Herd Immunity Concert - WTF?

[d0nnivain]

Through a link on The Drudge Report I just read an article that there is a 3 day music festival this July at the Q&Z arena in Ringle Wisconsin. 

The organizers are promoting herd immunity but from their statements they clearly don't understand the concept.  They think it will decrease the spread.  

Not that I have heard of them or listen to the music but these are the bands advertising as playing:  Static-X, Nonpoint, Dope, Bobaflex, and Royal Bliss.  

I guess we know where the next Hot Spot is going to be.

Edited June 24, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Member request, removing political statement.

[carhill]

Quote

RINGLE, Wis. (WFRV) – A 3-day mini-fest, originally promoted as the “COVID Herd Immunity Fest,” is set to take place in North Central Wisconsin in July; it is likely the first music festival to be held in Wisconsin since the start of the coronavirus outbreak.

Organizers spoke briefly with WFRV Local 5, saying that attendance to the mini-fest will be limited to 2,500 people – about 20 percent of what the venue can accommodate to ensure “anyone has the choice to social distance.”

https://www.wearegreenbay.com/coronavirus/covid-herd-immunity-fest-changes-name-wisconsin-music-festival-still-on/

Looks like they renamed the festival and are limiting attendance to allow people to choose social distancing if they wish to attend. Of course, attendance is purely a choice, by now people understand the risks and dynamics of Covid-19 unless they've been cut off from the free flow of information. What they believe is their choice. The more we interact, the more we expose ourselves and the more potentially contract the virus and develop personal immunity. I'm in the at-risk age group and have continued life as normal personally. Living far from dense urban environments has helped, but that is a choice to, in one aspect, be socially distant. I would expect the choice to also impact my immunity since I'm rarely exposed to viruses in general. Life is a balancing act. If the music was of interest, I'd go.

[Angelle]

If they contract the virus, then they can pass it along to those around them who didn't make the choice to attend. 

[carhill]

Yes, humans have being doing that since the beginning of time. You did today if you had any contact with other humans, potentially. There's no way to prove you didn't. Covid-19 is one of billions of pathogens outside of us and within us. I learned how dirty we are back in the 60's reading Michael Crichton's book Andromeda Strain, and then later studying the science behind it.

[Ellener]

I don't see a problem with it so long as they self-quarantine 14 days afterwards, and someone collects reports of infections and informs everyone of potential exposure.

I think in the UK there was a plan to do potential exposure reporting en masse via cellphones, don't know if it went ahead.

[Ellener]

@d0nnivain this was from last month:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/virus-relief-concerts-hedge-fund-manager-who-nailed-the-recent-bottom-says-its-time-to-try-herd-immunity-2020-05-20

[Angelle]

1 hour ago, carhill said:

Yes, humans have being doing that since the beginning of time. You did today if you had any contact with other humans, potentially. There's no way to prove you didn't. Covid-19 is one of billions of pathogens outside of us and within us. I learned how dirty we are back in the 60's reading Michael Crichton's book Andromeda Strain, and then later studying the science behind it.

And that's why we're all supposed to be careful. I need no schooling on how this has happened since the beginning of time. I'm an adult. What I'm saying is that if they aren't careful around people who have no idea they attended, it isn't fair to them. If someone chooses to attend this concert, I'm not sure that I would trust them to do the right thing outside of it.

[carhill]

How many pandemics have you been through? I've been through four, spanning back to the 1950's. Seriously, the way this has gone is nuts, comparatively. Nuts. I stand by that and will take it to my grave. Been on the planet a long time, worked in a very dangerous industry for life. This BS is nothing new to any of us who've been around. Whacked out peer pressure is nothing new either. I've battled those cretins my whole life. Still alive, healthy as a horse, have always been. Full of bugs though, only human. Stay away!👍

[d0nnivain]

To the best of my knowledge other then maybe swine flu I have not been through any pandemics.  Given my personal experience which is admittedly anecdotal, with so many people around me having died, I'm scared.   

[basil67]

@carhill wow.  I'm in my 50's and don't remember anything with this type of death toll.   Perhaps because of where I live?  

[carhill]

It's easy to research and, relevant to music concerts, a huge one you may or may not remember occurred during one, Woodstock.

