My opening message on Bumble after she sent me an emoji opener

[smackie9]

16 minutes ago, Fresh_Start said:

Am I the only man on the planet who never does coffee dates?  If I like someone enough to ask her out on a date, we're doing dinner and drinks.  No woman has ever turned that down and it's also lead to first date sex about 75% of the time, which is a win for both of us.  

In my opinion, coffee dates have about as much innate romantic chemistry as a job interview.  The only sparks I'd get from a midday date at a Starbucks would be from some pretentious tech weenie spilling his cup of jitter juice across his laptop.  Why not just meet up for a date at the public library or over a bowl of cereal?

I think everybody would have more success if they weren't afraid to go on a real date instead of conforming to the conventions of cookie cutter quickies.  Be bold and reap the rewards. 

That may work for you...most likely you have your looks that work to your advantage.

From what it really looks like out there, most guys don't want to financially invest like that because in the past they got nothing in return, and women don't like feeling obligated. A lot of women prefer a 30 min meet up, because most of the time they encounter too many weirdos, and it's easier to escape. A lot of people who use dating apps have social anxiety, and are such nervous nellies, a real date they just can't cope with. IMO meeting someone organically is a lot better than some bs on a profile and a crappy pic.

Edited July 1, 2020 by smackie9

[poppyfields]

When I did OLD, I was never a fan of coffee dates myself, and never connected with any man that way.  Boring as hell, it felt totally awkward.  

My bf and I chatted on line a little over 2 weeks prior to meet, and by then we already felt a mental connection (as much as you can feel on line).

We met at a bar, ordered a drink, and one appetizer which was placed on the bar which we both nibbled on throughout the evening.

Super relaxing and fun!  Very conducive to determining chemistry. 

He kissed me within 30 minutes!  We are still together. 

I know many people are against chatting first, but to me it was so necessary.  You can get a feel for people on line and it personally saved me a ton of time meeting men I knew I would not click in person with.

Chatting on line is free. Drinks and an app to split = $15 tops, and I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, so probably less than that in other cities. 

Hardly what I would call a "financial investment."

 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by poppyfields

[Fresh_Start]

3 hours ago, smackie9 said:

That may work for you...most likely you have your looks that work to your advantage.

From what it really looks like out there, most guys don't want to financially invest like that because in the past they got nothing in return, and women don't like feeling obligated. A lot of women prefer a 30 min meet up, because most of the time they encounter too many weirdos, and it's easier to escape. A lot of people who use dating apps have social anxiety, and are such nervous nellies, a real date they just can't cope with. IMO meeting someone organically is a lot better than some bs on a profile and a crappy pic.

It's more about confidence and personality.  There are plenty of GQ model types who have about as much personality as a wet sock. 

I don't mind "financially investing" a little bit into having a good time with good food and good company.  It's rare that my first dates haven't been a success and for those that weren't, I didn't think of it as getting nothing in return. I still had the opportunity to go out and enjoy a nice meal and a drink or two with someone I was interested in.  If the chemistry wasn't there on a romantic level I can still carry on a conversation without any awkwardness the same way I do with a client, colleague, friend, or family member.  For those gals, an obligatory hug afterwards before we parted ways did not at all mean the evening was a waste for me. 

I also never got the sense that they felt "obligated".  By the time we went out on a date we'd already built enough rapport and chemistry in person or with a phone call that meeting up for dinner and drinks was a very natural and exciting next step.  Maybe that's the other thing I do differently in having a good old fashioned conversation before asking them out on a date.  Sometimes those conversations lasted for more than an hour so that we'd developed a level of comfort that couldn't be established with a cursory exchange of texts and messages.  By then, they were pretty well assured that I wasn't a stick in the mud.  

Edited July 1, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
member request

[max3732]

3 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

All those reasons I have to say, are very selfish and all about you..  For a guy wanting to make a good impression and whose main strength that I can tell is being a supposed nice guy and very earnest about wanting a relationship, your actions and what they should be on this instance alone are at odds.  

The benefit of a nice guy is that he is NICE and a gentlemen.  If you are too neurotic that you are getting in your own way, what is she getting out of it exactly?  You aren't spontaneous, you struggle to be cool or charming or funny (sorry, i'm just being real).  If being nice and responsible, ie follows through is your thing that you offer, you can't negate your main strength with all this neuroses.

