Am I a bad friend?

[Lorenza]

So long story short - me and Laura have been friends for 4,5 years now. We share loads of common interests and when we can't meet up, we text non stop. I have recently moved countries so now we can't even meet up all that much, so its mostly texting and sending voice messages.

Ever since I've known her she's been with this guy, a non-religious muslim guy, who's very ambitious and down-to-earth, has no real interests besides his mother, siblings, food, making money and sex, while she is a travel addict, a professional musician and overall a cultural person. So quite a cultural clash, but it could have worked fine since he would keep her grounded and she would widen his horrizons. However from very early on they had insane fights - calling each other all the nastiest words possible, slamming doors, Laura getting physical both on him and hurting herself, hysteria, crying etc. But I will not get into details of their fights - the thing is that I always got to hear every little thing about whats going on between, though mostly from her perspective, which means painting him as the devil. 

Naturally, I would get pretty tired giving Laura advice and reading pages of her rambling on and on about him and their fights. They would have a calm period for some time and then something would blow up out of nowhere and the whole world had to hear about it too, especially me. Two months ago they had another fight and it escalated quite a bit. He said he can't go on like that and finally ended things with her for good (they had several "almost breakups). She moved out, he started looking for someone else etc. 

So Laura is not doing well. Actually, she is a complete mess, doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, blames herself for always blowing up on the guy. This leads to the question of this thread. I've been pretty much a 24/7 therapist for during the whole fight and the aftermatch. Messages, voice messages, giving advice, supporting, giving tough love. And honestly I feel like I shouldn't be that - i mean there should be a limit on how much you can unload on a friend. It got to the point that she is repeating stuff and goes on and on about the same thing. I started feeling exhausted and kinda used as a diary so I recently tried asking her to not talk to me about it anymore and that we can talk about something else instead. She has a therapist now, so I said she should talk to her instead. 

But talking about something else seems impossible right now. She doesn't really care about other people anymore and just wants to talk about how bad she feels and how much she wants the guy back. Even when I mentioned that some psycho dude was trying to chase me while I was on my evening walk a few days ago, she barely reacted. Not even a polite "oh noo, be careful". Only a "god.. yeah what a s***ty summer, I wish it was over". 

After this I wrote "you know, your ex isnt the only person on the planet that matters, you wouldnt seem to care even if I was attacked by the guy". But I'm thinking I am kicking someone who is already down? Maybe Laura doesn't have the mental capacity to care about someone else? However I don't have the energy left to listen to her wallowing in self pity and think that its not ok to endlessly unload on your friends without really caring about them.. 

What should i do?

[Lorenza]

Opinions, anyone?

[Happy Lemming]

I had a really good friend going through a divorce.  Of course, I listened to him complain and complain and complain. It was always about the damn divorce and what a shrew his soon to be ex-wife was.

I'd try to change the subject and he'd steer right back to the divorce.  I tried to talk about some of the things going on in my life and he'd change the subject back to the divorce. 

During this time, I had a project house on the market and it sold.  When I moved, I cancelled my land-line and my cell phone.  I did not give my friend my new number or my new address.  We had been friends about 10 years, but enough was enough.... it was time to dissolve the friendship.

I hit my wall and couldn't take anymore.  I think you have hit that same wall with your friend, time to say good-bye and simplify your life.

[FMW]

If you haven't, I think you need to be really clear with her.  Your friend is hurting and wrapped up in her own little world, and yes, selfish right now.  

Tell her that you love her and that you are really sorry for what she's going through but you just can't hear any more about it, that she needs to start doing something to make things better instead of just wallowing.

I went through a bad heartbreak a few years ago and the friend I talked to the most about it told me, after about a month, that she didn't want to hear me talking about it anymore, that I needed to move on, that I was better off without him and I needed to focus on that and moving forward.  I won't lie, I wasn't happy with her about that (especially since I've listened to her complaining about relationships for years now) but it honestly did help me snap out of it a bit.    

[Lorenza]

Yeah I have definitely hit my wall... But she is one of my best friends, and I don't have that many. I can't decide if I'm doing the right thing by refusing to hear more about her breakup. This exact scenario have already happened with another female friends who was going through a breakup and was also so completely into her own problems too, for a long. Now it's happening again, and I'm not sure if I'm the one who's in the wrong. But I can't stand reading and listening to anymore of her whining.. I had also had hardships and complained about them, but never to this extent.. it can't possibly be normal to go on and on about a relationship for two months and always expect the colvo will be about it, can it? 

