Are more women content on remaining unattached?

[Emilie Jolie]

8 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

But going back to the whole online thing, there is something particularly disturbing with online dating when women are only their for an ego boost, with no intent on meeting in person.

 

I've never done OLD so can't comment on that part, but the friends I know who've used didn't do it for an ego boost. They genuinely do want to meet a guy.

And honestly, often the experience of a woman online isn't that great. Even on anonymous message boards, there will be predatory or socially ill-equipped men who think it fair game to try and chat you up if you've made the mistake of revealing too much about yourself (yes, personal experience), and take it a bit too far. Women are easy prey on any platform.

That may explain why some of them have their guard up.

[CaliforniaGirl]

8 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I think some women do treat OLD as a type of online game, but I guess a lot of women are not finding guys online that they want to meet.
They get into initial "conversations" and find something is lacking or there are dealbeakers or the attraction fades and when it comes to meeting IRL they pass or flake or ghost.

See now...talking (getting "attention") and *then* realizing something is missing isn't a game. That seems to be what BlindSided is worried about...that women are just "looking for attention." Some are; people do that. Always have. Both sexes. But talking to someone and then not going on a date doesn't mean anyone was playing a game. That IS dating, 21st century style: this way nobody wastes the night out.

As for flaking, that's unacceptable, you don't let someone else show up, then you don't show up. That's different...that's mean. I don't know any women who do that, though. I'm sure it happens, I hear about it but I have to doubt it's the overwhelming majority of women or anything.

Ghosting: both men and women do this. Entirely, or the slow fade. I remember that from the old days too. Sometimes you just avoided confrontation, especially if the person was nice and you didn't want to hurt his feelings, and instead just kind of tried to steer him toward neutral conversations (if he was calling) and just not setting up that date.

[basil67]

15 hours ago, enigma32 said:

Ladies here in the USA got a pretty good game going right now. They have a great support system with other women whereas men kinda stay to ourselves a lot more. If they want male company, a date, sex, ego boosts, or what have you, all of that is either a social media post or dating profile away. So, yeah. I think women do a lot better these days when they remain unattached, at least compared with men. 

Traditionally, women have always had strong social networks.  I believe it's the connection with other women, the sharing of highs and lows and support which keeps our suicide rate lower than that of men - we 'workshop' our problems with our mates.   It's also that same connection to friends, combined with financial independence, which sees some older women not bothering with dating or relationship anymore.  

[basil67]

12 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

she always liked being the center of attention. On FB she's popular for no reason.

She has no career, works at a Vitamin store, and nothing more. Very attractive and gregarious. 

She is popular on FB for a very good reason.  It's because she's gregarious.  Gregarious people naturally draw others in.  She's fun, upbeat, can hold a conversation and is likely interested in other people.  What's not to like?   

I'm not sure why you commented on her career in context with her popularity. Her career has nothing to do with how others may enjoy her company.

 

[jspice]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

She is popular on FB for a very good reason.  It's because she's gregarious.  Gregarious people naturally draw others in.  She's fun, upbeat, can hold a conversation and is likely interested in other people.  What's not to like?   

I'm not sure why you commented on her career in context with her popularity. Her career has nothing to do with how others may enjoy her company.

 

Oh @basil67, don’t you know it’s because she should be grateful that someone (anyone) is interested in a lowly, nothing-to-offer vitamin salesperson. She NEEDS a husband. 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

6 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

 I think it’s just that now more than ever women( in most places) women  have a lot more reason/ability to remain unattached or be picky. Jmo 

Yes, ability.  You're absolutely right.  And why not do it if you're content being alone rather than bring someone else and their issues/dysfunction into your life?  

[CaliforniaGirl]

28 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

I do think that the support system helps you ladies out tremendously when it comes to suicide rates and dealing with being single. In our defense though, no one really cares when men have problems, which is part of the reason men just keep our mouths shut. I also think that since it is much easier for a woman to get some company when she is single, that there is no big rush to find a relationship, especially after she's got a few failed relationships in her past. 

So? Do you need to cry in order to have friends? If you want a network you have to work at it. You need to be a friend and maintain friends. That's what women do or else nobody gives a s h*t either. With women, if we don't bother to connect with our friends, and when we finally do we just want to spill and then wander off again, we don't keep our friends. Friendships aren't a harem or something. They're work.