I don't know why the rest of my initial statement cut off.

If the point #1 had finished I was going to say When I saw that and that COVID cases were exploding in my area I didn't feel right making her ride in an uber and risk being in a car with someone and risk getting infected.

With #(2)The place I initially suggested I play all the time and is 20 minutes away. The place contacted her again to play is 35 minutes away and I'm not that familiar with. That's why I was initially reluctant to go there and when I offered to go there after she had agreed to meet me further away I was thinking of her.

My point with both of those was that when I changed the plans I was changing them to accommodate her. Like I said before initially I made the plans where I did because I knew it was safe (for both of us) from riots or the virus and it wasn't terribly far for either us and I was comfortable there and didn't think I'd be nervous. You're absolutely right about everything I struggle with.

All of this is a bit a mute point tough... Last night I called her and left a message saying that this week didn't workout but how about next week? 

She responded with a text saying that she was actually about to contact me since she wanted to play tonight! I asked about next week and she said she'd love to and just let her know when. When I saw her text I almost fell out of my chair. I thought she was a goner. Maybe making an actual phone call paid off.

The reason I didn't do it tonight is that I actually am working on a large deal and am exhausted today, that I'd already made plans to play tonight and tomorrow, and I didn't want to be wishy washy about being available this week.

The question now is where and when to play next week.

[max3732]

2 hours ago, Fresh_Start said:

It's more about confidence and personality.  There are plenty of GQ model types who have about as much personality as a wet sock. 

I don't mind the "financial investment" because it's just the cost of doing business, to continue with the analogy.  It's rare that my first dates haven't been a success and for those that weren't, I didn't think of it afterwards as not getting a return on my investment.  I still had the opportunity to go out and enjoy a nice meal and a drink or two with someone I was interested in.  If the chemistry wasn't there on a romantic level I can still carry on a conversation without any awkwardness the same way I do with a client, colleague, friend, or family member.  For those gals, an obligatory hug afterwards before we parted ways did not at all mean the evening was a waste for me. 

I also never got the sense that they felt "obligated".  By the time we went out on a date we'd already built enough rapport and chemistry in person or with a phone call that meeting up for dinner and drinks was a very natural and exciting next step.  Maybe that's the other thing I do differently in having a good old fashioned conversation before asking them out on a date.  Sometimes those conversations lasted for more than an hour so that we'd developed a level of comfort that couldn't be established with a cursory exchange of texts and messages.  By then, they were pretty well assured that I wasn't a stick in the mud.  

How'd you go from chatting to having sex 75% of the time? I really struggle with trying to initiate any kind of physical contact without being awkward and going for a kiss was a big deal. Especially with a dinner date you've got the table between you the whole time.

[smackie9]

2 hours ago, Fresh_Start said:

It's more about confidence and personality.  There are plenty of GQ model types who have about as much personality as a wet sock. 

I don't mind the "financial investment" because it's just the cost of doing business, to continue with the analogy.  It's rare that my first dates haven't been a success and for those that weren't, I didn't think of it afterwards as not getting a return on my investment.  I still had the opportunity to go out and enjoy a nice meal and a drink or two with someone I was interested in.  If the chemistry wasn't there on a romantic level I can still carry on a conversation without any awkwardness the same way I do with a client, colleague, friend, or family member.  For those gals, an obligatory hug afterwards before we parted ways did not at all mean the evening was a waste for me. 

I also never got the sense that they felt "obligated".  By the time we went out on a date we'd already built enough rapport and chemistry in person or with a phone call that meeting up for dinner and drinks was a very natural and exciting next step.  Maybe that's the other thing I do differently in having a good old fashioned conversation before asking them out on a date.  Sometimes those conversations lasted for more than an hour so that we'd developed a level of comfort that couldn't be established with a cursory exchange of texts and messages.  By then, they were pretty well assured that I wasn't a stick in the mud.  

Like I said, you have that advantage that so few men have...that's why it comes to without any real effort for you. The majority not so much.

[poppyfields]

34 minutes ago, max3732 said:

How'd you go from chatting to having sex 75% of the time? I really struggle with trying to initiate any kind of physical contact without being awkward and going for a kiss was a big deal. Especially with a dinner date you've got the table between you the whole time.

