rock hard place? domestic violence

[d0nnivain]

Last night the neighbors got into it.  The cops eventually came.   She was screaming like she was being murdered so I ran down there.  Other neighbors came out from as far as a block away.  I was the 1st person who got to her & she was hysterical screaming in the front yard.  He took off in a drunken rage. 

I ended up accompanying her to the police department, assuming she would get a restraining order.  The cops did take his guns out of her house.  They charged with him with assault but she decided against the retraining order.  He will get the guns back.  

This is the 3rd time he's done this to her but the 1st time in this town  But she's a legal immigrant, financially dependent on him, a SAHM with 2 kids under 4.  He makes a good living but has an EX & 2 teens.   Her  parents are on the other side of the planet -- literally.  Her mom has Covid so she does not want to stress her mom out more.  Her parents are also sick of her complaining about his treatment of her but never doing anything.  The parents were here in the USA the last time he struck her.  

The neighbor wants her kids to have a relationship with the father.  She was a bit taken aback by the cop's admission that if she signed the TRO application, it would take at least a month for them to get back into court to start the FRO application process.  Before Covid, in this state you were back in court in 3 -5 days.  She did not want her boys to be away from their father for 30+ days.  She insists that when this stuff happens, he's a sweet lamb on his best behavior for the next 6 - 9 months.  

She is hoping for marriage counseling.  I gave her  3 - 4 local names.  This is the 1st time he's been charged with anything.  In the past he had so many friends on the police department in the other towns that things were swept under the rug.  She's also hoping that when they go to court on these charges, he will be ordered to under go mandatory anger management.  I told her they can't force him into AA or another drug / alcohol program but she's hoping for that too.  

At the police station when I realized she didn't want to sign for the TRO & the cops were getting frustrated, I asked if we could speak to a domestic violence advocate so one called her cell phone.  I was disappointed because that person just reassured her that she was not required to apply for the restraining order.  I was expecting the advocate to emphasize the benefits of the TRO.  

Until last night I thought things were fine.  While I was focused on her, the next door neighbors told my husband that the problems had been brewing all week & worsening all day.   

So what else is there?  Are there programs?  Is there anybody she can talk to?  It just seems like she feels trapped.  If she's not strong enough to walk fully away, is there something she can do?  

Edited June 27, 2020 by d0nnivain

[Atwood]

From the Women's Aid website:

Quote

 

"How you can help 

• Listen to her, try to understand and take care not to blame her. Tell her that she is not alone and that there are many women like her in the same situation.
• Acknowledge that it takes strength to trust someone enough to talk to them about experiencing abuse. Give her time to talk, but don’t push her to go into too much detail if she doesn’t want to.
• Acknowledge that she is in a frightening and very difficult situation.
• Tell her that no one deserves to be threatened or beaten, despite what her abuser has told her. Nothing she can do or say can justify the abuser’s behaviour.
• Support her as a friend. Encourage her to express her feelings, whatever they are. Allow her to make her own decisions.
• Don’t tell her to leave the relationship if she is not ready to do this. This is her decision.
• Ask if she has suffered physical harm. If so, offer to go with her to a hospital or to see her GP.
• Help her to report the assault to the police if she chooses to do so.
• Be ready to provide information on organisations that offer help to abused women and their children. Explore the available options with her. Tell her Women’s Aid and how to access our website.
• Go with her to visit a solicitor if she is ready to take this step.
• Plan safe strategies for leaving an abusive relationship.
• Let her create her own boundaries of what she thinks is safe and what is not safe; don’t urge her to follow any strategies that she expresses doubt about.
• Offer your friend the use of your address and/or telephone number to leave information and messages, and tell her you will look after an emergency bag for her, if she wants this.
• Look after yourself while you are supporting someone through such a difficult and emotional time. Ensure that you do not put yourself into a dangerous situation; for example, do not offer to talk to the abuser about your friend or let yourself be seen by the abuser as a threat to their relationship.

