Anti-Masker protesters spreading the infection

[vjk]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Are laws against drinking and driving about controlling people? Genuine question.

All laws are about controlling people.   You don't follow it, you get punished?   Is this another Webster redefinition problem?

 

[QuietRiot]

You know what's amusing, scrolling through the hundreds of comments in response to a major chain store announcing them requiring masks to enter the building. lol

[Weezy1973]

28 minutes ago, vjk said:

All laws are about controlling people.   You don't follow it, you get punished?   Is this another Webster redefinition problem?

 

Yup, and do you agree that having people follow a certain behavior is for the greater good. Ex. Not drinking and driving. 
 

Just seeing if you agree that certain incentives to behave in certain ways are beneficial to society as a whole.

[major_merrick]

22 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

The only thing that validly refutes science is better science. 

I agree to a point.  Unfortunately, that better science is not going to happen or be accepted because if it doesn't fit the AGENDA it won't get funded or treated to any kind of press coverage.  Science doesn't just sprout behind the barn on its own, since somebody has to pay for it. 

16 hours ago, Piddy said:

Most states have a seatbelt law.  Do you wear your seatbelt?   I would bet Wal-Mart requires shoes to be worn in their stores.

Actually, I don't wear a seatbelt.  Unless I'm racing or doing something dangerous.  And if I wanted to walk barefoot in Walmart, I damn sure will.  But having grown up running barefoot in the street like an urchin, I like wearing boots I can kick with.  I have no problem with things that have a purpose for me.  But if they don't have a purpose for me... to hell with it.

15 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

Don't be surprised should a business owner draw a gun on someone or some kind of act of violence  that decides not to leave their business. Just sayin'. It may come to that over where you live, since the hick sheriff wont' do anything, well...business owners are going to take measures the cops won't.

I doubt Walmart is going to pull guns on anybody.  They are anti-gun these days.  And the rest of the businesses I've been in seriously don't care.  Besides, around here we assume EVERYBODY is armed.  Getting shot hassling a customer for not wearing a mask?  Not the brightest thing to do. 

8 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

... then maybe acting out against those restrictions in a way that sows seeds of contention and division at the heart of your local community isn't the wisest course of action.

The division is already there.  Might as well bring it out in the open and start figuring out who's who.  In my county, pushing back against the cities, the leftists, and the state has brought people together.  You should have seen the 4th of July celebration... 

I firmly believe that these do-nothing masks are conditioning for other stuff later on.  Forced vaccinations, microchipping, Mark of the Beast, etc....  Study the history of government to know your enemy. 

 

[Ellener]

5 hours ago, major_merrick said:

if I wanted to walk barefoot in Walmart, I damn sure will

Why?

Why would you want to?

That's not sensible.

I love our country and hate that so many people are suffering and dying around me right now.

 

 

[vjk]

19 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

Seriously????  Controlling people by requiring masks???  So then, is requiring the use of seat belts and prohibiting use of cell phones in cars.  What harm does this actually cause to anyone in terms of freedom?  I don't get what you people are actually afraid of?  It's not like any Federal or local government has told us we can't leave our homes and there are armed forces stationed all over the place.  Good lord, the paranoia over some invisible/perceived boogie man reminds me of the years when my kids were young and we had to check under the bed for monsters. 

That is so funny you put the words control and requiring in the same question? Yes. By require, you don't have choice.  The primary purpose of making laws is to control behavior. You're the one reading nefarious government conspiracies into this.  I was just pointing out the absurdity of saying laws aren't about control.

 

9 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yup, and do you agree that having people follow a certain behavior is for the greater good. Ex. Not drinking and driving. 
 

Just seeing if you agree that certain incentives to behave in certain ways are beneficial to society as a whole.

Because I disagree with most on the mask requirement, are you trying to paint me as an anarchist? I wore a mask where it makes sense, and most others do around here.  I just don't want to force it on people or have to wear it when it's obviously not needed. An example is walking my dog.  We have no option now and probably won't for years to come.

