My opening message on Bumble after she sent me an emoji opener

[Versacehottie]

3 hours ago, max3732 said:

Maybe I should have done something funny like that or made a funny comment about the hand clapping emoji like someone else said. I think Bumble is taunting me. I got a message from them just telling me I had a "like" and when I checked it says there are no more matches near me.

From her profile she looks like what I'm hoping to find so I'm willing to invest more effort that if it was just a random profile where she looked attractive but didn't have anything. She did write quite a bit on the profile.

One thing with Bumble is it shows you her location and it says she's far away (100 miles), but she does have on there that she lives near me. Maybe she's traveling for summer vacation and will message me when she gets back?

You are trying to rely on us to come up with the perfect thing to say. I think that's why people are being a little hard on you (me included, sorry).  I think you need to be yourself and you have a hard time doing that so you look externally--where perhaps more internal development or at least learning how to express WHO YOU ARE would be most helpful.   

A crucial step is not letting ANY girl be more important than you, no matter how much you want a relationship.  That is typically transparent and a major, major turnoff.  You are getting too attached, and imagining too much about a person from just a profile.  Which leads you to attach too much weight to the situation and you are losing yourself in the process (or maybe did not develop yourself).  Let's say you really want a girlfriend (which we do know you do).  Why?  An external extension of who you want to be is not going to last or will be doomed from the start if you are not about anything.  Like what are you about?  Not just hobbies.  Maybe we can help you learn better how to express it.  

I'm getting a little worried because when you run into a girl you like on these apps you do still treat it like you are mentally comparing it to a checklist.  These type of people usually don't fare well in romance IMO.  You've got to do something where you are "compelled" beyond the list, in SPITE of the list. Make sense?  try to expand your horizons on that.  If only to get you more dating experience and so you won't hold on for dear life when you come across one golden nugget (who you don't really know and might not be all that).

Lastly, bumble is very in the moment, quick read etc.  So you've got to take a lighter hand into how you treat dealing with the matches and your approach toward them.  It may absolutely be fleeting.  It's the nature of the app vs other dating sites like compared to eharmony, big difference so you will probably be more successful on there if you treat it more like that.  Good luck as always

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

“So.. does this mean we’re married now? 🤔”

(if she’s got a sense of humour, she’ll bite 😆)

This is funny but I'm no longer able to laugh at stuff. 😆

[basil67]

On 6/28/2020 at 10:36 AM, max3732 said:

I thought women didn't like shirtless pics?

Watching my daughter swipe past all the chiselled abs.....  

 

[balletomane]

Versace is right. The shirtless photo question provides a perfect example of what it would mean to focus on sincerity and authenticity over trying to find the magic date-winning formula. Some women do like them. Others (like me) find them very tacky and would ignore any man who had them on his profile. There is no rule you can follow here that will guarantee you more matches.

The real question is: are you the type of guy who is happy to use shirtless photos? Is it something you'd do naturally? If it is, then post them. That's an authentic reflection of you. If it's not, then don't post them. Apply this logic to everything.

[Azincourt]

7 hours ago, basil67 said:

Watching my daughter swipe past all the chiselled abs.....  

 

 

There are women who aren't looking for men with chiseled abs. They're ignoring those men for the men with college degrees in advanced mathematics. Other women are ignoring the men with advanced degrees, for men who work as farmers.  Women have a varied taste in men, that's how it is, and that's great.  I got dumped once by a woman because according to her I spent too much time at the gym, so a woman's priorities can change with her age, and what once attracted her to him might change, and that might lead to the end of the relationship. All good.

Either way, it doesn't hurt for OP to get in shape and to put the results of his efforts out there.

[basil67]

Yes @Azincourt you nailed it.  She's looking for a guy who has a brain.  So let's not pretend that all women want shirtless photos.  Going on a tangent: why do you insinuate that farmers are without brains?  That's just rude.  A man can be intelligent in ways which aren't purely academic.  

If the OP wants to get in shape for himself, then go for it.   But I would argue that if muscles will attract the the women who his brains cannot, then he needs to consider if that type of woman is right for him.   Thing is, I see the OP as a thinker.   A woman who is 🤪 for muscles over anything else would likely not be his type.

