Love Bombing and Push Pull - Update, How do I Cope?

[miranda561]

8 hours ago, SS2855 said:

Thank you! I was in therapy but need to go back and dig deep as to why I am accepting the crumbs. I do know I have a lot to offer . I hope this doesn’t sound smug but I’m what many have said am “very attractive“, kind (mostly right? , funny, successful, smart (with most things!), etc. so I feel confident that I’m a good catch if you will. I know in my heart there is better for me. My spouse is kind but hasn’t worked in years because it simply “stresses him out” and does mostly nothing around the house. I can’t help but feel that the two men in my life- in very different ways- are soaking everything they can possibly get from me. The resentment is building and I’m hoping it’s pushing me closer to be done with them both. The MM I care for very much as even a friend but a loving relationship? I can’t keep doing this forever. I want something whole that only wants me too.

Just leave the guy. Its simple.

Find someone who isnt attached and hasn't got baggage.

He won't give you what you want. Hes living the dream, having two women pander to his wants and needs.

Edited May 10, 2020 by miranda561

[HadMeOverABarrel]

12 hours ago, SS2855 said:

Thank you! I was in therapy but need to go back and dig deep as to why I am accepting the crumbs. I do know I have a lot to offer . I hope this doesn’t sound smug but I’m what many have said am “very attractive“, kind (mostly right? , funny, successful, smart (with most things!), etc. so I feel confident that I’m a good catch if you will. I know in my heart there is better for me. My spouse is kind but hasn’t worked in years because it simply “stresses him out” and does mostly nothing around the house. I can’t help but feel that the two men in my life- in very different ways- are soaking everything they can possibly get from me. The resentment is building and I’m hoping it’s pushing me closer to be done with them both. The MM I care for very much as even a friend but a loving relationship? I can’t keep doing this forever. I want something whole that only wants me too.

Check within yourself and with your therapist if you were conditioned by your childhood caregiver to give more than you received, or were loved only when you 'performed well' rather than for just being who you are. 

[SS2855]

17 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Check within yourself and with your therapist if you were conditioned by your childhood caregiver to give more than you received, or were loved only when you 'performed well' rather than for just being who you are. 

The strange thing is I was raised by very loving and attentive parents. I was bullied in high school so sometimes I think that has to do with the low self esteem. Not sure. Anyhow great advice and of course I know the answers I just need to act.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

1 hour ago, SS2855 said:

The strange thing is I was raised by very loving and attentive parents. I was bullied in high school so sometimes I think that has to do with the low self esteem. Not sure. Anyhow great advice and of course I know the answers I just need to act.

Interesting...perhaps you caught the conversation here between me and another LS poster two weeks ago about a book we purchased at the same time and were discussing it. Conversation was since deleted by mods. My point is: the author speaks of his own experience growing up in an idyllic family/childhood. It's only until he gets deep into therapy that he realizes it wasn't so ideal afterall. Ex. He realized his mother had treated him more like a confidante than a son, etc. He realized from therapy how that set him up to sabotage his romantic relationships as an adult. (Book title = The Truth)

I share a similar story in that my childhood may have been the envy of many kids: home swimming pool, themed birthday pool parties, recreation boating on the weekend, regular trips to Disneyworld, plenty of neat toys, family traditions, vacations, flying on recreational aircraft, meeting people from around the world because of dad's work, riding bikes to the beach, holiday traditions...yadda yadda.

It took my relationship with xMM to realize and understand the not-so-good aspects of my childhood shaped me and my adult relationships, and even how it created some limitations in my otherwise high-achieving world. 

You may not be able to see it now, but if you work hard in therapy, you'll unearth the truths at the root of howyou landed in your current relationships. Be brave, you're worth it!

Edited May 11, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[SS2855]

1 hour ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Interesting...perhaps you caught the conversation here between me and another LS poster two weeks ago about a book we purchased at the same time and were discussing it. Conversation was since deleted by mods. My point is: the author speaks of his own experience growing up in an idyllic family/childhood. It's only until he gets deep into therapy that he realizes it wasn't so ideal afterall. Ex. He realized his mother had treated him more like a confidante than a son, etc. He realized from therapy how that set him up to sabotage his romantic relationships as an adult. (Book title = The Truth)

I share a similar story in that my childhood may have been the envy of many kids: home swimming pool, themed birthday pool parties, recreation boating on the weekend, regular trips to Disneyworld, plenty of neat toys, family traditions, vacations, flying on recreational aircraft, meeting people from around the world because of dad's work, riding bikes to the beach, holiday traditions...yadda yadda.