 

Getting her to access Women's Aid might be a good idea. It had a big, green EXIT SITE button on the side if she needs to change the screen quickly, but she will still need to delete it from her history. The best you can do is equip her with as many tools as possible and do not do anything to antagonise her husband. As soon as he realises you're a potential threat i.e you might help her to leave, he will find a way to get rid of you, whether it's turning her against you, making up rumours about you, interfering with your marriage or moving away. 

The stats are that it takes approximately 7 times to leave an abuser for good. She's at the start of climbing a mountain. The best you can do is ensure she knows that his behaviour is wrong and that you will support her if she needs to leave (in any way you are willing like keeping an emergency suitcause with some stuff for her and her children in it if she needs to suddenly leave. 

Are their any local domestic violence refuges near? 

I really feel for you. All I know is that women won't leave until they choose to and the only thing anyone can do to help is to not abandon them (even if their desperation to stay with the abuser is frustrating) and to provide them with the support and reassurance that they do not deserve that treatment and that the abuser's behaviour is not normal. She will attempt to go through counselling or management/damage control strategies first. It might be that she's told herself she won't leave if he doesn't hurt the kids. It's a sick, awful cycle and I really hope she's going to be alright

[spiderowl]

Direct her to information on the ‘cycle of abuse’. She may not have realised that this is a well-known pattern and that his sweet behaviour afterwards cannot be trusted. 

[Ollie180]

On 6/27/2020 at 5:12 PM, Atwood said:

The best you can do is ensure she knows that his behaviour is wrong and that you will support her if she needs to leave

100%!

Loads of people from the neighbourhood where I grew up knew my mums partner was violent... they put their heads down, can’t blame them for it, but what I think maybe they didn’t realise is that their silence sends a message. A message that says it’s okay.

Even just a quiet word that says you know what, what he does to you, it’s not okay - just that could mean the world to someone in your neighbours shoes!

[Ellener]

If he's been charged now maybe he'll learn something, sounds like alcohol counselling and anger management would be a good start. There's a book 'Why does he do that: inside the minds of angry and controlling men'  by Lundy Bancroft looks into the root causes and behaviours of abusive men. Maybe if she can place his behaviour in wider context she'll see more clearly that it's not a good family environment. They need separate counsellors before marriage counselling I'd say.

Well done for supporting and not looking the other way.

[d0nnivain]

I may get her that book or something like it.  

He was here yesterday with the cops who helped him move out.  Child services is also now involved which is really freaking the neighbor out.  On that score I don't blame her.  That agency can turn anything sinister.  

[alphamale]

don't get involved with this crap d0nnivain.  who knows what sort of dynamics are going on with these two.  one day this guy may shoot someone and it could be you

[d0nnivain]

alphamale

My neighbor was in the street screaming.  I could not ignore that.  One of my pet peeves is people who witness something but ignore it.  Failing to hold people accountable is part of why our country is a mess. 

I certainly do not want to make things worse or pour gas on a fire.  

We saw the husband leaving with the cop yesterday.  It was embarrassing for him.  So I texted him something about not judging people by the worst thing they have ever done & hoping with professional help he & his wife can get through this.  It seemed supportive of change while not demonizing him.  I assume if he feels ganged up on or judged he will be reluctant to get the help he needs.  

We'll see.  I'm not planning to get much more involved.  I may volunteer at the local domestic abuse support group.  They have been after me for years.  

[elaine567]

Many abused women live in fear and they are scared to leave.
With good reason actually as threatening to leave or actually leaving is a very dangerous time for them.
That is when they tend to get killed.

[alphamale]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

  I'm not planning to get much more involved.  I may volunteer at the local domestic abuse support group.  They have been after me for years.  

that's a good plan of action d0nnivain 

[Bluesky00]

On 6/27/2020 at 10:59 AM, d0nnivain said:

Last night the neighbors got into it.  The cops eventually came.   She was screaming like she was being murdered so I ran down there.  Other neighbors came out from as far as a block away.  I was the 1st person who got to her & she was hysterical screaming in the front yard.  He took off in a drunken rage. 

