back her own thread, but this nonsense about the husband being the problem just doesn't go away.  She's getting advice from a bunch of people who didn't read her posts OR have never experienced the circumstances she described, namely a cheating spouse. Nobody's looked back to read what she actually wrote and those obsessed with this invented drama with no basis are people who have little personal experience with betrayal in marriage.

It is NOT about whether or not 4Paws can have male friends. It is NOT about whether or not she did anything wrong. Just because she can't say exactly what she and the other men talked about, she still agrees it was off limits. You know, flirting covers a huge gamut and encompasses simple interest, flattery, teasing, and LOTS of chit-chat before it gets to suggestive innuendo. At the very least, there's some degree of flattery involved for two unmarried men to be in constant contact with this supposedly unavailable female. When she said she didn't realize that it was inappropriate at the time because it wasn't physical, that was exactly what she meant: SHE didn't understand it. Nothing more or less. But she admits she doesn't understand a lot. She isn't very self-aware or aware of why she does a lot of things. Does that mean it wasn't inappropriate or - without the double negative - that it was appropriate? No, it simply means that she chose to compartmentalize what she was doing and not think about why she couldn't tell her husband. That just means she's not that aware of relationship dynamics. She's never told us what she was talking or texting about with the two other men. She just doesn't remember. That doesn't mean it was innocent, which the "women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships" have accepted.

But it doesn't seem that anyone bothered to learn the details of her situation before the BS blaming began. Why are "women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships" hanging out in the Infidelity forum in the first place?? What interest could it possibly hold? What's next?  Calling all betrayed spouses control freaks? 

4Paws, I tried to write you a private message but you haven't been posting long enough to be able to receive them. I don't know what to tell you. I've never seen anything like this on here. Maybe write the moderators and ask if you can receive PMs now. I'll probably get a ticket for this rant, which will change exactly nothing. It's like the outside insanity has turned everything inside out in here, too.

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by merrmeade

[Ellener]

20 hours ago, merrmeade said:

I'll probably get a ticket for this rant

I don't think you've written anything which contavenes LS rules, people are allowed to disagree with each other ( politely! ) 

 

 

[Ellener]

20 hours ago, merrmeade said:

Why are "women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships" hanging out in the Infidelity forum in the first place??

The 'most popular' posts which show up on the side of the page don't define what the forum is and people respond to the titles I am guessing.

[Loneheart]

On 11/4/2020 at 7:31 AM, elaine567 said:

^^^ this.
4paws
You only get one life, get free asap.

Else this husband of yours will ruin your mental health for years, if not forever.

I disagree. He is right in how he has been.

[Loneheart]

On 11/9/2020 at 2:09 PM, Ellener said:

He's responsible for his own mental health issues.

Maybe you can talk to a counsellor, get another unbiased opinion?

At the end of the day it's your choice, what you are getting is the advice here from women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships.

I watched this comedy last night and in the actress commentary at the end she said something pertinent: no relationship can survive without forgiveness...and forgiveness is not something you say, it's something you feel.

 

 

I worry ive done to much to be forgiven.

[Loneheart]

On 11/11/2020 at 2:13 AM, merrmeade said:

For the 10th time: just NO. 4Paws has explained it, refuted it and tried to wrestle back her own thread, but this nonsense about the husband being the problem just doesn't go away.  She's getting advice from a bunch of people who didn't read her posts OR have never experienced the circumstances she described, namely a cheating spouse. Nobody's looked back to read what she actually wrote and those obsessed with this invented drama with no basis are people who have little personal experience with betrayal in marriage.

It is NOT about whether or not 4Paws can have male friends. It is NOT about whether or not she did anything wrong. Just because she can't say exactly what she and the other men talked about, she still agrees it was off limits. You know, flirting covers a huge gamut and encompasses simple interest, flattery, teasing, and LOTS of chit-chat before it gets to suggestive innuendo. At the very least, there's some degree of flattery involved for two unmarried men to be in constant contact with this supposedly unavailable female. When she said she didn't realize that it was inappropriate at the time because it wasn't physical, that was exactly what she meant: SHE didn't understand it. Nothing more or less. But she admits she doesn't understand a lot. She isn't very self-aware or aware of why she does a lot of things. Does that mean it wasn't inappropriate or - without the double negative - that it was appropriate? No, it simply means that she chose to compartmentalize what she was doing and not think about why she couldn't tell her husband. That just means she's not that aware of relationship dynamics. She's never told us what she was talking or texting about with the two other men. She just doesn't remember. That doesn't mean it was innocent, which the "women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships" have accepted.

But it doesn't seem that anyone bothered to learn the details of her situation before the BS blaming began. Why are "women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships" hanging out in the Infidelity forum in the first place?? What interest could it possibly hold? What's next?  Calling all betrayed spouses control freaks? 

4Paws, I tried to write you a private message but you haven't been posting long enough to be able to receive them. I don't know what to tell you. I've never seen anything like this on here. Maybe write the moderators and ask if you can receive PMs now. I'll probably get a ticket for this rant, which will change exactly nothing. It's like the outside insanity has turned everything inside out in here, too.