When there is a genuine chemistry and energy going on, trust me there is a way!    She moves to your side of the table or you move to hers, again it's not about how many boxes she checks off your checklist, it's about feeling a genuine chemistry, and if/when you're feeling that, it all becomes very easy and natural.  

My bf and I were at the bar munching on apps, we were totally clicking!  I was not determing how many boxes he checked, hell I didn't and never had such a checklist.  Seems very shallow to me. 

Within 30 minutes he kissed me, and it was the most natural thing in the world. 

Have you ever felt that with a woman?  

Edited July 1, 2020 by poppyfields

[Versacehottie]

46 minutes ago, max3732 said:

I don't know why the rest of my initial statement cut off.

If the point #1 had finished I was going to say When I saw that and that COVID cases were exploding in my area I didn't feel right making her ride in an uber and risk being in a car with someone and risk getting infected.

With #(2)The place I initially suggested I play all the time and is 20 minutes away. The place contacted her again to play is 35 minutes away and I'm not that familiar with. That's why I was initially reluctant to go there and when I offered to go there after she had agreed to meet me further away I was thinking of her.

My point with both of those was that when I changed the plans I was changing them to accommodate her. Like I said before initially I made the plans where I did because I knew it was safe (for both of us) from riots or the virus and it wasn't terribly far for either us and I was comfortable there and didn't think I'd be nervous. You're absolutely right about everything I struggle with.

All of this is a bit a mute point tough... Last night I called her and left a message saying that this week didn't workout but how about next week? 

She responded with a text saying that she was actually about to contact me since she wanted to play tonight! I asked about next week and she said she'd love to and just let her know when. When I saw her text I almost fell out of my chair. I thought she was a goner. Maybe making an actual phone call paid off.

The reason I didn't do it tonight is that I actually am working on a large deal and am exhausted today, that I'd already made plans to play tonight and tomorrow, and I didn't want to be wishy washy about being available this week.

The question now is where and when to play next week.

all i can say to all that stuff about changing the place is that if it's not very clear here, perhaps you were not very clear with her.  If you are changing to accommodate her and make things more convenient and safer for her, make sure you express it (and get the credit).  If it's for you, even you BOTH, you better make sure there is no inkling that she can figure out those are your reasons--it's a complete turnoff.

Anyway, so happy that she responded.  I think all that commented including myself said don't call her.  So somehow you let your own instincts take over with nothing to lose (oh sorry, i think 1 guy, maybe sum guy said to call).. Which maybe says you should trust your own instincts more--even if they fail you sometimes, the confidence of believing in yourself is a big plus

Ok ready for more critique.  You needed to seize the moment.  I get it that you can't do it today but you should have planned for tomorrow at the latest.  You have an opportunity to appear more spontaneous and you miss it entirely.  All you needed to do is accept the invite or make it as close in time to when you can. I think you are underestimating how valuable it would be to convey some semblance of this.  It's inherently more fun, good momentum--which will make up for when you are not like that so much. Declining because you have a big deal at work, makes you look important at work and ambitious.  Postponing until next week a simple playing tennis invite, reads as uptight, etc.  You can convey your personality and positive aspects through how you manage your actions.  So you are going to play with some guys instead of her when a finding a girlfriend is top of your list?  Especially this one who has similar interests and seems open to dating you and that you are also into.  It's crazy.  Ok, well good luck

Edited July 1, 2020 by Versacehottie

[max3732]

35 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

all i can say to all that stuff about changing the place is that if it's not very clear here, perhaps you were not very clear with her.  If you are changing to accommodate her and make things more convenient and safer for her, make sure you express it (and get the credit).  If it's for you, even you BOTH, you better make sure there is no inkling that she can figure out those are your reasons--it's a complete turnoff.

Anyway, so happy that she responded.  I think all that commented including myself said don't call her.  So somehow you let your own instincts take over with nothing to lose (oh sorry, i think 1 guy, maybe sum guy said to call).. Which maybe says you should trust your own instincts more--even if they fail you sometimes, the confidence of believing in yourself is a big plus

Ok ready for more critique.  You needed to seize the moment.  I get it that you can't do it today but you should have planned for tomorrow at the latest.  You have an opportunity to appear more spontaneous and you miss it entirely.  All you needed to do is accept the invite or make it as close in time to when you can. I think you are underestimating how valuable it would be to convey some semblance of this.  It's inherently more fun, good momentum--which will make up for when you are not like that so much. Declining because you have a big deal at work, makes you look important at work and ambitious.  Postponing until next week a simple playing tennis invite, reads as uptight, etc.  You can convey your personality and positive aspects through how you manage your actions.  So you are going to play with some guys instead of her when a finding a girlfriend is top of your list?  Especially this one who has similar interests and seems open to dating you and that you are also into.  It's crazy.  Ok, well good luck

Believe me, I was very tempted to do it tonight anyway, but I am so tired I can barely stay awake now. I just cancelled the tennis tonight. The only reason I was considering doing it is because even if I'm really tired it doesn't matter with the guys.