Also, after I called her out about not reacting that freaky guy going after me saying "alright... yeah, your apathy is really showing!", she stopped writing completely. 

[preraph]

I've been guilty of doing what your friend is doing, I imagine.  I would go ahead and tell her what you said you didn't.  Of course, she doesn't want to make room to care about someone else's problems right now, but it would probably benefit her to do so.  

 

You don't need to cut her off about it, but you need to lay out ground rules.  Tell her, I want to be your friend through this, but since I don't have infinite time and have my own problems and life to live, can you just agree not to repeat stuff you've already told me?  Saying it over and over doesn't change anything.  I can be more helpful if I can sort out new information from that we've already talked about.  Thanks.

[Lorenza]

6 minutes ago, FMW said:

If you haven't, I think you need to be really clear with her.  Your friend is hurting and wrapped up in her own little world, and yes, selfish right now.  

Tell her that you love her and that you are really sorry for what she's going through but you just can't hear any more about it, that she needs to start doing something to make things better instead of just wallowing.

I went through a bad heartbreak a few years ago and the friend I talked to the most about it told me, after about a month, that she didn't want to hear me talking about it anymore, that I needed to move on, that I was better off without him and I needed to focus on that and moving forward.  I won't lie, I wasn't happy with her about that (especially since I've listened to her complaining about relationships for years now) but it honestly did help me snap out of it a bit.    

I have, believe me, I have! I gave quite a bit of tough love too, saying she can't be talking about it all the time, how exhausted I am about constantly giving her advice and how it shouldn't be that way. She would only say "yeah I understand" not once did she say sorry or thank you! I think she is even mad about me being against her guy, but she's the one who's been dumping on him for 4 years for me... then apparently she's done messed up things too, and was getting irritated by me defending her - TO her! Gosh... 

[preraph]

Remind her friendship is a two-way street.  It's really hard to hear about it over and over when probably you'd already been letting her know your opinion all along and she's just ignoring it.  You should also add that you'd feel better about listening and adivising her if she EVER took your advice.  Tell her it's hard to watch her continue to walk in front of an oncoming train.

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by preraph

[Fox Sake]

You need to fill your friend with positivity and empathy. I would say send her to LS but maybe you don’t want that. 
Enthusiasm breeds enthusiasm, negativity breeds negativity. Try and remember when you were hurting once . Sometimes we just need people to listen and help pull us out of a hole   

I lost friends after going through heartache. They got sick of my s*** after a while lol but so did I and I purposefully pushed everyone away and shut down to rebuild. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Fox Sake

[Lorenza]

1 minute ago, preraph said:

Remind her friendship is a two-way street.  It's really hard to hear about it over and over when probably you'd already been letting her know your opinion all along and she's just ignoring it.  You should also add that you'd feel better about listening and adivising her if she EVER took your advice.  Tell her it's hard to watch her continue to walk in front of an oncoming train.

 

Oh yes, she's ignoring most of it.. Then someone else says the same thing to her, and she comes back to me with a revelation! But I've been saying the same exact thing... 

Honestly, no matter what I say I think she won't care of hear. It's just him who matters in the whole wide world -_- and only now when she lost him. 

[preraph]

Yeah, that's kind of a sibling type thing when people do that.  She takes you for granted and doesn't really respect your opinion but she knows she can lean on you.  My sister is kind of that way.  It doesn't matter what I tell her, she pays no mind, but if one of her couple of male friends tells her the same thing, suddenly she listens.  I don't appreciate that kind of treatment.  It's just being taken for granted.  

 

Why not give her something else to think about and let her know about that particular grievance as well as long as she's mad at you anyway.  

[Ruby Slippers]

You're right to tell her it's time to talk to her therapist about this. I'd politely convey that I don't want to talk about that particular subject anymore and stick to it.

When friends and I talk about breakups, we reference it in a handful of conversations and move on. Nobody wants to listen to endless complaining about the same thing. We all have things we could whine about, but most of us try to contribute to conversation in a more positive way.

[mark clemson]

A few points to consider -

Despite the term "BFF" friendships are not necessarily (or usually) permanent. Circumstances change, people "outgrow each other" etc.

Sometimes you can't save people from themselves.

Some people are "addicted to drama" and gravitate towards "fire and gasoline relationships" and red flags until they eventually (hopefully) wise up.

Sometimes people become very wrapped up in their emotional issue of the day/week/month/year and really need to focus on it/process it.