The operative difference is healthy people weren't subjected to draconian measures, businesses shut down, all sports curtailed, music concerts ended, on and on. That's never happened to my knowledge in the history of this country, the 1918 pandemic was likely the closest. It's easy to see what's published in the history books and one can make their own decisions. I've made mine. ...... Wisconsin in summer though, yikes, the bugs. BTDT.

[basil67]

I checked the Woodstock thing on Snopes.

What's True

The Woodstock music festival took place in August 1969. The H3N2 influenza pandemic lasted between the winter of 1968 and the early months of 1970.

What's False

The 1968 pandemic does not compare to the COVID-19 pandemic in terms of lethality. Also, Woodstock did not take place during one of the Pandemic's seasonal peaks, but in the summer of 1969 when there was practically no reported H3N2 flu activity in the United States.

I'm not buying that it compares to COVID19.  

[Angelle]

1 hour ago, carhill said:

How many pandemics have you been through? I've been through four, spanning back to the 1950's. Seriously, the way this has gone is nuts, comparatively. Nuts. I stand by that and will take it to my grave. Been on the planet a long time, worked in a very dangerous industry for life. This BS is nothing new to any of us who've been around. Whacked out peer pressure is nothing new either. I've battled those cretins my whole life. Still alive, healthy as a horse, have always been. Full of bugs though, only human. Stay away!👍

My dad turned 73 in April, and he's being careful. He doesn't wear a mask everywhere, but he asks people to move back, if they're too close. He's extremely careful when it comes to what he touches, especially since he delivers mail bags to post offices, and has to be around people to do that. He's careful for himself, and others. Sometimes he delivers next-day-air packages, so he has to be careful there, too. I've seen memes going around about take-out food and amazon packages being safe, which seems convenient to those who post them. It doesn't mean that precautions aren't being taken by everyone involved, in order to serve the general public.

[d0nnivain]

48 minutes ago, carhill said:

The operative difference is healthy people weren't subjected to draconian measures, businesses shut down, all sports curtailed, music concerts ended, on and on. That's never happened to my knowledge in the history of this country, the 1918 pandemic was likely the closest. 

The draconian measures as you call them were implemented not because people were getting sick but because they were dying & needing medical care.  NYC ended up not needed the field hospitals & the U.S.S. Comfort because of those measures.  I can't imagine how bad things would have gotten if NYC remained opened & we tried to cope with this virulent and more lethal pathogen.  Yes, tons of people get the flu but they don't die at least not at the rates this thing seemed to be killing people.  

Carhill, you know I respect you but if memory serves you are on the West Coast.  I promise if you lived on this coast, especially through March & April you would be singing a different song about the necessity of the measures designed to help everyone. 

[carhill]

We're talking Wisconsin July 15-18, outdoors. Someone catch me up on the Covid-19 statistics for the Green Bay area.

Woodstock was in upstate New York, similar type festival. I doubt New York, the state, was substantially less populated/vulnerable in the 60's than it now, compared to the rest of the United States. Still, New York or pick your major metro area, I'd suggest using one that didn't get riots and massive protests after the Floyd deal, bad example to argue from, and compare to Green Bay area.

Anyone see the havoc humans foisted on NYC during the riots and protests? How many humans were involved in that? I mean, come on, where's the outrage? But hammer on a music festival with 2500 people max? Please don't insult my intelligence.

I'm watching a moving festival right now, going from state to state, started yesterday at Bandimere Raceway near Denver CO and will cover around 1300 miles of a travel and racing, 225 race cars driving on the roads, eating, fueling, hoteling, you name it. I didn't see any masks at Bandimere yesterday in any of the video I watched. Lots of hand shaking, hugs, back slaps and otherwise normal human interaction. Those folks aren't discussing Covid, they're out racing, touring and having a good time in life, like going to a music festival. Good on them.