It took my relationship with xMM to realize and understand the not-so-good aspects of my childhood shaped me and my adult relationships, and even how it created some limitations in my otherwise high-achieving world. 

You may not be able to see it now, but if you work hard in therapy, you'll unearth the truths at the root of howyou landed in your current relationships. Be brave, you're worth it!

I think you may be spot on. My last therapist we scratched the surface and the convo started with me telling her about my pretty perfect upbringing and childhood and toward the end of the conversation I was in tears reliving some of not great moments. Nothing significant or what I would call classically “traumatizing” but enough for me to realize at the end of the discussion that it wasn’t as great as I always thought it was.
Today is especially hard. MM has taken off with his family to their vacation home (rightfully so) for at least the next month since were all in a bit of a holding pattern with the quarantine. I’d have done the same too so don’t blame him but of course it’s bothering me much more than I thought and I find myself resenting him escaping and seemingly enjoying it there and my sort of faltering inside here feeling sorry for myself. I’m having a hard time pretending to him that everything is ok like I always do. It bothers me and more so that I don’t think he realizes it does or might even be too clueless to wonder why it would. Here I am trying to hold it together like “hey I hope ur enjoying the great weather there and getting nice and tanned!” when inside I want to scream at his casualness of it all ie; “i miss u and let’s talk tomorrow and when I get back can’t wait to see you blah blah...” I think he’s going to call me tomorrow and I don’t want him to because I feel like I won’t be able to act happy for him. And if I let him Know how I’m feeling I risk him pulling away- and I truly think he would because yes he’s a cheater but I do feel in my heart he knows he can’t give me it all but doesn’t want to let me go. Again I’m still married so likely that makes it maybe ok for now in his head. He wrote me a dear note before he left- how much I mean to him and how can he be so lucky to have me. I wanted to say “good question!”. How I overfill all that’s missing in his life (in other words thanks for filling the voids in my marriage and wanting nothing in return).

[DKT3]

A common misjudgment by so many women here is something is missing in MM marriage.  More often then not the MW/OW is extra. Men rarely look to replace their wives,  especially with one cheating with them. As hypocritical as that sounds.

Here is the thing,  you are in the exact situation you deserve because you've accepted it. You give half and expect full in return.  To get whole you have to give whole. You take no responsibility for your situation,  instead you scream woe is me at the top of your lungs and act as if it's all happening to you.  Attractiveness is a total package not just the wrapper. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by DKT3

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Since when is it required that you pretend all is peachy to your own detriment? That's a clue of something you learned somewhere along the way to neglect your own needs to make someone else happy.

Consider these points:

1) Tell MM the truth about how you feel. He may very well pull away, and if he does, doesn't that tell you some truth about him? Wouldn't that tell you how concerned (or not) he truly is for your well-being in all this? If he's not very concerned, is that really someone you want to hitch you're wagon to? Wouldn't like be like your current husband...MM would just be Husband 2.0 version of same crap you're already tolerating to your own detriment?

2) By not telling MM your truth, not only are you being inauthentic to yourself (bad enough for your mental health), but you are also being inauthentic with him. Then you have to confess to yourself that you are building something with him based on being some one who isn't the true you. 

"The sickness is in the secrets"--cliche but true. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[HadMeOverABarrel]

20 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

A common misjudgment by so many women here is something is missing in MM marriage.  More often then not the MW/OW is extra. Men rarely look to replace their wives,  especially with one cheating with them. As hypocritical as that sounds.

Here is the thing,  you are in the exact situation you deserve because you've accepted it. You give half and expect full in return.  To get whole you have to give whole. You take no responsibility for your situation,  instead you scream woe is me at the top of your lungs and act as if it's all happening to you.  Attractiveness is a total package not just the wrapper. 