 

I'll try to figure out how to contact you directly. That way I can give you the whole entire story as well.

[Loneheart]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:41 AM, Acacia98 said:

My sentiments, too. I initially felt her husband's reaction was completely justified. But the more she has written, the more it seems like, in the aftermath of the betrayal, their relationship could eventually turn into a punitive/emotionally abusive one. She said something about being more concerned about his happiness than her own, and that was a bit disturbing. Because if she believes she deserves severe punishment forever, imagine how much she will willingly endure just to keep the marriage going. And, depending on what kind of personality her husband has, her super-submissive attitude may bring out the worst in him.

I've also started wondering if she grew up in a scenario where there was a controlling authority figure with a hair-trigger temper, and she learned to lie in order to create a space where she could exercise her free will and avoid punishment for it. She seems to have gone into marriage with the belief (subconscious?) that lying to do what you want is normal. And so perhaps she's unknowingly reproduced part of that dynamic in her marriage. And her husband seems to be inadvertently falling into playing the corresponding role of policing her and manipulating her.

I'm not convinced that doing what they're doing will enable them to transition into a space where forgiveness and the rebuilding of trust will follow. It sounds like they need a counsellor who knows what he/she is doing to help them. And even with that counsellor, it may turn out to be best for them to separate.

I'm also inclined to agree with @merrmeade's sentiments about the nature of OP's friendships with the men. 

I havent had good healthy relationship role models in my life, maybe that's an issue? I dont think my husband wants to hurt me he just gets angry as he has every right to be. I dont think I deserved to be punished forever but I also don't think my husband should live in fear of his distrust for me or my faithfulness. I have found a new therapist but I dont think my husband is willing to go anymore because I wasnt truthful to the ones I had before until the very end.

[Loneheart]

On 11/11/2020 at 2:13 AM, merrmeade said:

For the 10th time: just NO. 4Paws has explained it, refuted it and tried to wrestle back her own thread, but this nonsense about the husband being the problem just doesn't go away.  She's getting advice from a bunch of people who didn't read her posts OR have never experienced the circumstances she described, namely a cheating spouse. Nobody's looked back to read what she actually wrote and those obsessed with this invented drama with no basis are people who have little personal experience with betrayal in marriage.

It is NOT about whether or not 4Paws can have male friends. It is NOT about whether or not she did anything wrong. Just because she can't say exactly what she and the other men talked about, she still agrees it was off limits. You know, flirting covers a huge gamut and encompasses simple interest, flattery, teasing, and LOTS of chit-chat before it gets to suggestive innuendo. At the very least, there's some degree of flattery involved for two unmarried men to be in constant contact with this supposedly unavailable female. When she said she didn't realize that it was inappropriate at the time because it wasn't physical, that was exactly what she meant: SHE didn't understand it. Nothing more or less. But she admits she doesn't understand a lot. She isn't very self-aware or aware of why she does a lot of things. Does that mean it wasn't inappropriate or - without the double negative - that it was appropriate? No, it simply means that she chose to compartmentalize what she was doing and not think about why she couldn't tell her husband. That just means she's not that aware of relationship dynamics. She's never told us what she was talking or texting about with the two other men. She just doesn't remember. That doesn't mean it was innocent, which the "women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships" have accepted.

But it doesn't seem that anyone bothered to learn the details of her situation before the BS blaming began. Why are "women ( and men ) who would be uncomfortable with controlling behaviours in their relationships" hanging out in the Infidelity forum in the first place?? What interest could it possibly hold? What's next?  Calling all betrayed spouses control freaks? 

4Paws, I tried to write you a private message but you haven't been posting long enough to be able to receive them. I don't know what to tell you. I've never seen anything like this on here. Maybe write the moderators and ask if you can receive PMs now. I'll probably get a ticket for this rant, which will change exactly nothing. It's like the outside insanity has turned everything inside out in here, too.

 

I reached out to the moderators and I cant receive messages until ive been on here long enough. They said the forums are open for a reason. Any other way we can message?

[Ellener]

10 hours ago, 4paws said:

I have found a new therapist but I dont think my husband is willing to go anymore because I wasnt truthful to the ones I had before until the very end.

It takes time to build trust with a therapist, especially in the face of anger. You need to do therapy alone/separately first.

Everyone lives their individual experience of the same situation, it's important for a therapist to help someone they help you with yours first.

10 hours ago, 4paws said:

I dont think my husband wants to hurt me he just gets angry as he has every right to be.

How does he express his anger?

8 hours ago, 4paws said:

I reached out to the moderators and I cant receive messages until ive been on here long enough. They said the forums are open for a reason. Any other way we can message?

Or you could just post enough/long enough and not try to cut across boundaries?

 

 

 

[Pottering About]

Hi 4paws. Can I firstly say you seem to be attracting quite a few comments here which, if we are charitable, do not IMO offer any real help to you. Please do not let them drive you off this forum and I probably would not bother to respond to them.

I have followed your two strings of posts with interest but, unless I have missed it, I can not see an explanation as to why you felt the need to stay in such constant touch with your ex. Do you think that, if you are really honest with yourself, then you might understand the reasons why you lied to your husband and can offer a true, believable explanation to him. He may not like the answer but it could give you a way forward, particularly as he is looking for an answer about your behaviour and obviously has on going issues and/or insecurities about your ex. 