I ended up accompanying her to the police department, assuming she would get a restraining order.  The cops did take his guns out of her house.  They charged with him with assault but she decided against the retraining order.  He will get the guns back.  

This is the 3rd time he's done this to her but the 1st time in this town  But she's a legal immigrant, financially dependent on him, a SAHM with 2 kids under 4.  He makes a good living but has an EX & 2 teens.   Her  parents are on the other side of the planet -- literally.  Her mom has Covid so she does not want to stress her mom out more.  Her parents are also sick of her complaining about his treatment of her but never doing anything.  The parents were here in the USA the last time he struck her.  

The neighbor wants her kids to have a relationship with the father.  She was a bit taken aback by the cop's admission that if she signed the TRO application, it would take at least a month for them to get back into court to start the FRO application process.  Before Covid, in this state you were back in court in 3 -5 days.  She did not want her boys to be away from their father for 30+ days.  She insists that when this stuff happens, he's a sweet lamb on his best behavior for the next 6 - 9 months.  

She is hoping for marriage counseling.  I gave her  3 - 4 local names.  This is the 1st time he's been charged with anything.  In the past he had so many friends on the police department in the other towns that things were swept under the rug.  She's also hoping that when they go to court on these charges, he will be ordered to under go mandatory anger management.  I told her they can't force him into AA or another drug / alcohol program but she's hoping for that too.  

At the police station when I realized she didn't want to sign for the TRO & the cops were getting frustrated, I asked if we could speak to a domestic violence advocate so one called her cell phone.  I was disappointed because that person just reassured her that she was not required to apply for the restraining order.  I was expecting the advocate to emphasize the benefits of the TRO.  

Until last night I thought things were fine.  While I was focused on her, the next door neighbors told my husband that the problems had been brewing all week & worsening all day.   

So what else is there?  Are there programs?  Is there anybody she can talk to?  It just seems like she feels trapped.  If she's not strong enough to walk fully away, is there something she can do?  

This is all too much for you to intervene! Why are you helping her? Doesn’t she have friends? you should mind your own business and let professionals handle it. This is also her fault for ending up with a loser that beats her and having kids with him? 

[major_merrick]

Just remember that there's two sides to every story.  People often just assume that the man is the evil ogre and the woman is the victim.  Avoid getting involved in domestic issues, because you simply don't know the background aside from what she's told you. 

You've done what you can.  Obviously if they are out in the street in front of everybody, you can call the cops because they are disturbing the peace.  The cops are aware, other neighbors are aware....it is what it is.  She'll walk away or she won't, and it is her responsibility to do that.  You did the right thing by providing resources and contact info for people she can talk to. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by major_merrick

[Ruby Slippers]

Some neighbors told me that another set of neighbors in my culdesac have the same problem, but she won't leave because she has a gaggle of kids and no source of income other than him. I think it's a much more pervasive problem that I knew about before. 

[amaysngrace]

On 6/30/2020 at 9:42 AM, d0nnivain said:

Child services is also now involved which is really freaking the neighbor out.  On that score I don't blame her.  That agency can turn anything sinister.  

Not in my experience.  I had them come to my house twice after domestic violence incidents, one time they came early in the morning and we all were still in bed, well just my exH and I were, the babies were both asleep in their cribs.

Anyway they mostly just wanted to see where the kids slept, if there was enough baby food and if the kids were clean.  

 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

At the very least, if the man has any vested interested in not harming her or the rest of the family, he needs to get rid of all the weapons, willingly.

My sis is involved in a cycle of abuse such as this, but I'm (somewhat) glad that at least he did agree to get rid of all the guns over a year ago.  

It's so hard.....because it IS a cycle....:(.  And women in this situation have so many reasons to want things to stay "status quo."

Edited July 13, 2020 by CautiouslyOptimistic