DKT3, I just wrote a full on analysis in response to your post that I was rather proud of. Somehow it did not post. Instead of rewriting it right now, I'm just going to ask you to research "shame core."

[DKT3]

7 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

DKT3, I just wrote a full on analysis in response to your post that I was rather proud of. Somehow it did not post. Instead of rewriting it right now, I'm just going to ask you to research "shame core."

Dont need to, I know exactly what that is....he is the thing. Most WS are more likely on the narcissist spectrum then struggling with shame core. OP actually seems to have a pretty high opinion of herself. 

Just because you fall off your bike doesn't mean you broke your arm. Just because there is a label it doesn't mean it fits someone. 

[SS2855]

3 hours ago, DKT3 said:

A common misjudgment by so many women here is something is missing in MM marriage.  More often then not the MW/OW is extra. Men rarely look to replace their wives,  especially with one cheating with them. As hypocritical as that sounds.

Here is the thing,  you are in the exact situation you deserve because you've accepted it. You give half and expect full in return.  To get whole you have to give whole. You take no responsibility for your situation,  instead you scream woe is me at the top of your lungs and act as if it's all happening to you.  Attractiveness is a total package not just the wrapper. 

I agree you make a point. I know nothing is happening to me out of my control that is why I’m not railing on MM. He’s never promised me anything or has lead me to believe there is a future that includes more. My entire rant is an internal battle I’m trying to figure out and be brave enough to change because I know I’m creating the chaos that’s happening to me. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by SS2855

[SS2855]

3 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Since when is it required that you pretend all is peachy to your own detriment? That's a clue of something you learned somewhere along the way to neglect your own needs to make someone else happy.

Consider these points:

1) Tell MM the truth about how you feel. He may very well pull away, and if he does, doesn't that tell you some truth about him? Wouldn't that tell you how concerned (or not) he truly is for your well-being in all this? If he's not very concerned, is that really someone you want to hitch you're wagon to? Wouldn't like be like your current husband...MM would just be Husband 2.0 version of same crap you're already tolerating to your own detriment?

2) By not telling MM your truth, not only are you being inauthentic to yourself (bad enough for your mental health), but you are also being inauthentic with him. Then you have to confess to yourself that you are building something with him based on being some one who isn't the true you. 

"The sickness is in the secrets"--cliche but true. 

I know I need to be honest you are right. I also looked up core shame. Interesting I’ve never heard of but not sure that’s it. I guess do you think there is always a deep seeded reason other than maybe loneliness and selfishness that a woman would end up in an affair? Be a willing participant to be the side chick and continue something with someone unavailable potentially hurting so many in the way, knowing she is putting her self so low on the priority list? I’m sure you’ve read or at least are familiar with Esther Perel’s the State of Affairs? I’ve listened to the audio countless times. It’s been the most poignant read I’ve come across on all of this.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

"...Do you think there is always a deep seeded reason other than maybe loneliness and selfishness that a woman would end up in an affair?"

Yes I do. I can see similar patterns in your relationships with MM and your husband in that you give more than you get. Seems codependent tendencies, but explore with your therapist (who's a mental health professional while I'm only drawing on my own experiences).

"I’m sure you’ve read or at least are familiar with Esther Perel’s the State of Affairs?" I haven't heard of this but will look it up. ☺

[HadMeOverABarrel]

9 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Dont need to, I know exactly what that is....he is the thing. Most WS are more likely on the narcissist spectrum then struggling with shame core. OP actually seems to have a pretty high opinion of herself. 

Just because you fall off your bike doesn't mean you broke your arm. Just because there is a label it doesn't mean it fits someone. 

Narcs become narcs because of their own shame core. Unable to deal with the pain and truth of who they are deep inside, they create a false self which most be nurtured by constant narc supply (lest it cave in on itself).

I learned from my therapy (all subconcious processes) that people engage in defense mechanisms to avoid dealing with their own pain, very often is deeply rooted in shame (of not having/being/dping enough). My therapist discussed 5 defense mechanisms that progress in a pattern after trauma (traumas inflict shame). The first is denial. Projection comes later. These defenses result from traumas being internalized rather than worked through and processed.