Edited June 30, 2020 by basil67

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Bumble is a joke, the only women who want to take initiative in dating are the ones that have to and there is a reason for that... Overly aggressive women are just a turn off, like sure, you have every right to be as masculine as you want, just as I have every right to be revolted by it.

[max3732]

14 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

You are trying to rely on us to come up with the perfect thing to say. I think that's why people are being a little hard on you (me included, sorry).  I think you need to be yourself and you have a hard time doing that so you look externally--where perhaps more internal development or at least learning how to express WHO YOU ARE would be most helpful.   

A crucial step is not letting ANY girl be more important than you, no matter how much you want a relationship.  That is typically transparent and a major, major turnoff.  You are getting too attached, and imagining too much about a person from just a profile.  Which leads you to attach too much weight to the situation and you are losing yourself in the process (or maybe did not develop yourself).  Let's say you really want a girlfriend (which we do know you do).  Why?  An external extension of who you want to be is not going to last or will be doomed from the start if you are not about anything.  Like what are you about?  Not just hobbies.  Maybe we can help you learn better how to express it.  

I'm getting a little worried because when you run into a girl you like on these apps you do still treat it like you are mentally comparing it to a checklist.  These type of people usually don't fare well in romance IMO.  You've got to do something where you are "compelled" beyond the list, in SPITE of the list. Make sense?  try to expand your horizons on that.  If only to get you more dating experience and so you won't hold on for dear life when you come across one golden nugget (who you don't really know and might not be all that).

Lastly, bumble is very in the moment, quick read etc.  So you've got to take a lighter hand into how you treat dealing with the matches and your approach toward them.  It may absolutely be fleeting.  It's the nature of the app vs other dating sites like compared to eharmony, big difference so you will probably be more successful on there if you treat it more like that.  Good luck as always

I think that I'm getting frustrated and discouraged after some recent matches where I attempted to be myself and didn't want to mess this one up since it's the 1st Bumble match in a while and it seemed so promising. I've had some matches on Bumble where we've both swiped right and then she didn't send me anything and it expired. Then I keep getting messages saying if I pay it will bring it back for 24 hours.

What really got me upset was the Match that messaged me that we should play tennis. We sent messages back and forth and she says she wants to play this week. She lives right by a court, but that's 35 min away and I'm concerned about the virus and don't know what kinds of procedures they have. I went to the court nearby and checked it out and I was satisfied. So I ask if she can play at a court like 25 min from her and 15 from me. She says yes she and she is looking forward to playing this week. Then I say can you play in the morning and get nothing back. A few days later after I talked to some people who have played at the court next to her I tell her I can play there and how about Wednesday? No response. Then I check the app and she unmatched me although I still have her number. I'd been talking to her for weeks and she's just gone?

On top of that most of the Hinge matches fell apart. One woman was after a green card, another said she only wanted someone that was willing to do missionary work overseas. Yet another is moving to the area and said she wants someone to show her around.

Just being myself on these messages has caused me to get almost nothing back on Match and Eharmony and still be alone. 

You're absolutely right I was too attached on this one. Aside from the frustration of the tennis one I just mentioned that was fresh in my mind this Bumble match looks like someone I let get away and I didn't want that to happen again. It's not just the checklist items, but I really like what she wrote in her profile.

What do you mean what am I about besides hobbies? My values, personality, sense of humor? Is there something different you're thinking I should put in my profile or messages?

I did shorten my profile considerably and what I sent her was very short. 

I was also frustrated because I'm working on a very important, long term deal that's very complicated for work and yet I'm struggling to make sense of all these emojis or little text messages. I miss actually being able to talk to people face to face and over a longer period so you could get to know them.

Edited June 30, 2020 by max3732

[Sumting Wong]

Max.....your desperation is very evident in each of your posts.  I sense that your matches can sense this through your communications.  (Generalizing) Women like men who are decisive and confident.  If you're being yourself and no one is biting, accept that and continue being yourself.  The flipside is you put on some fake persona, she likes you, it goes beyond date one until she learns the real you and bails.  You're investing too much in a desired outcome.  Just chat with each match like a normal person you aren't trying to get something from.  

[poppyfields]

max, do you remember in the movie Sleepless in Seattle where Tom Hanks' character (Sam) was trying to date again after his beloved wife died?   This was before OLD (I think).

