I suspect my wife and my best friend had an affair

[Betrayed&Stayed]

6 hours ago, blueplant said:

I was broken and told her "If this happens again, we are done, and I'm leaving you". 
 

This is your problem ^.

It reads from your post that she never had to come to terms with her affairs. You let her off the hook, so to speak. Sounds like a lot of rug sweeping went on over the years.

Well, she did it again so what are you going to do? Leave her, like you threatened?

[ExpatInItaly]

I don't think this is a marriage worth saving, OP. 

It's destroying you, and she will likely never stop seeking out other men. She's being "loving" now because she doesn't want to face the consequences of her actions, but I assure you that as soon as she thinks she's calmed you down, she'll be back on the hunt. 

I'm sorry, blueplant. You deserve respect, love and a happy life. You won't get it with her. 

[Lotsgoingon]

 

You are paranoid in this relationship for the same reason you would be paranoid to walk into a den of hungry, mean lions: you have reason to be paranoid!

Your partner knows how to manipulate you. Example: She had cheated before, but this was sort of a "overload". I was broken and told her "If this happens again, we are done, and I'm leaving you."

Brother, your response is empty. Imagine I steal money from my company and my boss finds out and says "If this happens again ..."  This would be my reaction, anyone's reaction. Well dang, I just need to cover my tracks a little better next time.  But actually my reaction (and hers to you) would be worse. God, this guy has no backbone. I stole money and he's not even upset. I wonder what else I can get away with?

Why are you staying with this woman? You need to fire her, dump her, just like a boss needs to immediately fire (and demand restitution and possibly report to the police) for an employee stealing. 

Here's another time you misunderstood things. I told her i could tell she was flirting, she cried and told me she wanted to be with me for the rest of her life. Brother, saying "I love you" is NOT a real response to someone accusing me of flirting with another. Your spouse knows how to distract with "I love you and want to be with  you." Those are just words that she has learned you will fall for. So what does she say when she sets up the next affair--in order to get your permission to go off "alone'" and have the affair? The same nonsense:  she wrote me a long love letter, trying to explain why she needed time alone, but that she still loves me.

This relationship cannot work. You're bending over backwards trying. She's not. Therefore, get out. Anyone would be paranoid in your position. That's why you leave a cheater. 

 

[Just a Guy]

Hi Blue plant, I guess you know what your wife is at heart. She is a serial cheater and she will keep following this pattern with you, with the next guy she marries if you divorce her and the next and so on and so forth. She has some sort of s deep seated psychological problem maybe due to a childhood trauma or situation and this can only be resolved with profession help and possibly sustained treatment. You can decide that you want to be her knight in shining armour and see her through such treatment which is likely to be costly and emotionally draining for you or you could simply divorce her and move on to someone who can be faithful and loyal to you. If you think that by your giving her a chance to overnight become s faithful wife and never cheat on you again then as some folk on this forum are wont to say, "I have a bridge to sell to you and sell it cheap"! Think about it. Warm wishes.

[mark clemson]

It's hard to understand why you would tolerate a second bout of this. You're clearly not the type of person who would accept an open marriage and she clearly is the type who "needs" that. The false reconciliation and creation of alone time as an opportunity for her to cheat shows that. This is obviously causing you a great deal of emotional pain.

Be aware that going hot/cold often messes with a romantic partner's emotions. Consider the possibility that, by pulling away/creating issues in the marriage she made you "need" her more. So then when she cheated, perhaps you were already worried about losing her, etc, so it was harder to follow through on your earlier ultimatum about cheating?

Suggest you sit and think about this for a while - possibly you have and/or her actions are intensifying some inner emotional insecurities/"neediness" in you?

If that's the case, you might consider going to an IC (not an MC) to work on this and get yourself to the point where you are firmly and fully able to be emotionally independent. Once there, I suspect you won't need to go back on any boundaries or ultimatums you may set.

[MsJayne]

Not very good advice because two wrongs don't make a right, but for creeps like your wife I suggest bringing home another woman and just acting like the wife's not even there. Much like what she's been doing to you. 

[JS84]

So it sounds like she cheats on you, you throw a tantrum, and then basically just sit around suffering. What consequences has she faced? She's a serial cheater. And the more you let her get away with it, which is basically what you've done, the more emboldened she's going to feel to keep doing it. Women do not respect weak men. And it doesn't sound like you've been handling this the way you should have. Why shouldn't she cheat on you? What exactly are you going to do about it when she does it again? Put another hole in the wall??  Throw another tantrum and mope? Ya that'll show her. Sorry for the 2x4 but it's time for you to wake up.

