The argument of citing less deaths keep popping up

[Ellener]

Hope your brother is okay @Piddy

[Piddy]

Just now, Ellener said:

Hope your brother is okay @Piddy

Thanks Ellener.  He has no symptoms, so he doubts he has it.  

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, lana-banana said:

None of this was inevitable. None of this had to happen. You can look at Germany, South Korea and New Zealand as leading the way in what a competent government should do. Those countries are getting back to normal, while US citizens are barred from travel to civilized parts of the world. We could have chosen to lead the way and protect our people, but instead we said "eh, too hard" and gave up, and decided to accept more than 130,000 deaths as the "price of freedom" or whatever. What an embarrassment of a country.

This is it. Other countries are getting back to business, daily life is returning to normal with protections in place, and people are traveling and enjoying the summer while Americans are still debating public health measures, partisan politics, and any number of other things like whether the declining death rate means the US is turning a corner on this disease. It doesn’t matter, you have already lost the battle. The public response by many Americans, in many states, has been an embarrassment. It so sad, because it didn’t need to be this way...

Edited July 5, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Ellener said:

As the Fourth of July holiday approached, Methodist spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on a public information campaign — including full-page ads wrapped around a local newspaper, social media efforts and billboards. “Stay Safe and Stay Home This July 4th,” the signs say. Methodist also sent a text message to about 10,000 patients providing safety tips. In response, the hospital system received some angry phone calls and texts. “How about you stay at home and quit telling me what to do,” was how one hospital official described them.

What does it say when the hospital has to take out a newspaper ad asking people to please follow basic public health recommendations put in place to prevent the loss of life. And to receive this kind of response... It’s so disturbing. 

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

What does it say when the hospital has to take out a newspaper ad asking people to please follow basic public health recommendations put in place to prevent the loss of life. And to receive this kind of response... It’s so disturbing. 

It's typical Texas at times. I'm used to it now but it bothered me a lot at first, until I saw how people help each other in a crisis and how successful Houston is. It's way better now it's multi-cultured and tolerant so it's rare I run up against the things which used to upset me. Did I argue with a lot of people in my first couple of years in the suburbs, some of them moved away racist after people moved here when New Orleans flooded! but the place is way better without bigotry.

The refusing to take the pandemic seriously is because of the lower death rate though, New York took the brunt of that for us, by the time people were getting sick here they'd figured it all out the logistics. The hospitals are still saying it takes weeks to get equipment here though, that surprised me, I thought manufacturing had been bumped up.

We are very short-term thinkers in the US aren't we? Good for the sprint but a marathon defeats us!

[basil67]

7 hours ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I saw an article that stated that we are doing 6 times the amount of testing now when compared to back in April....6 times....

Per capita, your testing is the same level as ours.  Yet your infections are soaring and ours are negligible.     And people are dying....lots of them.

Edited July 5, 2020 by basil67

[basil67]

1 hour ago, enigma32 said:

People are going out of their way to make this a partisan issue when it is not. We just have too many people who really don't care about the restrictions. I have a friend on FB that had a huge family gathering on July 4th yesterday. All of them wearing masks on their chins. Hugging, sitting close, eating, and taking pictures together.

The irony of saying that it shouldn't be a partisan issue while in the same paragraph, pointing out the politics of someone who's COVID behaviour you disagree with 🤔

I think that the partisan issue is so ingrained that it slips in without being noticed 

Edited July 5, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[thefooloftheyear]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

Per capita, your testing is the same level as ours.  Yet your infections are soaring and ours are negligible.     And people are dying....lots of them.

You're trying to make an argument for an island nation(which in and of itself makes it far easier to contain this), and who's population is FAR more spread and I think 20 times smaller than the US...

Its really not a valid comparison...

Also...let me be clear here....The media is only reporting those events that fit the narrative...The crazy lady in the Walmart refusing to wear a mask, etc...I can tell you as someone that hasn't spent 5 minutes on lockdown and done everything that has been instructed, from what I have seen, from day 1, is people doing what they have been told to do...Shops not allowing entry without masks, people wearing masks,(almost to a fault-I saw some idiot changing a flat tire on the side of a busy highway  with cars and trucks zooming past with a mask on) and people just complying with the mandates...It's not a free for all by any means, not around here anyway...People are keeping distance and limiting frivolous travel...Even to the point of not seeing their own families..

About the only thing that appears to have grossly flouted the rules, since all this started,  are the protests and riots....Start with them before attacking anyone else...

 

TFY

Edited July 6, 2020 by thefooloftheyear

[QuietRiot]

7 hours ago, nittygritty said:

I read that 80 percent of those that test positive are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms. Perhaps some of those are even false positives but either way it no longer seems that dire of a situation because fewer are dying from it. And yes that matters to me.

Okay, let's remove the whole dying metric out of it. Let's say you get it, and wind up suffering on a ventilator. Or just in total agony at home, suffering through the pain or whatever. Pick your poison I guess? Death or a month long of agony wondering of the agony will wind up worse??