Tomorrow morning I have a private lesson that I can't cancel and my legs are shot after it, especially since I've been exercising every day this week. I don't know how good she is, but if she's at all competent I won't be able to move if we play.

I could invite her for Friday, but wouldn't that seem like I'm changing my mind again and not come across as confident? Won't it also come across like I have nothing going on if I invite her to play on Friday night at the start of a long weekend? I didn't give her a reason why I couldn't play today. Hopefully when we meet in person I can mention that I had a big deal at work. Seems like she'd rather play during the week than the weekend.

What do you think if I text her in the morning sometime next week about playing in the evening? 

[SumGuy]

2 hours ago, max3732 said:

How'd you go from chatting to having sex 75% of the time? I really struggle with trying to initiate any kind of physical contact without being awkward and going for a kiss was a big deal. Especially with a dinner date you've got the table between you the whole time.

It really depends on the women you are going for and what you are after.   Depending on person and setting going for a first kiss in a public place can be a no go, if you do you really need to be side-by-side....once reason I like this arrangement but there was a whole thread on tat at one point     Now if it is hot or stuffy one can invite her out to get some air.  You really have to gauge this stuff though, a woman who is up for it usually is also looking for an excuse to get you in a kissable place. 

Myself, usually when walking her back to her car when the night is done...I try very very hard not to do first date sex though...from my experience it just comes with too m any complications...I'd rather wait until at least date three...and it did drive some women crazy making them wait  (me too).  

You really have to judge the situation and be aware of what the woman is like you are after.

These days, especially if you are high risk, expressing you would really like to kiss here but uncertain in these uncertain times, what does she think?...could be golden.  I would not be above using COVID-19 as a cover for uncertainty....it's also kind of true.

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, max3732 said:

...

I could invite her for Friday, but wouldn't that seem like I'm changing my mind again and not come across as confident? Won't it also come across like I have nothing going on if I invite her to play on Friday night at the start of a long weekend? I didn't give her a reason why I couldn't play today. Hopefully when we meet in person I can mention that I had a big deal at work. Seems like she'd rather play during the week than the weekend.

What do you think if I text her in the morning sometime next week about playing in the evening? 

If you said next week, keep it next week.  I'd propose a place, date and time tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest.  Momentum.  On date,do Monday or a Tuesday don't let it wait.  Yous could also propose a time Monday and one Tuesday as you realize the holiday could interfere with Monday.  

Morning or evening, guess it depends on what you have in mind after and how you like to pace things.  Morning gives you the chance to do lunch after, evening give you a chance to do a drink after.   Yet COVID-19 could mess that all up.

[Fresh_Start]

18 hours ago, max3732 said:

How'd you go from chatting to having sex 75% of the time? I really struggle with trying to initiate any kind of physical contact without being awkward and going for a kiss was a big deal. Especially with a dinner date you've got the table between you the whole time.

It all starts with confidence.  Supreme confidence.  The type of confidence that probably can't be taught.  There are things you can do to improve your self-confidence though even if you never quite reach that level.  It starts by setting and achieving goals, overcoming obstacles, and trying new things that you've never done before -- things that might even put your own fears to the test as you go outside your comfort zone.  Every time you achieve a goal, set the bar a little bit higher and then achieve that one too.  As you continue to get to know yourself -- your strengths, your talents, etc., pat yourself on the back for them.  Learn to love yourself and the awesome person that you are becoming as you achieve your goals and develop a heightened sense of self-awareness. 