Persons who inflict shame onto others are often projecting their own shame outward onto others. It's a deprivation of personal power for the receiver of judgment by the inflicter, who in turn gets to feel self-righteous in superiority (while ignoring the true root of the trigger from the other person, which triggered the inflicter's shame).

So when a person criticizes or chastises another for some action in which they feel morally superior, they are in effect covering up their own wounds and making the criticized the carrier of responsibility for them. As my therapist likes to say, "If you spot it, you got it!"

Meanwhile, piling more shame onto the criticized person (such as OM/OW) only pushes them further away from recovery. That's because the reason they land in affairs is because of their own unresolved shame. Shame core is the basis of all addictions, affairs, and unhealthy relationship patterns. It's very deep stuff, so requires careful examination before dismissing.

I hope this is helpful to you, DKT3, because what I observe in your responses (and in other BS's) is your unresolved anger at having been a BS. Beneath that anger is hurt, and below that hurt is shame with questions like "Wasn't I good enough to not be cheated on? Wasn't I worth more than that?" Your own questions will relate back to questions of worth that arose from your I childhood when you were developing your idea of your place in this world. If my comments trigger you, make you feel angry or degensive, that's a clue there's something within that needs to be confronted and healed. 

[DKT3]

You are incorrect,  narcissist are born, it is genetic and environment only plays a small part.

My issues are resolved,  its people who look for external reasons why they do the things that do who have unresolved issues. 

I have no childhood issues,  my childhood was amazing.  My mom was great, a bit domineering but very loving. My father is very stoic but loving . 

True my wife cheated,  we divorced and I never blamed myself in a I'm not good enough way. I understood from the start it's her issue.  

[HadMeOverABarrel]

35 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

You are incorrect,  narcissist are born, it is genetic and environment only plays a small part.

My issues are resolved,  its people who look for external reasons why they do the things that do who have unresolved issues. 

I have no childhood issues,  my childhood was amazing.  My mom was great, a bit domineering but very loving. My father is very stoic but loving . 

True my wife cheated,  we divorced and I never blamed myself in a I'm not good enough way. I understood from the start it's her issue.  

Okee dokee. If you say so. I am not incorrect. I'm pretty much an expert at this now (my own family is a great case study), but if it makes you feel better to say I'm wrong I won't internalize it. You are judmental and angry, both indicate unresolved business. Denial is a defense mechanism which will help you avoid that truth. You can choose to work on it, or you can spout venom to others while avoiding it. 

Narcissism is generational because of learned behavior patterns, not chemical imbalances (so a born narcissist? No.). Scientific studies on brain mapping  proved: Psychopaths are born; narcissists are not. Some narcissists are psychopaths, but not all. Narcissism is on a spectrum and we all possess it to some degree.

My answers are based on science I've researched. If you refute, please cite your scientific sources. Thanks. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[SS2855]

9 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Okee dokee. If you say so. I am not incorrect. I'm pretty much an expert at this now (my own family is a great case study), but if it makes you feel better to say I'm wrong I won't internalize it. You are judmental and angry, both indicate unresolved business. Denial is a defense mechanism which will help you avoid that truth. You can choose to work on it, or you can spout venom to others while avoiding it. 

Narcissism is generational because of learned behavior patterns, not chemical imbalances (so a born narcissist? No.). Scientific studies on brain mapping  proved: Psychopaths are born; narcissists are not. Some narcissists are psychopaths, but not all. Narcissism is on a spectrum and we all possess it to some degree.

My answers are based on science I've researched. If you refute, please cite your scientific sources. Thanks. 

@HadMeOverABarrel you are simply amazing. Your intellect is powerful and I wish I could articulate this the way you have. Clearly you have done a lot of self discovery. I was trying to give @DKT3 the benefit of the doubt but I realize every response he’s made has been angry and not very helpful. Knowing the back story it all makes sense. @DKT3 there is significant damage that occurs with infidelity all around. Not just for the WS but BS. I know people like me are the enemy it often times takes two. And while infidelity is a terrible infraction to a marriage there are also many other ways to break vows. While my in-fracture is shameful I see things in my spouse that while faithful as far as I know he has also not lived up to the vows he made to me. It’s not tit for tat I speak of this but recognizing nothing is as simple as it seems. @HadMeOverABarrel please do check out State of Affairs or even just Esther Perels Ted Talk. It’s fascinating. Thank you again for your infinite wisdom.