[basil67]

20 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

In our defense though, no one really cares when men have problems, which is part of the reason men just keep our mouths shut. 

When you've shared your problems with mates or within a supportive relationship, do they shut you down?   Or do you not share in the first place because it's not a done thing?     Would you care if a mate came to you with troubles?   I think you would.   And I suspect they'd also listen to you.  

When I look at hubby and his friendships, he's got one mate who shares about his trials in life and hubby is always there for him over a couple of beers.   But the rest of the guys in his life don't share.  Sure, they might grumble about their boss, but they don't talk 'feelings'.   I also see men giving advice here about how men should be alpha and strong and deal with issues themselves.   Until men change the dialogue about sharing, men will learn to not share.  

Have you ever noticed how when women here want their boyfriends/husbands to open up, many say that men don't do that.  Many say that if you want a deep and meaningful, that's what your girlfriends are for.  I've said it myself, based on my personal experience.   How would you answer this question from a female poster?  

[basil67]

1 minute ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

So? Do you need to cry in order to have friends? If you want a network you have to work at it. You need to be a friend and maintain friends. That's what women do or else nobody gives a s h*t either. With women, if we don't bother to connect with our friends, and when we finally do we just want to spill and then wander off again, we don't keep our friends. Friendships aren't a harem or something. They're work.

Yes - this!   If we don't work at maintaining a friendship and reaching out and caring, nobody would give toss about our problems either.   This stuff doesn't happen by default.

Edited June 20, 2020 by basil67

[Woggle]

11 minutes ago, basil67 said:

When you've shared your problems with mates or within a supportive relationship, do they shut you down?   Or do you not share in the first place because it's not a done thing?     Would you care if a mate came to you with troubles?   I think you would.   And I suspect they'd also listen to you.  

When I look at hubby and his friendships, he's got one mate who shares about his trials in life and hubby is always there for him over a couple of beers.   But the rest of the guys in his life don't share.  Sure, they might grumble about their boss, but they don't talk 'feelings'.   I also see men giving advice here about how men should be alpha and strong and deal with issues themselves.   Until men change the dialogue about sharing, men will learn to not share.  

Have you ever noticed how when women here want their boyfriends/husbands to open up, many say that men don't do that.  Many say that if you want a deep and meaningful, that's what your girlfriends are for.  I've said it myself, based on my personal experience.   How would you answer this question from a female poster?  

Because often when men do open up with women it backfires on us. Honestly offline my wife is pretty much the only woman I ever felt that I could open up with and let inside and she wouldn't lose attraction for me or somehow use it against me. I open to make friends as well but in actuality there are few people in life male or female I really let inside.

[CaliforniaGirl]

13 minutes ago, Woggle said:

Because often when men do open up with women it backfires on us. Honestly offline my wife is pretty much the only woman I ever felt that I could open up with and let inside and she wouldn't lose attraction for me or somehow use it against me. I open to make friends as well but in actuality there are few people in life male or female I really let inside.

But when men don't open up in relationships it can backfire too. If things can go sideways and the default is to not bother, pure losing as many women that way as the other and may well be dooming a marriage (not you-you, people in general).

And again, as far as make friends...you can't just hang out with them? Laugh? Remember what fun is? Those are all antidepressants too.

Edited June 20, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[basil67]

14 minutes ago, Woggle said:

Because often when men do open up with women it backfires on us. Honestly offline my wife is pretty much the only woman I ever felt that I could open up with and let inside and she wouldn't lose attraction for me or somehow use it against me. I open to make friends as well but in actuality there are few people in life male or female I really let inside.

The 'opening up' becomes a problem (for either gender) when one leans too heavily on those around.  Yes, women are there for each other, but there comes a stage when a therapist is needed.   One of my friends leans on me, but if she didn't have a therapist and multiple friends, I couldn't take on all of her issues alone.   Another friend was reaching out daily when her marriage was in trouble.  Problem is, she'd been doing this for far too long and I had to distance myself for my own sanity.

So yes, please share.  But recognise when it's gotten to the point where it's more than a friend or partner can reasonably handle.

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

Men can have deep, meaningful conversations, but crying about our feelings and problems just (generally speaking) isn't our thing. 