You mentioned somewhere in this thread that you weren't happy about your appearance -- something about the way your stomach protrudes, if I recall correctly.  That can be your first goal: losing the gut and improving your physique.  While I could give you an entire weight training and diet regimen to follow (without any cheesy infomercials), it would go well beyond the scope of this post and turn it into a cumbersome novel while straying from the main point in the process.  With regards to your physique, set both a long term goal and a short term goal.  Your long term goal will be what you envision to be your ideal physique.  Your short term goal will be each and every step that you have to take in order to achieve that long term goal: the necessary changes to your diet, the commitment to that diet, a commitment to a weight lifting regimen, and an intelligent approach to cardiovascular exercise (too much will rob you of important muscular gains and leave you with an undesirable "skinny fat" physique).  Track your daily progress, weekly progress, and monthly progress.  

The same basic principle applies to other goals that you can set for yourself.  Eventually you'll want to be setting goals that are borderline unrealistic, but because you've become so confident along the way you know you'll achieve those too.  Welcome to the new you.  

Now to answer your question with some more specifics beyond the basics:

I have a great personality.  I'm funny, intelligent, a great conversationalist, witty, charming, flirty, and just all around bad ass.  The latter is said in a playfully cocky way, not arrogantly.  There is a world of difference between being playfully cocky and arrogant.  Because of that, I can get away with saying almost anything including cheesy "pick up artist" types of things that no man with any good sense would ever dare to use.  In college, my fraternity brothers used to ask me "How do you get away with saying stuff like that to chicks without getting slapped or having drinks thrown in your face?"  My answer was the same then as it is now: Because it's not so much what you say, but how you say it.  It's all in the delivery, whether it's flirty, witty, charming, or cheesy.  Cheese is one that you can really have fun with if you're at a level of confidence where you're completely comfortable with the fact that the laugh you just got is 50% at what you said and 50% at you.  Then you just sit there with a crooked little half-grin on your face, completely unfazed by it because it's all in good fun and part of your charm.  

You build attraction over the course of an evening, which is part of the reason why I do the dinner dates because they give me more time to build that attraction in addition to getting to know the woman better.  There is no time limit on these dates.  They end when the sex is over and I'm driving home or she is -- or in the morning if it's a sleepover.  There's subtle touch, whether it's sliding your foot next to hers under the table, a caress of the back of the hand or down the side of her face to move away a stray hair (situational), or my personal favorite which is sliding into the seat next to her at some point to show her pictures in your phone (or have her show you pictures).  The latter there typically opens the door to other subtle contact.  You can literally feel the heat of her desire as she's snug up against you and practically smell the pheromones.  Lastly...

"Assume the sale".  This is a very basic sales principle that every business owner and salesman has been taught on day 1 of their entry level sales training course.  The basic gist of it is that you assume the desired outcome from the start so that everything you do and say throughout the evening is just a natural progression to inviting her back to your place.  There are no nerves, there isn't a moment's hesitation, and it's as natural as asking her for her name.  

Now if I can just have your full name and credit card number, we can get this bill out of the way.

Edited July 2, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[basil67]

7 hours ago, max3732 said:

(1)She didn't suggest any particular location. Just that she wanted to play tennis.

But earlier, you wrote " We sent messages back and forth and she says she wants to play this week. She lives right by a court, but that's 35 min away and I'm concerned about the virus and don't know what kinds of procedures they have. I went to the court nearby and checked it out and I was satisfied. So I ask if she can play at a court like 25 min from her and 15 from me."

I thought that the court near her was her suggestion.   It wasn't?

[CaliforniaGirl]

9 hours ago, Fresh_Start said:

Am I the only man on the planet who never does coffee dates?  If I like someone enough to ask her out on a date, we're doing dinner and drinks.  No woman has ever turned that down and it's also lead to first date sex about 75% of the time, which is a win for both of us.  

In my opinion, coffee dates have about as much innate romantic chemistry as a job interview.  The only sparks I'd get from a midday date at a Starbucks would be from some pretentious tech weenie spilling his cup of jitter juice across his laptop.  Why not just meet up for a date at the public library or over a bowl of cereal?

I think everybody would have more success if they weren't afraid to go on a real date instead of conforming to the conventions of cookie cutter quickies.  Be bold and reap the rewards. 

Dinner plus drinks is a bit of a "lockdown," you can't really get up from dinner and leave if you and your date turn out to have zero chemistry or if he or she says or does something that sours the whole thing. Coffee is great because it can be as quick as you want it to be, you can get up and say "got to go, great to meet you" at any point, OR you can keep it going...get another cup...or walk around town outside of the coffee shop together.