Besides being uncomfortable, here are a couple minor problems with masks popping up around here.  I see them littering the streets.  I find them in parking lots, on side walks, and even on the golf course.  Another issue is it signals a threat visually. I notice people have been far more leery of each other since wearing them.  That with other changes could lead to more social isolation and related issues.

My question isn't whether we should have laws.  It's how far do we go?  I'm not yet convinced the the numbers in Ohio justify additional mandates. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/ohio.  The projection only shows the death rate reduced by 760 between now and Nov 1. using masks. Is it reasonable to inconvenience 11.7 million people for a 17% reduction in deaths? You might have a better argument just looking at infections. That depends on the average severity of how sick people get. Ohio grossly over estimated numbers  back in March in April.   I think it was in part over estimation and because people took it seriously without the legal stick.  

I still picture the government moving very slowing on retracting the law once it's in place, unless people complain.  I doubt it would be a priority on their schedule and would rather err on safety.

 

 

[QuietRiot]

4 hours ago, Ellener said:

Why?

Why would you want to?

That's not sensible.

I love our country and hate that so many people are suffering and dying around me right now.

 

 

Just go to "People of Wal-Mart's' website, you'll see tons of that and more. lol

[Redhead14]

11 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

You know what's amusing, scrolling through the hundreds of comments in response to a major chain store announcing them requiring masks to enter the building. lol

It is kind of amusing to see the tantrums on social media.   I guess they don't put diapers on their babies either because it takes too much time and effort.  I wish the masks were effective for their verbal diarrhea. 

[Piddy]

9 hours ago, major_merrick said:

 

Actually, I don't wear a seatbelt.  Unless I'm racing or doing something dangerous.  And if I wanted to walk barefoot in Walmart, I damn sure will.  But having grown up running barefoot in the street like an urchin, I like wearing boots I can kick with.  I have no problem with things that have a purpose for me.  But if they don't have a purpose for me... to hell with it.

 

You can be the safest driver in the world and still get in a car accident with a reckless driver.  🥴   A seat belt may help, just a thought.  

 You a true blue anarchist.  You don't recognize any authority at all.  You just a non seat belt wearing,  walk barefoot in a Walmart if I want,  boots kickin, pistol toting, anarchist Mama.  Alrighty. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Piddy

[Redhead14]

1 hour ago, vjk said:

The primary purpose of making laws is to control behavior.

The primary purpose of making laws is to control behavior for the greater good and to maintain order and to protect people from others who are reckless, selfish, ignorant and/or otherwise dangerous.  Again, if you want to see and feel what government control really is, move to Hong Kong or China. 

"You're the one reading nefarious government conspiracies into this" - I just read a response from a poster that specifically mentioned MOB, microchipping, etc.  And, there have been numerous replies that mention an "agenda". 

What exactly does the government "get out" of requiring masks in terms of controlling people?

 

 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, vjk said:

Is it reasonable to inconvenience 11.7 million people for a 17% reduction in deaths? You might have a better argument just looking at infections.

Unfortunately people are going to have to be inconvenienced one way or the other. Wearing a mask is a relatively minor inconvenience compared to getting Covid, 

Where I live masks aren’t mandated, and they never were. But that’s because we flattened the curve through social distancing. Now that we’re in the process of a phased reopen, they are required only in certain spaces (medical facilities etc.).

And I’m not sure a reduction in deaths is the best way to measure whether or not masks should be mandatory. The goal, I believe is to not overwhelm hospitals with cases, so a reduction in cases in areas that are at risk of their hospitals being overwhelmed seems like a good reason to mandate mask wearing.

And lastly, let’s say the experts are wrong. Masks make no difference. In the grand scheme of things, what would that have cost anybody? 

[QuietRiot]

3 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Unfortunately people are going to have to be inconvenienced one way or the other. Wearing a mask is a relatively minor inconvenience compared to getting Covid, 

Where I live masks aren’t mandated, and they never were. But that’s because we flattened the curve through social distancing. Now that we’re in the process of a phased reopen, they are required only in certain spaces (medical facilities etc.).