But look what you've just described.  People DO care about men's feelings ❤️

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

I'm not saying that I think men should go around crying about their problems to other men. In fact, the idea of me even doing that makes me laugh. That's just the consequence of always trying to be strong...some people break. 

For example. When I went through my last breakup, it sucked. The day I found everything out was a gym day. So, like always, I met my buddy at the gym and lifted some weights. I was just a lot less friendly and chatty that day. The very next day, my buddy said that based on my mood before, he wasn't sure if I was gonna drive off a bridge or something. I told him that was just wishful thinking because he is jealous I can bench press more than he can. That's how we deal with our problems. Lift some weights, drink a beer, and make fun of each other. 

Men can have deep, meaningful conversations, but crying about our feelings and problems just (generally speaking) isn't our thing. 

So what you're saying is, actually, somebody does care, and yes, men can have a network too. If they want to make the effort.

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, basil67 said:

The 'opening up' becomes a problem (for either gender) when one leans too heavily on those around.  Yes, women are there for each other, but there comes a stage when a therapist is needed.   One of my friends leans on me, but if she didn't have a therapist and multiple friends, I couldn't take on all of her issues alone.   Another friend was reaching out daily when her marriage was in trouble.  Problem is, she'd been doing this for far too long and I had to distance myself for my own sanity.

So yes, please share.  But recognise when it's gotten to the point where it's more than a friend or partner can reasonably handle.

So much this. Everybody has had that one friend who was just always spilling and always needy and when you saw her coming you knew it was going to be a whinefest. That's the friend that one brave friend gives the come to Jesus talk and as a response she cries (again) and stomps off, or doesn't listen and then gradually everybody else just dumps her, because it's one-sided and nobody can take it anymore.

A support system doesn't mean we're all constantly hugging and crying. It means, as most of us learned in kindergarten/primary school: if you want a friend, be a friend. And that's it.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Just now, enigma32 said:

 

Some people care, sure. Our support systems are generally much, much smaller though. Take this thread for example. I post on here about men not having as much of a support system, and instead of actual support, people just wanna argue. Precisely why men often just keep it to ourselves. 

Women argue with women too and women get it pretty darned hard on here at times, we've all seen it. Bottom line remains the same. It's an effort to develop and maintain friendships. People either want to make the effort of they don't.

Re: some people care...not everybody or most people, I guess? Yeah, same with women. 🤷 Isn't that life?

[Fresh_Start]

9 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

So? Do you need to cry in order to have friends? If you want a network you have to work at it. You need to be a friend and maintain friends. That's what women do or else nobody gives a s h*t either. With women, if we don't bother to connect with our friends, and when we finally do we just want to spill and then wander off again, we don't keep our friends. Friendships aren't a harem or something. They're work.

 

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

When you've shared your problems with mates or within a supportive relationship, do they shut you down?   Or do you not share in the first place because it's not a done thing?     Would you care if a mate came to you with troubles?   I think you would.   And I suspect they'd also listen to you.  

When I look at hubby and his friendships, he's got one mate who shares about his trials in life and hubby is always there for him over a couple of beers.   But the rest of the guys in his life don't share.  Sure, they might grumble about their boss, but they don't talk 'feelings'.   I also see men giving advice here about how men should be alpha and strong and deal with issues themselves.   Until men change the dialogue about sharing, men will learn to not share.  

Have you ever noticed how when women here want their boyfriends/husbands to open up, many say that men don't do that.  Many say that if you want a deep and meaningful, that's what your girlfriends are for.  I've said it myself, based on my personal experience.   How would you answer this question from a female poster?  

It's a common misconception that "keeping quiet" = strength or toughness and that doing so in any way equates to being an "alpha male".  The opposite is the actual truth.  It takes far more strength, mentally and otherwise, to be open and honest about what you're feeling -- or how -- instead of stifling emotions or ignoring pain.  Anybody can keep to themselves and not say a word.  That takes no effort or courage and it can cause breakdowns in both communication and trust. 