Plus...dinner and drinks...it's more expensive...I don't know...there would often be this "fight for the bill" when I dated, usually the man would insist, and whether this seems fair or not, I know I'm not the only one who feels this way...we women can sometimes feel pretty guilty if a guy has spent the time, spent the money and we're just not feeling it. Coffee...well, you've wasted $4.75 and half an hour if things are really bad, or really not wasted anything at all from the POV of just getting out, having fun, talking with someone, etc.

Now, drinks rather than coffee...the idea is, she's going to get tipsy, loosen up...I want my faculties about me when I meet a complete stranger for the first time.  I don't want to be warmed up into going to his car or...whatever. Just sayin'. Women do think about safety probably more so than men.

I can't believe you've never had a romantic coffee date. Really? I can see it not being as intense, per se, as sitting across a table from one another knowing you need to keep things going for at least the time it takes to order, get the meal, eat and then pay the bill. But "more romantic," not necessarily.

Just my input as a woman.

Edited July 2, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[max3732]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

But earlier, you wrote " We sent messages back and forth and she says she wants to play this week. She lives right by a court, but that's 35 min away and I'm concerned about the virus and don't know what kinds of procedures they have. I went to the court nearby and checked it out and I was satisfied. So I ask if she can play at a court like 25 min from her and 15 from me."

I thought that the court near her was her suggestion.   It wasn't?

No, it was mine. At first when she suggested playing tennis and I thought about playing near her, but was concerned for the reasons I mentioned and wasn't even sure about playing near me. After checking out the place near me and feeling that it was safe I asked if she could play there. She said she could do it, but that she'd have to take an uber there. 

That made me feel guilty about having her take an uber with the virus picking up steam again and by the fact she lives so close to other courts. So I investigated further and thought I could play at the court near her. That's why I sent her another text saying I could play at the court by her if that's more convenient. I didn't hear back from her until today.

[Mystery4u]

14 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Dinner plus drinks is a bit of a "lockdown," you can't really get up from dinner and leave if you and your date turn out to have zero chemistry or if he or she says or does something that sours the whole thing. Coffee is great because it can be as quick as you want it to be, you can get up and say "got to go, great to meet you" at any point, OR you can keep it going...get another cup...or walk around town outside of the coffee shop together.

Plus...dinner and drinks...it's more expensive...I don't know...there would often be this "fight for the bill" when I dated, usually the man would insist, and whether this seems fair or not, I know I'm not the only one who feels this way...we women can sometimes feel pretty guilty if a guy has spent the time, spent the money and we're just not feeling it. Coffee...well, you've wasted $4.75 and half an hour if things are really bad, or really not wasted anything at all from the POV of just getting out, having fun, talking with someone, etc.

Now, drinks rather than coffee...the idea is, she's going to get tipsy, loosen up...I want my faculties about me when I meet a complete stranger for the first time.  I don't want to be warmed up into going to his car or...whatever. Just sayin'. Women do think about safety probably more so than men.

I can't believe you've never had a romantic coffee date. Really? I can see it not being as intense, per se, as sitting across a table from one another knowing you need to keep things going for at least the time it takes to order, get the meal, eat and then pay the bill. But "more romantic," not necessarily.

Just my input as a woman.

That's a very negative and pessimistic way of looking at it. I have never in my life had a coffee date either and never would. Not only because I don't like the taste (unless it's an ice cold coffee) but because it's just way too casual. Always a dinner date, and I go there with the mindset that it will be a great night with great conversation getting to know each other, rather than wondering what are the possible ways to leave if it doesn't. Have a bit more confidence.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Mystery4u

[Fresh_Start]

19 minutes ago, Mystery4u said:

That's a very negative and pessimistic way of looking at it. I have never in my life had a coffee date either and never would. Not only because I don't like the taste (unless it's an ice cold coffee) but because it's just way too casual. Always a dinner date, and I go there with the mindset that it will be a great night with great conversation getting to know each other, rather than wondering what are the possible ways to leave if it doesn't. Have a bit more confidence.

^This.

Also @CaliforniaGirl, this was my follow up reply to smackie9 that elaborates on my mindset a little bit:

And if you'd like, I can address each of your points just to prove how wrong you are.   Mystery4u summed it up concisely though.  