And I’m not sure a reduction in deaths is the best way to measure whether or not masks should be mandatory. The goal, I believe is to not overwhelm hospitals with cases, so a reduction in cases in areas that are at risk of their hospitals being overwhelmed seems like a good reason to mandate mask wearing.

And lastly, let’s say the experts are wrong. Masks make no difference. In the grand scheme of things, what would that have cost anybody? 

The thing is, if someone doesn't die...well, there are some people have suffered days, even months through this. The ones who suffered for months, and an onslaught of on-and-off symptoms. At time they were like "Wow, I feel better" a few days later, they woke up feeling like they couldn't leave the bed. 

THis virus torments its victims...should be you be a survivor. Just ask Tom Hanks. or read testimonials of others who've had it.

[QuietRiot]

55 minutes ago, Piddy said:

You can be the safest driver in the world and still get in a car accident with a reckless driver.  🥴   A seat belt may help, just a thought.  

 You a true blue anarchist.  You don't recognize any authority at all.  You just a non seat belt wearing,  walk barefoot in a Walmart if I want,  boots kickin, pistol toting, anarchist Mama.  Alrighty. 

The more and more she describes herself, the more and more she sounds like one of the Rainbow People. lol. Of course, I don't think they have Internet access. 

[Redhead14]

Rebelling against no mask, no shirt, no bare feet rules, etc.  is about exercising freedom?    Yeah, some people are used to bare feet but I always wondered if it makes it harder outrun the "revenooers."

[Haydn]

1 hour ago, Piddy said:

You can be the safest driver in the world and still get in a car accident with a reckless driver.  🥴   A seat belt may help, just a thought.  

 You a true blue anarchist.  You don't recognize any authority at all.  You just a non seat belt wearing,  walk barefoot in a Walmart if I want,  boots kickin, pistol toting, anarchist Mama.  Alrighty. 

And the conspiracy angle she touched on.  

`I firmly believe that these do-nothing masks are conditioning for other stuff later on.  Forced vaccinations, microchipping, Mark of the Beast, etc....  Study the history of government to know your enemy. `

I mean what next, Lizard people? Just wear a mask! It is so easy.

[clia]

You're never going to get 100% of people in the US to agree to anything, so I don't see why it's so surprising that some percentage of the population doesn't want to wear a mask.  No matter what you do, no matter what you try to enforce, someone out there will have a problem with it.        

If I want to go somewhere where a mask is required, I'll wear it.  But some of the rules seems like they are there more to give people a sense of security rather than any clear benefit.  Like restaurants.  I have to wear the mask for the 15 seconds it takes the hostess to walk me to my table, or the 5 minutes to walk to and use the bathroom, but other than that I can sit there for 2-3 hours without a mask on.  It seems silly.  Or having to wear a mask when outdoors and not near anyone else.  That also seems silly.  So, I get why you have people out there rolling their eyes at some of these orders.      

I am starting to get the impression that some people think by wearing a mask they have no chance of getting COVID, and that...just isn't the case.  You may decrease your chances, and we all may be better off by wearing masks in crowded spaces, but a virus is very small and can get through your mask -- especially when a lot of people are pulling a crumpled up mask out of their pocket that they've probably worn many times without washing and putting it on only because they have to.        

[Mrin]

My home state just made masks mandatory. Though, I am in a county that mandated masks a while ago so no change.

And... Masks are even required outside on the main street of my little tourist town. 

No biggie. 

Now - here is the real reason for my post. At first we had a decent amount of objection to masks. But then the county established very clear stages (green, blue, yellow, orange and red) - we are currently in "blue". The criteria for moving between the stages is published everywhere and very easy to understand. The impact of each stage is also very easy to understand and published everywhere (e.g. crowd size, what's open and at what capacity, and of course, school). 

As soon as the county started doing this any opposition to mask-wearing went away. They sort of game-ified the pandemic and we, as a community, are laser focused on staying in blue or yellow (where we have in-person school). We have a ton of tourists from Texas so getting them to comply with masks is a challenge. But once you say "it is so we can send our kids safely to school" again, any opposition quickly goes away. 