Edited July 6, 2020 by QuietRiot

[nittygritty]

34 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Okay, let's remove the whole dying metric out of it. Let's say you get it, and wind up suffering on a ventilator. Or just in total agony at home, suffering through the pain or whatever. Pick your poison I guess? Death or a month long of agony wondering of the agony will wind up worse??

I could get in a car wreck tomorrow and die or be paralyzed for the rest of my life. Or many, many other risks people take everyday by simply choosing to live and enjoy their life the best way they can. Life is short and you only get one. 
 

[elaine567]

8 hours ago, nittygritty said:

Life is short and you only get one

And that is kind of the point...

[Art_Critic]

On 7/5/2020 at 12:32 PM, Philosopher said:

Could the reporting of deaths be lower than normal due to Independence Day?

Today, 18 states zero deaths

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Today also 24 states with less than 10 deaths, single digits, so that is 42 states with either zero or single digit deaths.

 

[Art_Critic]

The CDC uses the death rate too and is citing such a less death rate that is is on the threshold to no longer being an epidemic, however they do say the count should go higher as more death certificates are processed.. but it should show us that the death toll does matter.

 

Key Updates for Week 26, ending June 27, 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

Quote

Nationally, levels of influenza-like illness (ILI) and COVID-19-like illness (CLI) activity remain lower than peaks seen in March and April but are increasing in most regions. The percentage of specimens testing positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, also increased from last week.  Mortality attributed to COVID-19 decreased compared to last week and is currently at the epidemic threshold but will likely increase as additional death certificates are processed.

 

 

[schlumpy]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:11 PM, thefooloftheyear said:

Also...let me be clear here....The media is only reporting those events that fit the narrative...

Yes, they are. They report the highest fear inducing number which is Covid cases. That's a good metric to understand what the virus is doing within the population but does little to allow an individual to assess their risk. The media has done a very poor job educating the populace on personal risk. They have done a very good job hyping fear which is the narrative they have chosen.

[elaine567]

5 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

The media has done a very poor job educating the populace on personal risk.

Seems to me many people are relying on guidance and rules and are getting confused, whereas it is pretty simple if you concentrate on the virus...
Viruses love people, they love people interacting with other people as that is how they spread and multiply.
If you want to avoid the virus. Stay away from other people, and stuff other people have touched. Simple.
Govts and authorities and big and small businesses want us all out on the streets "consuming", hence the continual tinkering with the rules and easing up, but the virus doesn't change, it will take every opportunity offered...
 

[schlumpy]

6 hours ago, elaine567 said:

If you want to avoid the virus. Stay away from other people, and stuff other people have touched. Simple.
 

If my isolation is increased by just a few more degrees, I may as well join a monastery. Would it count if I nailed the front door shut?🙂

[lana-banana]

Novel coronavirus cases in Texas soared past 205,000 on Tuesday, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.

Hospitals in at least five regions across the state have reported less than 10 intensive care unit (ICU) beds as being available, according to the latest report Monday from the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS).

...

As of Tuesday morning, 43 hospital intensive care units (ICU) in 21 Florida counties have hit capacity and show zero beds available, while another 32 hospitals show ICU bed availability of 10% or less, according to the Agency for Health Care Administration (AHCA).

...

 

The number of intensive care unit beds has reached a critical low in Arizona, and at times, some hospitals are running out. The coronavirus pandemic is forcing hospitals to make tough decisions on how to care for the sickest patients...Hospital administrators have not been willing to share numbers on their ICU bed availability, but data maintained by the Arizona Department of Health Services shows ICU bed usage at 89%.

I totally don't understand why people seem to think that this is a victory. A situation that leads to thousands of people being hospitalized and spending months disabled/unable to work is not a good outcome, folks!

[Art_Critic]

42 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

Hospitals in at least five regions across the state have reported less than 10 intensive care unit (ICU) beds as being available, according to the latest report Monday from the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS)

How many of those ICU beds being used are covid-19 related ?

 

[Kitty Tantrum]

I've seen a lot of folks citing things like overwhelmed hospitals and full ICUs, huge surges in business from some folks in the "death industry," etc...

But these are all narrow samples. And the things is - the thing that people seem to forget when they're "asked to design 500% more headstones than usual" all of a sudden or somesuch similar thing - is that DISTRIBUTIONS have been screwed up across the board because of the way "COVID-19" and all things relating to it are being handled.

A hospital which actually accepts "COVID patients" will be full of COVID patients  - because they're not putting them anywhere else. It's not like that at other hospitals. Many are more or less empty. And if you're looking at the NEWS to see which hospitals are overwhelmed instead of seeing it with your own eyes - they've already been caught straight-up LYING about that, staging crowds for cameras, etc.

If your headstone design business (one of the examples I've seen from someone I actually know) has a contract with one of the few places that is processing the deaths of COVID patients - yeah, OF COURSE you see a huge surge in business. Other such businesses that do not contract with the places processing COVID deaths will see no such increase.

They're not "spreading out" COVID patients, anywhere. Period.

For that matter, you could see a similar increase in burden on one business in an industry simply because... other businesses are closed due to COVID-related lockdowns and restrictions.