But, you have to be really honest with yourself as the only loser if you lie is you. You have already said that he is not controlling so you can’t use that as a reason and “I don’t know” doesn’t cut it. Nor does thinking that it was not inappropriate because you lied so you must have realised you were doing something wrong. If you “just wanted to stay friends”, why? What did the ex offer that your husband could not? You went to a lot of effort to keep contact going so it must have been an important reason. At least be honest with yourself!
 

As an aside, and excuse me if I have missed it, have you met up with your ex again because I have a suspicion that you have. It is just the way you write and half say things (never had a physical relationship (sex) after you and your now husband got together but says nothing about meeting etc). If I, as someone who only reads your posts, think that is a possibility then think what your husband must be running through his mind. I would suggest if you have met him and have not told your husband, that you get your coat!
 

For my part, the relationship with your male nurse does not seem such a problem, except for the fact you lied continuously. My wife had a close male work friend for a number of years where there was no sexual attraction but it did annoy me at times as I thought I was sometimes treated as second best, particularly for work related issues. I could cope in the main because of her openness with me but it still caused a few major rows along the way. Perhaps, if you can resolve why you lied about your ex, that may put your lying about the nurse into context.

 

Apologies if you have already covered the above points in previous posts but let’s bring this post back to you and not about your husband. I sincerely hope everything works out well for you

 

 

[Loneheart]

13 hours ago, Ellener said:

It takes time to build trust with a therapist, especially in the face of anger. You need to do therapy alone/separately first.

Everyone lives their individual experience of the same situation, it's important for a therapist to help someone they help you with yours first.

How does he express his anger?

Or you could just post enough/long enough and not try to cut across boundaries?

 

 

 

He expresses his anger verbally. What do you mean by cut across boundaries? 

[Loneheart]

3 hours ago, Pottering About said:

Hi 4paws. Can I firstly say you seem to be attracting quite a few comments here which, if we are charitable, do not IMO offer any real help to you. Please do not let them drive you off this forum and I probably would not bother to respond to them.

I have followed your two strings of posts with interest but, unless I have missed it, I can not see an explanation as to why you felt the need to stay in such constant touch with your ex. Do you think that, if you are really honest with yourself, then you might understand the reasons why you lied to your husband and can offer a true, believable explanation to him. He may not like the answer but it could give you a way forward, particularly as he is looking for an answer about your behaviour and obviously has on going issues and/or insecurities about your ex. 

But, you have to be really honest with yourself as the only loser if you lie is you. You have already said that he is not controlling so you can’t use that as a reason and “I don’t know” doesn’t cut it. Nor does thinking that it was not inappropriate because you lied so you must have realised you were doing something wrong. If you “just wanted to stay friends”, why? What did the ex offer that your husband could not? You went to a lot of effort to keep contact going so it must have been an important reason. At least be honest with yourself!
 

As an aside, and excuse me if I have missed it, have you met up with your ex again because I have a suspicion that you have. It is just the way you write and half say things (never had a physical relationship (sex) after you and your now husband got together but says nothing about meeting etc). If I, as someone who only reads your posts, think that is a possibility then think what your husband must be running through his mind. I would suggest if you have met him and have not told your husband, that you get your coat!
 

For my part, the relationship with your male nurse does not seem such a problem, except for the fact you lied continuously. My wife had a close male work friend for a number of years where there was no sexual attraction but it did annoy me at times as I thought I was sometimes treated as second best, particularly for work related issues. I could cope in the main because of her openness with me but it still caused a few major rows along the way. Perhaps, if you can resolve why you lied about your ex, that may put your lying about the nurse into context.

 

Apologies if you have already covered the above points in previous posts but let’s bring this post back to you and not about your husband. I sincerely hope everything works out well for you

 

 

I havent seen my ex since 2015. If im not being honest with myself I dont know how to I guess. I don't feel like I'm lying to myself. I did at first and I was blind to my whole role in everything. I tried to justify alot but I dont anymore.

My husband still thinks I havent been trying to fix us. He said he is at a point that he just doesn't care anymore, but then he will talk about our future. Its very confusing to me and I dont know if he is still just saying things out of anger or if he really means it now.The way he is towards me has changed.

Im fighting with myself every single day about how can I get answers? I have an appointment coming up next week with a new therapist. I have already emailed her every detail I possibly could about the whole entire situation. It was 26 pages on my notepad on my phone. Its alot and im not pointing fingers at anyone but myself.

[Pottering About]

Is the real problem to do with your lying? If so, have you explored/googled potential undetlying conditions related to lying?

Edited November 15, 2020 by Pottering About
2nd thoughts

[Loneheart]

8 hours ago, Pottering About said:

Is the real problem to do with your lying? If so, have you explored/googled potential undetlying conditions related to lying?

I would say alot of my lying has been out of fear. I automatically assumed I knew how my husband would react to things making everything worse than it needed to be. I dont lie about everything so I dont think I have a underlying issue. But im not a professional.