Edited May 5, 2020 by JS84

[Marc878]

The smart thing to do is just let her go. 

[NeverDoneLearning]

If you leave you grieve hard but it's temporary. If you stay you grieve hard over and over for the rest of your life. 

[Haters]

11 hours ago, blueplant said:

Hi Trudy,

I just read through your post. I'm so sorry about your experience. 

I read that you're afraid this paranoia won't go away. If you're like me, you're obsessing over messages, episodes, details, even your own apartment. 

Like I wrote, I experienced infidelity 3 years ago. This was not the first time however, and the paranoia grew after this. 

The paranoia grows, until I check her phone, and if I can't find anything, I let out a big sigh of relief. But this tension builds up, almost like clockwork, and I seem to need that proof of trust again and again. 

This has been the last 3 years. Now that I found out she has cheated again (the one time I actually do know about. If you catch someone stealing, it's probably not the first time), I believe it will get worse. 

I'm part time dad, part time private detective.

This sums up every cheating episode. Until you just take that leap of faith and just fall. Theres a better way to live!

[uranusman]

You know, of course, the reason why she needed time alone was because she was cheating. Right?

[oldlion]

Sorry my friend but you don't need any advice. What you need is to find some courage and self respect.  You have given her all the power in your marriage. She knows she can do what she wants and all you will do is punch holes in the wall. Remember when you told her, "If this happens again, we are done, and I'm leaving you." Well she did it again and again and you did nothing. Right there you lost all power in your marriage. I had two careers in 45 years. When I retired from the military I worked for the Department of Corrections for 20 years. One of the things I learned in both careers is, if you threaten to do something if an incident occurs and you don't carry through, then your word has lost all creditability. Next time you give an ultimatum all they are going to do is silently laugh at you. Right now you have three options. (1) Accept that your wife is going to have sex with whomever she choses and you will still stay with her. (2) Get some self respect and do something that will get you out of infidelity. You leave or kick her out or anything that will show her you mean business. (3) Tell her that she has declared that you have an open marriage and you are free to do as she does. You've had an open marriage for years. She just didn't tell you it was open and you just didn't accept the fact. You don't need advice. You need to make a decision. I do wish you well.

[blueplant]

Hey, thanks for the feedback people. 

I want you to know that I already know what I have to do. I'm never going to be happy in this relationship. I'm always going to question where she is, what she's doing when I'm not around, who she's chatting with on snapchat etc.

The worst part is the lying though, and how she acted like nothing had happened. 

While she rented her first apartment in November 2019, I could tell she used snapchat alot. I could tell because whenever she uses the app, her location udates on the snapchat map. So I would constantly check the snapmap, and her location updated every 2-3 minutes, meaning she was chatting with someone constantly. She never chats with family or friends that much. Also, she would hide her phone at all times. 

I confronted her, and she asked me if there was anything I wanted her to do to make her trust her more. I told her I wanted us to use the "Find My Phone" app on iPhone so I could know where she was, and she could know where I was at all times. 

Fast forward to the second apartment she rented. She turned off the "Find My Phone" application the last week she was there. This was because she visited him some time that week, and didnt' want me to find out about it. 

After her stay there, I knew she had been cheating, and so I asked her why she had turned off her location on Find My Phone. She said "I think it's time you should trust me". 

Again, it's the trust that's been broken completely. 

She asked me again a few days ago if there was anything at all she could do to make things right. I just told her I don't know. 

I don't think there is anymore, really. She's probably going to regreat this for a while, maybe even years, and then she'll start sleeping around again. 

At the time being, I'm out of a job. She works though, and we don't have seperate economy. I can't think of anywhere to stay at the moment, so I'm thinking of riding this thing out, live together and when my economy is in order, just let her know I'm done.

And no, I'm not going to stay, I want you to know that. I'm not letting this just fly by. But I've got to be tactical about this. I can't tell her I'm leaving and then just sit down on the couch. This is going to need some planning. If you have any ideas about how to proceed from this and still maintain civil, please let me know.

Thanks for the support

[mark clemson]

STRONGLY CONSIDER figuring out some discreet way to get an STD test if you haven't already is one piece of advice for you.

[Marc878]

Nothing wrong with planning. Just as long as you realize this is who she is, was and will always be.

 

[WilyWill]

I'm sorry, friend. Your wife is a serial cheater who will never change. At this point it's insulting for her to ask how to regain your trust. How many times has she asked this and then broken it? 