He was getting all these letters from women describing who they were and his young son, Jonah, was like, “oh she sounds perfect, she likes this, she likes that, she’s pretty, call her, she's perfect"!!

Sam responded by saying I don’t care about any of that; I prefer to meet someone and I just get a “feeling” about them, a vibe.   If the feeling is good and we’re vibing well, then I call her for a date.

That’s how I feel too, or felt, even when on line dating.  I just got a feeling, a vibe when we’re chatting on line, then we met to see if that same vibe continued and if so we started dating.

Max, I am bit confused why you say it seemed so promising.  What was so promising, what was written in her profile?  The fact she sent you one lame emoji?

I think I said this before, but love or even attraction is not found by checking off boxes off some arbitrary list of qualities you seek or what you read on a profile .  That is now how it works.

Even tho just a movie, it’s just like what Sam (Tom Hanks) said in Sleepless in Seattle.  You chat, you get a feeling, a vibe about that person.  You cannot get that from reading a profile!

You have to interact, and even then, put away your checklist and see how you feel.  A chemistry or energy with that person. How you are vibing, together.  I am getting the sense this is a foreign concept to you --- feeling, vibing.

Unfortunately, this woman has not responded to you, therefore there is nothing promising about this at all. 

You liked her profile, you think she’s cute, but she hasn't responded back, so there's nothing.  Certainly nothing promising, I am sorry.

I will say this again, but please, put away the lists.  Go out and meet women, interact with them, on line as well, be yourself.  And if you get a “feeling” about them, a good vibe, and sense that same vibe from her as well, then ask her out on a date and take it from there.

But she has to actually respond back and you need to interact for that to happen.

If she doesn't respond back, on to the next.  

Edited June 30, 2020 by poppyfields

[rjc149]

Shirtless photos are going to be polarizing. A lot (maybe even most) women will automatically screen you out. But some women like them, if you have a nice body. 

I remember in my OLD days, my first photo was of me in my boxers taking a shirtless mirror selfie. I'll toot my own horn and say that I fully enjoy the aesthetic perks of lifting weights and exercising religiously for the last 15 years. 

It was not an action photo. It was a shameless, self-taken photo of myself half-naked in front of the mirror. 

There is zero doubt that most of the women I sent a "hey how are you doing" message along with a shirtless mirror selfie immediately blocked me. Maybe 90% lol. I sent a lot of messages. But the ones who started a conversation with me usually met up with me, and my success rate in taking them to bed was pretty high. So basically, I was weeding out the flakes and time-wasters and making my intentions clear. Women were either aligned with it, or they weren't.

In sales, a no is just as good as a yes. It's the 'maybe's' that sink your business. I was essentially doing high-volume prospecting for hookups. So obviously that's not what you want, Max, but it's worth noting that being a little more assertive and daring in your profile, a little more controversial, as in real life, will weed out a lot of time-wasters and may intrigue someone. Your profiles sounds way too vanilla. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by rjc149

[CaliforniaGirl]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yes @Azincourt you nailed it.  She's looking for a guy who has a brain.  So let's not pretend that all women want shirtless photos.  Going on a tangent: why do you insinuate that farmers are without brains?  That's just rude.  A man can be intelligent in ways which aren't purely academic.  

If the OP wants to get in shape for himself, then go for it.   But I would argue that if muscles will attract the the women who his brains cannot, then he needs to consider if that type of woman is right for him.   Thing is, I see the OP as a thinker.   A woman who is 🤪 for muscles over anything else would likely not be his type.

I was wondering about this too. And...the opposite as well. Smart guys - mathematicians (edited - spelling, ugh!) was the example here - do not necessarily have skinny little arms, pocket protectors and a Band-Aid to hold their awful out-of-style glasses together.

It's just not like that anymore. Smart is cool, so both unattractive (if you will, we seem to be drawing such black-and-white lines here) and attractive people can be very smart. It's a thing. I promise.

Edited June 30, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[CaliforniaGirl]

So Max...any news???

[max3732]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

Max, I am bit confused why you say it seemed so promising.  What was so promising, what was written in her profile?  The fact she sent you one lame emoji?