Edited July 2, 2020 by Fresh_Start
edited quote

[Versacehottie]

4 hours ago, max3732 said:

Believe me, I was very tempted to do it tonight anyway, but I am so tired I can barely stay awake now. I just cancelled the tennis tonight. The only reason I was considering doing it is because even if I'm really tired it doesn't matter with the guys.

Tomorrow morning I have a private lesson that I can't cancel and my legs are shot after it, especially since I've been exercising every day this week. I don't know how good she is, but if she's at all competent I won't be able to move if we play.

I could invite her for Friday, but wouldn't that seem like I'm changing my mind again and not come across as confident? Won't it also come across like I have nothing going on if I invite her to play on Friday night at the start of a long weekend? I didn't give her a reason why I couldn't play today. Hopefully when we meet in person I can mention that I had a big deal at work. Seems like she'd rather play during the week than the weekend.

What do you think if I text her in the morning sometime next week about playing in the evening? 

AGHHHH!!! bolded, why not??? like i said, your "brand" as far as I can tell in the pro column happens to be "nice guy" and "got your stuff together with work doing big deals",  Um, that is info that you should definitely insert immediately about the deal because it relates to why you can't go! It also provides a measure of reassurance because if she is sweet and has now tried twice to meet up with you to be met with a bunch of baloney, or so it seems, so you missed a chance to show her you are a good guy.  These are the kind of things that I mean about take your opportunities to express who you are or perhaps you won't get a chance to meet her or just in general a relationship will get the plug pulled before you get a chance to "tell" her these things. It doesn't have to be all formal.  It's just life and relates to exactly what you are talking about!  You can expand on the deal when you meet each other but I would say that guys working on deals is pretty hot-much like shirtless selfies--it's an angle that you should have worked and it fell into your lap.

Idk, if i would switch it up.  What i would do now that you've got yourself in this conundrum is keep texting her a bit and if she gives you an opening to, sure throw out something spontaneous.  I wouldn't leave texting her until next week.  I think with all that you've done you should show some interest to keep her on the hook.   Let the plans unfold as you are texting.  I don't know---lots of people aren't going anywhere because of COVID if you are texting her you should be able to gauge if she is going anywhere.  You can just ask--"excited for the holiday? what do you have planned" . Better worded but that is the gist.  If she tells you nothing, you have a chance to bond with her over that and then you can throw out the friday night thing. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

27 minutes ago, Fresh_Start said:

^This.

Also @CaliforniaGirl, this was my follow up reply to smackie9 that elaborates on my mindset a little bit:

And if you'd like, I can address each of your points just to prove how wrong you are.   Mystery4u summed it up concisely though.  

No, it's fine. I mean it seemed to work out for me, I never lacked dates, I'm married so I don't need dating tips. I'm good.

What worked for you won't work for everyone, though. A lot of the guys here just won't have that "supreme confidence," etc., not every guy is like the personas people show here. And not every woman is like me, but isn't this the point? One set of "rules" just won't work for every guy...or every woman.

But...coffee dates...of course they can work. If not, literally nobody would go on them. You wondered why anyone would choose coffee dates. I answered.

I'm stating how I see things, you can try to refute that this is how I see things 😆 but I don't really know how you'll be able to prove that. 😆 Unless you're psychic too? Many women I know like to start out more casual...so...you can  say it's incorrect but...it's not. Not sure why it would be important to try to prove this isn't true? If there's anything guys need around here it's more casual. They're stressed as it is.

It doesn't all boil down to one single unfailable formula. Your way *can* work...so can mine. It's about people being individuals...if one set of Guy Rules worked for everyone there would be no lonely guys.

Edited July 2, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[CaliforniaGirl]

OMG OP. Do NOT start switching days or whatever at this point. You said next week. If you're suddenly available this weekend after all she'll figure you're full of it. Just stick with the plan.

Tell her: "Sounds good. How about Tuesday? Court blah-blah?"

Simple, to the point. Please for the love of God, no more waffling. 😂😂😂 If she comes back with "I'd rather do the other court," "Great! I can do that. See you Tuesday. Bring your A-game!"

Keep it simple!

Edited July 2, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl
Autocorrects that make me look illiterate.