[DKT3]

Haha, ok. You are still incorrect. I will say this a leave it because you've veered her thread off course by being upset with my post then attempting to personally attack me.

Children as young as 4 have been diagnosed as narcissists,  so how much environmental influence can they have had.

 

 

[carhill]

OP, I skimmed, noted some high points and my short answer is continue to explore the psychological part, IMO focus the therapist on avenues and tools to accept the real for what it is and make choices with confidence. If you choose to continue with MM, accept the moments for what they are and without expectation. It's OK to feel desire, longing, love, whatever you feel, embrace it, feel it and let the emotions go. Don't deny them or restrain them, rather accept them. I've found this leaves one open to other possibilities and emotions and other human interactions and loves and romances. It's OK to love this guy, it's also OK to meet and love others in life and relegate this man, or anyone, to the past if that's how it works out. I'm pretty far down the road of life and have had many diverse loves, some wonderful, some dramatic, and they form the fabric of a long life. They don't rule it. Today, now, the real of the moment, is where I live. The past is gone and tomorrow is unknown. Good fortunes in your journey wherever it takes you.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

OP, thank you for your kind words. I've worked a lot, but still a bit to go. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now for my full recovery from all traumas in my life and I'm pretty excited about it! It's going to be amazing for my energy to be free of rumination and dysfunctional patterns, instead redirected towards achieving all I want from life. I hope you do the same for yourself. If so, you'll be in a small percentage of total population who were brave enough to delve into the very scary inner work. I think you're off to a good start.

I thank you for your thread, as it has provided me an opportunity to voice some of what I have learned so far.  By reading it back, I was able to see, and feel proud of, my own progress. I even read some of it to my therapist today. 😊 I've been counseling with her on and off for about 5 years besides lots of independent research. Today she emphasized the importance of focusing on self-care, which helps gain further insight into oneself. Hope that benefits you, too.

Again, remember you are worth the journey. Keep moving forward on the journey within!

Edited May 11, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[CaliforniaGirl]

Disclaimer: there's cynicism to follow.  So I could be really, really wrong or jaded or something.

Here's my take...

What immediately popped out was your mentioning how he then seems to be "holding back." I think you're romanticizing this and he's helping. He's not holding back from finally taking you in his arms and riding off into the sunset with you (and leaving his wife and I guess kids? Should have read more thoroughly - in tatters, never to really full trust any husband or dad again). That's the game, from what I understand. Make it seem mysterious and romantic and keep the side piece, whether a guy or a girl (women def. do this too), dangling all the time, thinking, "He's soooo close this time to just 'giving in' to his 'true feelings' for me, I can just feel it."

I mean, he never does...well, maybe with words once in a while, if he senses you're pulling away to leave his family alone and to start an actual life of your own where you can really be happy.

Yeah, I KNOW how cynical that sounds. I do...but there are a lot of posts on here about this sort of thing. And see the thing is...if he really loved you more than he loves her, if he really wanted you more than he wants his home life, if she really were awful and you really were like nobody he'd ever known before or whatever it is he whispers to you...

...then he wouldn't be there.

He'd be with you.

He's not.

Honey...just go.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

7 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Haha, ok. You are still incorrect. I will say this a leave it because you've veered her thread off course by being upset with my post then attempting to personally attack me.

Children as young as 4 have been diagnosed as narcissists,  so how much environmental influence can they have had.

 

 

Why are you running away? It's avoidance. When the tables turn inward on you, it's uncomfortable. And that's what you're trying to avoid altogether. You're trying to get a 'fix' by pointing out flaws of someone you perceive to be similar to one of the persons you blame for destroying your marriage, and thus your previously happy life (that was interrupted by your xWS affair).

I'll explain the 'fix':

All human behavior is driven by either 1) pleasure seeking, or 2) pain avoidance. Pain avoidance is the stronger of the two. Addictions, affairs, dysfunctional relationship patterns are all about pain avoidance. They are cyclical--feel pain> act out> pain is numbed temporarily> pain returns> REPEAT TO INFINITY. Guess what other behavior is pain avoidance?!? BLAMING AND SHAMING OTHERS! Yep, when we point the finger at someone else, we temporarily alleviate our own (often subconscious) inner turmoil. We tell ourselves "They are bad. I am good." What's really happening is a projection of our own inner shame onto them. You're not going to see it without a LOT of therapy and self-introspection.