Reassure your son that you and his mother will love him no matter what. Explain what unconditional love is and that parents love their children forever. Apologize to him for your outbursts and tell him you've got everything under control. Explain that you and his mother are going to have to divorce but that you will still talk to him every day and never stop loving him. 

[schlumpy]

You may want to consider recording any future conversations you have with your wife to avoid false charges of abuse. Sony makes a good voice activated recorder or you can use your phone.

The main thing to concentrate on is protecting yourself and your child. List your assets and financial accounts. I'm sure you can get a list of what to do Online. Quit paying for anything that she's using like a car, phone, gym memberships, etc. Are you leasing or buying? Who's name is on the lease/deed? Separate financial accounts. Cancel all joint credit cards. Lots of things to consider.

I'm sorry but this will not be easy for you. 

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, WilyWill said:

 At this point it's insulting for her to ask how to regain your trust. How many times has she asked this and then broken it?

I tend to agree - this particular move in this particular case sounds like gaslighting to me. In fact this whole thing with the "need space", hotel rooms/etc sounds like gaslighting, given that some short term affairs occurred and then she's back expecting to stay married.

[Lotsgoingon]

 

Just get out as soon as you safely can, bro. Time to emotionally withdraw ... quit playing her game ... Don't answer when she asks you what she could do ... 

[Just a Guy]

Hi blue plant, I think you have the right plan in place considering your circumstances. Getting a job in these difficult times may pose a problem for you and since your wife is in a job and possibly earning reasonably well you might as well make use of her as she has made use of you over the years. Keep a low profile with her and do not upset your apple cart till your circumstances favour you. When you ate in a position to act then do so decisively and as quietly as possible so as not to arouse any suspicion in your wife. You can have your revenge later when you are in a position of strength. At that time file for divorce after getting your so called ducks in a row, and have her served at her workplace. By then you should have a place of your own lined up so that you do not have to come home to face her and her pestering you for answers as to why you did what you did. Just a thought. Warm wishes.

[blueplant]

Hey,

thanks for all the feedback. I know you want me to "ruin her life" and so forth, ruin her career, I could never bring myself to do that. Despite everything she has done, I still love her, and probably always will. I can however not stay with her, as she is ruining me mentally. But I don't hate her in any way. She made a mistake, we all do. But there has just been too many of them over the years.

Like I've mentioned before, my new obsession is: has she been fooling around with my best friend?

Ever since I caught my wife cheating, I've been looking back and thought about all these scenarios but in a different light.

I checked the messages between the two of them and at one point (a few years ago) he had written "Sorry I'm on vacation so I couldnt be there  tell everyone i said hi", and she writes back "yeah I wish you were here  "

There is not alot of other messages, seems like she has deleted most of them. 

So here's my plan:

I'm going over to my best friends house tonight. I have two choices:

1.

I can confront him, and tell him about the whole situation at home, and that me and my wife have been cleaning out our closets. And that she told me about him and her. And see how he reacts. I have to tell him "Look, she told me this happened years ago, and so it's no big deal but she told me you and her had a thing going."

2. 

I could go over there tonight, come back, and tell me wife he has told me they had a thing going on, and see how she responds. 

 

Also, I think I'm going to pretend my phone is out of battery, and ask him to borrow his. Then go through the messages quickly between him and my wife, as he probably never saw any reason to delete them. I could go out in the car, and pretend I need to check something for my wife or mom on the phone. Then buy me some time to check the messages.

What do you think I shoul do?

[schlumpy]

If you want more information, get your wife's phone. Have a tech run a recovery app on it and see what comes out. If you have experience, then do it yourself. The problem is working with an unfamiliar program might lead to failure or you missing something. It's better to have someone do it who knows all about it.

I don't know if it's a good thing to confront your friend. He'll just deny and then call up your wife to give her a heads up. If you want information that you can trust it has to be done without her knowing you are doing it. That means GPS for the car. That means voice activated recorders in places she would make phone calls. That means surveillance when she thinks she's safe. That would mean many months of your life wasted spending time with her while she has sex with other men.

And at this point, what good will it do you? Now you know she's had thirty lovers instead of the two you know about. You have new text where she talks about you and the marriage in a disparaging way. The mind movies you have of her being pounded by some Adonis become real as the video comes in.

Focus on getting out with as much as you take with you. Point yourself towards a future with someone who shares your values and cut this cancer out of your life. Don't give in to your "White Knight" tendencies.

If you ruin your wife's life or not that's up to you. My only reasonable concern is that two years from now you are living a more satisfactory life than you are now.