Yeah, it is a carrot/stick approach but it seems to be working for us. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mrin

[Ellener]

53 minutes ago, Mrin said:

We have a ton of tourists from Texas so getting them to comply with masks is a challenge.

We have extended the state of emergency here in TX via the governor, everyone is sick, I am sick. 

It does feel like flu except there's chest pain. It's weird, I had pneumonia a few years ago and that's what this is like. I am sleeping all the time, and dreaming. 

Everyone was wearing the face covering last time I went out, and it's the law here, a business gets @$1000 fine for not imposing masks on customers.

 

[Kitty Tantrum]

16 hours ago, major_merrick said:

The division is already there.  Might as well bring it out in the open and start figuring out who's who.  In my county, pushing back against the cities, the leftists, and the state has brought people together.  You should have seen the 4th of July celebration... 

I firmly believe that these do-nothing masks are conditioning for other stuff later on.  Forced vaccinations, microchipping, Mark of the Beast, etc....  Study the history of government to know your enemy. 

I am a Christian, and I am also concerned, much along the same lines you are, I'd say. Maybe the difference is that you have a large established community of people who believe the way you do and are preparing thusly. I have no such thing. Not one single person in my life sees this situation the way I do.

A lot of folks who are just now  "waking up" to these ideas, if you will, are probably in a more similar situation to mine than yours (not a whole lot of immediate "allies," if you will). From my perspective, I have to advocate for moderation and discipline - and in my position, civil disobedience in the grocery store would be reckless, and would CERTAINLY make an enemy where I might have later made a friend and ally, had I instead reigned in my base-level desire to indulge in confrontational behavior because I am beginning to feel ever-so-slightly like a caged animal. I respect my neighbors when I am on their property. I respect the terms of the services I seek.

If the State tries to tell me I have to wear a mask while I'm walking down the empty sidewalk, or under any such similar circumstances, that will be another matter entirely.

When it comes to looking at masks as a potential spiritual issue, my take on it is this: 

As far as I understand it, taking the Mark of the Beast has to be voluntary. I'm not going to waste my time bickering with John Shopkeeper about mask mandates, and I'm not going to behave in ways that put undue strain on his resources in my protest against government overreach - knowing full well that means burning a bridge with an actual neighbor. I'm talking about the grocery store I walk to five times a week from my house. Business owners and employees I know by name and see all the time. People who live in houses that are close to mine and are impacted by all of the same things I am.

Allowing my fear of something that seems to be looming on the horizon (Mark of the Beast) to affect my behavior toward my neighbors, in a way that fosters contention over matters of relatively trivial material significance - that's exactly the kind of reflexive, misdirected tactical error Satan would want me to make.

[QuietRiot]

2 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

I am a Christian, and I am also concerned, much along the same lines you are, I'd say. Maybe the difference is that you have a large established community of people who believe the way you do and are preparing thusly. I have no such thing. Not one single person in my life sees this situation the way I do.

A lot of folks who are just now  "waking up" to these ideas, if you will, are probably in a more similar situation to mine than yours (not a whole lot of immediate "allies," if you will). From my perspective, I have to advocate for moderation and discipline - and in my position, civil disobedience in the grocery store would be reckless, and would CERTAINLY make an enemy where I might have later made a friend and ally, had I instead reigned in my base-level desire to indulge in confrontational behavior because I am beginning to feel ever-so-slightly like a caged animal. I respect my neighbors when I am on their property. I respect the terms of the services I seek.

If the State tries to tell me I have to wear a mask while I'm walking down the empty sidewalk, or under any such similar circumstances, that will be another matter entirely.

When it comes to looking at masks as a potential spiritual issue, my take on it is this: 

As far as I understand it, taking the Mark of the Beast has to be voluntary. I'm not going to waste my time bickering with John Shopkeeper about mask mandates, and I'm not going to behave in ways that put undue strain on his resources in my protest against government overreach - knowing full well that means burning a bridge with an actual neighbor. I'm talking about the grocery store I walk to five times a week from my house. Business owners and employees I know by name and see all the time. People who live in houses that are close to mine and are impacted by all of the same things I am.