DKT3, I'm really trying to give you a gift here even though you may not see it as such. All this blaming and shaming helps no-one (except yourself temporarily as you get your 'fix,' but even then you're really doing yourself a disservice just like anyone else who engages in any avoidance behavior). I hope you will reflect on this so you can enjoy a better quality of life (without your energy being consumed by anger). As I read our interaction to my therapist this afternoon, even she commented about how angry you are.

If you won't do it for yourself, do it for other people in your life. I think you have kids?? I guarantee, if you do this work, you'll see how you are blaming and shaming them, too, thereby undermining their own self-worth.

Even if you won't do any work at all, would you please stop blaming and shaming people here? People posting here, especially those who are raw and emotional, are vulnerable. They know something is not right within themselves. That's why they are here. Kicking someone when they are down does not help them be better. Rather, you're just discouraging their efforts to seek a better way, and encouraging them to dysfunctional behaviors (like affairs) they are trying to grow out of.

EDITED TO ADD: Stop running and face your fears. It's time. 

OP, I apologize if I thread-jacked.

Edited May 11, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[SS2855]

8 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Why are you running away? It's avoidance. When the tables turn inward on you, it's uncomfortable. And that's what you're trying to avoid altogether. You're trying to get a 'fix' by pointing out flaws of someone you perceive to be similar to one of the persons you blame for destroying your marriage, and thus your previously happy life (that was interrupted by your xWS affair).

I'll explain the 'fix':

All human behavior is driven by either 1) pleasure seeking, or 2) pain avoidance. Pain avoidance is the stronger of the two. Addictions, affairs, dysfunctional relationship patterns are all about pain avoidance. They are cyclical--feel pain> act out> pain is numbed temporarily> pain returns> REPEAT TO INFINITY. Guess what other behavior is pain avoidance?!? BLAMING AND SHAMING OTHERS! Yep, when we point the finger at someone else, we temporarily alleviate our own (often subconscious) inner turmoil. We tell ourselves "They are bad. I am good." What's really happening is a projection of our own inner shame onto them. You're not going to see it without a LOT of therapy and self-introspection.

DKT3, I'm really trying to give you a gift here even though you may not see it as such. All this blaming and shaming helps no-one (except yourself temporarily as you get your 'fix,' but even then you're really doing yourself a disservice just like anyone else who engages in any avoidance behavior). I hope you will reflect on this so you can enjoy a better quality of life (without your energy being consumed by anger). As I read our interaction to my therapist this afternoon, even she commented about how angry you are.

If you won't do it for yourself, do it for other people in your life. I think you have kids?? I guarantee, if you do this work, you'll see how you are blaming and shaming them, too, thereby undermining their own self-worth.

Even if you won't do any work at all, would you please stop blaming and shaming people here? People posting here, especially those who are raw and emotional, are vulnerable. They know something is not right within themselves. That's why they are here. Kicking someone when they are down does not help them be better. Rather, you're just discouraging their efforts to seek a better way, and encouraging them to dysfunctional behaviors (like affairs) they are trying to grow out of.

EDITED TO ADD: Stop running and face your fears. It's time. 

OP, I apologize if I thread-jacked.

I sensed the complete angst and anger from @DKT3 and knowing the little I know of psychology it was very clear some unresolved issues. I can only imagine if I were BS I’d also likely have a strong disdain for someone like me, but to your point @HadMeOverABarrel ppl like me, while I deserve the harsh reality, I came here exactly as a person that is clearly not ok with my situation and thus looking for somewhere to be honest with myself and the hope that those who may have been there can offer guidance and at the very least support. 

[SS2855]

8 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Why are you running away? It's avoidance. When the tables turn inward on you, it's uncomfortable. And that's what you're trying to avoid altogether. You're trying to get a 'fix' by pointing out flaws of someone you perceive to be similar to one of the persons you blame for destroying your marriage, and thus your previously happy life (that was interrupted by your xWS affair).