I think I said this before, but love or even attraction is not found by checking off boxes off some arbitrary list of qualities you seek or what you read on a profile .  That is now how it works.

Unfortunately, this woman has not responded to you, therefore there is nothing promising about this at all. 

You liked her profile, you think she’s cute, but she hasn't responded back, so there's nothing.  Certainly nothing promising, I am sorry.

I will say this again, but please, put away the lists.  Go out and meet women, interact with them, on line as well, be yourself.  And if you get a “feeling” about them, a good vibe, and sense that same vibe from her as well, then ask her out on a date and take it from there.

But she has to actually respond back and you need to interact for that to happen.

If she doesn't respond back, on to the next.  

Of course I've heard of that movie, but have never seen it. I understand exactly what you're saying though and I'd love to meet women in real life. I couldn't find any before this virus and I certainly can't now. I'm trying to do virtual speed dating but they keep cancelling the events due to not having enough people. If there was a way I could spend time with women in real life and get to know them I'd love to do it.

This woman did respond twice in the sense that she swiped right and she sent me something. Of course that something was the bare minimum and not very promising.

Aside from the basic "checkbox" items I already mentioned I like her smile, body type, and that she has pictures with her family and pets. She says she's lived in some of the same areas as me, has many of the same hobbies, and says she wants someone family oriented, honest, and down to earth. She also says she is looking for marriage, whereas most profiles will say "dating".She actually wrote something fairly long for bumble.

Most profiles will also have things that are deal breakers or not even write anything. Sometimes what they do say is some kind of generic phrase.

I swipe right on every profile that looks remotely interesting and like there'd be any chance. Yet I just don't get any matches.

[max3732]

1 hour ago, rjc149 said:

Shirtless photos are going to be polarizing. A lot (maybe even most) women will automatically screen you out. But some women like them, if you have a nice body... 

So obviously that's not what you want, Max, but it's worth noting that being a little more assertive and daring in your profile, a little more controversial, as in real life, will weed out a lot of time-wasters and may intrigue someone. Your profiles sounds way too vanilla. 

Seems like maybe a shirtless pic in the right context would be ok. Like kayaking at swimming. One picture I almost uploaded was where I'm serving (in tennis), but my shirt came up and you can see my abs and a bit of my underwear. I don't think it's good to show you're underwear on a dating app.

Like I said my body isn't exactly at its peak right now. I'd really like to stop my stomach from sticking out. That said, the woman after a green card complimented my photos and said she would tell I work out and have strong arms and legs. 

20 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I was wondering about this too. And...the opposite as well. Smart guys - mathematicians (edited - spelling, ugh!) was the example here - do not necessarily have skinny little arms, pocket protectors and a Band-Aid to hold their awful out-of-style glasses together.

It's just not like that anymore. Smart is cool, so both unattractive (if you will, we seem to be drawing such black-and-white lines here) and attractive people can be very smart. It's a thing. I promise.

I'd say I'm more on the smart side, but I am also pretty athletic. I'm just not an extreme sports person or like a bodybuilder. One guy I met a few years ago said he assumed I would be nonathletic because I was smart and so humble, but when we played I actually beat him!

18 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

So Max...any news???

Nothing. I just checked and she's back in my area. 

I'm debating sending her something next week if I don't hear back. Nothing that requires too much effort. Maybe something like "Hope you weren't planning on leaving me with the sound of 1 hand clapping"

With the tennis one I'm thinking of actually picking up the phone and calling her and leaving a message (assuming she doesn't pick up) saying something like "Hey Sally, you had mentioned before you wanted to play this week. Not sure what happened with the texting, but how does next week sound?"

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Seems like maybe a shirtless pic in the right context would be ok. Like kayaking at swimming. One picture I almost uploaded was where I'm serving (in tennis), but my shirt came up and you can see my abs and a bit of my underwear. I don't think it's good to show you're underwear on a dating app.

Like I said my body isn't exactly at its peak right now. I'd really like to stop my stomach from sticking out. That said, the woman after a green card complimented my photos and said she would tell I work out and have strong arms and legs. 

I'd say I'm more on the smart side, but I am also pretty athletic. I'm just not an extreme sports person or like a bodybuilder. One guy I met a few years ago said he assumed I would be nonathletic because I was smart and so humble, but when we played I actually beat him!