It's positive and expected for friends to support one another. However, a friend is not a therapist and generally shouldn't be asked to sit in for one for any length of time unless the situation is desperate and/or a real, fully qualified therapist is available.

Generally, friendship is a two-way street and should be mutually enjoyable/enjoyed and mutually beneficial.

It can be hard to maintain a friendship long-distance.

 

The point of me listing all these platitudes is to help you reflect on this friendship and where it might be going and/or where you might take it (or not take it) next.

[Artdeco]

I have a friend like this and she’s in a bad relationship. She’s in agony. Worse than your friend. They break up - get together - break up. And there is more involved than just emotional abuse and arguing, there happens to be some physical abuse as well occasionally and it’s not funny. 

Is she talking about it constantly? Yes – she definitely is. I have “hit the wall”, as you like to put it, multiple times. Guess what? I’m still here for her. Always. Am I listening? Yes, I definitely am listening. Because I am her friend. I would consider myself to be a really bad friend if I got fed up with her stories or lost patience with her. Then I wouldn’t be a friend at all. 

Part of being a friend is putting your own mundane worries aside and focusing on the person who really seems to have problems....you know - it’s not always about us. Me me me is probably a thing that younger people are most concerned with, but as you mature, you’ll understand it’s not always about you. 

I’m sure you have problems as well and you want to talk about your stuff. But at the moment I think her problems are more significant than yours are. And she’s suffering. Or?

 

Either way - I love my friend and I want to be a good friend to her. Friendship is very important to me. And I’m sure that at some point - when I really need her - she will be there for me just like I’m here for her now. That’s what friendship is all about. I don’t want to call anybody a bad friend, but since you asked so bluntly in your introduction, I would say yes definitely – you’re a bad friend - at least right now. Can you rethink your approach? I think you’re not a real friend if you can’t deal with a friend’s problems. That’s a fair weather friend, or an acquaintance. Nothing more. A real friend is a real friend. That’s all. 

[Lorenza]

53 minutes ago, Artdeco said:

I have a friend like this and she’s in a bad relationship. She’s in agony. Worse than your friend. They break up - get together - break up. And there is more involved than just emotional abuse and arguing, there happens to be some physical abuse as well occasionally and it’s not funny. 

Is she talking about it constantly? Yes – she definitely is. I have “hit the wall”, as you like to put it, multiple times. Guess what? I’m still here for her. Always. Am I listening? Yes, I definitely am listening. Because I am her friend. I would consider myself to be a really bad friend if I got fed up with her stories or lost patience with her. Then I wouldn’t be a friend at all. 

Part of being a friend is putting your own mundane worries aside and focusing on the person who really seems to have problems....you know - it’s not always about us. Me me me is probably a thing that younger people are most concerned with, but as you mature, you’ll understand it’s not always about you. 

I’m sure you have problems as well and you want to talk about your stuff. But at the moment I think her problems are more significant than yours are. And she’s suffering. Or?

 

Either way - I love my friend and I want to be a good friend to her. Friendship is very important to me. And I’m sure that at some point - when I really need her - she will be there for me just like I’m here for her now. That’s what friendship is all about. I don’t want to call anybody a bad friend, but since you asked so bluntly in your introduction, I would say yes definitely – you’re a bad friend - at least right now. Can you rethink your approach? I think you’re not a real friend if you can’t deal with a friend’s problems. That’s a fair weather friend, or an acquaintance. Nothing more. A real friend is a real friend. That’s all. 

I don't know, this just feels wrong. In your opinion there cannot be a point at which it is too much to expect your friends to always be there to talk about your problems, but for me it feels that it can be. And what is the point in surrounding yourself with that kind of friendships where someone's always in agony of their own making? 

When I suffer emotionally, I don't want to be a burden to anybody. Yes I talk it out and then I stop at some point because I realise they are not my emotional punchbags with endless patience. I'd rather take a break in contacting them than write pages and expect them to repeat the same advice. What is the point in Laura writing to me everyday "I feel so bad, I am worthless - why oh why did I ruin my relationship? I will never find happiness again. It is done for me." Then me answering "You are not worthless, it's not only your fault, you will definitely find happiness just need to suffer this one through!". Her: "No. I will not find happiness. It is my fault thought. I have ruined my life." Me: "You are (her good qualities), you will be definitely be happy again". Her "No, I will not." Then after two months of this types of conversations I lose patience and tell her to talk to a psychologist instead and I don't wanna hear more of her self-bashing and putting the guy on pedestal, the guy she would bash for 4 years for me. There is a chance she will be going on in the same way for months to come, and months to come I continue telling her "you will find happiness, you are not worthless, you will find happiness, you are not worthless"?