Allowing my fear of something that seems to be looming on the horizon (Mark of the Beast) to affect my behavior toward my neighbors, in a way that fosters contention over matters of relatively trivial material significance - that's exactly the kind of reflexive, misdirected tactical error Satan would want me to make.

"Fear" has often been over-used by the anti-maskers. That's not the right word, but more so...preparedness is. I live in a state that's gotten bombarded by hurricanes...are  " we living in fear" if we board up our windows in order to keep debris from flying into the house?

Are we "living in fear" should we keep a hurricane kit on hand?  Are we "living in fear" should we buckle or safety belts? 

I could go on forever....answer is easy...of course not.

[amaysngrace]

4 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

Not one single person in my life sees this situation the way I do.

Join the club.  I’m even outnumbered in my own home although the dogs probably would agree with me 

 

[major_merrick]

8 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

If discussion isn't desired, perhaps a discussion forum isn't the place to post?

Indeed.  But I think this thread was started more as a criticism than a discussion. 

5 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

As far as I understand it, taking the Mark of the Beast has to be voluntary. I'm not going to waste my time bickering with John Shopkeeper about mask mandates, and I'm not going to behave in ways that put undue strain on his resources in my protest against government overreach - knowing full well that means burning a bridge with an actual neighbor. I'm talking about the grocery store I walk to five times a week from my house. Business owners and employees I know by name and see all the time. People who live in houses that are close to mine and are impacted by all of the same things I am.

I definitely understand your perspective, Kitty.  Sounds like you do most of your business close to home, the way I do.  Except that in my area, the majority of people are anti-maskers as COVID simply hasn't come into our county.  The only way COVID has affected us is by the craziness of others who don't live here.  So when I go elsewhere, I'll continue to do as I please.  It works for me, and it'll work for everybody else if they just leave me alone. 

I should start a Mark of the Beast thread in the Religion subforum...it seems a relevant topic for these days, as I suspect it will be brought upon us by the medical establishment.  A mark "without which no man may buy or sell" sounds about as voluntary as these mandatory masks, without which nobody may buy or sell.  First they get you to wear the masks.   Then they convince you to take the vaccines.  Then comes the mark, which I believe will be an implanted chip that bears your medical and financial information.  Incrementally the government will get people used to it, then force them to choose between their beliefs and essential things like groceries and employment.  That's where it is heading. 

Resisting the small stuff seems crazy to others.  "Oh it is just so easy" and all that.  But resisting it gives you practice for resisting the bigger stuff when it comes.  If it is tough or unpleasant to resist now when there's just social scorn and confrontation, how do you think it will be when the government says "Take the chip or you won't have a job" or won't let you buy food?  Because whether it happens in 5 years or 500 years, it is coming. 

2 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

"Fear" has often been over-used by the anti-maskers. That's not the right word, but more so...preparedness is.

I wouldn't say "fear" is the right word either.  More like "delusion."  Or perhaps "excessive zeal." 

Edited July 18, 2020 by major_merrick

[IndigoNight]

On 7/16/2020 at 7:17 AM, clia said:

No.  2017-2018.  Google it.  From one article:

 

My state had no available  hospital  beds for weeks at a time during that time period.

[NuevoYorko]

On 7/16/2020 at 5:36 PM, Weezy1973 said:

Yup, and do you agree that having people follow a certain behavior is for the greater good. Ex. Not drinking and driving. 
 

Just seeing if you agree that certain incentives to behave in certain ways are beneficial to society as a whole.

I think the big disconnect here is that in our relentless pursuit of capitalism and what we think of as "FREEDOM" (usually applies to white people, guns,  specifically Christian religious sects and "free speech"), we have generally come to a point where "the greater good" and "society as a whole" are considered by many to be filthy concepts.  

[NuevoYorko]

13 hours ago, enigma32 said:

If you don't like people saying you are living in fear when you wear a mask, just remember that the next time we have a discussion on people carrying a firearm. I agree, preparedness is not the same as living in fear. 

A mask on the face of even the most sketchy citizen does not pose any threat to me or any other people.  Try something more "apples to apples."