Unfortunately, there are women who inadvertently perpetuate this problem because they've been raised with a faulty belief system or feel that their husband/boyfriend should act just like their father whom they perceived to be "mentally strong" because he hid his feelings from the rest of his family, not realizing that all it really did was make him emotionally unavailable.  It might also be what they've become accustomed to so that when a guy does open up about something that's bothering him, it makes his partner feel uncomfortable, who in turn doesn't respond favorably to him, and then he's reluctant to ever test those waters again only to have it blow up into some huge, unnecessary fight later on when the so-called "alpha male" has kept the lid on a boiling pot for too long.  

I quoted you both because you're both right.  It's unfortunate that too many men feel this way.  Most of my closest friends are female and I can tell them anything.  They're great listeners, compassionate, and sometimes even feel flattered that I come to them for advice on something or to talk about something that's bothering me.  "I wish my husband would do that!" is a line I hear all the time.  I do the same thing for them in return, although they typically seek out their female friends for "female problems" and most of the time only seek me out when it comes to advice on dealing with a husband or boyfriend.  The bottom line is though, these friendships require mutual effort to be maintained.  You can't just have one person doing all of the heavy lifting and making all of the effort or the friendship will fail.  Friendships are a two way street and if you have a friend who isn't there for you when you need them, they weren't your friend to begin with.    

[basil67]

38 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

Take this thread for example. I post on here about men not having as much of a support system, and instead of actual support, people justw wanna argue. Precisely why men often just keep it to ourselves. 

This argument wouldn't wash within a women's support network.  Let's say that one of my friends may be having trouble.  I don't just give sympathy and a pat on the back if I think she's got the wrong end of the stick.  Rather, I will probe further and suggest that perhaps there are other perspectives.  Or that her perception is not entirely accurate.   I did this with you and believe I did it respectfully.  Granted, it's hard to do so without free flowing, face to face conversation.   And you came out realising that men do care about each other.  Which is a great thing.

If a woman complained that her friends were being argumentative by suggesting different view points, or said that because of this she keeps problems to herself, she wouldn't have friends for long.

Edit to add: if a woman said that nobody cares about her, everyone would immediately jump on board, say "nooooo" and reassure her of all the people who do care.

Edited June 20, 2020 by basil67

[QuietRiot]

18 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Sometimes there is no easy way to say no, it may be at the time asked a woman is afraid to say no so says yes...then she "flakes."    Now of course their are people who are just flakes or fickle, but I don't presume the negative or judge harshly just because a woman flakes.  Now I may not reach out to her again...but that is because I take a flake to mean "no" or "changed my mind"...fair enough and can empathize why that may be their way of saying that.

I am wondering why would a woman engage in a man after all this time, if the answer was a "No" when they first started talking?  This whole "getting to know you, via incessant texting back and forth without ever meeting, before getting to know you" is absurd.  I've even had some women agree...if they are constantly texting without ever meeting, they are just doing it for the attention.

[basil67]

15 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

If they are constantly texting without ever meeting, they are just doing it for the attention.

If that's the case, then both parties are doing it for the attention.   One can't constantly text without meeting unless there's someone on the other end doing the same.

[QuietRiot]

20 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If that's the case, then both parties are doing it for the attention.   One can't constantly text without meeting unless there's someone on the other end doing the same.

But one ends it when they get a sense of what's happening, obviously. I cut ties with a woman if she's hem hawing about meeting. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by QuietRiot

[basil67]

And women will cut ties with a man when he's not making a move to meet.  Time wasting is not a gendered thing.

[QuietRiot]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

And women will cut ties with a man when he's not making a move to meet.  Time wasting is not a gendered thing.

Yeah, but women have a tendency to linger online aimlessly than men, who are actually willing to meet. Like I said, there are countless women that do online dating for the attention and ego boost. Time wasters. It's very rare that men do this.  Usually it's the married ones. (Complaints I hear more often from women than men).

[Miss Spider]

8 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Yeah, but women have a tendency to linger online aimlessly than men, who are actually willing to meet. Like I said, there are countless women that do online dating for the attention and ego boost. Time wasters. It's very rare that men do this.  Usually it's the married ones. (Complaints I hear more often from women than men).

If you read the boards enough you’ll see that men do the same thing !

 

also : how you know they aren’t meeting in general vs just not meeting you, no offense 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Cookiesandough

[elaine567]

8 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Yeah, but women have a tendency to linger online aimlessly than men, who are actually willing to meet.

"aimlessly" is your interpretation.
Taking time to assess and decide is probably more accurate.