Because I don't feel I phisically can. Her breakup has exhausted me so much I haven't paid all that much attention to my own dating life lately. When I was out on dates, I would excuse myself to go text her. During my work I would contstantly text her, on my evening walks I would record messages for her along the way. I have skipped breakfasts because there would be an avalanche of messages first thing in the morning. At which point does it become too much and not worth going down with the sinking ship? 

[DarrenB]

You've been a good friend in every way possible, however sometimes carrying the burden of someone else for too long will soon deteriorate you and the other person in the long run. Especially if the favor wouldn't be returned... sounds like a bad case of unrequited friendship.

I've done my fair share of constant uplifting for the most selfish of people who would never take into consideration anyone else's feelings besides their own, before or after being in the state they're in. Morally, it's of course a good and simple gesture to do for someone, but on a very consistent basis and with them showing no regard for you then I wouldn't let it continue as it is.

Don't let anyone be an Albatross around your neck @Lorenza, in this matter it would benefit you more to be the selfish person as oppose to the selfless one.

 

[chillii]

Really don't know about her , as your friend , it's really gonna be up to you tbh. But my sitch , a sort of best mate moved os. l get miles , miles of messages , and then he moves on to voice or tries to call. Just this morning there were 6 new voice , 6 , the way he talks they'll probably go 30 or 40mins.

He has the most insane women life they're all crazy mad , or so physically effd up and l get every sorted detail , or he 's found one he's in love with but he's still talking to 10 others or rambling on about another ones parents and customs , he's talking about 20 women at once , and most of it turns my stomach , the most revolting stuff l don't even know how he meets women like this . Meanwhile , my daughters moved in , l run a business, my gf is stuck 12 hours away with legal problems , l'm renovating , and there's at least some life in there too. Nothing about me , doesn't even know what l'm doing , just miles and miles or hours of his crap . l don't read any of it or listn to one voic anymore, l don't ven answer it, l use to skim it, now l just delete them. He thinks l have the time or interest to listen to this , is he on another planet or what. l've told him 50 times l don't wanna hear about all these crazy revolting women when your serious about someone real give me the drill. You think l have the interest or time to read hours of crap every day, l even told him l started just deleting stuff, haaaaa, he just keeps on going.

Haven't talked to him in a mth but it's still coming . He wasn't like this before, think l'll have to block him.

Edited June 27, 2020 by chillii

[Ellener]

On 6/26/2020 at 2:37 AM, Lorenza said:

I've been pretty much a 24/7 therapist for during the whole fight and the aftermatch.

Why?

That's the only question pertains to you.

Your own values and demands you make on yourself, if you think you've done enough now, then you have.

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, chillii said:

Nothing about me , doesn't even know what l'm doing , just miles and miles or hours of his crap .

ouch. 

[chillii]

56 minutes ago, Ellener said:

ouch. 

Your not kidding . He use to be a great guy , great listener too, caring, do anything for a friend , the only reason l haven't zapped him yet,  but l don't think l have much choice lately.

Edited June 27, 2020 by chillii

[Azincourt]

Your friend is abusive. Why would you want to keep someone like that as a friend?

[elaine567]

The Slough of Despond.
She can't pull herself out of it even if she tried.
She is grieving and she is  not in a place to even consider your feelings.
That is how grief hits some people.
Yes it is boring, yes it is annoying, yes it is no fun, but you are either a friend or you are not...
I would keep persuading her to see her therapist and try to organise some activities that you both can do that do not involve heart to heart chats. 

[Azincourt]

Why are people ignoring the fact that she is verbally and physically abusive? And that he's the same way, and that she physically hurts herself? Why would anyone want to be friends with someone who is self-destructive?

[Ellener]

6 hours ago, Azincourt said:

Why are people ignoring the fact that she is verbally and physically abusive? And that he's the same way, and that she physically hurts herself? Why would anyone want to be friends with someone who is self-destructive?

Dramatic people can be interesting ( until they're not)....a shared history and nostalgia...learning a life lesson: my alcoholic friend taught me a lot about how not to be.

[Azincourt]

Yeah, it's like people need entertainment in their lives to feel alive,  in many cases. If I want drama I'll just put a Steven Spielberg movie on, I don't need drama and complications in my life, and neither does OP. Your friend is in a self-destructive trajectory. Don't get caught in it's orbit.