[JS84]

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thanks for all the feedback. I know you want me to "ruin her life" and so forth, ruin her career, I could never bring myself to do that. Despite everything she has done, I still love her, and probably always will. I can however not stay with her, as she is ruining me mentally. But I don't hate her in any way. She made a mistake, we all do. But there has just been too many of them over the years.

No one said you had to ruin her life and her career. We're saying your approach to this has been all wrong. And if you had handled it correctly the right way earlier (exposure would have been a good start) there's a chance (no guarantee of course) you could put a curb on this type of behavior in your marriage. Even now you want to treat her like she's a child who's learning her way through the world. She didn't make a mistake.

You really need to stop making excuses for her. She's a grown woman who is married and has deliberately and repeatedly cheated on you with other men. Again, that's not a mistake. She wasn't walking down the street and accidentally falling on other men's penises. She's not a little girl who kissed another boy on the playground. She knew exactly what she was doing. You need to accept that and treat her accordingly. Not saying you have to s*** all over her but you need to take her off the pedestal and take off those rose colored glasses. Who she is and who you think she is/want her to be are two very different things entirely. You need to reconcile that in your mind and your heart.

And no one expects you to stop loving her. It's not like people get cheated on and their love turns off like a light switch. Otherwise infidelity wouldn't be such an emotionally charged issue. But you need to start using your head and ignoring your heart. 

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1.

I can confront him, and tell him about the whole situation at home, and that me and my wife have been cleaning out our closets. And that she told me about him and her. And see how he reacts. I have to tell him "Look, she told me this happened years ago, and so it's no big deal but she told me you and her had a thing going."

2. 

I could go over there tonight, come back, and tell me wife he has told me they had a thing going on, and see how she responds. 

Neither one of these seem like a great idea. At least not at this point in time. If something did happen they're most likely just going to deny it and then warn the other to get their stories straight. If they haven't already. And that's IF anything even happened. It doesn't sound like you have proof of anything just a suspicion and a vague text message. I would save this approach until after you file for divorce. Actually I wouldn't even bother with #2 period. Don't tip your hand now.

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Also, I think I'm going to pretend my phone is out of battery, and ask him to borrow his. Then go through the messages quickly between him and my wife, as he probably never saw any reason to delete them. I could go out in the car, and pretend I need to check something for my wife or mom on the phone. Then buy me some time to check the messages.

What do you think I shoul do?

Wasting your time and spinning your wheels. What you're proposing is called Analysis Paralysis. Where you waste so much time looking for evidence of something you can't even really be sure happened that you wind up accomplishing nothing. You know your wife has cheated on you multiple times. You have more than enough reason to file for divorce based on that alone. You don't need to waste time finding one more instance of her cheating at this point. Right now you should be focusing on what you need to do to get out of the marriage with as little damage to yourself financially and mentally. Not playing mind and spy games with her and your best friend. That is just an excuse to do more of what you've been doing all this time. Which is basically nothing.

Edited May 9, 2020 by JS84

[mark clemson]

Since you've decided on divorce and are waiting for an opportune time due to practical matters, there may be little harm in looking into what else may have happened. However, I agree that if it causes you increased emotional distress, you might wish to stop. I also definitely agree that should be a secondary concern to creating a good parachute for yourself.

I don't think your approaches with the friend make too much sense (either one) as she may well have asked that he delete any text messages. Also if you are trying to "lay low" - as noted, he may contact her to let her know what happened in your conversation. As for talking to her, she will no doubt attempt to hold this over your head in some way when she finds out you lied. (Ironic, given what she has done.)

No other plans for finding this out are coming to mind for me, but perhaps you will think of something else?

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, blueplant said:

thanks for all the feedback. I know you want me to "ruin her life" and so forth, ruin her career, I could never bring myself to do that. Despite everything she has done, I still love her, and probably always will. I can however not stay with her, as she is ruining me mentally. But I don't hate her in any way.

 

I think it's positive that you don't wish her harm, despite what she has done. Different people react to infidelity in different ways, and not everyone feels some need for revenge and/or vicarious revenge. I'm pretty sure that not all suggestions above that may seem like revenge are truly intended as revenge as there are legitimate reasons for "stronger measures" in some folks eyes, but perhaps some of them are.

I do wonder if your feelings might not change over time as this all continues to sink in. Also, it appears she actually wants to stay married and just have affairs on the side, so losing that may be a (modest) form of revenge anyhow. For example you will have custody time with your child and having the child "out of sight" can be distressing for many women. That's a risk she took.

I do also wonder if you will still love her after the divorce, as that tends to take a big toll on people too, but I guess time will tell.