I'll explain the 'fix':

All human behavior is driven by either 1) pleasure seeking, or 2) pain avoidance. Pain avoidance is the stronger of the two. Addictions, affairs, dysfunctional relationship patterns are all about pain avoidance. They are cyclical--feel pain> act out> pain is numbed temporarily> pain returns> REPEAT TO INFINITY. Guess what other behavior is pain avoidance?!? BLAMING AND SHAMING OTHERS! Yep, when we point the finger at someone else, we temporarily alleviate our own (often subconscious) inner turmoil. We tell ourselves "They are bad. I am good." What's really happening is a projection of our own inner shame onto them. You're not going to see it without a LOT of therapy and self-introspection.

DKT3, I'm really trying to give you a gift here even though you may not see it as such. All this blaming and shaming helps no-one (except yourself temporarily as you get your 'fix,' but even then you're really doing yourself a disservice just like anyone else who engages in any avoidance behavior). I hope you will reflect on this so you can enjoy a better quality of life (without your energy being consumed by anger). As I read our interaction to my therapist this afternoon, even she commented about how angry you are.

If you won't do it for yourself, do it for other people in your life. I think you have kids?? I guarantee, if you do this work, you'll see how you are blaming and shaming them, too, thereby undermining their own self-worth.

Even if you won't do any work at all, would you please stop blaming and shaming people here? People posting here, especially those who are raw and emotional, are vulnerable. They know something is not right within themselves. That's why they are here. Kicking someone when they are down does not help them be better. Rather, you're just discouraging their efforts to seek a better way, and encouraging them to dysfunctional behaviors (like affairs) they are trying to grow out of.

EDITED TO ADD: Stop running and face your fears. It's time. 

OP, I apologize if I thread-jacked.

Truer words never spoken: “Addictions, affairs, dysfunctional relationship patterns are all about pain avoidance. They are cyclical--feel pain> act out> pain is numbed temporarily> pain returns> REPEAT TO INFINITY.” It’s quite a cycle and I find myself feeling this not by the day but by the MINUTE. Times where I’m so distraught and down, and then a simple loving text paragraph comes through and It’s like I just received an injection of my drug of choice that manages to “tide me over” until the insecurity and loneliness seep in, and there I am once again looking for my next hit. I know I’ve exhausted the topic. I’m hoping day by day as I try to dig deeper inside I will get the courage to walk away from both men and spend some time working on my self.

[DKT3]

11 minutes ago, SS2855 said:

I sensed the complete angst and anger from @DKT3 and knowing the little I know of psychology it was very clear some unresolved issues. I can only imagine if I were BS I’d also likely have a strong disdain for someone like me, but to your point @HadMeOverABarrel ppl like me, while I deserve the harsh reality, I came here exactly as a person that is clearly not ok with my situation and thus looking for somewhere to be honest with myself and the hope that those who may have been there can offer guidance and at the very least support. 

I have no anger, my wifes affair was over a decade ago,  we were divorced spent years apart started dating and remarried.  I've been through infidelity and we've come out stronger and healthier than ever. We got there by being honest. Raw unedited honesty. I've admitted and owned my part in our marriages derailment,  my wife owned and accepted her affair was separate from the issues in the marriage. 

I'm a stoic man, my emotions are controlled and I dont fall for posts like that. Her intentions are less then pure, i believe she was trying to get under my skin..it failed.

My posting is harsh,  but not intentionally cruel.  The only way through this is honest reflection and holding yourself accountable for ALL your actions.  Your husband could be horrible, your marriage too. Yet you chose this path. You choose an unavailable man and you yourself are an unavailable woman.  Anything that happens after that is on you. No matter what he say, promises  or does. 

I believe you will get through this. I've seen women years ahead of you yet so far behind.

[lostandconfused21]

Your story is so close to mine in almost every way...I feel like I could have written it. Him and I work very closely together as well and there is no chance of either of us getting another job. Sometimes I feel like there is no way to end this. My MM does the same...pulls back and I think okay it’s over...then he comes back strong. He has even said he knows it’s not fair but he doesn’t want me to be with anyone else. Thanks for sharing your story.