None of these things which people easily PERCEIVE as happening everywhere at similar rates, are actually happening that way.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Kitty Tantrum

[Angelle]

The doctors who are begging people to be careful, in articles, and on social media - they don't count? The nurses who take the time to comment after a long shift, do they not count either?

[Kitty Tantrum]

@Angelle

Well, if you mean the REAL ones (not the ones who have already been exposed as phonies looking for attention; disgustingly common among today's narcissistic social media addicts)...

If I'm being GENEROUS*, they "count" about as much as the nurses and doctors who question whether this virus is actually responsible for nearly as many illnesses and deaths as have been attributed to it. And there's a whole mountain of good reasons to question the narrative.

There is NO actual consensus on this. To pretend there is requires one to ignore roughly half of all presented data and interpretations.

(*I say "generous" because a lot of these doctors and nurses you're talking about are not actually presenting any evidence for their position, but rather making emotional appeals to fear or authority.)

 

[thefooloftheyear]

I saw a commercial this evening that was run by nurses and doctors practically begging people to come in for care...Never seen that in my lifetime...They must be bleeding red ink and really need to get people off their asses...I guess the hypochondriacs are now too afraid to bother coming in...I dunno...If nothing else, maybe this covid will reveal how much people use/abuse the system unnecessarily....

TFY

[Kitty Tantrum]

Every doctor I've seen recently has been THRILLED to see a "real person." Every time. And there's been quite a few, not just my regular doctor but the rotating PT/OT staff - plus every assistant, tech, etc.

Of course they require everyone to mask up, and do a temp check when you get there, and the seats are spaced out - but they're taking these measure because they are REQUIRED under threat of severe penalty. They are not worried about COVID-19. They joke about it. They roll their eyes about it.

There ARE people, even doctors and nurses, who are legitimately scared. And there are those who are legitimately overworked because they're in the (fortunate? unfortunate??) position of being one of the ones who works in a hospital that has taken on a lion's share of the current overall patient load -- rather than being one of the ones who got laid off, furloughed, hours cut, etc.

But the bulk of the folks I know in the healthcare industry seem to be right about where I am in my assessment (partly because I take my cues from them, given that they are the professionals in charge of MY health care at present). They understand that "confirmed cases" or "asymptomatic cases" actually mean VERY LITTLE, and they understand from watching how actual INFECTIONS (that is, an actual disease, the presence of symptoms), HOSPITALIZATIONS, and DEATHS are trending - that this virus is not very dangerous at all for the average person who is healthy and is not elderly.

And they know how to protect their elderly and infirm from contagions because they've been doing it throughout their careers (without the need for mass-masking and distancing requirements).

[QuietRiot]

8 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

Every doctor I've seen recently has been THRILLED to see a "real person." Every time. And there's been quite a few, not just my regular doctor but the rotating PT/OT staff - plus every assistant, tech, etc.

Of course they require everyone to mask up, and do a temp check when you get there, and the seats are spaced out - but they're taking these measure because they are REQUIRED under threat of severe penalty. They are not worried about COVID-19. They joke about it. They roll their eyes about it.

There ARE people, even doctors and nurses, who are legitimately scared. And there are those who are legitimately overworked because they're in the (fortunate? unfortunate??) position of being one of the ones who works in a hospital that has taken on a lion's share of the current overall patient load -- rather than being one of the ones who got laid off, furloughed, hours cut, etc.

But the bulk of the folks I know in the healthcare industry seem to be right about where I am in my assessment (partly because I take my cues from them, given that they are the professionals in charge of MY health care at present). They understand that "confirmed cases" or "asymptomatic cases" actually mean VERY LITTLE, and they understand from watching how actual INFECTIONS (that is, an actual disease, the presence of symptoms), HOSPITALIZATIONS, and DEATHS are trending - that this virus is not very dangerous at all for the average person who is healthy and is not elderly.

And they know how to protect their elderly and infirm from contagions because they've been doing it throughout their careers (without the need for mass-masking and distancing requirements).

Actually, it's proven to be deadly to even healthy people. That 41 year old Broadway actor has suffered and died from it. There are cases such at this when healthy people have died or came near to death from it.

Also, that is also not the point. The healthy can spread it to the older demographic (grandparents). During the holiday weekends, tons of family get together in homes were happening and of course, this puts grandma and grandma at risk. Of course, not wearing masks.

Listen dude, we can argue about this until we're blue in the face, but there is no one else in this thread that is on board with your anecdotal stuff.  

Oh, and by the way...the deaths are just lagging, people will start dying off in a few weeks after exposure and the death rate WILL rise via these holiday gatherings of idiots. 

Also, when the virus comes and goes (recovers) , it can cause other LONG TERM medical issues.

Also, I'd find another doctor, if they are scoffing at it.

Edited July 8, 2020 by QuietRiot

[elaine567]

8 hours ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I dunno...If nothing else, maybe this covid will reveal how much people use/abuse the system unnecessarily....

Yes there are some who abuse the system and I also think the system needed shaken up as it was highly inefficient, but I believe the health of many will be severely affected by this hiatus in medical services.