Nothing. I just checked and she's back in my area. 

I'm debating sending her something next week if I don't hear back. Nothing that requires too much effort. Maybe something like "Hope you weren't planning on leaving me with the sound of 1 hand clapping"

With the tennis one I'm thinking of actually picking up the phone and calling her and leaving a message (assuming she doesn't pick up) saying something like "Hey Sally, you had mentioned before you wanted to play this week. Not sure what happened with the texting, but how does next week sound?"

Personally I would leave out the "not sure what happened" - I might say:

"Hey Sally, I know you said you wanted to play tennis. This week isn't working out all that well but I could do next Saturday, want to get together?"

Or something like that...

[poppyfields]

24 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Of course I've heard of that movie, but have never seen it. I understand exactly what you're saying though and I'd love to meet women in real life. I couldn't find any before this virus and I certainly can't now. I'm trying to do virtual speed dating but they keep cancelling the events due to not having enough people. If there was a way I could spend time with women in real life and get to know them I'd love to do it.

This woman did respond twice in the sense that she swiped right and she sent me something. Of course that something was the bare minimum and not very promising.

Aside from the basic "checkbox" items I already mentioned I like her smile, body type, and that she has pictures with her family and pets. She says she's lived in some of the same areas as me, has many of the same hobbies, and says she wants someone family oriented, honest, and down to earth. She also says she is looking for marriage, whereas most profiles will say "dating".She actually wrote something fairly long for bumble.

Most profiles will also have things that are deal breakers or not even write anything. Sometimes what they do say is some kind of generic phrase.

I swipe right on every profile that looks remotely interesting and like there'd be any chance. Yet I just don't get any matches.

Oh max, I'm really feelin for ya here, I'm sorry this is happening, truly.  ((Hugs)) I mean that.  

I know we've all been kinda hard on you, and I must say, you're handing it well, and there is something to be said for that.  

I don't know what to say anymore, except keep going?  It really is a numbers game.  

I've told told this story before, not on this forum but others; many years back I read about this one guy on match.com who met 80 women!  And nothing. 

But he kept going and the 81st woman he met, it was a match!  Married her a year later.

Another true story of a woman who met 300 men!  After 3 years/300 men, she met her guy and they are still together and very happy!

So just keep going.  Try to not let it get you down, everyone struggles with OLD. 

Maybe easier said than done, but you're not even 40 yet.   There is plenty of time.  

Keep us posted! 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by poppyfields

[rjc149]

34 minutes ago, max3732 said:

Like I said my body isn't exactly at its peak right now. I'd really like to stop my stomach from sticking out.

You've got your work cut out for you then. This is a no-brainer. And this should really be a priority in general, not just for dating.

[Fresh_Start]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

I'm debating sending her something next week if I don't hear back. Nothing that requires too much effort. Maybe something like "Hope you weren't planning on leaving me with the sound of 1 hand clapping"

At this point you've already sent her three messages without getting a response so what do you think a fourth message will do?   

You probably could have recovered from accidentally sending the Joey gif if you'd followed it up with something witty about having done so.  "Looks like Joey doesn't break character even on Bumble.  One look at an attractive woman and he was already on his way to your inbox before I had a chance to compose a message.  Can you believe the nerve of this guy??  So...how you doin'?"

And I know next to nothing about Friends because it wasn't a show I watched regularly so I'm sure there are better examples than that based on your knowledge of the show and the character.  The point is, by staying laid back and confident even little slip ups don't have to be deal breakers.   

Acknowledge your gaffe, laugh it off, and learn from it.  We all make mistakes, but what matters is what we learn from them and how we bounce back from them.  You'll do better next time.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Fresh_Start

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

Seems like maybe a shirtless pic in the right context would be ok. Like kayaking at swimming. ...

Split the difference, no need to be shirtless but a wet shirt hugging your body...your just trying to give them an idea of how in shape you are.  Bare skin is not required to get the idea across.

[Fresh_Start]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

Another true story of a woman who met 300 men! 

Gorgo, the Queen of Sparta?  Heard that one already.  