[preraph]

2 hours ago, carhill said:

How many pandemics have you been through? I've been through four, spanning back to the 1950's. Seriously, the way this has gone is nuts, comparatively. Nuts. I stand by that and will take it to my grave. Been on the planet a long time, worked in a very dangerous industry for life. This BS is nothing new to any of us who've been around. Whacked out peer pressure is nothing new either. I've battled those cretins my whole life. Still alive, healthy as a horse, have always been. Full of bugs though, only human. Stay away!👍

If I wasn't literally the model for ALL the risk factors and at my age, I wouldn't be very worried, because I just never get the flu.  But in fairness, I also live alone, no kids, but of course, I go out in public.  Docs say that won't save you on this one, though, that no one has immunity.  

[clia]

I don't really see how this type of outdoor music festival is much different than the protests -- a large gathering of people outdoors.  

 

 

[d0nnivain]

You don't generally pay to go to a protest & I think protestors may be more sober.  People tend to drink at festivals causing more poor decisions but the aggregate # of people is probably the same. 

Neither sit right with me.  

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, clia said:

I don't really see how this type of outdoor music festival is much different than the protests -- a large gathering of people outdoors.  

 

 

From an infection control perspective, neither were-are a good plan. 

[Redhead14]

Herd immunity concert attracts stupid sheep.

[Angelle]

5 hours ago, clia said:

I don't really see how this type of outdoor music festival is much different than the protests -- a large gathering of people outdoors.  

 

 

This is designed to allow people to get sick. That's how it's different. No masks, or being careful around others. I suppose it isn't that different from the armed protesters, who wanted everything opened up, to "sacrifice the weak".

[clia]

19 minutes ago, Angelle said:

This is designed to allow people to get sick. That's how it's different. No masks, or being careful around others. I suppose it isn't that different from the armed protesters, who wanted everything opened up, to "sacrifice the weak".

This is what the article says:

Quote

Organizers spoke briefly with WFRV Local 5, saying that attendance to the mini-fest will be limited to 2,500 people – about 20 percent of what the venue can accommodate to ensure “anyone has the choice to social distance.”

That doesn't sound like it's designed to allow people to get sick.  it sounds like there will be plenty of space for people to spread out if only at 20% capacity.  I've been to music festivals at 100% capacity and still found space to "social distance" from others.  My point is just that if it's okay to go outside and protest, then it should be okay to attend something like this as well. 

I think the name was an attempt at a joke that obviously fell flat and was not well received.

[Redhead14]

1 hour ago, clia said:

My point is just that if it's okay to go outside and protest, then it should be okay to attend something like this as well. 

I think the name was an attempt at a joke that obviously fell flat and was not well received.

I haven't seen anything that says it's OK to go outside and protest.  The protesters decided they would go outside and protest, but it was against any expert health advice.

[clia]

25 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

I haven't seen anything that says it's OK to go outside and protest.  The protesters decided they would go outside and protest, but it was against any expert health advice.

But you had a lot of Governors looking the other way when it was going on, even though the protests violated their COVID Executive Orders.  I can't speak to Wisconsin, but in Michigan, we were supposedly limited to gatherings outside of 10 or fewer and were also under a shelter-in order when the protests first started.  But people were still allowed to gather by the 100s all over the state to protest, no worries.  Then, about midway through the protest period, the gatherings got increased to up to 100 people and the shelter in was lifted, so it was a little better.  But the Governor posted pictures of herself on Instagram right in the thick of the protest, arm in arm with others (no social distancing), violating her own Executive Order.  I just have a problem with that kind of hypocrisy and felt that it was really widespread throughout the protests from various leaders in the country.  

[Redhead14]

9 minutes ago, clia said:

But you had a lot of Governors looking the other way when it was going on, even though the protests violated their COVID Executive Orders.  I can't speak to Wisconsin, but in Michigan, we were supposedly limited to gatherings outside of 10 or fewer and were also under a shelter-in order when the protests first started.  But people were still allowed to gather by the 100s all over the state to protest, no worries.  Then, about midway through the protest period, the gatherings got increased to up to 100 people and the shelter in was lifted, so it was a little better.  But the Governor posted pictures of herself on Instagram right in the thick of the protest, arm in arm with others (no social distancing), violating her own Executive Order.  I just have a problem with that kind of hypocrisy and felt that it was really widespread throughout the protests from various leaders in the country.  

I have a problem with the hypocrisy also.  And, allowing it and being safe to do so are two different things.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Redhead14