[CaliforniaGirl]

45 minutes ago, Mystery4u said:

That's a very negative and pessimistic way of looking at it. I have never in my life had a coffee date either and never would. Not only because I don't like the taste (unless it's an ice cold coffee) but because it's just way too casual. Always a dinner date, and I go there with the mindset that it will be a great night with great conversation getting to know each other, rather than wondering what are the possible ways to leave if it doesn't. Have a bit more confidence.

And is this successful for you?

If it is, then great. Coffee dates worked for me, I felt very comfortable and able to talk and open up. Had dinner dates too, movies, concert...whatever. But I always loved casual + fun best. Not sure why everyone is freaking out about the coffee thing. 😂 If you hate them them don't set them up. They're not required or anything.

As for the OP, they're playing tennis. Not sure that's all that sexy either compared to dinner and drinks but she texted him back, that's what she wants.

Isn't weird how all women are different? Not a hive mind? I know...crazy.

Edited July 2, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Versacehottie]

i forgot to say, have you given any thought to working on practicing picking up on social cues and other socialization? I know I keep bringing it up but I think it's important so you don't freeze up with girls that really matter to you.  

Look at it this way: if you get more practice with socialization in general and being charming in your way, it will be a little hop when you are on a date with a girl you like when your nerves are going to be full on--vs. a huge insurmountable leap off a cliff without practice.  I don't know what research to direct you too because it's out there everywhere--it's basically a pillar of good interpersonal communication and psychology. But you can apply it the same in sports: you can't serve let's say at 150mph without first doing it at 90mph--everything you want to be better at in life takes practice, especially if it is a skill that does not come naturally. 

[Fresh_Start]

8 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Buti...coffee dates...of course they can work. If not literally nobody would go on them.

I'm sure that many failed coffee dates would have succeeded if both parties to the date had been a little more confident and a little more willing to go on a real date.  There were a couple of times that I recall where a woman I was talking to suggested the stale and boring, universally accepted cookie cutter coffee date and both times they ended up going out to dinner with me instead.  I have been on one coffee date in my life and that was enough for me to decide that it wasn't my cup of tea (pun intended).

14 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I'm stating how I see things, you can try to refute that this is how I see things 😆 but I don't really know how you'll be able to prove that. 😆

...so...you can  say it's incorrect but...it's not. Not sure why it would be important to try to prove this isn't true?

Come on now, Daenerys.  We've participated in enough threads together by now and interacted enough for you to have a reasonably good idea about how I operate.  You saw my wink after making that comment about addressing each of your points individually just to prove how wrong you are.  Wink = I'm kidding/teasing.  Most of the time.

I do disagree with your thought processes and approach, but it doesn't mean that you're unequivocally wrong and I'm right.  It is a pessimistic and negative outlook, though, to create the kinds of mental obstacles, worries, and what ifs that you did.  It's not much different than Max overthinking and overcomplicating things.  It comes down to confidence, belief, and mindset.

28 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

if one set of Guy Rules worked for everyone there would be no lonely guys.

If one set of Guy Rules worked for everyone, I would be the billionaire selling them.

[basil67]

@max3732 thanks for clarifying about the court near her place.  I had the wrong end of the stick.  Sorry.

With your cancellation of tennis tonight, were you just playing with your mates.....or did you cancel a tennis date with the woman you're talking to?  

Also, if you've got an active date with someone, manage your prior exercise so that you can move on the date.    Thing is, you know the date is coming, so you have no excuse to have exhausted your muscles prior.   It would be the same as turning up to a date with a hangover.  

[max3732]

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

@max3732 thanks for clarifying about the court near her place.  I had the wrong end of the stick.  Sorry.

With your cancellation of tennis tonight, were you just playing with your mates.....or did you cancel a tennis date with the woman you're talking to?  

Also, if you've got an active date with someone, manage your prior exercise so that you can move on the date.    Thing is, you know the date is coming, so you have no excuse to have exhausted your muscles prior.   It would be the same as turning up to a date with a hangover.  

I'm too tired to respond to everyone now, but of course I really appreciate all the tips!

I didn't cancel a tennis date with the woman I'm talking to since she'd been ignoring me until today. If I'd known she wanted to play today I would have made it work! I was very upset since disappeared from the dating app and I thought she'd ghosted me after all the effort and time I'd put into talking to her and how promising she seemed. There's just no way I could have played tonight with her. I was supposed to play with friends but I cancelled that as well.

When I try to plan the date next week I'm definitely going to manage my exercise before that.