[chillii]

6 hours ago, max3732 said:

I think that I'm getting frustrated and discouraged after some recent matches where I attempted to be myself and didn't want to mess this one up since it's the 1st Bumble match in a while and it seemed so promising. I've had some matches on Bumble where we've both swiped right and then she didn't send me anything and it expired. Then I keep getting messages saying if I pay it will bring it back for 24 hours.

What really got me upset was the Match that messaged me that we should play tennis. We sent messages back and forth and she says she wants to play this week. She lives right by a court, but that's 35 min away and I'm concerned about the virus and don't know what kinds of procedures they have. I went to the court nearby and checked it out and I was satisfied. So I ask if she can play at a court like 25 min from her and 15 from me. She says yes she and she is looking forward to playing this week. Then I say can you play in the morning and get nothing back. A few days later after I talked to some people who have played at the court next to her I tell her I can play there and how about Wednesday? No response. Then I check the app and she unmatched me although I still have her number. I'd been talking to her for weeks and she's just gone?

On top of that most of the Hinge matches fell apart. One woman was after a green card, another said she only wanted someone that was willing to do missionary work overseas. Yet another is moving to the area and said she wants someone to show her around.

Just being myself on these messages has caused me to get almost nothing back on Match and Eharmony and still be alone. 

You're absolutely right I was too attached on this one. Aside from the frustration of the tennis one I just mentioned that was fresh in my mind this Bumble match looks like someone I let get away and I didn't want that to happen again. It's not just the checklist items, but I really like what she wrote in her profile.

What do you mean what am I about besides hobbies? My values, personality, sense of humor? Is there something different you're thinking I should put in my profile or messages?

I did shorten my profile considerably and what I sent her was very short. 

I was also frustrated because I'm working on a very important, long term deal that's very complicated for work and yet I'm struggling to make sense of all these emojis or little text messages. I miss actually being able to talk to people face to face and over a longer period so you could get to know them.

 

Ahhh , wouldn't worry about any of them too much , it seems so  date site bs, everyone seems to get all the same crap. Probably wouldn't of mattered what you said anyway they probably still would've went the same. lt is a shame about that latest though as it's so rare to find someone like that but really , l'd be thinking same again, she probably would've gone sth anyway for one reason or another, put it down to not meant to be.   The tennis one yeah well obviously you should've just gone with thee first idea and her court , too much back forth later buttttt, again if it was gonna happen it probably would've anyway so if that's all it took well. Seems most of these people just bs about on those sites , really , but when something does come a long they shyt it over the pettiest of things and look for outs.

Maybe take a break man do that project for awhile,  if nothing comes of your favorite .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by chillii

[basil67]

6 hours ago, max3732 said:

We sent messages back and forth and she says she wants to play this week. She lives right by a court, but that's 35 min away and I'm concerned about the virus and don't know what kinds of procedures they have. I went to the court nearby and checked it out and I was satisfied. So I ask if she can play at a court like 25 min from her and 15 from me.

Max, I don't think you did yourself any favours here.  It sounds like you checked out her court procedures and found it was acceptable to you, so why ask her to a different court which was further away from home?    If you don't want to drive 35 mins, why ask her to drive 25 mins?   There's not much difference in time.  

Basically, she offered a plan and you changed it to something similar but more convenient to you for unfathomable reasons.  I suspect she walked because she felt you'd be too much hard work.

[balletomane]

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Max, I don't think you did yourself any favours here.  It sounds like you checked out her court procedures and found it was acceptable to you, so why ask her to a different court which was further away from home?    If you don't want to drive 35 mins, why ask her to drive 25 mins?   There's not much difference in time.  

Basically, she offered a plan and you changed it to something similar but more convenient to you for unfathomable reasons.  I suspect she walked because she felt you'd be too much hard work.

I picked up on this too. It seemed odd. Max, sometimes your posts give the impression that you're sabotaging yourself. A prospective date comes along who seems very family-oriented and someone who would be worth meeting, but you back out because she has kids. Another woman wants to play tennis, but you don't simply accept her invitation, you start rearranging and reorganizing things. On some unconscious level, you're getting in your own way.

[CaliforniaGirl]

46 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Split the difference, no need to be shirtless but a wet shirt hugging your body...your just trying to give them an idea of how in shape you are.  Bare skin is not required to get the idea across.

Okay...now you're talkin'... 😁